"Hi Betsy, it's Stephanie...."
Magilla Gorilla
Amit Ghosh
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/09/18/2010-09-18_a...
Ah ha ha ha!
What a fucking headcase.
--D-y
Novitsky is producing a few "headcases" too-- not via serious medical
issues involving offspring, employer-underwritten health insurance,
car crashes, personal medication and so on, but involving a sports
arena where, due to bad rules and bad enforcement, "they were all
doping" and basically, no one really gives a rat's ass except for
(IMHO) people who might not have their heads screwed on quite tight
(like Novitsky, noted for a virulent hatred of Barry Bonds, just as an
example).
I mean to say, that in said arena where many/most had "programs" that
had to be paid for somehow, this all, no matter what Lance Armstrong
has actually done, comes off as a crusade based on personal dislikes
for the man. Not saying that excuses LA, either, but why so ready to
condemn the "little fish" who may not have cooperated voluntarily.
I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
hater of Lance Armstrong.
The exact timing of these voicemails, I don't know and excuse me if I
don't look; however, I have sympathy for SM as her nuts were in a vice
about as bad as anyone else's "in front", and now the vultures are
hoping she gets thrown in jail-- hey, maybe her kid can go ahead and
suffer and die while mom is in jail and he can't get insurance
coverage. She should have stood up to Lance and Oakley and lost her
insurance coverage long ago, right?
--D-y
Kurgan Gringioni
"--D-y" <dusto...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
:: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
:: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
:: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
:: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
:: hater of Lance Armstrong.
Dumbass -
If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Magilla Gorilla
First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. You should never really
read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
person makes that intent clear. She didn't.
Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' The guy was never really in danger
of dying. That's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
be superhuman. Ernie Lechuga had a testicle removed from his satchel and he
didn't die either. Did he cheat death too? Nobody really dies from testicle
cancer. That's right up there with jeff Gordon claiming in divorce papers
that being a NASCAR driver is a really dangerous thing when statistics say
otherwise.
Third, absent Betsy's revelations, the federal case and pending USADA case
would still be going forward as neither will likely focus on pre-96 doping.
SO Betsy, while entertaining, is really a red herring.
Fourth, Lance made the decision to reveal information to people with whom he
had no formal contract to maintain confidentiality. Even if he did, they are
required to tell the truth under subpoena.
Fifth, the people who perjured themselves under oath are committing felonies
because they all have financial motives to lie. Bill Clinton was impeached
because he lied under oath and fined $75,000 by a federal judge. Clinton
was also disbarred. You don't do that shit and then cry about it.
Sixth, Betsy didn't reveal anything personal. The fact that Lance doped and
admitted it in a milieu where he assumed it was confidential, but in reality
wasn't, isn't a compelling argument. If Lance wanted confidentiality he
should have made people sign nondisclosure agreements. Betsy signed on to no
such rider.
Taking steroids actually does kill children and harm many more (especially in
Texas - king of steroid football). So Betsy's argument comes across to me as
more genuine and compelling than a guy who gave himself cancer with steroids
and then claims to the world they should donate to his cancer foundation
because he's such a great role model.
Magilla
BLafferty
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/09/18/2010-09-18_abusvie_voicemails_now_part_of_armstrong_probe.html?page=1
>
Partial transcripts. What is missing?
Carl Sundquist
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
Dumbass,
Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
That's what was life threatening.
Brad Anders
> Taking steroids actually does kill children and harm many more (especially in
> Texas - king of steroid football).
I looked, I couldn't find any examples - can you cite just one case
where a child (i.e. under 18) who took steroids to improve athletic
performance died? I don't deny plenty take them and are possibly
harmed, but I haven't heard of a death connected to it.
Brad Anders
Keith
<carl.su...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sep 18, 7:26 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
>> > :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
>> > :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
>> > :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
>> > :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
>>
>> > Dumbass -
>>
>> > If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
>> > public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
>>
>> > thanks,
>>
>> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>>
>> First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
>> quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. You should never really
>> read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
>> person makes that intent clear. She didn't.
