The Last Word On Cadence And Heart Rate
zencycle
misleading”.
Freddie says “cadence is a red herring”.
Andy agrees with freddie on cadence, freddie agrees with andy on heart
rate.
I had never heard of Andy Coggan before I poked my head in here a
couple of weeks ago. I had to do a little research; I found that he
wrote a book. I asked a few friends of mine if they had ever heard of
him. One of them is a coach with a PhD in exercise physiology, and
another is in grad school for the same discipline. The PhD said he
read the book and it was pretty good. The post grad said (quoting
here) “Coggan is perceived as God by many in our field, but he appears
to be a dick when he posts on those forums.”
When I mentioned the current thread on HR and cadence, both the post
grad and the PhD said they agreed with the basic premise that HR was
too variable to be a reliable training tool on its own, but neither
one agrees with the sentiment “heart rate is at best redundant and at
worst misleading”.
The post grad didn’t feel qualified to comment on the cadence issue,
but the PhD said “that’s odd, Coggans book is full of workouts with
cadence and heart rate targets”.
So, I borrowed his copy.
**
From
Training and Racing with a Power Meter by Hunter Allen and Andrew
Coggan
Page 300
VO2max: Race-winning Intervals, Ride 2
“for the main set, start out with 5 minutes at threshold, then ride
for 2 minutes at just above threshold (your heart rate will rise about
5 bpm). Bring it back down to threshold pace. For example, if your
threshold power is 300 watts and your threshold heart rate is 170 BPM,
ride at 300 watts for 5 minutes, then bring the power up to 320 watts
for 2 minutes, raising your heart rate to 175 BPM, then back off again
to a power of 300 watts again. When your heart rate reaches 170 BPM
again, or when the 3 minutes is up, bring it back up to 320 watts (175
BPM)
Page 301
Anaerobic Capacity: FTP and Sweet Spot
“Begin the 45-minute main set by hitting 100 percent of FTHR
(functional threshold heart rate) in a 5 minute effort to get the legs
ready. Do another 5-minute effort at 80 percent of your FTHR”
(Wait...I thought heart rate was “at best redundant and at worst
misleading”. Seems I should go get my HR strap from the trash!)
Page 285
Cadence Drills:
“Ultimately you are hoping power and heart rate remain low at the
higher cadence so you can become more efficient at harder efforts.
Warm up with cadence in the 90-95 rpm range. Start the main set with
six 1- minute on, 1-minute off fast pedaling cadence efforts. Ride 10
minutes easy, then do two 5-minute efforts, trying to get wattage to
FTP and hold it there. RPE should be 5; keep cadence at 100 rpm.”
Page 287
Tempo: Basic Ride 1
“warm up at a high cadence, 95-105 rpm. Begin a solid 35-minute tempo
effort. Keep the pressure on and have fun – this is a fast but
achievable pace. Keep your cadence in the 90-95 RPM range and make
sure you get into a nice breathing rhythm”
(Wait, didn’t freddie say cadence is a ‘red herring’? Didn’t andy say
‘there’s no reason to measure cadence’ in response to Hunters
assertion that ‘cadence plays a vital role in maximizing power’? Good
thing I haven’t posted my cadence sensors on Ebay yet!)
**
As a point of reference, every single one of the workouts listed in
the 30 page workout section has an accompanying chart showing the
percentage of FTHR one should look for.
These are just a few of the dozen+ examples of how ‘irrelevant’
cadence and heart rate are in fitness and race training. They are so
‘irrelevant’, that andy lists specific cadence numbers and HR metrics
for certain workouts, actually referencing to _both_ heart rate and
cadence in the cadence drill.
So, what have we learned?
We’ve learned that – despite andy and freddies assertions to the
contrary, HR and cadence _are_ in fact valuable training tools.
Freddie likes to toss out the canard that “cadence is a red herring”.
