speaking of positives
Fred
Fred
Fred
"If Contador is disqualified from his third Tour de France victory, he
would become only the second rider in history to lose the title due to
a positive test. The other was the American Floyd Landis, who failed a
test for testosterone four years ago."
I think that greater than the shame of having a TdF title stripped for
doping would be knowing that you'd go down in history along w/ Floyd
as being the only two guys who've lost a title. Well, the only two so
far. Would you want your name permanently associated w/ Floyd? Big
question, will he 'fess up soon, or pull a Floyd on us and deny, deny,
deny?
Fred
DirtRoadie
> Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
Hey Bjarne- what's your take on this?
DR
Fredmaster of Brainerd
> "If Contador is disqualified from his third Tour de France victory, he
> would become only the second rider in history to lose the title due to
> a positive test. The other was the American Floyd Landis, who failed a
> test for testosterone four years ago."
>
>
> I think that greater than the shame of having a TdF title stripped for
> doping would be knowing that you'd go down in history along w/ Floyd
> as being the only two guys who've lost a title. Well, the only two so
> far. Would you want your name permanently associated w/ Floyd? Big
> question, will he 'fess up soon, or pull a Floyd on us and deny, deny,
> deny?
Oh, come on, there's a whole gallery of riders who
have virtually lost their TdF titles. Delgado, Roche,
Indurain, Ullrich, Pantani, Pharmstrong, Pereiro,
Sastre-doesnt-count, now Contador, you have to go
all the way back to 1990 to find a TdF winner.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/0d433d2710c3d67d?hl=en
Sincerely,
Greg Lemond
Steve Freides
It's a body builder's diet drug to the best of my knowledge. Could be
useful in getting lean for the race, but I don't think it would do much
taken _during_ the race as body composition matters are settled by then.
NB: I am not a doctor, nor an expert on this subject, but I've been a
competitive powerlifter (and even won awards in my class, which is old,
skinny guy).
-S-
Fred
> Fred wrote:
> > "If Contador is disqualified from his third Tour de France victory, he
> > would become only the second rider in history to lose the title due to
> > a positive test. The other was the American Floyd Landis, who failed a
> > test for testosterone four years ago."
>
> > Read more:
>
> > I think that greater than the shame of having a TdF title stripped for
> > doping would be knowing that you'd go down in history along w/ Floyd
> > as being the only two guys who've lost a title. Well, the only two so
> > far. Would you want your name permanently associated w/ Floyd? Big
> > question, will he 'fess up soon, or pull a Floyd on us and deny, deny,
> > deny?
>
> > Fred
>
> It's a body builder's diet drug to the best of my knowledge. Could be
> useful in getting lean for the race, but I don't think it would do much
> taken _during_ the race as body composition matters are settled by then.
>
> NB: I am not a doctor, nor an expert on this subject, but I've been a
> competitive powerlifter (and even won awards in my class, which is old,
> skinny guy).
>
> -S-
That's one use for it, but its a bronchodilator by design.
derf...@gmail.com
> have virtually lost their TdF titles. Delgado, Roche,
> Indurain, Ullrich, Pantani, Pharmstrong, Pereiro,
> Sastre-doesnt-count, now Contador, you have to go
> all the way back to 1990 to find a TdF winner.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Greg Lemond
Dear Greg,
Betsy overheard you telling the doctor what was REALLY in those "iron
shots".
Sincerely,
Frankie
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:356d55a9-5e43-46a8...@28g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
========
That's one use for it, but its a bronchodilator by design.
========
Wow. That's quite an endorsement for clenbuterol! At last, something the
pros use that I could legitimiately get a TUE for! (Not that I'd ever need a
TUE; even if I did get back into racing, the chances approach zero that I'd
ever be tested for anything other than sanity).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Mike Jacoubowsky
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clenbuterol
Effects and Dosage
Clenbuterol is a non-steroidal β2 adrenergic agonist[1] with some structural
and pharmacological similarities to epinephrine and salbutamol, but its
effects are more potent and longer-lasting as a stimulant and thermogenic
drug. It causes an increase in aerobic capacity, central nervous system
stimulation, and an increase in blood pressure and oxygen transportation. It
increases the rate at which fats are metabolized, simultaneously increasing
the body's BMR. It is commonly used for smooth muscle relaxant properties.
This means that it is a bronchodilator and tocolytic. It is usually used in
dosages anywhere from 20-60 micrograms a day when prescribed. A dose of
about 120 μg should never be exceeded in a day[citation needed]. It is also
prescribed for treatment of horses; however, equestrian usage is usually the
liquid form of clenbuterol. Clenbuterol is also a sympathomimetic in the
peripheral nervous system.
