Ghent Wevelgem
Fred K. Gringioni
I thought it was supposed to be during the week between Flanders and
Paris-Roubaix.
When did they move it?
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Scott
Fredmaster of Brainerd
No wonder Hincapie mistimed the sprint.
Scott
It wasn't a mistimed sprint, it was a perfectly timed leadout. He
just got confused as to which team he rides for now. At least his
teammate won.
Fred Flintstein
> It wasn't a mistimed sprint, it was a perfectly timed leadout. He
> just got confused as to which team he rides for now. At least his
> teammate won.
Sometimes your prize is a favor that you can call in later.
Since he wasn't going to win the sprint that may have been
a reasonable alternative. Assuming he wasn't paid to lead
out that is.
Fred Flintstein
Scott
wrote:
I think that is a very likely scenario, but it could also be just one
guy, who knew he couldn't win himself, helping out an old friend.
There may be no quid pro quo at all.
Magilla Gorilla
You two cocksuckers need to shut up. Hincapie wasn't giving a leadout to
an 'old friend.' he was trying to win the fucking race himself and felt
he could best do that with a longer sprint. You people just make up
these things in your own mind.
Thanks,
Magilla
Scott
I guess you're right. Stuff like we described above never happens in
cycling. What the hell were we thinking???
Amit Ghosh
wrote:
> You two cocksuckers need to shut up. Hincapie wasn't giving a leadout to
> an 'old friend.' he was trying to win the fucking race himself and felt
> he could best do that with a longer sprint. You people just make up
> these things in your own mind
what ? you don't believe that hincapie would lead out eisel in
exchange for a powergel ?
Magilla Gorilla
Stop acting like an idiot. Pros don't make it to the final 500 meters of a
Pro Tour race and then decide on the spur of the moment they're gonna leadout
an "old friend" who just so happens to be on a different team.
When you watch a football game and a guy catches a touchdown pass, do you say,
"Oh the defensive end gave the wide receiver that catch because they were 'old
friends' who use to be on the same team?"
Stop acting like a jackass.
Magilla
Scott
What makes you think the decision was made on the spur of the moment?
Magilla Gorilla
Scott wrote:
I told you tot stop acting like a jackass, didn't I? Now you're telling me that
Hincrapie came up with this plan the day before the fucking race or something.
Unless you can link to a quote from Hincrapie that says this, on what basis do you
think you can just make up stuff like this? What do you think Stapler Scissorhands
would say about his rider throwing a race for a 'friend?'
Why not just say Hincrapie threw the race because he was betting $100,000 on the
guy who won through Mr., Bookmaker?
Magilla
Betty Munro
> what ? you don't believe that hincapie would lead out eisel in
> exchange for a powergel ?
Maybe it was a powergel from the blue cooler box.
Tom Kunich
news:4BB3AD56...@sandiegozoo.org...
> Scott wrote:
>> What makes you think the decision was made on the spur of the moment?
>
> I told you tot stop acting like a jackass, didn't I? Now you're telling
> me that
> Hincrapie came up with this plan the day before the fucking race or
> something.
> Unless you can link to a quote from Hincrapie that says this, on what
> basis do you
> think you can just make up stuff like this? What do you think Stapler
> Scissorhands
> would say about his rider throwing a race for a 'friend?'
>
> Why not just say Hincrapie threw the race because he was betting $100,000
> on the
> guy who won through Mr., Bookmaker?
??? Is Scott's answer somehow totally beyond your understanding? Did you
ever race?
Fred Flintstein
> I told you tot stop acting like a jackass, didn't I? Now you're telling me that
> Hincrapie came up with this plan the day before the fucking race or something.
> Unless you can link to a quote from Hincrapie that says this, on what basis do you
> think you can just make up stuff like this? What do you think Stapler Scissorhands
> would say about his rider throwing a race for a 'friend?'
Assclown,
GEORGE doesn't ride for Stapler.
Your argument requires that GEORGE thought he had a chance to win
the race. That seems unlikely. But we both know that.
Fred Flintstein
Magilla Gorilla
Right Och, whatever. The winner is on a different team than Georgio. That's the only
thing that matters. Do you think pros throw big races for their 'friends? '
Magilla
Fred Flintstein
According to Benjo they do it all the time for money. Who
should we believe, him or you?
Fred Flintstein
Magilla Gorilla
First of all, Benjo didn't say jack about Hincrapie's sprint the other day so merely
surmising they did it then based on a GUESS is fucked up.