He does this with a simple schoolboy trick of showing that torque can
be derived from power, therefore the constituents of _proper_ torque
measurement that necessarily involve the length and angular velocity
of the torque arm (pedal crank) are rendered moot. The resultant claim
being “cadence is irrelevant”.
Well, as we can see from Coggans book and the research papers I linked
in the iBike pro thread, cadence is _quite_ relevant.
Actually, the red herring here is torque. Freddie makes a cute little
chart with as much useful training information as my 6-year-old
niece’s crayola excursions. This chart tells us absolutely nothing
that power doesn’t. Why? Because deriving torque from power is
completely linear. All freddie is doing by presenting us with derived
torque is to show us that he knows middle-school algebra, xy = z.
If you’ve been following the iBike Power meter thread, you’ll note
that I linked peer-reviewed research to support my positions. Did we
get any peer-reviewed research from andy or freddie supporting their
positions? No. We got a school-boy math trick from freddie and andys
rather condescending dismissal of his colleagues work. Nothing beyond
opinions.
Andy and his pathetic little sycophant freddie have been busy
proffering dubious and unsupportable proposition using net bullying
tactics to drive skeptics away, freddie going so far as to laughably
brag about making people his RBT bitches. Well, that hasn’t worked
with me, and I think I’ve proven quite conclusively how complete full
of shit he is.
I’ve also revealed something very curious about andy – he claims HR
and cadence are completely irrelevant, yet he wrote a book that uses
the two metrics as targeted training metrics. There is some _serious_
dysfunction going on there.
Andy will backpedal his position like he did when I pointed out he
used HRPO as a metric when performing his Dmax test. Freddie will
simply dismiss the whole thing with no supportable evidence (other
than his useless torque plot) and most likely make another mother
joke. I’ll leave it up to them to try to explain to everyone here why
they are right with no supporting evidence other than their own
bloviated sense of self-worth, in the face of mountains of peer-
reviewed evidence to the contrary, including andy’s own published
work.
Personally, I don’t care. Freddie is a useless internet baboon whose
opinion carries as much credibility as...well,.. a baboon. Andy has
some bizarre issues going on, and it’s really sad to see someone with
so much potential that has contributed so much to the field descending
into some dark mental state. It’s also quite ironic, because while
Andy and I have agreed on nothing here, I fully agree with the
philosophy in his book.
So I’ll leave them the last word. I need to attend to my life. I’ve
wasted far too much time in this little internet cesspool. Unlike
certain others who camp out here daily using this venue as an outlet
to vent their frustrations over their empty vapid lives, I actually
have a life that doesn’t require validation by winning newsgroup
arguments. I’ll be riding my bike for the next three days. I’m
guessing that will be more than freddie has done this year. I really
see no use in further participation here.
Clive George
Brad Anders
take. Andy's right and you're wrong, and the fact that he's an expert
and has made you look like a dimwit has pissed you off. I'm pretty
sure that's what nearly everyone else thinks, too.
thanks,
Brad Anders
Fred on a stick
[snip]
Dumbass,
Nice meltdown.
Come on back to rbr the next time you have a little problem with basic
arithmetic. No, no, not because we'll help, it's cuz we can always use the
entertainment.
Andre Jute
> So I’ll leave them the last word. I need to attend to my life. I’ve
> wasted far too much time in this little internet cesspool. Unlike
> certain others who camp out here daily using this venue as an outlet
> to vent their frustrations over their empty vapid lives, I actually
> have a life that doesn’t require validation by winning newsgroup
> arguments. I’ll be riding my bike for the next three days. I’m
> guessing that will be more than freddie has done this year. I really
> see no use in further participation here.
Another uppity anonymous ankle-nipper whines because he got stepped on
by bigger men.
Run, rabbit, run.
Andre Jute
Never more brutal than he has to be -- Nelson Mandela
Mike Jacoubowsky
to be a dick when he posts on those forums.”