>>
>> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' The guy was never really in danger
>> of dying. That's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
>> be superhuman.
>> Magilla
>
>Dumbass,
>
>Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
>That's what was life threatening.
And the thing is, you can normally never heal from a metastasized
cancer, that makes him a superhuman, or we don't know the whole
story...
That's what my previous research had turned up and I looked it up
again...http://www.howtostopcancer.com/ :
"The 5-year survival rate for metastasized cancer of any origin is
almost ZERO despite what current medical science has to throw at the
problem. Current medicine does a decent job dealing with localized
cancer, but if it metastasizes….its pretty much “game over!"
Wonder why no medical expert has marvelled at Armstrong beating a
metastasized cancer...
I'll start a new thread about that actually.
Doug Anderson
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Carl Sundquist
> <carl.su...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sep 18, 7:26Êpm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> >> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
> >> > :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
> >> > :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
> >> > :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
> >> > :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
> >>
> >> > Dumbass -
> >>
> >> > If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
> >> > public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
> >>
> >> > thanks,
> >>
> >> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> >>
> >> First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
> >> quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. ÊYou should never really
> >> read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
> >> person makes that intent clear. ÊShe didn't.
> >>
> >> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' ÊThe guy was never really in danger
> >> of dying. ÊThat's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
> >> be superhuman.
> >> Magilla
> >
> >Dumbass,
> >
> >Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
> >That's what was life threatening.
>
> And the thing is, you can normally never heal from a metastasized
> cancer, that makes him a superhuman, or we don't know the whole
> story...
>
> That's what my previous research had turned up and I looked it up
> again...http://www.howtostopcancer.com/ :
>
> "The 5-year survival rate for metastasized cancer of any origin is
> almost ZERO despite what current medical science has to throw at the
> problem. Current medicine does a decent job dealing with localized
> cancer, but if it metastasizesÉ.its pretty much Ògame over!"
You must not have read the website you are using as a source for
knowledge. You are quoting a website that is basically an
advertisment (by someone with no indicated medical training, skill, or
knowledge) who is selling his book.
You realizes that this is the opposite of an authority.
He tells you you can have his protocol absolutely free! Then when you
click on the link, he tells you it's "only $37 for a REAL book."
It comes with a moneyback guarantee (you get your $37 back if you die)?
> Wonder why no medical expert has marvelled at Armstrong beating a
> metastasized cancer...
Because medical experts understand that cancer is complicated (both
before and after metastasis) and that there are many different types
of cancer with many different forms and levels of metastasis upon
discovery and with many different prognoses.
> I'll start a new thread about that actually.
Please don't.
Magilla Gorilla
Not so fast amateur oncologist.
The tumors associated with Armstrong's type of cancer are easily removed in
surgery (i.e. not enmeshed within lymph nodes) and respond well to chemotherapy.
Therefore, there was no real danger of Lance dying from this type of cancer.
Lance didn't have lung cancer or pancreatic cancer.
Not only that but Lance's recovery was 100%. Lance has sold people on this near
death thing with cancer. The reality is when you drive down the road in your El
Camino you come within a few feet of death every time a tractor trailer passes you
in the opposite direction. So does that count as being close to death too? Well,
according to Lance, every time you pass a tractor trailer within a few feet and it
doesn't hit you you are escaping death.
The bottom line is either you die or you don't and Lance didn't. So his cancer
was meaningless. And he suffered no injury to his body that would affect his
cycling. So what did he really overcome besides the stupid misconceptions of the
public who bought into this whole PR story hook, line, and sinker. He had a few
minor surgeries and then walked around with an IV pole for a few weeks. That's
it. Riding with a bald head on a stationary bike isn't the horror story that
everyone thinks it was. Levi does it all the time.
LeMond was closer to death when he was shot than Lance. If Lemon Party weren't
treated immediately he likely would have died. Lance was in no such immediate
danger of dying, and nothing from his cancer caused him to lose any performance.
