Federal Prosecutor Assigned to Floyd Case
DA74
Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
You're Welcome,
DA74
Henry
> Things are heating up in a big way. The Justice Department assigned
> Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
> allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
> warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
> a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
> owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
>
>
> You're Welcome,
> DA74
then it will take them x months and x $ of tax money to realise landis
is a lying drug cheat.
Bring it on. Be nice to see some proper evidence, or at least some
lawyers getting that new Porsche.
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Whatever Landis may be, and it's likely to include
"self-destructive fool," discounting him as a "drug cheat"
is making yourself comfortable by the Peewee Herman
method - "LALALALA I am not listening." There's no
evidence that riders who dope are any worse human
beings or any less reliable than riders who don't. Floyd
may be unreliable, may be playing favorites in who he
accuses, and is totally unsympathetic at this point, but
he might be lying very little.
I think this federal investigation is a lame idea that will
ultimately end up buttering some investigator's bread
and probably securing either a plea deal or a conviction
for some unlucky spear-carriers - team staff, obscure
riders, maybe even some poor schmuck who was
USPS/Tailwind's bookkeeper - people who get caught up
in it and don't have enough lawyer-power to avoid
saying something to investigators that they can be
prosecuted for later. If this happens, I won't be celebrating
anti-doping victories. Honestly I think something will
probably come out that embarrasses the LANCE, but
he isn't likely to wind up breaking rocks for a living.
That is an rbr fantasy.
Fredmaster Ben
B. Lafferty
B. Lafferty
On second thought, it doesn't matter. They're all
lying--Lalalalalalalalalala................................
cur...@the-md-russells.org
Here is probably the most pertinent comment:
For leaking the documents, Ellerman was given a 30-month prison
sentence - the longest term in the BALCO saga - and served 16 months
behind bars before his release in January of 2009.
Other comments? Well, they got a long string of indictments. Not
convictions, indictments, which come from a process that is pretty
much controlled by the prosecutor side. Once they got in court, they
either evaporated or are kept in permanent limbo by better lawyers.
They aren't looking like the fearless forces of good and justice:
they're more like the Keystone Kops, just finding another vehicle to
fall off of.
If this is the best they could do with the hard evidence in Balco,
with the longest conviction coming from leaking grand jury documents,
then I'm guessing I may be well into my 70s and watching wheelchair
races before there is a tangible result from FL's testimony. At least
we know where all the leaks are coming from in this case from the
getgo.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
NoDannyNo
> Things are heating up in a big way. The Justice Department assigned
> Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
> allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
> warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
> a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
> owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
>
The United State Government
vs.
The Empire of Lance The Unimpeachable
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I know hoo I'm bettin' my unemployment check on. Lemme get this rite:
Yer Dept. of Justiss is gonna go to war with The Empire using Fraud
Landis and a buncha other has-been bootlicking sycophants as their
foot soldiers? The DoJ has the same chance of winning that as any
rbr clown does of taking 1st in da TdF prolouge. This is not Barry
Bonds or Marion Jones we're talking about here kiddies, this is The
Empire. Someone(s) in the court of the emperor may be offered up as
cannon-fodder but The Unimpeachable One himself will not be touched.
--D-y
> On 6/11/2010 12:14 AM, DA74 wrote:> Things are heating up in a big way. The Justice Department assigned
> > Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
> > allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
> > warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
> > a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
> > owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
>
>
> > You're Welcome,
> > DA74
>
> Time to pour a glass of Merlot, sit back and watch the show.
How many clowns can fit into that tiny little car?
--D-y
yirgster
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:14:50 -0700 (PDT), DA74
>
> >Things are heating up in a big way. The Justice Department assigned
> >Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
> >allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
> >warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
> >a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
> >owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
>
>
> >You're Welcome,
> >DA74
>
> Here is probably the most pertinent comment:
>
> For leaking the documents, Ellerman was given a 30-month prison
> sentence - the longest term in the BALCO saga - and served 16 months
> behind bars before his release in January of 2009.
>
> Other comments? Well, they got a long string of indictments. Not
> convictions, indictments, which come from a process that is pretty
> much controlled by the prosecutor side. Once they got in court, they
> either evaporated or are kept in permanent limbo by better lawyers.