Near as I can tell, you wasted a ton of your time (and those of us who read
your post) just so we could see you rationalize that quote? He must have
hurt you badly.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"zencycle" <zenc...@bikerider.com> wrote in message
news:75d8a718-dbe8-452e...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
Anton Berlin
and use the proceeds to buy EPO.
It's what every winning cunt in the peloton does and has been doing
for 20 yrs + now.
--D-y
> On Sep 16, 4:59 pm, zencycle <zency...@bikerider.com> wrote:
>
> > So I’ll leave them the last word. I need to attend to my life. I’ve
> > wasted far too much time in this little internet cesspool. Unlike
> > certain others who camp out here daily using this venue as an outlet
> > to vent their frustrations over their empty vapid lives, I actually
> > have a life that doesn’t require validation by winning newsgroup
> > arguments. I’ll be riding my bike for the next three days. I’m
> > guessing that will be more than freddie has done this year. I really
> > see no use in further participation here.
>
> Another uppity anonymous ankle-nipper whines because he got stepped on
> by bigger men.
Who (Coggan) took the high ground throughout, when dealing with
someone who didn't. And took the time to (or try to) straighten
someone out who really really really didn't want to hear it.
"Cesspool, frustrations, empty vapid lives", just grabbing a small
sample there. Stinky.
What can I say, I'm certified dinosaur old-school and today is the
first time I've ever wanted to go get a power meter <g>.
(the <g> is intended to indicate an ironic statement that nevertheless
applauds the content-- and tone-- of the posts I read)
--D-y
TheCoz
Power Cranks. Get with the program.
Coz
Tom_A
Logic isn't your strong suit, huh?
William Fred
news:kr2dnTnfFd2fwg_R...@earthlink.com:
> “Coggan is perceived as God by many in our field, but he appears
> to be a dick when he posts on those forums.”
>
> Near as I can tell, you wasted a ton of your time (and those of us
> who read your post) just so we could see you rationalize that quote?
> He must have hurt you badly.
You left off "bro." See that doesn't happen again.
Thanks.
--
Bill Fred
William Fred
11741c...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com:
> “Coggan is perceived as God by many in our field, but he appears
> to be a dick when he posts on those forums.”
You mean "... appears to be a dirty cocksucker when ..." I think. When
posting to a newsgroup, it's important to use the accepted practices of
that newsgroup and most of us only respond to posts and participate in
threads where "dirty cocksucker" is used multiple times. Unless LANCE!
and doping is involved, then it isn't necessary. The use of "dirty
cocksucker" I mean.
--
Bill Fred
Trying to make "dirty cocksucker" the "dumbass" for the 2010's
Andy Coggan
> Andy Coggan says “heart rate is at best redundant and at worst
> misleading”.
> Freddie says “cadence is a red herring”.
>
> Andy agrees with freddie on cadence, freddie agrees with andy on heart
> rate.
>
> I had never heard of Andy Coggan before I poked my head in here a
> couple of weeks ago. I had to do a little research; I found that he
> wrote a book.
And a few other things. ;-)
> I asked a few friends of mine if they had ever heard of
> him. One of them is a coach with a PhD in exercise physiology, and
> another is in grad school for the same discipline. The PhD said he
> read the book and it was pretty good. The post grad said (quoting
> here) “Coggan is perceived as God by many in our field, but he appears
> to be a dick when he posts on those forums.”
So I gotta ask: what does this person have to say about you/your
posting style?
No, you've learned that *Hunter* likes to specify/monitor/manipulate
heart rate and cadence when training people...something that I don't
see as valuable.
> Freddie likes to toss out the canard that “cadence is a red herring”.
> He does this with a simple schoolboy trick of showing that torque can
> be derived from power, therefore the constituents of _proper_ torque
> measurement that necessarily involve the length and angular velocity
> of the torque arm (pedal crank) are rendered moot. The resultant claim
> being “cadence is irrelevant”.
