Making Lance legitimate - no win but a place or show
Anton Berlin
never win but take a few hundred via 2nd or 3rd place. No one even
knows I win at all.
Lance may have a similar strategy, if he just places last year and
'shows' this year he appears less 'dope flooded super fiend' and more
'super human' aka Brett Favre trying to get one last lick in.
And in the five minute memory of most Amerikans and interwebs users
'what have you done for me lately' is what will be remembered and
solidify opinion and perception as a 'natural' where insiders and
those in the know, can be certain it was anything but.
The saddest thing is, and Lance may be honest enough to be realizing
this himself, he will always have to wonder and question 'could I have
done this on my own? clean? honest? true?
And that question haunts him regardless of the isolation his 'success'
has brought him. No villa, no yacht, no fence is high enough to keep
a mirror from looking back at each of us and knowing the truth.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
There won't be a place or a show. Probably not even top 10.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Anton Berlin
Anton Berlin
blood boosting bags on the way, just a good athlete that has his good
days and bad days. I don't see that 1 year of age should make such a
difference in any rider. (assuming all else being equal)
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
I don't think it's age. Something's the matter with him. Not dope/
notdope either - Leipheimer rode about as expected.
Anton Berlin
not a sick boy - it's the real Lance.
B. Lafferty
He does look more like the pre-ballectomy TdF Armstrong. I agree that
one year should not make that much of a difference--but there's still a
lot of racing left.
I was un-Lance like to see the first two crashes where he wasn't in his
usual peloton place near the front.
RicodJour
> I disagree - boosting would 'smooth' out the ups and downs. This is
> not a sick boy - it's the real Lance.
Smooth out the ups and downs of crashing? WTF are you talking about?
Is there some new EPO SPF 50 marketed by Fuentes? Maybe some
epithelial boosting exoskeleton? Sheesh.
R
B. Lafferty
> I disagree - boosting would 'smooth' out the ups and downs. This is
> not a sick boy - it's the real Lance.
Uncle Dave
> I play a regular round of poker with some friends and my policy is to
> never win but take a few hundred via 2nd or 3rd place. No one even
> knows I win at all.
>
> Lance may have a similar strategy, if he just places last year and
> 'shows' this year he appears less 'dope flooded super fiend' and more
> 'super human' aka Brett Favre trying to get one last lick in.
Favre still had it. Armstrong didn't.
UD
Fred Gringioni
"Anton Berlin" <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90d242c2-d6a9-42b0...@c33g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
:I disagree - boosting would 'smooth' out the ups and downs. This is
: not a sick boy - it's the real Lance.
Dumbass -
This is the same guy who got 4th in the prologue.
He had a biomechanical. It's not age. If it was age, there wouldn't have
been that prologue performance.
RicodJour
Please provide the equation you use to assume that improvements/
accomplishments progress in a linear manner. Starting with your
flatline EEG would be logical. It would also help if you'd use
equally indeterminate data to support your position on your belief in
God, the infallibility of the Pope, and why chess should be an Olympic
sport.
R
Fred Gringioni
"B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:lMadnVnv9pTmbKTR...@giganews.com...
Dumbass -
In an interview last month, LANCE talked about how he was reluctant to take
risks on the wet descents. He said it was pathetic.
He just doesn't have it anymore. That killer instinct. Time to quit.
Brad Anders
Agree, it looked like a cumulative effect of the extra effort of the
past week, two crashes, and age. He looked pretty good in TdS, but all
those years of good luck in the TdF have caught up with him. When he
had that small second fall, the way he just stood there felt like he'd
given in. I'm looking for him to work to support Leipheimer and
perhaps grab an opportunistic stage win.
Brad Anders
--D-y
wrote:
His Prologue roads were drying, not dry, from what little we saw on
Versus.
Other comments pending watching the actual coverage of today's stage.
After soccer, which is coming right up here.
(Football) (Go Holland!)
I'm not sure the fat lady has finished singing yet.
--D-y
Brad Anders
wrote:
It's easier to have killer instinct when you have killer legs. All
champions have their day, his is past. Don't forget how he responded
when he was put down by the famous "bag incident", he jumped back up
like the Energizer Bunny and won the stage. That guy isn't in the race
today.
I'm much more interested in what he will do now that he's clearly out
of GC contention. You remember LemonD getting killed the day Hampsten
won on L'Alpe? IIRC, he quit soon after. I'm hoping Lance grits his
teeth and stick it out in support of Leipheimer.
Brad Anders
S Perryman
> On Jul 11, 8:42 am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>I don't think it's age. Something's the matter with him. Not dope/
>>notdope either - Leipheimer rode about as expected.
> Agree, it looked like a cumulative effect of the extra effort of the
> past week, two crashes, and age. He looked pretty good in TdS, but all
> those years of good luck in the TdF have caught up with him.
