Buying a high-end trainer?

[OccasionalFlyer]

I want to be able to ride for long periods indoors. I have a basic
Minoura trainer but I don't really want the hassle of having to set it
up, put the bike on it, adjust it, ride, take the bike off, etc.
Unfortunately, I can' t just leave it set up, and I can't use my
garage (it;s full of a car and lots of boxes). I am thinking about
getting an indoor trainer like a RevMaster that I can put in one place
and just use there almost daily. I know the RevMaster is pretty
pricey. I am not a racer at all (could never get past the respiratory
thing so never got past Cat 5). I only want it because I like to
ride, I want to ride more primarily to burn calories, and I can handle
the boredom. After looking at lots of posts on this group about
indoor trainers, I'm wondering if the Lemond product would likely be
the best choice or if thsre's something else out there that might be
better or less expensive. I am tempted by that Proform TdF thing but
I wouldn't trust it to work correctly very long. Thanks for any
suggesitons.

Ken

[Davey Crockett]

OccasionalFlyer a �crit profondement:

So just for a fat-burrner?

You already have a heart rate monitor I presume?

Then buy the cheapest mag-trainer you can find.

Get the cheapest junk mtb/vtt you can find used somewhere.

set up a fan close by - to cool you

Put a couple of towels within easy reach

Put plenty of water within easy reach

Put a race video on your laptop

Determine how long you want to spend "in zone" (on your hrm) and have at
it.

--
Davey Crockett
Help Greece:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_people_vs_banks/

[RicodJour]

Folding rollers with a mag/wind resistance unit. Improving your
smoothness and balance on a bike is just as important as burning
calories. At least to bike riders.

If you wanted a computer on your trainer, mount a laptop on your
handlebars while riding the rollers. I'm only half kidding.

R

[--D-y]

That is sure-enough a plan. Davy has obviously spent a winter or two
in the Alamo (although truth be told, San Antonio TX is pretty far
into the two-season zone and what snow might occasionally fall doesn't
last long. But it does get cold & rainy, no doubt about that).

I have used a Cyclops Mag trainer, which might not be "cheapest" but
is IMHO a good place to spend money on a trainer, especially a clean
used one (many "used" trainers and rollers have been mostly stored as
it takes a lot of gumption to wear out a bike trainer or a set of
rollers). Some people strongly prefer fluid models for the
"feel" (closer to real road experience) which I can't find fault with
but don't necessarily "agree" with, either.
Wind trainers are usually awfully noisy. With a mag, you can watch TV
or whatever for that needed distraction.The fluids are even quieter,
from what I understand.

(Annual End-of-Summer Sales Job on "Why a club membership is better
than a trainer in your house" follows):
Plan B? By the time you buy a fancy-dan trainer, you might be able to
pay for a winter's worth of gym time somewhere, maybe including gas
money if you can't or don't want to ride your bike there and back.
Club memberships can range from cheap/basic, with a smaller room with
limited equipment that you basically just "have at", to establishments
that offer "trainers" (roving helper people), and activity classes
(some included, some nominally extra $$$), including Spin classes. I
spent a few productive seasons at Spin, with some classes led by an
old female racer friend from back in the day. Very, very good, if just
a lucky happenstance. NOT a loud music/scream at you session with a
bucket of freebie earplugs up at the front, whatsoever! <g>
Plus variety: the free weights, various exercise machines (which can
be really the way to go for someone who is not a dedicated free weight
lifter), steppers, treadmills, showers, sauna, steam room, whirlpool,
cold pool, whatever.

In one place, I spent my time on a rower. Concept 2 brand. A very nice
young woman from the local varsity rowing team very nicely got me
lined out on "what to do". I was still married at the time and did not
get her phone number (yes, there are women...). And the rower, which
the rower people call an "erg", will give you all the workout you can
handle while posing a new-technique learning curve, which helps pass
the time. Earphones, FM radio tuned to the audio for the football game
on the overhead TV...

One big advantage of the club setup: you work out away from the house.
Makes it easier, perhaps, to perform and being in the middle of a
roomful of exercisers can be a big lift, compared to suffering alone
<g>. No clutter, mess, setup/teardown, etc., and if you use something
more "upscale", you sauna/steamroom/whatever at the club (using their
hot water and towels) and come home nice and pink and fresh, and,
again, your home is yours, while the workout happens elsewhere.

How am I doing, Davy?
--D-y

[OccasionalFlyer]

> --D-y- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, going to my gym every day would be great, if it was doable. Not
being to drive because of my eye sight, however, makes that
impossible. If I was willing to get up and ride to the gym in the drak
and cold/rain, I wouldn't need to go to the gym.

