9 stitches across knee= 2 weeks off?
Mike Jacoubowsky
Tuesday/Thursday-morning thrashing. Started out a bit slow up the hill
(Kings Mtn) because he had a small seizure at the start of the ride (he has
epilepsy, generally controlled, but...) and didn't really get up to speed
until Skyline. He was, for him, on fire on the back side of Old LaHonda, "on
the rivet" as they say all the way back up to Skyline.
It was after the ride, on the return home, about half a mile from home on
the final little descent that he heard something on his bike, looked down,
and road off the road and down an embankment, bike against tree, Kevin
against the ground. Unfortunately, his encounter with the ground apparently
included a strategically-placed rock that sliced his knee open so cleanly it
looked like something in an anatomy book. Seriously. After cleaning it up at
the hospital, the patella was *right there.* Pretty gory, pretty cool.
9 stitches, and they said two weeks off the bike or the stitches could/would
rip apart. Now, if this were me, I'd be telling them sorry, that's
unacceptable, there's got to be a way. Looser stitches or something. Hard
for me to believe a pro cyclist would be off the bike for two weeks because
of something like this.
Or would they? Anyone have experience with something like this? It's
frustrating because he's made such amazing progress lately. This is a kid
that used to be 5'3 and 230 pounds and is not 5'9 and about 181 and still
moving in the right direction. I don't want to interrupt that process. :-)
Sorry I can't add any relevant content regarding doping, but none of the
many meds he's on have any stimulative qualities whatsoever. Quite the
opposite. I could provide a list if need be.
Thanks-
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
--D-y
> Had a good ride with my son this morning; the regular
> Tuesday/Thursday-morning thrashing. Started out a bit slow up the hill
> (Kings Mtn) because he had a small seizure at the start of the ride (he has
> epilepsy, generally controlled, but...) and didn't really get up to speed
> until Skyline. He was, for him, on fire on the back side of Old LaHonda, "on
> the rivet" as they say all the way back up to Skyline.
>
> It was after the ride, on the return home, about half a mile from home on
> the final little descent that he heard something on his bike, looked down,
> and road off the road and down an embankment, bike against tree, Kevin
> against the ground. Unfortunately, his encounter with the ground apparently
> included a strategically-placed rock that sliced his knee open so cleanly it
> looked like something in an anatomy book. Seriously. After cleaning it up at
> the hospital, the patella was *right there.* Pretty gory, pretty cool.
>
> 9 stitches, and they said two weeks off the bike or the stitches could/would
> rip apart. Now, if this were me, I'd be telling them sorry, that's
> unacceptable, there's got to be a way. Looser stitches or something. Hard
> for me to believe a pro cyclist would be off the bike for two weeks because
> of something like this.
>
> Or would they? Anyone have experience with something like this? It's
> frustrating because he's made such amazing progress lately. This is a kid
> that used to be 5'3 and 230 pounds and is not 5'9 and about 181 and still
> moving in the right direction. I don't want to interrupt that process. :-)
Well, tough luck on the crash. Usually not a good thing but it does
happen to us all, and as I reminded my friend Greg, who is one of the
good ones from around here but had a nasty crash recently "over
nothing", it does happen to us all incl. one Davis Phinney, certainly
one of the best I ever saw (one notable performance in a rainy Pecan
St. crit, Austin, in the old Tour of Texas days), way back in his
prime days reached down to adjust his cyclometer pickup or something
and had himself a very nasty fall, with injury. D'oh!
Sometimes, I've found that riding just makes me hungry and I've done
good weight control (if not recently!) by staying home and being
quiet, just walking the dogs and squelching the calorie intake. That
could work for a young guy with that young guy blast-furnace
metabolism <g>.
Youth, wasted on the young.
--D-y
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Mike,
Step back and have perspective. Two weeks
off the bike is not going to set back a teenager unless
he was trying to peak for the Death Ride in the 3rd
week (I don't even know when the ride is, it was just
an example). I sympathize with your desire to not
see him sitting on a couch, so take him for a long
day hike in Big Basin or something like that - with
fewer knee bends, it'll probably be fine WRT the
stitches. A little variety in outdoor activity is good.