To be fair, there does seem to be an element of "make your own luck"
with the TdF winners. But when the luck runs out, the collapse is often
spectacular.
Indurain is another good recent example.
I think of fate dealing Rominger an unlucky hand in 1993 and 1994 when
he was ready for the fight. Indurain escaped the stomach bug in 1994
in the peloton that got Rominger et al.
But when the luck runs out : see the 1996 TdF.
> When he
> had that small second fall, the way he just stood there felt like he'd
> given in. I'm looking for him to work to support Leipheimer
Perhaps.
Has he the stature of Hinault, to try and do with Leipheimer what Hinault
did with Lemond to destroy the rivals in the 1986 TdF ??
Tell you what, I fancy Contador and Vino to be able to do something like
that. Especially after how Vino rode today.
> and perhaps grab an opportunistic stage win.
Indeed.
Regards,
Steven Perryman
K. Fred Gauss
This is all according to plan. He'll join an early break, stay away, put
12 minutes into Contador, and win the TdF. It's Lance's way of saying
"Fuck YOU!" to Landis.
How can you guys NOT get this?
B. Lafferty
K. Fred Gauss
Crap. I just read A. Myerson's Facebook status. He beat me with this
prediction by ~3 hours.
Betty
> This is the same guy who got 4th in the prologue.
>
> He had a biomechanical. It's not age. If it was age, there wouldn't have
> been that prologue performance.
Recovery not as good as it used to be, particularly after the effort on
the pave ?
Fred Gringioni
"--D-y" <dusto...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:bc64d3ab-e8bc-480b...@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> In an interview last month, LANCE talked about how he was reluctant to
> take
> risks on the wet descents. He said it was pathetic.
>
> He just doesn't have it anymore. That killer instinct. Time to quit.
:: His Prologue roads were drying, not dry, from what little we saw on
:: Versus.
Dumbass -
Contador had the same roads, he went 2 riders after LANCE.
LANCE doesn't have it anymore upstairs. It's not that surprising, it happens
to everyone. Even Eddy Merckx.
Brad Anders
> I was un-Lance like to see the first two crashes where he wasn't in his
> usual peloton place near the front.
FYI, in Horner's interview on Versus.com, he said that when the
traffic circle crash happened at the bottom of the penultimate climb,
Lance was in the top 10.
Brad Anders
Anton Berlin
wrote:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
C'mon Henry - anyone can go fast for a few miles. Even my fat ass can
beat 'trained cyclists' for a few miles.
Anton Berlin
wrote:
It wasn't raining today. Are you becoming a lance defender again?
Just because B Laff is back? Even worse.
Anton Berlin
Luck doesn't know if you won the lottery last week. We all know you
make your own 'luck' in bike racing by working in the front,
Anton Berlin
He can't quit, the 'show' is about being human and infallible this
time but also being the fighter.
K. Fred Gauss
Henry says that Lance's problems are at least partially mental and you
think that makes him a lance defender?
Then allow me to defend you by saying that you are the biggest fucking
ass-wipe moron in the history of the human race.
No need to thank me, it was my pleasure.
Anton Berlin
Gauss: You're a delusional fag and an idiot cunt to boot. My reply
was to Kurgan. I don't normally bother with fuckwits like you.
Betty
> FYI, in Horner's interview on Versus.com, he said that when the
> traffic circle crash happened at the bottom of the penultimate climb,
> Lance was in the top 10.
As was Evans when that Footon idiot took everybody out early on.
--D-y
wrote:
> "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bc64d3ab-e8bc-480b...@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In an interview last month, LANCE talked about how he was reluctant to
> > take
> > risks on the wet descents. He said it was pathetic.
>
> > He just doesn't have it anymore. That killer instinct. Time to quit.
>
> :: His Prologue roads were drying, not dry, from what little we saw on
> :: Versus.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Contador had the same roads, he went 2 riders after LANCE.
And went 5 seconds slower on rapidly drying roads, including at least
two more follow cars squeegie-ing water off the course.
> LANCE doesn't have it anymore upstairs. It's not that surprising, it happens
> to everyone. Even Eddy Merckx.
No, he's not 29 anymore.
Having been through this myself, "eyesight". Mine started going fuzzy
@ age 43 or so. Maybe Lance is a little early?
--D-y
Zeno
Brad --
Please don't introduce info like the fact that LA crashed three times
(and was in fact near the front when he had the worst one) , was
already banged up & had to play catch up on a hot day as an
explanation of why he performed poorly on the stage. The actual
physical trauma his body was subjected to is beside the point in
troll threads like this. Do you actually think Anton cares about
reality?