Second, how would Benjo know what goes on given that to make such bets is an explicit UCI
rule violation? That's really fraud. It's the baseball equivalent of Pete Rose betting on
baseball. Telling me that "it goes on all the time" means the entire sport is corrupt at
the athletic level that is arguably worse than doping. It's like a boxer hitting the
canvas and throwing a title fight. I seriously doubt Benjo would know that it goes on and
the UCI and press does not. Okay, maybe not Velobooze of Cyclingnews, but L'Equipe or some
UK rag would definitely make a big deal of it once they got wind of such a case.
I'm not saying it never goes on, but if you're in the hunt in a big race with less than 3
km to go, I don't think deals are being made. Especially a guy like Hincrapie who could
use the win.
Until you show me any canceled checks or surveillance photos of a cash exchange at a train
station, it's just conjecture.
I think Benjo is still living in the 1950's.
Magilla
Fredmaster of Brainerd
>
> Second, how would Benjo know what goes on given that to make such bets is an explicit UCI
> rule violation? That's really fraud. It's the baseball equivalent of Pete Rose betting on
> baseball.
Right, and no rider ever hangs on to a bottle longer
than necessary while taking a bottle from the car
on an uphill. Or drafts cars in the caravan while
returning to the peloton. Because those are rule
violations.
Fredmaster
Magilla Gorilla
Hey dumbass,
There are rules and then there are rules. Hanging onto a bottle is not a big deal because the
advantage gained is negligible, if any. It's also a violation to wear a wrinkled race number.
But that's not the same thing as testing positive for EPO, now is it?
Stop being a fucking idiot. All rules are not the same. And throwing a race for money is
considered a career ending offense in any sport if you are caught. Holding onto a water bottle
to get back to a neutral position in the peloton is not.
Magilla
Mark
That's a different magnitude of fraud than throwing the final result
of a race. I get the impression that all sports have no tolerance for
fraud committed in the heat of the battle that directly affects the
final outcome.
Fred Flintstein
If that impression is coming from the ape then consider the
source.
If you have a copy of stage 19 of the 2005 Giro, Simoni vs
Savoldelli from the Colle della Finestre to the finish in
Sestriere, that's a good example. The Giro was on the line
and both Simoni and Savoldelli were isolated from teammates.
Each of them engaged in discussions with riders in the lead
group (and old Peugeot teammates Yates and Peiper back in
the team cars).
The description is here:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2005//giro05/?id=results/giro0519
The end result was tactically fascinating. Much more
interesting than reading some ape retard yammer away while
typing with one hand.
Fred Flintstein
Fred Flintstein
You know, when I asked whether we are to believe Benjo or you on
this, that was a rhetorical question. Dumbass.
Fred Flintstein
Magilla Gorilla
Fred Flintstein wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> > On Apr 1, 1:39 am, Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 31, 9:56 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Second, how would Benjo know what goes on given that to make such bets is an explicit UCI
> >>> rule violation? That's really fraud. It's the baseball equivalent of Pete Rose betting on
> >>> baseball.
> >> Right, and no rider ever hangs on to a bottle longer
> >> than necessary while taking a bottle from the car
> >> on an uphill. Or drafts cars in the caravan while
> >> returning to the peloton. Because those are rule
> >> violations.
> >>
> >> Fredmaster
> >
> > That's a different magnitude of fraud than throwing the final result
> > of a race. I get the impression that all sports have no tolerance for
> > fraud committed in the heat of the battle that directly affects the
> > final outcome.
>
> If that impression is coming from the ape then consider the
> source.
>
Hey Dickweed,
In any sport, if you are caught throwing a game, it is grounds for a lifelong suspension and
banishment from the Hall of Fame. Ever heard of Pete Rose? Has nothing to do with my opinion.
It's a fact.
>
> If you have a copy of stage 19 of the 2005 Giro, Simoni vs
> Savoldelli from the Colle della Finestre to the finish in
> Sestriere, that's a good example. The Giro was on the line
> and both Simoni and Savoldelli were isolated from teammates.
> Each of them engaged in discussions with riders in the lead
> group (and old Peugeot teammates Yates and Peiper back in
> the team cars).
>
> The description is here:
> http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2005//giro05/?id=results/giro0519
>
> The end result was tactically fascinating. Much more
> interesting than reading some ape retard yammer away while
> typing with one hand.