Ben
Steve Freides
> Had a good ride with my son this morning; the regular
> Tuesday/Thursday-morning thrashing. Started out a bit slow up the hill
> (Kings Mtn) because he had a small seizure at the start of the ride
> (he has epilepsy, generally controlled, but...) and didn't really get
> up to speed until Skyline. He was, for him, on fire on the back side
> of Old LaHonda, "on the rivet" as they say all the way back up to
> Skyline.
> It was after the ride, on the return home, about half a mile from
> home on the final little descent that he heard something on his bike,
> looked down, and road off the road and down an embankment, bike
> against tree, Kevin against the ground. Unfortunately, his encounter
> with the ground apparently included a strategically-placed rock that
> sliced his knee open so cleanly it looked like something in an
> anatomy book. Seriously. After cleaning it up at the hospital, the
> patella was *right there.* Pretty gory, pretty cool.
> 9 stitches, and they said two weeks off the bike or the stitches
> could/would rip apart. Now, if this were me, I'd be telling them
> sorry, that's unacceptable, there's got to be a way. Looser stitches
> or something. Hard for me to believe a pro cyclist would be off the
> bike for two weeks because of something like this.
Mike, you seem like a nice guy, but you're off your tree on this one.
The knee bends a lot during the pedal stroke, and two weeks sounds
pretty quick, not too long.
> Or would they? Anyone have experience with something like this? It's
> frustrating because he's made such amazing progress lately. This is a
> kid that used to be 5'3 and 230 pounds and is not 5'9 and about 181
> and still moving in the right direction. I don't want to interrupt
> that process. :-)
A little rest won't hurt him - if he can walk, let him do that, or lift
weights, or whatever. Don't forget that the body needs calories to
heal, too - a few days of nothing is probably what's best, and then you
can see how he feels after that.
-S-
Mark J.
I'm with Ben. Two weeks is short, but a worsened scar is nearly forever
(and I'm guessing an ugli_er_ scar is the *least* of the evil
side-effects that could come from not following the doctor's orders, not
to mention torn stitches and/or infection).
Take the time to teach him how to build a wheel, or watch or grand tour
tapes or something.
Hope the healing goes well,
Mark J.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:8bri0e...@mid.individual.net...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> Had a good ride with my son this morning; the regular
>> Tuesday/Thursday-morning thrashing. Started out a bit slow up the hill
>> (Kings Mtn) because he had a small seizure at the start of the ride
>> (he has epilepsy, generally controlled, but...) and didn't really get
>> up to speed until Skyline. He was, for him, on fire on the back side
>> of Old LaHonda, "on the rivet" as they say all the way back up to
>> Skyline.
>> It was after the ride, on the return home, about half a mile from
>> home on the final little descent that he heard something on his bike,
>> looked down, and road off the road and down an embankment, bike
>> against tree, Kevin against the ground. Unfortunately, his encounter
>> with the ground apparently included a strategically-placed rock that
>> sliced his knee open so cleanly it looked like something in an
>> anatomy book. Seriously. After cleaning it up at the hospital, the
>> patella was *right there.* Pretty gory, pretty cool.
>> 9 stitches, and they said two weeks off the bike or the stitches
>> could/would rip apart. Now, if this were me, I'd be telling them
>> sorry, that's unacceptable, there's got to be a way. Looser stitches
>> or something. Hard for me to believe a pro cyclist would be off the
>> bike for two weeks because of something like this.
>
> Mike, you seem like a nice guy, but you're off your tree on this one. The
> knee bends a lot during the pedal stroke, and two weeks sounds pretty
> quick, not too long.
Unquestionably I'm off my tree on this one! And I should have been more
clear; what's done is done for Kevin. My question should have been, how
would they have handled this for someone who couldn't afford to not be off
the bike for two weeks? Looser stitches? Different technology? Or is that
just the way it is? (In other words, if it ever happens to *me*, what are my
options?)
It wouldn't even occur to me to ask except for my experience with my broken
wrist (actually the bone at the base of the thumb), where they were going to
cast me for two months. I explained that didn't work for me, and they
brought in a hand surgeon who said no problem, here's what we do, simple
operation, ti screw goes here and you're back to new in two weeks.
Anything that implies I'm a rational person here is a successful cover. I'm
not. On Tuesday & Thursday mornings, I ride. No matter the weather, no
matter how I'm feeling. I don't expect others to behave similarly (although
some do). This, ironically, is what keeps me sane. Something in my world
that I am in total control of and can depend upon.