>
> Well, as we can see from Coggans book and the research papers I linked
> in the iBike pro thread, cadence is _quite_ relevant.
>
> Actually, the red herring here is torque. Freddie makes a cute little
> chart with as much useful training information as my 6-year-old
> niece’s crayola excursions. This chart tells us absolutely nothing
> that power doesn’t. Why? Because deriving torque from power is
> completely linear. All freddie is doing by presenting us with derived
> torque is to show us that he knows middle-school algebra, xy = z.
>
> If you’ve been following the iBike Power meter thread, you’ll note
> that I linked peer-reviewed research to support my positions.
You put forth two articles, the data in neither one of which supports
the authors' conclusions.
> Did we
> get any peer-reviewed research from andy or freddie supporting their
> positions? No.
My position is based upon far too many articles to post (along w/ >30
y as a racing cyclist at up to the cat. 1 level, etc.). Just to show
you that it isn't just my opinion, though, here's a round-table
discussion of the value of monitoring heart rate by some well-
recognized authorities:
http://www.gssiweb.com/Article_Detail.aspx?articleid=55&level=4&topic=5
Note that of the four, only the late Ed Burke put stock in the use of
heart rate monitors...Drs. Coyle, Maughan, and Daniels did not.
(The list of references will lead people to original research if they
are interested, although it is a bit dated now.)
> We got a school-boy math trick from freddie and andys
> rather condescending dismissal of his colleagues work. Nothing beyond
> opinions.
>
> Andy and his pathetic little sycophant freddie have been busy
> proffering dubious and unsupportable proposition using net bullying
> tactics to drive skeptics away, freddie going so far as to laughably
> brag about making people his RBT bitches. Well, that hasn’t worked
> with me, and I think I’ve proven quite conclusively how complete full
> of shit he is.
>
> I’ve also revealed something very curious about andy – he claims HR
> and cadence are completely irrelevant, yet he wrote a book that uses
> the two metrics as targeted training metrics. There is some _serious_
> dysfunction going on there.
>
> Andy will backpedal his position like he did when I pointed out he
> used HRPO as a metric when performing his Dmax test.
No back-pedaling here: IMHO, if you know your power (and your
perceived exertion, which doesn't require any instrumentation other
than what you are born with), then heart rate data are at best
redundant and at worst misleading.
Moreover, I agree with Robert that "cadence is a red herring", in the
sense that there is no value in deliberately manipulating your cadence
(unless of course you are preparing for an event where you will be
forced to pedal at significantly higher or lower cadence than you'd
prefer...you know, specificity principle and all).
> Freddie will
> simply dismiss the whole thing with no supportable evidence (other
> than his useless torque plot) and most likely make another mother
> joke. I’ll leave it up to them to try to explain to everyone here why
> they are right with no supporting evidence other than their own
> bloviated sense of self-worth, in the face of mountains of peer-
> reviewed evidence to the contrary, including andy’s own published
> work.
>
> Personally, I don’t care. Freddie is a useless internet baboon whose
> opinion carries as much credibility as...well,.. a baboon. Andy has
> some bizarre issues going on, and it’s really sad to see someone with
> so much potential that has contributed so much to the field descending
> into some dark mental state. It’s also quite ironic, because while
> Andy and I have agreed on nothing here, I fully agree with the
> philosophy in his book.
>
> So I’ll leave them the last word. I need to attend to my life. I’ve
> wasted far too much time in this little internet cesspool. Unlike
> certain others who camp out here daily using this venue as an outlet
> to vent their frustrations over their empty vapid lives, I actually
> have a life that doesn’t require validation by winning newsgroup
> arguments. I’ll be riding my bike for the next three days. I’m
> guessing that will be more than freddie has done this year. I really
> see no use in further participation here.
Andy Coggan
Anton Berlin
Coyle is that fuckwit that guzzled and gargled the uniballer. I
wouldn't bother using him as a reference.