I'm trying to avoid a) having to set up and take down my bike from
the trainer every single workout (maybe other trainers are better but
my Minoura Mag trainer is a _big_ hassle to get the bike on to).
Since a full bike and read wheel trainer takes up more space than an
indoor trainer, I probably can't bring it inot the ouse, leaving the
inside of the garage door as the only view. So, if I had lots of free
time and/or a driver's license, I might take a different approach....

[Davey Crockett]

OccasionalFlyer a �crit profondement:

| On Oct 11, 8:54�am, --D-y <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
| > On Oct 11, 5:49�am, Davey Crockett <r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
| >
| > > OccasionalFlyer a crit profondement:
| >
| > > | � �I want to be able to ride for long periods indoors. �I have a basic
| > > | Minoura trainer but I don't really want the hassle of having to set it
| > > | up, put the bike on it, adjust it, ride, take the bike off, etc.
| > > | Unfortunately, I can' t just leave it set up, and I can't use my
| > > | garage (it;s full of a car and lots of boxes). � I am thinking about
| > > | getting an indoor trainer like a RevMaster that I can put in one place
| > > | and just use there almost daily. �I know the RevMaster is pretty
| > > | pricey. �I am not a racer at all (could never get past the respiratory
| > > | thing so never got past Cat 5). �I only want it because I like to
| > > | ride, I want to ride more primarily to burn calories, and I can handle
| > > | the boredom. �After looking at lots of posts on this group about
| > > | indoor trainers, I'm wondering if the Lemond product would likely be
| > > | the best choice or if thsre's something else out there that might be
| > > | better or less expensive. �I am tempted by that Proform TdF thing but
| > > | I wouldn't trust it to work correctly very long. �Thanks for any
| > > | suggesitons.
| >
| >

| > DAVEY:::

When Davey posted originally, he didn't realize you were a bit cramped
for room and he also didn't realize that there were any other limiting
factors governing your setup, ease of access, etc..

But having advocated buying older, used equipment, he should have added
that he never takes his set up down but leaves it assembled permanently
without depriving himself of anything he might need during the season..
Davey does have a special room for bike stuff though.

For weights, Davey just uses those "Velcro wrap-around wrist wieghts"
which will also "wrap around" other limited parts of the body, most
usually the ankles. With these one can perform, using floor mats, chairs
etc., a large number of beneficial exercises.

Luckily, Davey lives in Antibes where there are probably no more than
say 10 days a year when it's not smart for him to ride on the roads, but
since he's working on his ninth decade on this fucked up planet, he does
use the indoor trainer more than he used to even after a ride on the
road. It helps with the spin and can also be a great fat burner.

Additionally there's a lady who organizes an excercise class according
to the "Pilates" discipline and Davey attends this weekly.

One just needs to be a little inventive and you will see that everything
will come together.

-- Not since Leonidas at Thermopylae have badly outnumbered Patriots
defended their homeland as Valliantly as the Libyan Government forces
have defended Sirte. Russia Today reports the Nato/mBongo backed
terrorists are on the run again leaving many (unpaid) dead behind whilst
the mainstream media report its "imminent capture" for around the 20th
time.

--
Davey Crockett

[Davey Crockett]

OccasionalFlyer a écrit profondement:

When Davey posted originally, he didn't realize you were a bit cramped
for room and he also didn't realize that there were any other limiting
factors governing your setup, ease of access, etc..

But having advocated buying older, used equipment, he should have added
that he never takes his set up down but leaves it assembled permanently
without depriving himself of anything he might need during the season..
Davey does have a special room for bike stuff though.

For weights, Davey just uses those "Velcro wrap-around wrist wieghts"
which will also "wrap around" other limited parts of the body, most
usually the ankles. With these one can perform, using floor mats, chairs
etc., a large number of beneficial exercises.

Luckily, Davey lives in Antibes where there are probably no more than
say 10 days a year when it's not smart for him to ride on the roads, but
since he's working on his ninth decade on this fucked up planet, he does
use the indoor trainer more than he used to even after a ride on the
road. It helps with the spin and can also be a great fat burner.

Additionally there's a lady who organizes an excercise class according
to the "Pilates" discipline and Davey attends this weekly.

One just needs to be a little inventive and you will see that everything
will come together.