So let's see... for me, I can lose weight (YES!), breathe better (YES!) and
have better oxygen transportation (YES!).
Only downside I see is the blood pressure, which could be an issue for me.
Wow, I may finally have a reason to see a doctor regarding my asthma. Doc, I
want the good stuff!
Mike Jacoubowsky
> Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
>
> Fred
Perhaps plausible after all- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19680955
On the other hand, Fuyu Li, the RS rider, was popped for clenbuterol earlier
this year and accepted a two-year suspension without any allegations about
"food contamination."
Plano Dude
wrote:
> "Fred" <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:eaa97e3e-1674-4b08...@i13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
>
> > Fred
>
>
> On the other hand, Fuyu Li, the RS rider, was popped for clenbuterol earlier
> this year and accepted a two-year suspension without any allegations about
> "food contamination."
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Yeah, I greatly disappointed. Do I believe the food story? Not at all.
I don't know the testing characteristics (how long it stays in the
system, etc) but A) why didn't it show up on subsequent days he was
tested B) if it was food, why didn't his teammates show positive too
(presuming they were tested as well) C) I would be surprised if Astana
or any other team did not have their own cooks for the event, so the
likelihood of contamination is basically nothing (unless one of the
cooks' name is Schleck) D) I don't think Clenbuterol is a very
sophisticated drug (i.e. it's not new or hard to get - I think you can
buy it at any nutrition store, it's probably pretty obvious to detect,
it's been on the banned list since the mid 90's) so it's beyond me why
he would use it unless it came from some dumbass support staff from
Astana (or even Contador's brother) who was panicking because Contador
only had an 8 second lead on Schleck at the time and dumped it in
Contador's food without his knowledge.
Keith
<tx.was...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yeah, I greatly disappointed. Do I believe the food story? Not at all.
>I don't know the testing characteristics (how long it stays in the
>system, etc) but A) why didn't it show up on subsequent days he was
>tested B) if it was food, why didn't his teammates show positive too
>(presuming they were tested as well) C) I would be surprised if Astana
>or any other team did not have their own cooks for the event, so the
>likelihood of contamination is basically nothing (unless one of the
>cooks' name is Schleck) D)
Well it"s always the same story, they take stuff to be right at the
limit, like Floyd did with testosterone in 2006 and then for some
unplanned reason they pass that limit and they get popped.
Some are saying that it's not an effective drug, maybe, the same was
saif for testosterone, but when the difference between riders is
zilch, then every little bit counts.
It's ironic that Operation Puerto is about to come to an end, with
"A.C." remaining a big question mark, and then here comes that
positive.
DirtRoadie
wrote:
> "Fred" <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:eaa97e3e-1674-4b08...@i13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
>
So simple! AC's water bottles were filled at Portuguese cattle
farms!
Seriously though, where does AC stand?
Forget about whether you think he (1) has a plausible story, or (2) is
a sleazebag doper.
Assuming the positive is (or has been) confirmed - how does this play
out? It seems to me he's screwed either way. It's the "Moniger
syndrome" at the international level.
DR
Jim Feeley
On 9/29/10 6:24 PM, in article
b36eb2e4-672d-4af8...@g21g2000prn.googlegroups.com, "Plano
Dude" <tx.was...@gmail.com> wrote:
I looked into Clenbuterol a while ago. But this is from memory, so I may
have some of this wrong. I think it's mostly right. To your comments and
questions.
A) I think Clenbuterol can clear out of an athlete's system pretty quickly,
especially if it was only taken/accidentally consumed once.
B) Contador was tested every day he was in the yellow jersey. His teammates
may not have been tested on the day he turned in the poz sample.
C) Clenbuterol is (or at least was) approved by a few countries for use in
food animals. A dozen or so years ago, the US Food and Drug Agency (I think
it was) put out some notice about Clenbuterol contamination. So
maaayyyybeee there's a slight chance there's something to AC's
contamination story.
D) I'm pretty sure in most countries were Clenbuterol is approved for human
use it's only available with a prescription. Ya, that doesn't mean much, but
it's not an over-the-counter drug.
Why would someone in Contador's position take Clenbuterol? He doesn't have a
TUE for asthma, does he? Weren't people saying the tour wasn't as hard this
year? So maybe he needed to lose weight. Maybe he was jealous of all the
attention LA is getting with his doping case.
I'd like to know the names of the "experts" mentioned in his press release.
Are they medical doctors, scientists, or just PR flacks who know their way
around Google?