>
> They aren't looking like the fearless forces of good and justice:
> they're more like the Keystone Kops, just finding another vehicle to
> fall off of.
>
> If this is the best they could do with the hard evidence in Balco,
> with the longest conviction coming from leaking grand jury documents,
> then I'm guessing I may be well into my 70s and watching wheelchair
> races before there is a tangible result from FL's testimony. At least
> we know where all the leaks are coming from in this case from the
> getgo.
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...
One of the issues with Balco, as I read about it, is that the athletes
who testified truthfully were granted immunity. So it was not possible
to go after them. Iirc one sprinter whom it was said (leaked?) had
confessed in his testimony as soon as he went outside immediately
proclaimed his innocence of any PED use.
I think Marion Jones testifed and lied and then was caught so she was
prosecuted. It was for similar reason they went after Bonds who, imo,
obviously lied. Note that Jones had sued Victor Conti, head of Balco,
for saying that she used PED's and they settled out of court even
though it was true. At least, that's what I've read.
If I'm wrong about this (that athletes were granted immunity if they
testified truthfully) or anything else above, please let me know,
although I'm pretty sure this request is unnecessary since it's bound
to occur if I got something wrong. But in any case, I'd like to know
what's what hopefully based on knowledge.
Ben Trovato
> Things are heating up in a big way. The Justice Department assigned
> Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
> allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
> warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
> a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
> owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
>
"According to several people familiar with the situation, the
government's investigation is still in its early stages. Landis has
met with Novitzky and spoken with the agent by telephone."
I'll bet these "several people" in fact number 2, the same 2 who
chatted anonymously to an NYT reporter a couple of weeks ago, whose
names bear the initials JN and BM.
Amit Ghosh
> Here is probably the most pertinent comment:
>
> For leaking the documents, Ellerman was given a 30-month prison
> sentence - the longest term in the BALCO saga - and served 16 months
> behind bars before his release in January of 2009.
>
dumbass,
you are right the most severe penalty was for the lawyer who leaked
the grand jury testimony, but the only other people who did time were
trainers, suppliers etc. not athletes.
but one outcome was that we were given evidence and admission of
doping by many athletes - ie. the public was given confirmation that
bonds used steroids.
in any case, they were only able to proceed because they found
evidence of crimes which would have been committed as a part of a
doping program (an actual syringe of THG, money laundering,
distributing steroids).
B. Lafferty
GoneBeforeMyTime
I saw a quote by Adam Myerson today while in another forum, perhaps it was
from his blog, but I got a kick out of it!
"So burn down Babylon. Burn pro cycling down. There will still be racing,
there will still be races. Burn it down, so we can build it up again new. I
condemn Landis' original decision to participate in a corrupt, immoral
system. But I'll stand in front of the flames with him and watch it burn."
Amit Ghosh
> DA74 wrote:
> > Things are heating up in a big way. The Justice Department assigned
> > Doug Miller to the case that has developed since Floyd made his
> > allegations. He will support Jeff Novitzky by obtaining search
> > warrants and securing cooperation agreements presumably to present to
> > a grand jury to bring indictments against cyclists and / or team
> > owners (i.e. Lance) involved in the doping underworld.
>
>
> > You're Welcome,
> > DA74
>
> I saw a quote by Adam Myerson today while in another forum, perhaps it was
> from his blog, but I got a kick out of it!
>
> "So burn down Babylon. Burn pro cycling down. There will still be racing,
> there will still be races. Burn it down, so we can build it up again new. I
> condemn Landis' original decision to participate in a corrupt, immoral
> system. But I'll stand in front of the flames with him and watch it burn."
dumbass,
...and start a new cycling where no one ever dreams of cheating. ?
you have to consider myerson's perspective.
he's standing outside the window with his face against the glass
watching the big party of euro pro cycling.
B. Lafferty
refused to go down the path of doping. Bravo to them. I agree that
human nature being what it is, it's rather idealistic to speak of
building it anew like Adam does. But Adam is an idealist as well as a
realist. He's allowed to dream.
K. Fred Gauss
That's insightful.
