Real Racomg
Tom Kunich
you who are just showing that you're alive?
Ryan Cousineau
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> How many of you are here for the conversation about real racing and those of
> you who are just showing that you're alive?
I'm here for conversation about amateur racing.
Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
I think, seriously, I may have executed 20 stupid "attacks" in a 70 km
race. No worry, it's a training race, not a serious race. I needed the
exercise.
OTOH, I was still game for the finish, but got caught behind the only
crash of the day, with 5 km to go. Race over, go home.
Weather: overcast to start, wet to finish.
Bike racing is wonderful.
Regarding this race, I've got a tactical question for the cold and timid
souls here:
I'm a pretty good sprinter, my teammate is a pretty good TTist. We want
to exploit these skills for attacks.
Here's my guess as to ideal Cat4 strategy: after the race warms up, I
jump off the front as fast as my friend can comfortably draft me (45
km/h?) and try to hold that speed for as long as I can without blowing
up completely when it comes to the next step.
Next step: I pull off, look back. If we're 10m clear of the pack, and
haven't dragged more than 5-6 riders with us, teammate takes over for
the next leg. When I recover, I do short pulls, he does long ones, try
to hold on until the end of the race.
If I haven't made a gap over the main pack, I call it off. Recover,
lather, rinse, repeat.
Sound about right? Variant: if he likes his chances, he can try to go
solo after my attack fails.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Fred K. Gringioni
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcou...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rcousine-299B53.23134811032010@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> In article <ut2dncnm8baASwTW...@earthlink.com>,
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> How many of you are here for the conversation about real racing and those
>> of
>> you who are just showing that you're alive?
>
> I'm here for conversation about amateur racing.
>
> Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
> a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
<snip>
Dumbass -
OWN THE PODIUM!
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
Wilma Munro
> Dumbass -
> OWN THE PODIUM!
Dumbass,
I'd rather own the podium girl.
Wilma Munro
> How many of you are here for the conversation about real racing and
> those of you who are just showing that you're alive?
This is the official Turing test implementation site. And you failed.
Fred Flintstein
> Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
> a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
>
> I think, seriously, I may have executed 20 stupid "attacks" in a 70 km
> race. No worry, it's a training race, not a serious race. I needed the
> exercise.
Dumbass,
I have it on good authority that you are still going to
be shit in July.
As for the tactics question, unless your friend has the
horsepower to ride away from all the people that might
chase, ability as a time trialist is of no value. We
are talking Cat 4s, right?
Fred Flintstein
Tom Kunich
Your strategy seems sound except it would probably work a little better if
you jump just as the pack catches someone else's try.
Scott
> In article <ut2dncnm8baASwTWnZ2dnUVZ_r-dn...@earthlink.com>,
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
A 10m gap? Nope, won't work.
Take Tom's idea about countering, and instead of attacking violently
off the front, just gradually roll off the front as the pack slows
naturally. Don't make a big deal of it, don't get out of the saddle.
If you're lucky, you could easily find yourself 100m or so off the
front before anyone even notices. Only once you've gotten clear, ramp
up the speed gradually.
Or, if you're able to recover well, be THAT guy who just keeps
attacking until everyone is about to get pissed. But, don't attack
all out. Do your attacks at about 80% effort so you don't blow up,
but knowing full well you're going to get chased and caught. If
you're lucky, after 4 or 5 of these 'attacks' someone will try a
counter. When that person is caught, try to roll off the front
gradually and don't look back, just peek under your shoulder to see if
the pack is responding. There's a really good chance that the folks
in the front of the pack will just let you go, thinking 'eh, it's just
Ryan, he'll be right back' since you've already attacked/been brought
back a half dozen times or so. So, when you find yourself dangling
off the front and eventually get about 200-250m off the front, ramp up
the speed. By the time they notice you're up the road, there's a
chance they'll revert to "I'm not chasing him, you chase him". It
helps if you have teammates in the group that no one wants to drag
along so that they win the sprint anyway.
I'm just saying.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> I'm a pretty good sprinter, my teammate is a pretty good TTist. We want
> to exploit these skills for attacks.
<whole bunch of convoluted dumbass strategy snipped>
Dumbass -
Let your friend try to get away solo while you sit in and stay fresh
for the sprint. Duh.
-rj
ronaldo_jeremiah
> How many of you are here for the conversation about real racing and those of
> you who are just showing that you're alive?
I'm here mostly to slander, stock, and play grab ass.
If I wanted to discuss real racing, it probably wouldn't be with you.
-rj
Fred K. Gringioni
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ut2dncnm8baASwTW...@earthlink.com...
> How many of you are here for the conversation about real racing and those
> of you who are just showing that you're alive?
Dumbass -
I am only here to call people Dumbass.
Fred Flintstein
What he said.
Seriously, if breakaways rarely win Cat 4 races in BC then
trying to break away is not a smart tactic.