Brad, please get in the spirit of this thread with something like,
"Can you believe how that soon-to-be-indicted-blood-doper Horner tried
to cover up for his pusher, LA, by saying that crashing three times in
a stage effected his performance!!!"
Zeno
Carl Sundquist
Crashed three times? I only saw one. The other two times he was slowed
to a stop and had to dismount.
The bad luck thing, while true, appears to be relative. I'd rather
have Armstrong's bad luck than VandeVelde's.
His status as patron of the peloton has seems to have diminished to
the point where he is just another competitor (and that there is not
one, single patron, but several right now). Of course he is given
deference for what he has achieved, but he lacks the ability to
physically dominate a race as in the past and the intimidation that
goes along with that. As such, he isn’t given the extra wide berth
that he was used to before. He is now prone to the same perils of the
peloton as everyone else. RBR used to poke fun at Tyler Hamilton and
others for being extremely crash prone. I think some of that is a
byproduct of having to fight in the trenches that Armsrtong is not
used to dealing with, probably going all the way back to the 1994
season after winning the world championship.
Think of it this way – Junior Nationals were held over the past three
weeks. Some of the kids in the 17-18 age bracket weren’t even born yet
when Lance won the Worlds in Norway.
That said, I’m tired of hearing the age card being played for him.
Nobody is playing it for Jens Voigt or Mario Aerts, and nobody played
it for Ekimov.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> That said, I’m tired of hearing the age card being played for him.
> Nobody is playing it for Jens Voigt or Mario Aerts, and nobody played
> it for Ekimov.
Dumbass -
Voigt and Aerts and Ekimov weren't trying to win the Tour. IMO, being
38 is a pretty big handicap if you're trying to win the Tour. 38 year
olds don't recover as well.
Zeno
You are right. Idiots never crash in front of a true Patron,
Roundabouts magically straighten before them. If a moto crashes in the
road, the oil spill knows it must evaporate before the Patron
arrives. And when they do crash, their injuries heal within seconds
and they are never debilitating. (There are statues of them at
Lourdes.)
LA is no longer "The Most Interesting Man in the World." He is a
mere mortal. Who woulda thunk it?
Zeno
Anton Berlin
Henry - you're being obtuse - Lance could recover like a 37 year old
(last year) if he just had his T patch and blood bag delivered on
schedule. The difference isn't a 37 v 38. It's doped v undoped.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
Why the fuck would he show up to the Tour undoped? It'd be better to
just retire.
Anton Berlin
> LA is no longer "The Most Interesting Man in the World."
Lance never was interesting - just a lonely abandoned boy with a crush
on his mother, a willingness to do anything to find self worth and
really a sad and pathetic human.
I think we should take up a collection for him, but how does one
donate dignity?
Carl Sundquist
I never said patrons don't crash. Look at Hinault in '85 for example.
But a wise man as yourself can surely come up with a more satisfactory
explanation than something that requires minimal thought such as bad
luck. People used to fawn and expound over his meticulous preparation.
It's unlikely that has changed. It's doubtful that the collarbone last
year, illnesses in the early season, the crash in TOC and all the
problems in this year's Tour can all be attributed to sheer bad luck.
This is the guy who exemplified "Chance favors the prepared mind".
Carl Sundquist
That last bit of information was known before yesterday.
Anton Berlin
Dog and pony show.
It's in every real estate persons MO - show them the house they want
(easy enough to find in MLS) then show them the dog and an overpriced
pony. They will make an offer in a NY minute.
This is the smoke and mirrors tour for Lance - without Floyd's outing
- he might have doped like always but now he has to save face and
follow through.
Zeno
Chance favors the prepared mind but it is nobody's bitch.
Zeno
Anton Berlin
Tyler etc) then you can safely ride in the front.
thirty-six
I think there's been an accountant involved. He cant win even if
doped, but he can lose BIG time if caught doping up. His extremely
poor showing this year will give him the excuse to turn hermit should
investigations show him up. Sliding to the back and getting away
from publicity might be the best thing for him.
Carl Sundquist
WDW III,
It's not that idiots never crash in front of a patron, but nobody
wants to be known as the idiot who crashed a patron. That's why he had
a little extra space before. If an idiot crashes Markus Eibegger, it
doesn't get reported and virtually no one cares. Not so if you crash a
patron.
William Fred
news:9457b185-74e9-49b5...@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
> It's not that idiots never crash in front of a patron, but nobody
> wants to be known as the idiot who crashed a patron. That's why he had
> a little extra space before. If an idiot crashes Markus Eibegger, it
> doesn't get reported and virtually no one cares. Not so if you crash a
> patron.
>
I also think part of Armstrong's success was that there weren't really
any strong challengers. Ullrich spent the off-season partying, and
looking the only other guy who was runner-up that went on to have success
was Basso, and he raced against him only the last two years. Zulle had
some success, but that was his last tour and he never really did anything
after 1999. Kloden is decent, but not in the same caliber even as Evans.