The hardship that Lance overcame was less than what most cyclists have to overcome
by having inferior genetics. Let's see Lance overcome having Lucas Euser's DNA.
Magilla, M.D.
Magilla Gorilla
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT), Carl Sundquist
> <carl.su...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sep 18, 7:26Êpm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> >> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >> > "--D-y" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:c505d34f-3fda-44c1...@k13g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
> >> > On Sep 18, 2:09 pm, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > :: I think there's a timeframe issue here, also-- referring to a time
> >> > :: before Betsy's recent expressions of wonderful heartfelt concern for
> >> > :: The Children, when, in spite of whatever "evidence" existed at the
> >> > :: time regarding LA's guilt, she came off principally as a vindictive
> >> > :: hater of Lance Armstrong.
> >>
> >> > Dumbass -
> >>
> >> > If you want to do something for The Children, first thing to do is make
> >> > public any deathbed confessions you've heard someone make to their doctor.
> >>
> >> > thanks,
> >>
> >> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> >>
> >> First of all, just because Betsy invoked 'the children' thing in a recent
> >> quote...that doesn't mean it's her total motive. ÊYou should never really
> >> read quotes as a total and absolute explanation for anything unless the
> >> person makes that intent clear. ÊShe didn't.
> >>
> >> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' ÊThe guy was never really in danger
> >> of dying. ÊThat's part of the whole Lance Armstrong myth to make him out to
> >> be superhuman.
> >> Magilla
> >
> >Dumbass,
> >
> >Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
> >That's what was life threatening.
>
> And the thing is, you can normally never heal from a metastasized
> cancer, that makes him a superhuman, or we don't know the whole
> story...
>
> That's what my previous research had turned up and I looked it up
> again...http://www.howtostopcancer.com/ :
>
> "The 5-year survival rate for metastasized cancer of any origin is
> almost ZERO despite what current medical science has to throw at the
> problem. Current medicine does a decent job dealing with localized
> cancer, but if it metastasizesÉ.its pretty much Ògame over!"
I can name 10 cyclists who surviced cancer. Most of them are jackasses. Dumb
too.
>
>
> Wonder why no medical expert has marvelled at Armstrong beating a
> metastasized cancer...
Let's see Armstrong beat a metastisized federal doping probe.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Can steroids cause death?
Yes. Steroid-related fatalities occur as a result of suicide, homicide, liver
disease, heart attack, and cancer.
http://dwb4.unl.edu/Chem/CHEM869K/CHEM869KLinks/www.tcada.state.tx.us/research/facts/steroids.html
---------------
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2917133
"In a community like this it's bizarre to have a murder-suicide, especially
involving the death of a 7-year-old," District Attorney Scott Ballard said.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-pro-wrestling_x.htm
------
However,, I will concede that steroids do not really kill children. They fuck up
lives though. So it's more like burglary rather than homicide.
Magilla
Kurgan Gringioni
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C9611E3...@sandiegozoo.org...
: >
: > Armstrong's testicular cancer metastasized to his lungs and brain.
: > That's what was life threatening.
:
: Not so fast amateur oncologist.
:
: The tumors associated with Armstrong's type of cancer are easily removed
in
: surgery (i.e. not enmeshed within lymph nodes) and respond well to
chemotherapy.
<snip>
Dumbass -
That may have well been the case but at the time of treatment no one knows
that, not even the doctors. They cross their fingers and hope it's the case.
When cancers metastasize, they never know.
Kurgan Gringioni
:
: However,, I will concede that steroids do not really kill children. They
: lives though. So it's more like burglary rather than homicide.
Dumbass -
It's not unlike recreational drug use.
Burglary is a bad analogy because there is a separate perpatrator and a
victim. In recreational drug use, the victim and the perpetrator are the
same person.
Amit Ghosh
> Second, Lance wasn't on his 'deathbed.' The guy was never really in danger
> of dying.
dumbass,
i don't know. but at the time armstrong had no qualms admitting to
doping among people he knew personally.