I knew a guy that upgraded to Cat 2 by training only for
sprints. That's all he did, sprints. No distance work at
all. He raced crits and never took a pull. He rode in
circles and then sprinted.
Once he upgraded he was dog meat because all of a sudden
he wasn't at the end anymore to sprint. But he did get his
upgrade.
Or you could try Scott's suggestions, which are to try to
get away in a fashion that no one will chase. But if
sprinting is the card you play then keep your nose out of
the wind.
Fred Flintstein
cur...@the-md-russells.org
Dumbass:
No upgrade for you until you get consistently call two people Dumbass
in one post. If you are going to specialize, show some panache,
Dumbass.
And, no, calling the same person Dumbass in the same post doesn't
count. That's just a neener, neener thing.
I'm here to say stuff my wife doesn't put up with in real life, at
least not when she is within striking distance. Bad jokes, any puns,
personal criticism of LA, off the wing opinions unsupported by fact or
circumstance, that sort of stuff. Now you know why...
FWIW (nothing, coincidentally), I think we stay on topic better than
most groups. There is a general centering around things bicycle
racing, even if I haven't been completely in touch with things since
races began to be won with marques other than Italian, French and
occasionally Brit. What's with this Specialized crap, anyway? Anyone
have a Winner Pro available? What happened to the good stuff?
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
A. Dumas Fred
heather
> I'm a pretty good sprinter, my teammate is a pretty good TTist. We want
> to exploit these skills for attacks.
>
> Here's my guess as to ideal Cat4 strategy: after the race warms up, I
> jump off the front as fast as my friend can comfortably draft me (45
> km/h?) and try to hold that speed for as long as I can without blowing
> up completely when it comes to the next step.
>
> Next step: I pull off, look back. If we're 10m clear of the pack, and
> haven't dragged more than 5-6 riders with us, teammate takes over for
> the next leg. When I recover, I do short pulls, he does long ones, try
> to hold on until the end of the race.
Use your sprint speed to get a gap, use your teammate's tt ability to
hold it, leading to an increased chance for you to win the sprint out of
a smaller group than then entire cat 4 peloton? (Or am I reading your
intentions wrong?) It at least sounds fun :)
h
heather
> Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
> a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
>
>
I forgot to ask this in my last reply to you, but maybe you will
understand my pain here, Sausage Casing- Why does it take an entire week
to lose a single pound, but only one day to gain it back??
h
Fred K. Gringioni
"Fred Flintstein" <bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
news:wfCdna1m7pEZ7wfW...@giganews.com...
>
> I knew a guy that upgraded to Cat 2 by training only for
> sprints. That's all he did, sprints. No distance work at
> all. He raced crits and never took a pull. He rode in
> circles and then sprinted.
>
> Once he upgraded he was dog meat because all of a sudden
> he wasn't at the end anymore to sprint. But he did get his
> upgrade.
<snip>
Dumbass -
Too bad for him.
The real fun in local Cat 1/2 races is trying to read the race correctly and
get into the right breakaway.
Fred K. Gringioni
<snip>
Dumbass -
As an aside, what is "Racomg"?
Fred K. Gringioni
"Fred K. Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hne1lm$tqg$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:ut2dncnm8baASwTW...@earthlink.com...
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> As an aside, what is "Racomg"?
How about "Rbr Assholes Cry Oh My God!"
Wilma Munro
> Sausage Casing- Why does it take an entire week
> to lose a single pound, but only one day to gain it back??
Something to do with entropy perhaps.
K. Fred Gauss
> How many of you are here for the conversation about real racing and
> those of you who are just showing that you're alive?
>
>
I'm here in search of the love, validation and admiration that I can
never find in real life.
Would you be my friend?
Wilma Munro
> Would you be my friend?
Wouldn't you rather have a political argument with a naked Kunich ?
Ryan Cousineau
Fred Flintstein <bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
He's a pretty good TTist, and he rides a pretty aero bike. He probably
could solo most of the race at race-pace, especially with a helper or
two.
Ryan Cousineau
<d212b619-ca2b-4c05...@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Awesome.
Ryan Cousineau
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
The problem with Cat 4 is everyone is countering all the time. Because
so much of the pack wants to get off the front without doing any work,
every attack generates a counter from the front half of the pack. It's
gruesome stuff.
I also think the riders (myself included) don't attack with enough
commitment.
Scott
> In article <IsKdnd35GOqH1wfWnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@giganews.com>,
> Fred Flintstein <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
> > > a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
>
> > > I think, seriously, I may have executed 20 stupid "attacks" in a 70 km
> > > race. No worry, it's a training race, not a serious race. I needed the
> > > exercise.
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > I have it on good authority that you are still going to
> > be shit in July.
>
> > As for the tactics question, unless your friend has the
> > horsepower to ride away from all the people that might
> > chase, ability as a time trialist is of no value. We
> > are talking Cat 4s, right?
>
> > Fred Flintstein
>
> He's a pretty good TTist, and he rides a pretty aero bike. He probably
> could solo most of the race at race-pace, especially with a helper or
> two.