C'mon AC you're only dragging yourself down hanging out with whores
like Coyle.
Andy Coggan
According to some (e.g., zencycle's post grad friend), I'm only
dragging myself down by hanging out on forums such as this one.
Andy Coggan
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> He must have hurt you badly.
William Fred wrote:
> You left off "bro." See that doesn't happen again.
Memes suffer from entropy just like everything else.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> [snip]
Fred on a stick wrote:
> Nice meltdown.
He's your bitch, now entertain us and make him melt down like Bruce did.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> You mean "... appears to be a dirty cocksucker when ..." I think. When
> posting to a newsgroup, it's important to use the accepted practices of
> that newsgroup and most of us only respond to posts and participate in
> threads where "dirty cocksucker" is used multiple times. Unless LANCE!
> and doping is involved, then it isn't necessary. The use of "dirty
> cocksucker" I mean.
Lafferty would say its implied.
--D-y
Can you combine Power Cranks and a power meter?
--D=y
Beloved Fred No. 1
> Can you combine Power Cranks and a power meter?
I prefer EPO and Viagra.
Tim McNamara
<f7e242c0-1139-4b52...@h25g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 16, 4:59 pm, zencycle <zency...@bikerider.com> wrote:
>
> > So Išll leave them the last word. I need to attend to my life. Išve
> > wasted far too much time in this little internet cesspool. Unlike
> > certain others who camp out here daily using this venue as an
> > outlet to vent their frustrations over their empty vapid lives, I
> > actually have a life that doesnšt require validation by winning
> > newsgroup arguments. Išll be riding my bike for the next three
> > days. Išm guessing that will be more than freddie has done this
> > year. I really see no use in further participation here.
>
> Another uppity anonymous ankle-nipper whines because he got stepped
> on by bigger men.
You would know all about being an anonymous ankle-nipper whining when
you get stepped on, since you've had so much practice. Gotta say,
"Andre Jute," your inability to comprehend irony does make me laugh
sometimes.
--
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo.
Anton Berlin
> According to some (e.g., zencycle's post grad friend), I'm only
> dragging myself down by hanging out on forums such as this one.
>
> Andy Coggan
Well that too of course.
Andre Jute
> On Sep 16, 12:52 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 4:59 pm, zencycle <zency...@bikerider.com> wrote:
>
> > > So I’ll leave them the last word. I need to attend to my life. I’ve
> > > wasted far too much time in this little internet cesspool. Unlike
> > > certain others who camp out here daily using this venue as an outlet
> > > to vent their frustrations over their empty vapid lives, I actually
> > > have a life that doesn’t require validation by winning newsgroup
> > > arguments. I’ll be riding my bike for the next three days. I’m
> > > guessing that will be more than freddie has done this year. I really
> > > see no use in further participation here.
>
> > Another uppity anonymous ankle-nipper whines because he got stepped on
> > by bigger men.
>
> Who (Coggan) took the high ground throughout, when dealing with
> someone who didn't. And took the time to (or try to) straighten
> someone out who really really really didn't want to hear it.
I'm generally against appeals to authority, including mine; in fact
I'm a dangerous iconoclast certified as a revolutionary by a sovereign
government sending assassins to shut me up. All the same, I get very
tired of the mickey mouse jerkoffs on the newsgroup whose only moment
in the limelight all their lives will be when they are rude to someone
like Coggan, or Jobst, or me. You meet this scum floating on the net
all the time, their entire purpose apparently to score trivial points
off their betters. I'm sure they can't be the majority, but sometimes
(and on RBT often) they're so loud they sound like a majority.
> "Cesspool, frustrations, empty vapid lives", just grabbing a small
> sample there. Stinky.
Looks like "zen" is projecting his own discontent onto us. Very odd
that someone who chooses the anonym "zencycle" should be so angry all
the time.
