Doping thread...or not?
atriage
highest) speed but higher than Bertie Dopador's last year. It's 0.1mph below
Pantani's winning average in 1998 when Marco's haemocrit levels were off the
scale (allegedly).
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/tour-de-france-winners-and-their-average-speeds_186088
--
Jimmy July
Not quite what I expected, but close. I've been waiting for someone to
compare CFE's past performances in grand tours to this one. There are
inferences to be made.
Phil H
> On 7/24/2011 9:23 AM, atriage wrote:
>
> > So the winners average speed this year is 1.1 mph below LA's 2005 peak
> > (all time highest) speed but higher than Bertie Dopador's last year.
> > It's 0.1mph below Pantani's winning average in 1998 when Marco's
> > haemocrit levels were off the scale (allegedly).
>
> Not quite what I expected, but close. I've been waiting for someone to
> compare CFE's past performances in grand tours to this one. There are
> inferences to be made.
There are too many confounding variables to infer one way or the other
that doping was a factor.
Phil H
BL
Look at their faces on the climbs and at the finish of climbing stages.
It looks like the Tour is cleaner. I may even buy a DVD set of the
race. :-)
Jimmy July
I agree. However there are many people who have inferred more, from far
less.
Jimmy July
>> There are too many confounding variables to infer one way or the other
>> that doping was a factor.
>> Phil H
>
> Look at their faces on the climbs and at the finish of climbing stages.
> It looks like the Tour is cleaner.
Same thing you said about the 2006 tour.
BL
Adama
For the record, the 10 best times ever of the Alpe d'Huez climb :
36'40" : Marco Pantani (ITA) en 1995
36'45" : Marco Pantani (ITA) en 1997
37'15" : Marco Pantani (ITA) en 1994
37'30" : Jan Ullrich (ALL) en 1997
37'36" : Lance Armstrong (USA) en 2004
38'01" : Lance Armstrong (USA) en 2001
38'04" : Miguel Indurain (ESP) en 1995
38'04" : Alex Zülle (SUI) en 1995
38'06" : Bjarne Riis (DAN) en 1995
38'11" : Richard Virenque (FRA) en 1997
This year :
41'45" : Samuel Sanchez
41'54" : Alberto Contador
42'22" : Pierre Rolland
42'28" : Cadel Evans, Damiano Cunego, Andy et Fränk Schleck, Peter
Velits, Thomas de Gendt
42'46" : Tom Danielson
42'58" : Jean Christophe Péraud
Sanchez finished with roughly the same time in 2009 (41"41'), but Sastre
was 2 mn faster in the climb that year.
Davey Crockett
>
| For the record, the 10 best times ever of the Alpe d'Huez climb :
>
| 36'40" : Marco Pantani (ITA) en 1995
| 36'45" : Marco Pantani (ITA) en 1997
| 37'15" : Marco Pantani (ITA) en 1994
| 37'30" : Jan Ullrich (ALL) en 1997
| 37'36" : Lance Armstrong (USA) en 2004
| 38'01" : Lance Armstrong (USA) en 2001
| 38'04" : Miguel Indurain (ESP) en 1995
| 38'04" : Alex Zülle (SUI) en 1995
| 38'06" : Bjarne Riis (DAN) en 1995
| 38'11" : Richard Virenque (FRA) en 1997
>
| This year :
>
| 41'45" : Samuel Sanchez
| 41'54" : Alberto Contador
| 42'22" : Pierre Rolland
| 42'28" : Cadel Evans, Damiano Cunego, Andy et Fränk Schleck, Peter
| Velits, Thomas de Gendt
| 42'46" : Tom Danielson
| 42'58" : Jean Christophe Péraud
>
| Sanchez finished with roughly the same time in 2009 (41"41'), but
| Sastre was 2 mn faster in the climb that year.
I wonder how much the route affected this years or in fact any years times
Telegraph-Galibier-Huez
--
Davey Crockett
GP Wallonie July 23-27
http://azurservers.com
Scott
> --
Average speed smells like fish.
ilan
> --
Well, I certainly enjoyed the "Anti-doping experts believe in credible
figures" article on CyclingNews
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/2011-tour-de-france-the-cleanest-in-recent-years
The two remarks I enjoyed most were:
1. riders have appeared to cross the finish line in more obvious
states of fatigue than in the recent past.