-

Not since Leonidas at Thermopylae have badly outnumbered Patriots
defended their homeland as Valliantly as the Libyan Government forces

have defended Sirte. Russia Today reports the Nato backed terrorists are

[atriage]

On 17/10/2011 11:20, Davey Crockett wrote:

> Luckily, Davey lives in Antibes

Cunt... Antibes is a great spot, except for that Irish bar which rather lowers
the tone of the place.


--

[--D-y]

Understood. I don't have any useful experience with indoor trainers
aside from rollers or "the bike goes here" models.
Good luck! Hope you find something that works for you.
--D-y

[atriage]

On 17/10/2011 17:10, Davey Crockett wrote:
> atriage a écrit profondement:

> Yes the Slobbo Cheap Package Tourists hang out there
>
> You mean "The Hop Store" ??
>

That's the one, only ever went there once, after that I usually ended up in the
more "French" area further into the old town. Still a bit of a tourist trap but
that's hard to avoid around there. At least Antibes is cheaper than St.Trop
where I had one of the most expensive beers I've ever drunk in some snooty bar
but I did get to look at a lot of very classy (probably expensive) girls.

--

[Michael]

I bought rollers with a headwind unit a few weeks ago and they are an excellent workout. I don't have the flywheel attachment, but I can imagine that would make the experience all the better. The headwind unit, unfortunately, is just loud enough to make listening to books-on-tape a little bit of a struggle without earphones or cranking the stereo. There is definitely a learning curve.

All in all, it completely sucks in comparison to riding the open roads. But, then, that is the nature of indoor riding in general.

Mike

[RicodJour]

On Oct 17, 11:19 pm, Michael <michaeldwils...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I bought rollers with a headwind unit a few weeks ago and they are an excellent workout. I don't have the flywheel attachment, but I can imagine that would make the experience all the better. The headwind unit, unfortunately, is just loud enough to make listening to books-on-tape a little bit of a struggle without earphones or cranking the stereo. There is definitely a learning curve.
>
> All in all, it completely sucks in comparison to riding the open roads. But, then, that is the nature of indoor riding in general.

Yes, but wait until after riding the rollers for the off season
(assuming you have an off season season). When you get out on the
road you'll marvel at your new found smoothness and the miles will
disappear beneath you much to bystander amazement and awe.

Happens every day.

R

[Michael]

I sure hope so.

Thanks, R.

Mike

[RicodJour]

To paraphrase Yoda, there is no hope there is only roll. Any trainer
can make you stronger, but rollers make you smoother and stronger.

Bicycling is the most efficient means of personal transportation,
which makes it the most efficient sport. Efficiency is everything.
At the top levels a difference of a handful of watts can make a
difference in the results, and at the less elevated levels it means
you can go farther and faster with less wasted effort.

Having a smooth pedaling stroke requires either balance and equally
distributed forces...or equally distributed unbalanced forces.
Sometimes you'll see someone riding whose knees are oscillating all
over the place, but they still seem to have a smooth stroke. All of
that oscillation is wasted energy.

Plus chicks love smooth pedaling strokes as it is indicative of
expertise in other forms of exercise.

Enjoy the rollers.

R

[atriage]

Ah you mean doing the washing up.

--

[Simply Fred]

RicodJour wrote:
>> Plus chicks love smooth pedaling strokes as it is indicative of
>> expertise in other forms of exercise.

atriage wrote:
> Ah you mean doing the washing up.
>

You brits don't have to worry about taking the garbage out anymore since
there's no one to pick it up. Perhaps its different on the Isle of Man.

[atriage]

Doesn't matter the seagulls eat it, they'll all be too fat to fly soon. Kind of
like a lot of the rbr peeps.

--

[RicodJour]

On Oct 18, 3:23 pm, atriage <atri...@satriage.net> wrote:
> On 18/10/2011 20:02, Simply Fred wrote:

> > atriage wrote:
> >> RicodJour wrote:
>
> >>> Plus chicks love smooth pedaling strokes as it is indicative of
> >>> expertise in other forms of exercise.
>

> >> Ah you mean doing the washing up.
>
> > You brits don't have to worry about taking the garbage out anymore since there's
> > no one to pick it up. Perhaps its different on the Isle of Man.
>
> Doesn't matter the seagulls eat it, they'll all be too fat to fly soon. Kind of
> like a lot of the rbr peeps.

You dissing Peeps, punk...?
http://madsilence.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/david-ottogallli-turns-peeps-into-pop-art.jpg

That's not what I meant by chicks loving it, anyway.