> What can I say, I'm certified dinosaur old-school and today is the
> first time I've ever wanted to go get a power meter <g>.
Duh. I don't even know what a power meter is. And don't tell me -- I'd
rather not discover I don't produce enough pedaling power to measure!
> (the <g> is intended to indicate an ironic statement that nevertheless
> applauds the content-- and tone-- of the posts I read)
Read that again and you'll see why the grimmer railroad minds on RBT
consider you a smart alec.
Andre Jute
Let the utopia of reason roll into even cycling
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:Xns9DF589F53...@130.133.4.11...
Thanks, won't happen again.
Michael Press
<cef0b9c5-2e2d-4208...@m16g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
Looks to me that Andre Jute applauds the cogent
arguments used to refute zencycle's assertions.
Do you take Jute otherwise?
--
Michael Press
--D-y
(D-y wrote):
> > What can I say, I'm certified dinosaur old-school and today is the
> > first time I've ever wanted to go get a power meter <g>.
>
(AJ replied):
> Duh. I don't even know what a power meter is. And don't tell me -- I'd
> rather not discover I don't produce enough pedaling power to measure!
Well, I know AC explained what it is by what it does, so I think you
are being ironic and self-deprecatory in an effort to inject a bit of
humor.
> > (the <g> is intended to indicate an ironic statement that nevertheless
> > applauds the content-- and tone-- of the posts I read)
>
> Read that again and you'll see why the grimmer railroad minds on RBT
> consider you a smart alec.
Me? A smart alec? Go on!
--D-y
Andre Jute
Not to mention a loose cannon on deck. (According to my literary
protege, "It's called the poop deck because the loose cannon ran over
the captain's toes, with predictable consequences.") -- AJ
--D-y
> On Sep 17, 3:36 am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 6:16 pm, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > (the <g> is intended to indicate an ironic statement that nevertheless
> > > > applauds the content-- and tone-- of the posts I read)
>
> > > Read that again and you'll see why the grimmer railroad minds on RBT
> > > consider you a smart alec.
>
> > Me? A smart alec? Go on!
> > --D-y
>
> Not to mention a loose cannon on deck.
Go on, you're just trying to turn my head...
(but I do like it)
(thank you)
--D-y
Michael Press
<75d8a718-dbe8-452e...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
zencycle <zenc...@bikerider.com> wrote:
[elided for the sake of brevity]
I was not going to read that but now am happy to have read it.
Enjoyed it thoroughly. May we have more?
--
Michael Press
Phil H
> In article
> <75d8a718-dbe8-452e-8587-11741cc35...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
>
> zencycle <zency...@bikerider.com> wrote:
>
> [elided for the sake of brevity]
>
> I was not going to read that but now am happy to have read it.
> Enjoyed it thoroughly. May we have more?
>
> --
> Michael Press
Interesting situation; co-authors whose philosophies of how to measure
exertion are quite different. What does that tell you? Powermeter,
speedometer, HR, perceived exertion.....they can all successfully work
as measures for gauging how hard the workout is/was. Anyone seriously
training will know exactly how fast to go up the hill they've climbed
a 1000 times for an easy or hard workout.....taking into account the
wind direction and how much water they have in their water bottle :)
Phil H
Andy Coggan
> On Sep 17, 11:55 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <75d8a718-dbe8-452e-8587-11741cc35...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > zencycle <zency...@bikerider.com> wrote:
>
> > [elided for the sake of brevity]
>
> > I was not going to read that but now am happy to have read it.
> > Enjoyed it thoroughly. May we have more?
>
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> Interesting situation; co-authors whose philosophies of how to measure
> exertion are quite different.
Not *that* different. Hunter would be the first to tell you that he
views power as being primary*...the only thing we might different upon
is whether secondary measures such as heart rate or cadence are ever
worth monitoring, or not.
*Pro Cycling recently described him as "the grand daddy of power-based
training".