K. Fred Gauss
> but one outcome was that we were given evidence and admission of
> doping by many athletes - ie. the public was given confirmation that
> bonds used steroids.
I think most people who follow bicycle racing have strong suspicions
that the contenders (especially LANCE) are doping. That might not be
true for casual sports page readers in the US. At most, confirmation
that Lance, Levi, etc. doped would be an incremental change. Nothing
dramatic or earth shattering.
K. Fred Gauss
I like this, there's a lot to work with.
We already know that Lance is capable of changing the laws of physics
("The Science of Lance"), how do we work this "Unimpeachable" thing in?
It almost seems like overkill for a superhero to have two superpowers.
"Unimpeachable" might be bigger than "The Science of Lance". If Lance
catches an evildoer, say Floyd Landis, I imagine "Unimpeachable" would
work something like this:
Floyd: Why would I hold a press conference to announce I lied about
everything I said about you?
Lance: Because you want to.
F: No, I do not!
L: Yes, you do.
F: Oh, I guess you're right.
L: You should also claim responsibility for the BP oils spill and NBC's
late night programming changes.
F: What?
L: You did it.
F: Can't argue with that.
K. Fred Gauss
At least we can all agree that it's just a dream.
Fred Flintstein
When Barry Bonds was exposed there was no corresponding drop
in attendance at PacBell/SBC/CorporateCowOfTheDay Park in
San Francisco, aka "The House That Bonds Built".
People love athletes that dope. Especially the ones that don't
get caught. But they love the ones that do also.
Fred Flintstein
--D-y
Gratuitous. Was it something I said?
I don't mind.
And like they say, someone else is getting a break <g>.
--D-y
B. Lafferty
resist.
--D-y
wrote:
At the start of the Prologue in Luxembourg, 2001, the rider who got
the biggest round of applause as he was announced was...
(should I make you guess?)
Richard Virenque. After the trial and public confession and all-- I
mean, what a humiliation (well, there are some puritanical retards in
France, too, I guess).
Didn't take long to rebound, at least among the fans in attendance,
and, from what I have seen written, the (French) public at large.
Oh yeah, can you guess who got an only slightly less thunderous
greeting? Rhymes with France...
Virenque, a 10, Lance a 9+, didn't hear anything more than maybe a 7
for anyone else.
So much for the universality of LanceHate.
--D-y
GoneBeforeMyTime
Don't let you sons and daughters grow up to be Cowboys, I mean pro cyclists!
But in reality, Landis is not a cheater, just a liar. So he did win that
tour after all, since drug use is fair play across the board, but they broke
the rules. Odd sport this professional cycling.
derf...@gmail.com
> Time to pour a glass of Merlot, sit back and watch the show.
If anyone orders any Merlot I'm leaving. I'm not drinking any fucking
Merlot.
Barry Taylor
I've just ordered another half dozen
from Golden Grape Estate at Pobolkin in New South Wales
"Parliament of Owls" Cabernet Merlot 2009
a very nice drop with which
to warm the blood
during the cold nights
and chilly mornings
watching "Cuddles"
win the TDF
bjt
"derF...@gmail.com" <derf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6cc18a54-1c37-4d1c...@y4g2000yqy.googlegroups.com...
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Well played, sir.
Betty
>> Time to pour a glass of Merlot, sit back and watch the show.
derF...@gmail.com wrote:
> If anyone orders any Merlot I'm leaving. I'm not drinking any fucking
> Merlot.
Champagne tastes and a Merlot budget.
Amit Ghosh
>
> Yes Adam is watching along with other riders like Andy Hampsten who
> refused to go down the path of doping. Bravo to them. I agree that
> human nature being what it is, it's rather idealistic to speak of
> building it anew like Adam does. But Adam is an idealist as well as a
> realist. He's allowed to dream.
dumbass,
myerson is part of the same camp that believes that doping is a moral
violation that is different than other kinds of cheating. it is just a
sporting violation.
in the races myerson does riders taking illegitimate free laps is as
common as doping, if not more. but he doesn't write emotionally
charged posts about that issue.
he's not the only one guilty of thinking like that. i don't see jeff
novitsky investigating armstrong for the time his team dropped back
and paced him back into the pack behind a race vehicle after a
mechanical - though he was penalized time by the chief commissaire.
taking an illegal feed, chopping another rider or doping are all
sporting violations, with doping being perhaps the most serious - but
it is still a sporting violation and in itself not inherently immoral
or criminal (though activities related to doping might be).