>
> Fred Flintstein
And all cyclists in that incident admit that no money was ever exchanged and that nobody threw any
stage. So this example actually disapproves what you say. Or, are you talking about virtual
race fixing?
Thanks,
Magilla
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>And throwing a race for money is
>considered a career ending offense in any sport if you are caught.
The critical issue is whether or not he threw the race. If a rider
surmises he has no chance of winning the sprint, he can't 'throw the
race'. He can only choose to alter the outcome, one way or the other.
That a person in that situation chooses to alter the outcome toward a
friend that may pay it back later in similar circumstances, rather
than give it to someone that gives a rat ass or simply race stupidly
as if he could win when he can't, is hardly a difficult concept to
accept. In fact, giving the race to someone who may pay it back
arguably gives more to the team than a third place on the podium or
just having fourth and being two bike lengths closer.
Given your earlier comments (assuming this is the same chimp) about
places other than first and stupid, vainglorious attempts at places
that are unreachable, I would have expected you to agree with the
logic.
This is entirely different than a sprinter with a chance throwing the
win to a competitor. Hincapie had no chance in a finish with two or
more better close-in sprinters. He took a shot, saw it lost and gave
what he had to someone else. Maybe. Don't really know.
I would also toss out the bone of why is your logic different from
openly discussed stage wins given by the GC competitors. The
illegality of it would not change a hair just because LA may be going
for an overall GC and tossing (depending on who's talking) a stage win
to The Pirate. Really don't need to see you worry that one to death,
why one applies and the other does not. But since that is openly
discussed and no threats of fines tossed about, the UCI apparently
sees some room for flexibility here.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
Amit Ghosh
> And all cyclists in that incident admit that no money was ever exchanged and that nobody threw any
> stage. So this example actually disapproves what you say. Or, are you talking about virtual
> race fixing?
dumbass,
hincapie didn't throw the race, because he wasn't going to win anyway.
a more plausible scenario would be that eisel (the faster guy) would
sell the race to hincapie (the older richer pro).
i don't know what happens at the protour level, but in lower levels
riders do sell races - usually an amateur or low level pro (who wants
the money) will sell out to a older pro. catching it is almost
impossible. i only know of one case where a 'deal' between riders/
teams was penalized - that was because one of the riders bragged about
it on an internet board.
i've seen all kinds of blatant cheating, so what makes it magic that
taking bribes would be so sacred.
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Do you really think Hincapie could have beaten Eisel
in a straight-up sprint, but sold him the race? Then
join Magilla in the Delusional Georgie Fan Club.
If on the other hand Eisel (or his DS) negotiated a
lead-out from Hincapie, is that really different than
cases where, for example, a team with no obvious
sprinter puts two guys on the front to bring back a
break, or people in a second group help the race
leader chase down an escape with no obvious
benefit to themselves? (IIRC, there was a clear
incident of this in a recent Giro.) It's not fraud, it's
not throwing a race. It may not be pretty, especially
if you harbor the fantasy that the strongest guy always
wins, not the smartest. On the other hand, that's
what makes bike racing interesting. Except to Magilla.
Of course, there is no actual proof that Hincapie
actually deliberately did Eisel a favor.
Fredmaster Ben
Mark
>
> Do you really think Hincapie could have beaten Eisel
> in a straight-up sprint, but sold him the race? Then
> join Magilla in the Delusional Georgie Fan Club.
>
> If on the other hand Eisel (or his DS) negotiated a
> lead-out from Hincapie, is that really different than
> cases where, for example, a team with no obvious
> sprinter puts two guys on the front to bring back a
> break, or people in a second group help the race
> leader chase down an escape with no obvious
> benefit to themselves? (IIRC, there was a clear
> incident of this in a recent Giro.) It's not fraud, it's
> not throwing a race. It may not be pretty, especially
> if you harbor the fantasy that the strongest guy always
> wins, not the smartest. On the other hand, that's
> what makes bike racing interesting. Except to Magilla.
>
> Of course, there is no actual proof that Hincapie
> actually deliberately did Eisel a favor.
>
> Fredmaster Ben
>
with 10 km to go, what would you have done?
Michael Press
Magilla Gorilla <m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
You claim that there is no evidence for favors bought
and paid for in a race so it does not happen. Then you
cite UCI rules prohibiting such behavior, with
penalties. Do you see a connection?
--
Michael Press
Fred Flintstein
> And all cyclists in that incident admit that no money was ever exchanged and that nobody threw any
> stage. So this example actually disapproves what you say. Or, are you talking about virtual
> race fixing?