So, even if Armstrong were 30 racing against the current batch of top
guys (Schleck, Contador), I think it's likely he would have "bad luck"
since he would be working harder.
And I've always felt they played "statball" with Armstrong in 2003, like
with diMaggio in the middle of his 56-game hitting streak where in the
late innings of a close game with 1st base open, the opposing team
pitched to diMaggio rather than walk him. Baseball strategy would
dictate you walk diMaggio, but since he didn't have a hit that game tha
would mean hitting streak over. So they pitched to him, and he got a
hit. In the same way, Armstrong goes down, Ullrich should have gone, but
he played statball and waited.
That sort of goes along with your "the patron gets special privileges,
which makes it easier" idea, which I agree with. Even a younger
Armstrong would find it difficult to do what he did against this crop of
contenders. Whatever the rap is against Contador (which I don't
understand, he seems no less arrogant than a young Armstrong to me), he
doesn't party to the point of having no fitness in the off-season, and
neither does Schleck.
It's not nice when reality opens up a can of whoop-ass on a dreamer, but
it happens.
http://www.despair.com/delusions.html
--
Bill Fred
Frederick the Great
<757cdc76-173f-4c8f...@x24g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If your doped well enough and surrounded by well enough dopes (Landis,
> Tyler etc) then you can safely ride in the front.
Stay on message.
--
Old Fritz
Kurgan Gringioni
"Carl Sundquist" <carl.su...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6462aa25-3d9f-439b...@r27g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Dumbass -
True, but you wrote that the age card wasn't being played for Voigt, Aerts
and Ekimov. The reason is those guys weren't trying to win the Tour.
If Ekimov were trying to win the Tour at the end of his career, that age
card would've gotten played. The journalists would say, "WTF is this old man
doing trying to win the Tour?!" and they'd have a point.
thanks,
Kurgan.presented by Gringioni.
Kurgan Gringioni
:: This is the guy who exemplified "Chance favors the prepared mind".
Dumbass -
It's not just bad luck. He doesn't have that killer instinct anymore.
For instance, the old LANCE would've been in the front group on stage 3. The
old LANCE went around Joseba Beloki when he crashed and broke his hip, the
old LANCE going through the field on that wild ride and getting back onto
the road, skipping the hairpin.
The new LANCE clips a pedal going around a roundabout, rolls his tire and
the effort required to get back up there explodes him. The old LANCE gets
crashed by a spectator on a climb and the old LANCE catches back up to
Ullrich and drops him.
The old LANCE was the first rider into the Passage du Gois. The new LANCE is
afraid on slippery descents.
There's no comparison. Dude needs to retire.
Betty
>
> The new LANCE clips a pedal going around a roundabout, rolls his tire and
> the effort required to get back up there explodes him. The old LANCE gets
> crashed by a spectator on a climb and the old LANCE catches back up to
> Ullrich and drops him.
His adrenaline gland is working as well as it used to.
--D-y
wrote:
> "Carl Sundquist" <carl.sundqu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The time off introduced a new perspective on "life".
Plus, diminishing ocular acuity (a big one, there, IMHO).
He did great in the Prologue (on wet roads), rode well in the race
until he crashed. Made the big effort to catch. Did catch, when IMHO
he figured out he was hurt. Rode in hurt in anticipation of the rest
day and the remaining bulk of the TdF.
Rejoined race this a.m. speaking of winning stages, not just him but
the "whole team" (not "retirement", "loafing in to Paris", etc. etc.)
IOW, looks like retirement is close but not a done deal as of this
moment.
Oh yeah: he's not in jail yet, either. <g>
--D-y
Anton Berlin
> His adrenaline gland is working as well as it used to.
How can you be sure? It might have shut down from all the blood
fucking he's done over the years.
thirty-six
That would certainly add up. I wonder what the breakfast cereal is
called that comes "fortified with vitamins and iron + special wake up
hormone kicker(shh, you dont have to tell)"?
Frederick the Great
<90b3d2bd-2285-49a0...@q21g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Anton Berlin <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote:
It would be funny if you flame out and LANCE motors on.
Putting "truth" in your handle is a warning sign.
Heed it.
--
Old Fritz
Dumbass
> On Jul 11, 11:47 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I disagree - boosting would 'smooth' out the ups and downs. This is
> > not a sick boy - it's the real Lance.
>
> Smooth out the ups and downs of crashing? WTF are you talking about?
> Is there some new EPO SPF 50 marketed by Fuentes? Maybe some
> epithelial boosting exoskeleton? Sheesh.
>
> R
He was smokin' NoWreck before they developed the urine test.