2. Grappe said he feared future possibilities of "manipulating the
muscle fibers, the central nervous system and the tolerance threshold
to pain."
They are so ludicrous that they don't even need to be explicitly
refuted. I find these supposed experts contemptible, and yet they are
necessary for my well-being -- I'm so insecure that their mediocrity
makes me feel better about myself.
-ilan
Jimmy July
Also this:
"Cadel Evans' performances are the best way to measure this. He's been
stable for the past eight years. He doesn't do any better than in
previous years. It's the Schlecks and Contador who are slower. This Tour
has been one of the slowest on the climbs since 2004," commented Grappe,
who is usually known for his scepticism with regard to doping.
There you go. To find a Tour this clean, you have to go all the way back
to 2004. Yep, the Armstrong years were the pinnacle of clean racing. The
numbers prove it.
atriage
:) I believe,I believe.
<pins picture of LA back on wall>
--
atriage
Are we back in the Liz Hatch product review thread? :)
--
ilan
> On 7/24/2011 6:12 PM, ilan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 6:23 pm, atriage<atri...@satriage.net> wrote:
> >> So the winners average speed this year is 1.1 mph below LA's 2005 peak (all time
> >> highest) speed but higher than Bertie Dopador's last year. It's 0.1mph below
> >> Pantani's winning average in 1998 when Marco's haemocrit levels were off the
> >> scale (allegedly).http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/tour-de-france-winners-an...
> >> --
>
> > Well, I certainly enjoyed the "Anti-doping experts believe in credible
> > figures" article on CyclingNews
>
> > The two remarks I enjoyed most were:
>
> > 1. riders have appeared to cross the finish line in more obvious
> > states of fatigue than in the recent past.
>
> > 2. Grappe said he feared future possibilities of "manipulating the
> > muscle fibers, the central nervous system and the tolerance threshold
> > to pain."
>
> > They are so ludicrous that they don't even need to be explicitly
> > refuted. I find these supposed experts contemptible, and yet they are
> > necessary for my well-being -- I'm so insecure that their mediocrity
> > makes me feel better about myself.
>
> Also this:
> "Cadel Evans' performances are the best way to measure this. He's been
> stable for the past eight years. He doesn't do any better than in
> previous years. It's the Schlecks and Contador who are slower. This Tour
> has been one of the slowest on the climbs since 2004," commented Grappe,
> who is usually known for his scepticism with regard to doping.
>
> There you go. To find a Tour this clean, you have to go all the way back
> to 2004. Yep, the Armstrong years were the pinnacle of clean racing. The
> numbers prove it.
The conclusions are limitless, as follows from an incorrect
assumption. But a good start his the 2002 Giro where he was leading
the race until the very last climb, which gives a formal proof that
in 2002, everyone waited until just before the last climb to dope,
they probably got their transfusions right after the inter Giro
sprint. Anyway, Tyler Hamilton will regurgitate all the nasty details
as soon as Cadel gains Lance-like glory.
-ilan
BL
will see the dopers in future fall off the bike like Simpson. Lovely.
atriage
The bookmakers will start offering odds on how far up Ventoux they'll get before
this happens.
--
BL
RicodJour
>
> Well, I certainly enjoyed the "Anti-doping experts believe in credible
>
> The two remarks I enjoyed most were:
>
> 1. riders have appeared to cross the finish line in more obvious
> states of fatigue than in the recent past.
Holy shit. I just realized that I was a doper in high school! The
lacrosse and soccer (football to the wanker crowd) coach used to have
us do wind sprints at the end of practice. The guy who won the wind
sprint got to stop and go have a nice cool drink from the water
bucket. I was fast, but not the fastest so I saved my energy for the
sprints I could win, but if the coach saw you dogging it, he'd make
you run laps. So I developed a quite convincing Gasp!-I'm-DYING! look
when doing the preliminary sprints. I had no idea that I was covering
up for being a doper.
Maybe acting lessons will become required for dopers so they'll look
convincingly drained at the end of a tough stage.
R
Simply Fred
> Maybe acting lessons will become required for dopers so they'll look
> convincingly drained at the end of a tough stage.
I think they teach that at the LANCE academy in the 2nd semester as the
1st semester is dedicated to The Shit that will Kill them 101.
atriage
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