>
> --
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Well, then, it wouldn't be a solo then, now would it?
Fred K. Gringioni
> In article <e6WdnU4ABeysyQfW...@earthlink.com>,
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> The problem with Cat 4 is that everyone is attacking all the time.
>>
>> Your strategy seems sound except it would probably work a little better
>> if
>> you jump just as the pack catches someone else's try.
>
> The problem with Cat 4 is everyone is countering all the time.
<snip>
Dumbass -
Cat 4s counter 40% of the time and the rest of the time they're chasing,
even if no one's off the front.
Ryan Cousineau
heather <cle...@comcast.net> wrote:
It doesn't work that way for guys. I've had to make a real effort to be
as fat as I am.
But in the general case, it's because we're naturally predisposed to
eat, not to starve.
We're just in an era of unusually abundant food, and minimal physical
labor.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
Ryan Cousineau
heather <cle...@comcast.net> wrote:
More or less. These are just training races, but yes, the goal is for
both of us to work on coordinated tactics, and actually generate that
rarest of Cat4 entities, a working breakaway.
And yeah, since my teammate is such a flatiron, I can totally outsprint
him :).
Ryan Cousineau
Fred Flintstein <bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
This isn't crazy advice. When I'm in shape, I'm a pretty devastating Cat
4 sprinter (...). But this is a training race series at the start of the
season. To the extent I care about any races throughout the year, it
will be mid-summer crits and end-of-year CX.
And since I already know how to win a sprint (get to the front, be
faster), and since a race that stays together the whole way at 39 km/h
is both boring and sketchy, I want to work on my moves.
Fred K. Gringioni
>
> More or less. These are just training races, but yes, the goal is for
> both of us to work on coordinated tactics, and actually generate that
> rarest of Cat4 entities, a working breakaway.
Dumbass -
Just make sure that when you attack it's at a moment when nearly everyone is
tired and wants to recover.
Scott
wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Which, given the duration of the typical cat 4 race, means sometime
after everyone's third or fourth race of the day. Who gets tired
during a cat 4 crit?
Wilma Munro
>> He's a pretty good TTist, and he rides a pretty aero bike. He probably
>> could solo most of the race at race-pace, especially with a helper or
>> two.
Scott wrote:
> Well, then, it wouldn't be a solo then, now would it?
Unless its chemical help.
Wilma Munro
> Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
> a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
>
> race. No worry, it's a training race, not a serious race. I needed the
> exercise.
Don't you have any hills in Vancouver ? Alternately you could get Amit
to organize your race and bring his auto-erecting recessed cones with
him to create an artificial selection.I expect he'll even offer free
kool aid to the survivors after the race.
A. Dumas Fred
> Who gets tired
> during a cat 4 crit?
Cat 4s. Asshole.
Fred Flintstein
> He's a pretty good TTist, and he rides a pretty aero bike. He probably
> could solo most of the race at race-pace, especially with a helper or
> two.
Dumbass,
Race pace is variable. The definition of race pace is just
a little bit faster than the meathead time trialist off the
front is going.
If you want to work tactics with this guy then practice lead
outs. Very few Cat 4s can execute a lead out. Most are too
stupid to let the guy in front know if they missed or fell
off the wheel and the wrong guy is being delivered to the
win.
Fred Flintstein
Scott
Ouch. That one must have really struck close to home. You're not an
out-of-shape cat 4, are you?
William Fred
>
> And since I already know how to win a sprint (get to the front, be
> faster), and since a race that stays together the whole way at 39 km/h
> is both boring and sketchy, I want to work on my moves.
>
Try the one where you yawn and stretch, then end up with your arm around
her.
--
Bill Asher
Wilma Munro
>> Cat 4s. Asshole.
Scott wrote:
> Ouch. That one must have really struck close to home. You're not an
> out-of-shape cat 4, are you?
Insert meme here.
Ryan Cousineau
Wilma Munro <no...@mailinator.com> wrote:
With this post, the group has gone from meta to meta-meta.
David Padgham
add "bro" to the end, and you've got a real meme there bro.
Michael Press
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> > Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
> > a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
> >
> >
>
> I forgot to ask this in my last reply to you, but maybe you will
> understand my pain here, Sausage Casing- Why does it take an entire week
> to lose a single pound, but only one day to gain it back??
You did not lose that pound did you?
Only put it in the closet for future use.
Wilma Munro
>>> Started my racing season last week. When you look like a sausage casing,
>>> a parcours with 3m of gain per 10 km lap is exactly what is on order.
heather wrote:
>> I forgot to ask this in my last reply to you, but maybe you will
>> understand my pain here, Sausage Casing- Why does it take an entire week
>> to lose a single pound, but only one day to gain it back??
Michael Press wrote:
> You did not lose that pound did you?
> Only put it in the closet for future use.
The opposite of having a skeleton in the closet.