> Third, absent Betsy's revelations, the federal case and pending USADA case
> would still be going forward as neither will likely focus on pre-96 doping.
> SO Betsy, while entertaining, is really a red herring.
yes. but (frankie) andreu and others will have some information about
the post-'98 years.
Fred
wrote:
> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
Not always. Sometimes the victim is the family or friends of the drug
user, or the victim of the burglary that the drug user committed to
finance the drug purchase, or the victim of the other crimes that the
distributors of the recreational drug commit.
You've tried again and again to equate everything from coffee drinking
or taking aspirin to PED use, but some of us ain't buying it. I can
understand how you feel that way, though... given your circumstances/
experiences. You have to feel that way, or else you have to realize
that you're not as ethical/moral/normal as you'd like to think you
are. It's all just a rationalization.
Fred
Michael Press
Doug Anderson <ethelthelo...@gmail.com> wrote:
That is okay. I am done with the tube patching thread.
--
Michael Press
Beloved Fred No. 1
> You have to feel that way, or else you have to realize
> that you're not as ethical/moral/normal as you'd like to think you
> are. It's all just a rationalization.
My ethics/morals have a bigger penis than yours so therefore they must
be "right".
Kurgan Gringioni
"Fred" <fred....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c91afce8-fb3d-4db3...@q26g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
:: You've tried again and again to equate everything from coffee drinking
:: or taking aspirin to PED use, but some of us ain't buying it.
Dumbass -
All of it is doping.
The difference with PEDs is that it's a rules infraction.
BTW, you only listed the most benign drugs. Alcohol is used responsibly by
some, but others destroy their lives with it and 20,000 people/year are
killed by drunk drivers. And the health toll of nicotine completely dwarfs
all PEDs put together. 300,000 people/year from smoking related illnesses.
Surely you know people who abuse alcohol and are addicted to nicotine. Why
are PED users worse than them?
Fred
wrote:
> "Fred" <fred.gar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Sure I know people who abuse alcohol and are addicted to nicotine.
That hasn't got anything to do with YOUR equating taking practically
any substance as doping or doing drugs. You do that because it makes
you feel okay with your life choices or the life choices of those you
are friends with.
LawBoy01
Agreed. But where's the transcript that proves Betsy was right and
telling the truth?
LawBoy01
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jame,
You're a repugnant fuck wad.
-Philip
Amit Ghosh
> Agreed. But where's the transcript that proves Betsy was right and
> telling the truth?
dumbass,
don't be obtuse. there will never be "proof" since the conversation in
the hosptial room wasn't recorded.
but in confidence mcilvain backs up betsy andreu's story, but publicly
she doesn't. you don't have to be encyclopedia jones to know what's
going on.
Magilla Gorilla
Sorry, Danny. You got bullied in that courtroom by the memory of a dead lawyer. Your
boy is going down.
Magilla
Brad Anders
WTF does that mean?
Fact is that people take PED's because they like the results, and some
PED's appear to be relatively harmless, as long as the dosage is
controlled (same as any other drug). Not that different from the use
of caffeine, alcohol, cannibas, legal supplements, OTC medicines, and
prescription drugs.
BTW, I want to confess that I'm a doper on many levels. I drink
alcoholic and caffienated beverages, I take a few supplements and some
OTC stuff like Advil, and I take two prescription drugs (blame my
cardiologist, I wouldn't take the fucking things if it weren't for
him). IMO, we'd be hard-pressed to find anyone posting to this n.g.
who isn't a doper in some way.
Brad Anders
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
Well, that's what it is. It's all doping. Even caffeine. It's a hard
addiction to kick.
Fred Flintstein
Betsy has no credibility as long as she is an apologist for
an admitted doper.
Fred "Doesn't believe Frankie's involvement was minimal" Flintstein
Frederick the Great
Michael Press
"Kurgan Gringioni" <soulinth...@gmail.com> wrote:
Any drug we take we get dependent upon.