Andy Coggan
MikeWhy
> Powermeter,
> speedometer, HR, perceived exertion.....they can all successfully work
> as measures for gauging how hard the workout is/was. Anyone seriously
> training will know exactly how fast to go up the hill they've climbed
> a 1000 times for an easy or hard workout.....taking into account the
> wind direction and how much water they have in their water bottle :)
> Phil H
Maybe. Mebbe I'm just not as perceptive as y'all. Or maybe I just haven't
done the same hills 1000 times. In variable winds and every kind of
condition. I will say that watts is watts no matter what the road gradient
or wind. You can't psyche me when I know what the effort is costing and what
I have left in the tank.
Fred on a stick
> here's a round-table
> discussion of the value of monitoring heart rate by some well-
> recognized authorities:
>
> http://www.gssiweb.com/Article_Detail.aspx?articleid=55&level=4&topic=5
>
> Note that of the four, only the late Ed Burke put stock in the use of
> heart rate monitors...
He died of a heart attack while on a ride.
A. Dumas
I guess that's what made him appreciate the HRM.
Dan O
I've never been "seriously training", so FWIW YMMV, but ISTM that
flying by the seat of your pants might be a good way to develop such
perception. Just as - in the final analysis - I trust my own
assessment of my own risk exposure over some study of other people, I
would tend to trust my internal gauges over anything being measured
externally. Again, I'm no "seriously trained" athlete, so I would be
well advised to carry a little reserve fuel around with me all the
time, and do ;-) I've gone plenty woozy at times, but never completely
bonked, and have always believed - as I've quoted Manny from "Runaway
Train" saying before - "You don't know what you can do and what you
can't." IOW, if I would not presume to know what's really left in the
tank, why in the world would I expect some instrument to tell me?
Fred on a stick
> I've never been "seriously training", so FWIW YMMV, but ISTM that
> flying by the seat of your pants might be a good way to develop such
> perception. Just as - in the final analysis - I trust my own
> assessment of my own risk exposure over some study of other people, I
> would tend to trust my internal gauges over anything being measured
> externally. Again, I'm no "seriously trained" athlete, so I would be
> well advised to carry a little reserve fuel around with me all the
> time, and do ;-) I've gone plenty woozy at times, but never completely
> bonked, and have always believed - as I've quoted Manny from "Runaway
> Train" saying before - "You don't know what you can do and what you
> can't." IOW, if I would not presume to know what's really left in the
> tank, why in the world would I expect some instrument to tell me?
One of the ways a PM helped me is in calibrating my RPE. My RPE is now
more reliable that it was before. Perhaps ironically, this means I can
sometimes do without the PM, which often happens when I travel and ride
on unfamiliar routes. I don't bother with a HRM anymore, even when I
don't have a PM -- I just ride by RPE.
A. Dumas
> more reliable that it was before. Perhaps ironically, this means I can
> sometimes do without the PM, which often happens when I travel and ride
> on unfamiliar routes. I don't bother with a HRM anymore, even when I
> don't have a PM -- I just ride by RPE.
So what you are saying is, using more meters makes one use less meters.
Well, that wasn't actually a funny observation because I'm sure that is
exactly how it works, yes. Back in the day I spent a lot of time
calibrating RPE using PM+HRM on rowing machines and HRM in the boat.
Later, on the bike, I have always been more comfortable using no
measuring devices.
Fred on a stick
>
> So what you are saying is, using more meters makes one use less meters.
>
> Well, that wasn't actually a funny observation because I'm sure that is
> exactly how it works, yes. Back in the day I spent a lot of time
> calibrating RPE using PM+HRM on rowing machines and HRM in the boat.
> Later, on the bike, I have always been more comfortable using no
> measuring devices.
Since I have power I get the comfort of not having to use a HRM belt
while still getting useful data. And, of course, if you have power (and
a nicely calibrated sense of RPE) then HR is at best redundant and at
worst misleading.