R

[Michael Press]

In article
<40d1f47d-a2bf-4ed7...@s14g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,

RicodJour <rico...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Oct 17, 11:55 pm, Michael <michaeldwils...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I sure hope so.
> >
> > Thanks, R.
> >
> > Mike
>
> To paraphrase Yoda, there is no hope there is only roll. Any trainer
> can make you stronger, but rollers make you smoother and stronger.
>
> Bicycling is the most efficient means of personal transportation,
> which makes it the most efficient sport. Efficiency is everything.
> At the top levels a difference of a handful of watts can make a
> difference in the results, and at the less elevated levels it means
> you can go farther and faster with less wasted effort.
>
> Having a smooth pedaling stroke requires either balance and equally
> distributed forces...or equally distributed unbalanced forces.
> Sometimes you'll see someone riding whose knees are oscillating all
> over the place, but they still seem to have a smooth stroke. All of
> that oscillation is wasted energy.

Not necessarily.

<http://w4.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/viewFile/4234/3930>

# As the results of the dynamic simulation for bicycle
# pedaling, we have obtained several dynamic properties
# that have been unknown. At first, it was demonstrated
# that the small movements at the hip joint affected the
# hip joint torques remarkably. Secondly, the knee joint
# torque in the three-dimensional model was smaller than
# that in the two- dimensional model. We recommend that
# the riders should not perform pedaling two-
# dimensionally, because the abductionladduction and the
# externallinternal rotation at the hip joint may reduce
# a burden imposed on the knee joint. Additionally, they
# need to train their muscles for the abduction-adduction
# and the external-internal rotation at the hip joint,
# since the unexpected large hip joint torques are produced.

--
Michael Press

[RicodJour]

On Oct 19, 3:52 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <40d1f47d-a2bf-4ed7-a30b-838139eeb...@s14g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>,

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  RicodJour <ricodj...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 17, 11:55 pm, Michael <michaeldwils...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I sure hope so.
>
> > > Thanks, R.
>
> > > Mike
>
> > To paraphrase Yoda, there is no hope there is only roll.  Any trainer
> > can make you stronger, but rollers make you smoother and stronger.
>
> > Bicycling is the most efficient means of personal transportation,
> > which makes it the most efficient sport.  Efficiency is everything.
> > At the top levels a difference of a handful of watts can make a
> > difference in the results, and at the less elevated levels it means
> > you can go farther and faster with less wasted effort.
>
> > Having a smooth pedaling stroke requires either balance and equally
> > distributed forces...or equally distributed unbalanced forces.
> > Sometimes you'll see someone riding whose knees are oscillating all
> > over the place, but they still seem to have a smooth stroke.  All of
> > that oscillation is wasted energy.
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> <http://w4.ub.uni-konstanz.de/cpa/article/viewFile/4234/3930>

Why do people create PDFs where there's illegible stuff? What's the
point of including graphs, if you can't read the damn things?
"Ooooh, that line has a pretty shape!"
Sheesh.

As far as the "not necessarily", I would say that's a negligible
concern. It's the same as almost anything else on a bike - start with
the basic settings and change them a little bit at a time. You'll
know when you go too far when things start to hurt. Then back off a
bit.

That being said, unless someone is totally obsessive about forcing a
theoretical symmetry, there's little chance that your body's
adjustment to rollers will create huge pelvic torque, causing necrosis
and your TdF crown to be stripped. So go for the smoothness. It's
fun. Makes you feel like you're flying/gliding.

R

[Dave Lee]

Re: Message Below

Not long ago I bought a Lemond Revmaster for exactly the reason that you
stated. My perspectives ...

- This is a very nice and well constructed bike (that you pay for)

- It is smooth, totally noiseless, and has enough adjustments for almost any
'reasonably normal personal geometry'

- A couple of twists on the resistance knob and get up/out of the saddle
(just like a real bike where you just encountered a big hill)

- At a minimum you will want a HRMonitor and a cadence meter. And a fan or
two, of course. None of these are expensive.

It is a pretty bike-like experience (based on my couple years of Cat IV/V
racing back in the late 90's).

On the downside you will really wish that you had some kind of feedback
regarding the amount of work that you are actually doing. But (IMHO) this is
the only downside. If you are willing to accept this limitation, I think
that you will enjoy the Revmaster.

dave

ps. Interestingly, this was a 'big deal' in my household. This is an easy to
move and relatively compact and 'attractive' appearing piece of equipment.
It didn't matter to me, but was crucial in the 'household decision' the led
to me spending $1K+ on a trainer.


"OccasionalFlyer" wrote in message
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