>> Or would they? Anyone have experience with something like this? It's
>> frustrating because he's made such amazing progress lately. This is a
>> kid that used to be 5'3 and 230 pounds and is not 5'9 and about 181
>> and still moving in the right direction. I don't want to interrupt
>> that process. :-)
>
> A little rest won't hurt him - if he can walk, let him do that, or lift
> weights, or whatever. Don't forget that the body needs calories to heal,
> too - a few days of nothing is probably what's best, and then you can see
> how he feels after that.
When I busted up my left arm in a bike race back in the day... I was 17 I
think, managed to take either the ulna or radius, don't remember which, and
split it lengthwise (don't recommend doing that, by the way), I was off the
bike for two months with large cast & pins. I discovered hiking & walking.
20 miles in a day was no big thing. But I had my legs; Kevin might be up to
that in a few days, but not yet. I just wish there was something he could do
to keep the metabolism going. A week off the bike, sure. Two weeks is a very
long time to have to essentially go on a diet and starve yourself. Plus not
fall into the bad habits that caused him trouble in the past (too many video
games).
He's a really good kid, but has had a pretty tough break (his epilepsy) that
he can't do much about (which had nothing to do with the crash by the way).
Cycling has been that thing in his life that's brought him some degree of
independence plus a transformative effect on his health over the past five
years. It's been a very long and sometimes very tough road, but he hung in
there. As you suspect, I just need to be a bit less anxious about this.
Thanks-
>
> -S-
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:i3a5bp$uue$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I assume the issue with the scar is flexibility, not appearance. Or have
things changed so much since my days as a kid that a scar is no longer cool?
:-)
As for watching a grand tour tape, we just got back from one in real life.
10 days following the TdF through the Pyrenees and on to Paris. Got to ride
up the Port de Bales, Aubsique and Tourmalet (or all but the final 9k of the
Tourmalet, thanks apparently to Sarkozy and security... grrr...). Very
thankful this happened afterward and not before!
--D-y
Sparing the personal narrative relating to parentally watching a
potentially very serious accident result in only another broken arm
(total of 5 so far, between 2 kids): if you're not a parent, frankly,
you don't have shit to say about this particular kind of anxiety <g>.
Is it possible to get some "gym time", like on exercise machines that
isolate various areas of the body?
--D-y
GoneBeforeMyTime
>
> Or would they? Anyone have experience with something like this?
> Mike Jacoubowsky
I was working with a guy one time who dropped a big heavy belt sander into
his knee, well just above it cutting it neatly straight across like a knife
or something similar would do. Loss of blood was big factor getting him to
the hospital quickly, messy. 50 stitches across, plus repairs. Not sure what
veins or arteries, but pretty messy and harder to stomach then you think.
Watching someone bleed out is quick tramatic even to a spectator. Not sure
about his loss of feeling, nerves but he was laid up for a few months with a
bit of rehab. Luckily the hospital was only about two miles away.
Fred on a stick
> 9 stitches, and they said two weeks off the bike or the stitches
> could/would rip apart. Now, if this were me, I'd be telling them sorry,
> that's unacceptable, there's got to be a way. Looser stitches or
> something. Hard for me to believe a pro cyclist would be off the bike
> for two weeks because of something like this.
>
> Or would they? Anyone have experience with something like this?
Tell Kevin I'm sorry to hear about his accident.
Now, on to you, dumbass. Wound care isn't the same thing as ortho
surgery so your analogy doesn't work. There are lots of ways that
dehiscence can happen and you don't want any of them. From a structural
standpoint, it matters a little whether the slice across the knee was
vertical or horizontal, and the length of the slice, but only a little.
However, from a post-injury standpoint "two weeks" is just a guess. If
you were Michele Bartoli you'd be having your knee looked at every day
to check the integrity of the stitches and the progress of healing. I
don't know which insurance plan you're on but I'm guessing daily visits
aren't covered.
Steve Freides
Even though I am a parent, I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment on this
one, truth be told. I've got two boys, but both have always been
active, both have always been damn near exactly 50th percentile in both
height and weight for their ages, and both have been very active their
entire lives - bike, soccer, run, basketball, you name it, if one of
their friends did it, they'd at least try it, too.