And just how much Clenbuterol was found in AC's sample?
Jim
raamman
stinking fish ? haw haw
Ben Trovato
> Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
>
> Fred
Another ex-teammate bites the dust...
--D-y
Bjarne is 60% positive, as usual.
--D-y
DirtRoadie
> Seriously though, where does AC stand?
> Forget about whether you think he (1) has a plausible story, or (2) is
> a sleazebag doper.
> Assuming the positive is (or has been) confirmed - how does this play
> out? It seems to me he's screwed either way. It's the "Moniger
> syndrome" at the international level.
DR
DirtRoadie
> so andy won
That's how it appears. I don't see much of an out for AC.
Earlier cases (Justin Gatlin and Scott Moniger to name two ) suggest
than innocence of intent is no defense.
DR
TheCoz
Let's all cut the shit. It was LA who tainted AC's salad while AC was
messing with Schleck's front derailleur the night before.
Ooorrrrrr, Astana's team doctor is actually a veterinarian.
Coz
drmofe
> Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
>
> Fred
That's what the Chinese guy on Radioshit tested for as well.
Welcome back to the 1980s.
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> Clenbuterol? Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
drmofe wrote:
> That's what the Chinese guy on Radioshit tested for as well.
> Welcome back to the 1980s.
Next thing everyone will be listening to the village people.
Uncle Dave
> "If Contador is disqualified from his third Tour de France victory, he
> would become only the second rider in history to lose the title due to
> a positive test. The other was the American Floyd Landis, who failed a
> test for testosterone four years ago."
>
>
> I think that greater than the shame of having a TdF title stripped for
> doping would be knowing that you'd go down in history along w/ Floyd
> as being the only two guys who've lost a title. Well, the only two so
> far. Would you want your name permanently associated w/ Floyd? Big
> question, will he 'fess up soon, or pull a Floyd on us and deny, deny,
> deny?
He's Spanish. They never tell the truth anyway, it's not considered
macho. He'll probably blame his mother's milk or something.
UD
derf...@gmail.com
> Contaminated food? c'mon... really?
Must have been the andouillette.
http://unclestinky.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/andouillette_1sm.jpg
Fred Flintstein
Well, right there he breaks with Moninger. Whose lab results in his
defense were faked and in an almost childish manner.
I'm skeptical. Not that he's doping, he certainly is. But clenbuterol
is a little too old skool.
Fred Flintstein
Fred Flintstein
> I don't know the testing characteristics (how long it stays in the
> system, etc) but
In Voet's book he talks about charging up on clenbuterol and then
being tested daily to determine the detection window. I think he
was hot for several days but less than a week.
Fred Flintstein
Fred Flintstein
Just for giggles, read Moninger's judgement.
http://www.usada.org/files/active/arbitration_rulings/arbitration_ruling_4_3_2003_Moninger.pdf
He totally fucked up the lab results he submitted in his defense,
they were pretty easily shown as faked.
I'd have given him two years just for being so sloppy.
Fred Flintstein
Jeff Jones
>
> Yeah, I greatly disappointed. Do I believe the food story? Not at all.
> I don't know the testing characteristics (how long it stays in the
> system, etc) but A) why didn't it show up on subsequent days he was
> tested
It did in the sample taken the next day, at roughly half the level of
the previous day. Negative before the rest day though.
Clenbuterol's half life is 36-39 hrs according to wikipedia.
There's no doubt it was in his sample(s) but as to how it got there,
that's up for debate.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> limit, like Floyd did with testosterone in 2006 and then for some
> unplanned reason they pass that limit and they get popped.
This is different because *there is no limit.* Any detectable amount at all
is grounds for suspension, and the technology to test for Clenbuterol
appears to greatly exceed what WADA has requested from the labs.
This isn't really like Floyd's testosterone patches. Floyd (and everybody
else) knew you could get away with a certain level of doping and still pass
the controls, *even though it was detectable.*
I don't think any but the least-likely-to-be-tested athletes would be dumb
enough to engage in doping when even a trace triggers a suspension.
Many of us have stuck up for athletes who have failed doping controls
before, and almost always turned out to be stupid for doing so. You'd think
a lesson would have been learned, but no, I'm not willing to say that
Contador doped. If Contador's legal team can come up with evidence showing
Clenbutero in random samples of the public, at similar levels, and if
there's no other evidence of doping, I'd let him off.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Steve Freides
Well, I don't think anyone uses it that way now. There are much better,
safer long-acting medicines that perform that function for people - the
inhaled steroids like Advair.
-S-