Take vitamin C regularly in large doses
and you will suffer if you stop because
your physiology becomes dependent. I put
drugs into two classes: those that can
kill you if you go cold turkey and all
the rest. Barbiturates and methadone are
in the first class. Heroin is in the
latter class.
--
Michael Press
Magilla Gorilla
But did you build your entire public persona and professional career on LYING
about that?
Well, that's what Lance did and continues to do. According to Lance (not me),
admitting that he doped would be a very bad thing - "all of my sponsors would go
away" to quote Lance in the SCA hearing.
Not only that, the millions of people who have "faith" in Lance would go away,
which would mean so would all his endorsements, power, and ergo, celebrity status.
So trying to downplay Lance's doping by admitting you - and everyone else - takes
some form of PED as a layperson going about their day is not gonna work.
First of all, we're talking about taking high performance gainers that are on the
banned list for the specific intent to excel at a professional sport - to cheat in
order to win. Taking caffeine and alcohol in the course of being a public citizen
is neither here nor there. Neither is taking aspirin.
Somehow you are trying to convince me that since your SUV can take 30 gallons of
fuel and has an extra gas tank, it's okay for the guy who wins the Daytona 500 to
use an extra gas tank even though that's a major rule violation. Your analogy is
disingenuous.
This is the type of zany logic I would expect from Liz Hatch if she posted here.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Lance was doping in front of the entire Tour team years after his supposed 'near
death' cancer scare while on Postal - i.e. pulling over on the highway for a
fake mechanical to get an oil change on the rest day. And he even let Amish boy
monitor the refrigerator in his Girona pad.
I think Lance just got sloppy and never thought people who doped with him would
ever turn on him. he certainly never imaged the feds would go after him. he
also apparently never read the WADA code, which allows for doping cases to be
brought against athletes for non-analytical circumstances.
Although this first case with Phil Z. didn't go well for USADA, the evidence
against Lance will be more compelling.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
It's right inside my knuckle sandwich I'm about to deliver right into your
fucking mouth. Your radiologist will be in higher tax bracket when I'm done
with you.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
McIlvain also implicates Hincrapie in wanting to chop his car's springs
down so he can cruise in a lowrider like one of his homies in Brooklyn.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Frankie admitted to doping when he was never implicated in any official doping
probe and did so at great peril of losing his job with Versus and Toyota
Manchester United Airlines.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Okay, then how abou Stephanie McIlvain's credibility - didn't you hear the
phone call with Greg Lemon Party?
And how about all those other people who will - and already have - testified
under oath that they saw Lance dope and had many conversations with Lance about
doping? At some point, you gotta ask yourself why all these people want to lie
when they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so. And at some
point you gotta realize that there is a big liar liar pants on fire in this
picture - and it's Lance.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Lance violated federal law.
Magilla
Kurgan Gringioni
"Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rubrum-27542C....@news.albasani.net...
: >
: > :: Sure I know people who abuse alcohol and are addicted to nicotine.
: > :: That hasn't got anything to do with YOUR equating taking practically
: > :: any substance as doping or doing drugs.
: >
: >
: >
: > Dumbass -
: >
: > Well, that's what it is. It's all doping. Even caffeine. It's a hard
: > addiction to kick.
:
: Any drug we take we get dependent upon.
: Take vitamin C regularly in large doses
: and you will suffer if you stop because
: your physiology becomes dependent. I put
: drugs into two classes: those that can
: kill you if you go cold turkey and all
: the rest. Barbiturates and methadone are
: in the first class. Heroin is in the
: latter class.
Dumbass -
Heroin addicts never die from going cold turkey?
I didn't know that.
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
The point is that while it is a rules violation, it isn't a moral issue.
Not when nearly everyone in the larger culture dopes to some degree.
Fred Flintstein
Frankie's confession was half assed, much like Zabel's.
Fred Flintstein
Dumbass,
LANCE doped. Frankie doped. George doped. Now move along.
Fred Flintstein