And, to the best of my knowledge, no broken bones yet although many
spills on the bike. I told this story once (here?) but my oldest, when
he was six, rode down our street after they'd torn it up for repaving.
The result was that when he tried to ride up a driveway, the street was
deeper, his front wheel didn't clear, and he did an endo, flying over
the handlebars. The good news was that he'd already been doing Tae Kwon
Do for a few years, and he just did this tumble/roll thing as he landed,
and came out it without any injury at all - just stood and there and
looked at me like, "what just happened, Daddy?" It was a way cool thing
to watch, in that scary, parent sort of way. :)
Mike, my guess is that they'd forego stitches if they could and just
bandage the area with something that stretched, but if they couldn't do
that, then I think the result would be just what your son got, stitches
and time off the bike.
-S-
A. Dumas
> If you were Michele Bartoli you'd be having your knee looked at every day
Old fart.
Henry
I think infection is the biggest worry.
Do some planning, technique work, reading, maybe yoga to help
concentration. Visit sick people in hospital, especially ones with
limbs missing or dying from cancer. Take drugs to assist recovery if
you can find a Dr you trust.
Seriously, a great opportunity - if you can view it that way; count
his blessings, train the mind, see others that are worse off.
Fred on a stick
No credit for using "dehiscence"?
A. Dumas
> No credit for using "dehiscence"?
Damn. Congrats on first use in rbr! I missed it because it didn't seem
odd, I use it all the time.
Cough cough.
Steve Freides
+1
-S-
RicodJour
I thought it was a typo for 'deh science'...usually spoken with a
German accent.
R
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:d7594800-f07c-4a99...@l32g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
========
I think infection is the biggest worry.
Do some planning, technique work, reading, maybe yoga to help
concentration. Visit sick people in hospital, especially ones with
limbs missing or dying from cancer. Take drugs to assist recovery if
you can find a Dr you trust.
Seriously, a great opportunity - if you can view it that way; count
his blessings, train the mind, see others that are worse off.
========
It had to happen sometime; nobody rides hard and doesn't crash (and this was
his first real crash; he'd had a couple of semi-controlled incidents in the
past, related to his epilepsy, but nothing like this). It finally brought
home to him something I've been talking to him about for some time- the
insane lines he sometimes takes through corners. No margin for error; he'll
ride a left-turning corner within a few inches of the edge of the roadway,
at speed, and sometimes I can hear the gravel spitting off his tires. He's
gotten better about that, having spent a fair amount of time now riding in
groups of experienced riders, but he still feels way too comfortable out
there.
I rode past the scene this morning, and yeah, it could have been worse. A
lot worse. There's a road sign, some of those two-foot-tall edge-of-road
markers, a couple trees... he actually got lucky. He was able to pick
himself up (with my help dragging him up the embankment) and ride home
(thankfully downhill and only half a mile or so). No head injuries, nothing
broken.
Hopefully he's not an idiot like his dad. When I raced and took a good
spill, I usually came back more-confident than before, attitude being hey,
if that's the worst that can happen, big deal. If I didn't have four or so
encounters with the pave each season, it was an indication I wasn't riding
aggressively enough. I no longer find crashing, for any reason, acceptable.
I was nuts then.
For Kevin, I'm pretty sure this will be the end of his riding at the far
edge of the roadway on a corner. And if the only damage is two weeks off the
bike, it's not the most-expensive lesson he'll ever have.
The toughest thing is simply the sudden move from being highly-active to
sedentary. And I'm more sensitive to that than I should be, because he led
an excessively-sedentary life in the past. I just have to realize that
inside, he *is* chomping at the bit, wanting to get back on the bike, and
that two weeks off isn't going to kill him. He'll come back hungry, and
he'll have learned an important lesson about riding.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
RicodJour
>
> The toughest thing is simply the sudden move from being highly-active to
> sedentary. And I'm more sensitive to that than I should be, because he led
> an excessively-sedentary life in the past. I just have to realize that
> inside, he *is* chomping at the bit, wanting to get back on the bike, and
> that two weeks off isn't going to kill him. He'll come back hungry, and
> he'll have learned an important lesson about riding.
It's tough, Mike, but I think if you try not to worry and be relaxed
about the whole thing, his own motivation will get him back on the
bike a lot faster than him feeling guilty that he's 'worrying Dad',
right?
It's all about the fun.
R