Retard,
Jesus Fucking Christ. Benjo asked one of them, and was told
the terms. Just like years ago Adri van der Poel told him
how many guilders Liege-Bastogne-Liege was worth.
Fred Flintstein
Magilla Gorilla
You dumbass,
There's no such thing as "winning" a stage in a stage race. Nobody
throws the GC. Crossing the line first on a stage in a stage race is a
meaningless act unless you are going for GC. It's like winning a point
in tennis and claiming that although you lost the match you "won" 189
points.
In every stage race there needs to be about 37 "winners" in cycling in
order to satisfy the pussified mentality of the people in this sport who
otherwise would not be able to deal with losing so often.
Thanks,
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Not really.
When was the last time that rule was enforced?
Magilla
Michael Press
Magilla Gorilla <m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
>
> > In article <4BB4A996...@sandiegozoo.org>,
> > Magilla Gorilla <m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mar 31, 9:56Â pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Second, how would Benjo know what goes on given that to make such bets is an explicit UCI
> > > > > rule violation? Â That's really fraud. Â It's the baseball equivalent of Pete Rose betting on
> > > > > baseball. Â
> > > >
> > > > Right, and no rider ever hangs on to a bottle longer
> > > > than necessary while taking a bottle from the car
> > > > on an uphill. Or drafts cars in the caravan while
> > > > returning to the peloton. Because those are rule
> > > > violations.
> > > >
> > > > Fredmaster
> > >
> > > Hey dumbass,
> > >
> > > There are rules and then there are rules. Hanging onto a bottle is not a big deal because the
> > > advantage gained is negligible, if any. It's also a violation to wear a wrinkled race number.
> > > But that's not the same thing as testing positive for EPO, now is it?
> > >
> > > Stop being a fucking idiot. All rules are not the same. And throwing a race for money is
> > > considered a career ending offense in any sport if you are caught. Holding onto a water bottle
> > > to get back to a neutral position in the peloton is not.
> >
> > You claim that there is no evidence for favors bought
> > and paid for in a race so it does not happen. Then you
> > cite UCI rules prohibiting such behavior, with
> > penalties. Do you see a connection?
>
> Not really.
>
> When was the last time that rule was enforced?
Because it is a rule violation, deals are not admitted to;
hence the lack of evidence.
--
Michael Press
H. Fred Kveck
Mark <msam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Holy crap, people - this isn't that hard to figure out. Hincapie, I'd surmise,
knew he had no chance for the win in that group. So any deal that was made was likely
not for cash, but for future consideration. For example, Eisel would help make sure
his team didn't lead a chase at the Tour that might jeopardize a jersey or some other
placing for Hincapie or his team if Hincapie doesn't contest a sprint he was unlikely
to win, especially if GH makes it look like he was going for the win but was, in
actuality, giving Eisel a bit of a leadout.
Magilla Gorilla
"H. Fred Kveck" wrote:
Goddamnit you are an idiot. Do you really think they had that discussion at 35 mph and
that Hincrapie would actually go back to his fucking team and 'order' them to do that
even though they didn't agree? Who the fuck is Hincrapie to make these deals anyway?
You better be one of these sarcasm jackasses.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Yeah, like riders can even make these deals and just overrule whatever strategy their team has planned for
some future race. You people have this fantasy of pro cycling that you just make up in your own mind.
Magilla
William Fred
<snip>
Vivaldi:
You're doing it again.
--
Bill Fred
Fred K. Gringioni
"Mark" <msam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2386b060-c0f2-46d1...@x4g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
>
> Fair enough. If you were in George's cleats after the final selection
> with 10 km to go, what would you have done?
Talk to one of the other non-sprinters. Start attacking and
counterattacking.
heather
> On Mar 30, 10:32 pm, Scott <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 30, 11:28 pm, "Fred K. Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dumbasses -
>>> I thought it was supposed to be during the week between Flanders and
>>> Paris-Roubaix.
>>> When did they move it?
>>> thanks,
>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>> This year.
>
> No wonder Hincapie mistimed the sprint.
I was reading the cyclingnews report today, and I found the following
line rather, er, unfortunate:
"...looking between my thighs I saw George coming."
I know, I know, this is just more proof that I'm not ready to join in
any adult conversation here.
(he said "coming", heh heh...)
h
Fredmaster of Brainerd
No, that's awesome. And to think there are people
who say that Cyclingnews doesn't publish anything
good anymore.
Fredmaster Ben