If your team dopes to help you win is that cheating?
i, Fred
Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
that constitute cheating?
"Professional cycling in events such
as Le Tour de France is a team sport.
No matter how physically gifted a man
might be, no matter how hard he trains,
no matter how fiercely determined he
is to succeed, he can't win a
multistage race of Le Tour's magnitude
(typically covering more than 2,100
miles in just three-and-a-half weeks
with nearly 100,000 vertical feet of
climbing along the way) without the
aid of an exceptionally talented team.
Given that absolute reliance on your
teammates then, was it not cheating
for Armstrong to rely on those who
used PEDs on his behalf to bring home
that coveted collection of yellow
jerseys? If PEDs aren't coursing
through your own legs, but rather
through the arteries and veins of
those who are pacing attack groups
for you and reeling in breakaways
for your benefit, doesn't that help
you win just the same as if you
injected the drugs into your own body?
If anything it is far more ignoble to
rely on others to take the risks of
infamy and ill health corresponding
with illegal drug use rather than do
them yourself in order to capture a
trophy you will reap the most reward
from. If nothing else, it's cowardly."
Here's the rest:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20100611/COLUMN/100619968/1021&parentprofile=1061
i, Fred
K. Fred Gauss
1. It stretches credibility past the breaking point to suggest that
Armstrong forced his team mates to dope while staying clean himself.
2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.
Fred on a stick
> 2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
> forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.
"... a l'insu de mon plein gre."
Fred on a stick
> http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20100611/COLUMN/100619968/1021&parentprofile=1061
Dumbass,
Gee, it's too bad nobody's ever come up with a suggestion on how to deal
with that.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
wrote:
>2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
>forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.
Do some pity microdosing first, then go for the gold. Feel sorry for
Tugboat, then widen the circle.
I'm having problems with the whole concept that Floyd ever showed any
signs of a 'will'. He's like any inner city youth that drifted into a
life of drugs and crime, except they'd popped him long ago. rbr
relevance: They woulda probably called him a dumbass as they walked
away...
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
Fred Flintstein
> 2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
> forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.
Feel sorry for poor Jan Ullrich, who had a clean team(*)
and didn't win.
Fred Flintstein
(*) Remember that Zabel was not doping when he was winning
all those green jerseys. When he confessed it was only to
stuff before that.
Steve Freides
> Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he
> basically states that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at
> least four TdFs. Doesn't that constitute cheating?
I think this is one of those, "If a tree falls in the forest but no one
hears it ..." sort of things.
-S-
Scott
> Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
> that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
> that constitute cheating?
>
> "Professional cycling in events such
> as Le Tour de France is a team sport.
> No matter how physically gifted a man
> might be, no matter how hard he trains,
> no matter how fiercely determined he
> is to succeed, he can't win a
> multistage race of Le Tour's magnitude
> (typically covering more than 2,100
> miles in just three-and-a-half weeks
> with nearly 100,000 vertical feet of
> climbing along the way) without the
> aid of an exceptionally talented team.
>
>
The argument makes no sense in that it is based on a faulty premise.
There have been times when a racer wins with a mediocre, if not poor,
team. For example, it's been said that Lemond won one TdF because of
his team, once with a weak team, and once in spite of his team. And
that's only looking at his actual wins. His virtual wins are another
story.
Amit Ghosh
> Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
> that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
> that constitute cheating?
dumbass,
the argument is an old one (also under UCI rules cycling is only a
team sport). but cheating is only what is defined in the rules. it
might not be fair but it isn't cheating if your teammate dopes.
Anton Berlin
>
> i, Fred
Lance is not that big of a coward to let ONLY his teammates dope, he's
a much smaller coward that would also dope.
K. Fred Gauss
And Ullrich wasn't banned, he just felt like retiring. And Vino is
Russian, so he gets a pass.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<hendric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The argument makes no sense in that it is based on a faulty premise.
>There have been times when a racer wins with a mediocre, if not poor,
>team. For example, it's been said that Lemond won one TdF because of
>his team, once with a weak team, and once in spite of his team. And
>that's only looking at his actual wins. His virtual wins are another
>story.
Weak teams are an aid when it comes to virtual wins. And Lemond (I
think) claims one virtual win 'in spite of his team', but it has no LA
relevancy, other than getting him closer to the magic 7.
And did Lemond start hating LA when LA shook Hinault's hand? Have to
wonder. There's some bitterness there.
Fred Flintstein
Fockstick,
If you gave the average dumbass a choice between your idea
and my idea of summary execution, my idea would win.
We like our bread and circuses.
Fred Flintstein
K. Fred Gauss
My idea involves executing average and below average dumbasses. I can't
take all the credit, my idea was inspired by the writings of Ayn Rand.
Betty
> And Ullrich wasn't banned, he just felt like retiring. And Vino is
> Russian, so he gets a pass.
A Kazakh pass is like a rain cheque.