A. Dumas Fred
> myerson is part of the same camp that believes that doping is a moral
> violation that is different than other kinds of cheating.
a) You are making that up. b) That's because it is. It is pervasive,
game-changing and results are strongly correlated to cost. No other
forms of cheating are such / have that effect (that I know of). That
makes it different.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
Even if it's more serious, doping is still just a sporting violation.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
A. Dumas Fred
> On Jun 12, 12:47 pm, "A. Dumas Fred" wrote:
>> Amit Ghosh wrote:
>>> myerson is part of the same camp that believes that doping is a moral
>>> violation that is different than other kinds of cheating.
>> a) You are making that up. b) That's because it is. It is pervasive,
>> game-changing and results are strongly correlated to cost. No other
>> forms of cheating are such / have that effect (that I know of). That
>> makes it different.
>
Sure, I don't think Amit was arguing it isn't, or at least that wasn't
how I interpreted it. Breaking the rules is always a moral issue.
Fred on a stick
> Sure, I don't think Amit was arguing it isn't, or at least that wasn't
> how I interpreted it. Breaking the rules is always a moral issue.
If a player unintentionally goes offside in football, that's breaking a
rule. Is it a moral issue?
Scott
wrote:
Unintentionally breaking a rule isn't cheating. It's a foul, or a
penalty, or whatever it's called in the particular sport being
contested at the time.
K. Fred Gauss
A better analogy is basketball. Players intentionally foul in basketball
all the time. It's part of the game.
A. Dumas
Indeed, I meant: intentionally.
Fredmaster of Brainerd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_foul
There is also a interesting play by Tom Stoppard called
"Professional Foul" that covers some of the same issues
(in a life situation with football as the analogy in a subplot).
Well, I thought it was interesting, anyway.
Taking a dive in soccer/football is part of the game.
So is playing a little hard/dirty but not so much as to
seriously injure. Players intend (usually) to push it
to what they can get away with, and every now and
then they either go too far or get caught and sent off.
But this isn't generally regarded as a moral failing.
I mean, Maradona handballing in a goal might be
regarded as a moral failing, but that's Maradona.
Plus I think doping is a lot more common and
tolerated/tolerable than handballing goals, which is
sort of the football equivalent of putting a motor
in your seat tube.
Fredkeeper Ben
Fred on a stick
Then what about intentional fouls in basketball to stop the clock or to
force a change in possession. Are those moral issues?
It's easier to focus on the behavior than to divine the intent. If the
behavior, whether intended or not, results in an advantage the simpler
mitigation is to neutralize (or penalize) the advantage.
A. Dumas
> Then what about intentional fouls in basketball to stop the clock or to
> force a change in possession. Are those moral issues?
That's why I hate ball sports, yes. Noli me tangere!
> It's easier to focus on the behavior than to divine the intent. If the
> behavior, whether intended or not, results in an advantage the simpler
> mitigation is to neutralize (or penalize) the advantage.
Quite right.
Betty
> I mean, Maradona handballing in a goal might be
> regarded as a moral failing, but that's Maradona.
The French would never do that.
Fred on a stick
> That's why I hate ball sports, yes. Noli me tangere!
I was trying to have an abstract conversation and there you go bringing
it right back to LANCE.
Amit Ghosh
> Sure, I don't think Amit was arguing it isn't, or at least that wasn't
> how I interpreted it. Breaking the rules is always a moral issue.
dumbass,
cheating is obviously inherently immoral. doping is a serious offense
but it is part of the continuum of sporting offenses that range from
the minor which warrant a warning, fine or time penalty to serious
which warrant a suspension, but i don' think it should be considered a
criminal offense.
Michael Press
Morals vary from person to person, from culture to culture.
Much is written about morals, and people disagree about
what is moral. Morals are a set of rules. So you argue circularly.
--
Michael Press