Message for Johan Bruyneel : waiting until the final climb ...
S Perryman
When they don't : better have a plan B.
Obviously the Col de Romme in 2009 was not lesson enough.
Regards,
Steven Perryman
Keith
>Only works if all the other teams decide they will too.
>When they don't : better have a plan B.
>
>Obviously the Col de Romme in 2009 was not lesson enough.
I must say I'm surprised that he blew up so bad, the falls can't have
helped of course.
It seems Vaughters was right when he said that in 2009 Astana
"soft-pedalled", I wonder wheter LA remembers that as he promised he
would ?
Another guy who should have listened to Vaughters is Wiggo, this
year's tour is obvisously too hard for him and it's only
starting....Sky and Wiggo remind me of T-Mobile and Kloden in 2006
when they were on the attack on Peyresourde and Portillon and he blew
up on the way to Pla de Beret (lost 1.30 like Wiggo today)
Brad Anders
Agree, we've seen this before from Bruyneel. He was lucky he had
Leipheimer on good form to save the day.
Brad Anders
Brad Anders
Copying your own postings? You're a bigger douche than I thought.
Brad Anders
S Perryman
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:10:22 +0100, S Perryman <a...@a.net> wrote:
>>Only works if all the other teams decide they will too.
>>When they don't : better have a plan B.
>>Obviously the Col de Romme in 2009 was not lesson enough.
> I must say I'm surprised that he blew up so bad, the falls can't have
> helped of course.
Possibly.
But offers an "honourable" exit condition now, does it not.
> It seems Vaughters was right when he said that in 2009 Astana
> "soft-pedalled", I wonder wheter LA remembers that as he promised he
> would ?
Indeed.
Once Astana smelt blood, they stuck the knife in with relish.
> Another guy who should have listened to Vaughters is Wiggo, this
> year's tour is obvisously too hard for him and it's only
> starting....Sky and Wiggo remind me of T-Mobile and Kloden in 2006
> when they were on the attack on Peyresourde and Portillon and he blew
> up on the way to Pla de Beret (lost 1.30 like Wiggo today)
To his teams' credit, they were the ones that put the pressure on
and caused the collapse of Radioshack on the Ramaz. They can only
act based on how Wiggins indicated he was going (at that time) .
Two Armstrong "led" teams with Bruyneel as DS have been taken to pieces in
a mountain stage on two consecutive years, by rivals not waiting for the
final climb to get stuck in.
Such one dimensional tactics by Bruyneel. And no plan B.
I wonder how many rival teams of yore will look back at Armstrongs reign
and weep at such an evident weakness.
Regards,
Steven Perryman
Keith
>Keith wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:10:22 +0100, S Perryman <a...@a.net> wrote:
>
>>>Only works if all the other teams decide they will too.
>>>When they don't : better have a plan B.
>
>>>Obviously the Col de Romme in 2009 was not lesson enough.
>
>> I must say I'm surprised that he blew up so bad, the falls can't have
>> helped of course.
>
>Possibly.
>But offers an "honourable" exit condition now, does it not.
>
>
>> It seems Vaughters was right when he said that in 2009 Astana
>> "soft-pedalled", I wonder wheter LA remembers that as he promised he
>> would ?
>
>Indeed.
>Once Astana smelt blood, they stuck the knife in with relish.
>
>
>> Another guy who should have listened to Vaughters is Wiggo, this
>> year's tour is obvisously too hard for him and it's only
>> starting....Sky and Wiggo remind me of T-Mobile and Kloden in 2006
>> when they were on the attack on Peyresourde and Portillon and he blew
>> up on the way to Pla de Beret (lost 1.30 like Wiggo today)
>
>To his teams' credit, they were the ones that put the pressure on
>and caused the collapse of Radioshack on the Ramaz. They can only
>act based on how Wiggins indicated he was going (at that time) .
Yes he looked good at that time, what's worrying is that it wasn't a
very steep climb up to Avoriaz compared to what they're going to have
in the Pyrenees so that would normally have suited him better.
>Two Armstrong "led" teams with Bruyneel as DS have been taken to pieces in
>a mountain stage on two consecutive years, by rivals not waiting for the
>final climb to get stuck in.
>
>Such one dimensional tactics by Bruyneel. And no plan B.
Well no one rally attacked on the Ramaz, Sky rode at a high pace for a
while and then Saxo took over, but nothing extraordinary judging by
how many riders stayed with them. Astana only started pulling when LA
had been dropped, payback time, eh...
As for a plan B, what could he do apart from having a guy who could
keep up like Levi did today.
>I wonder how many rival teams of yore will look back at Armstrongs reign
>and weep at such an evident weakness.
Well in 2001 on that famous "the killer look" on the Alpe, Team
Telekom (with Livingston leading the charge) had fired on all
cylinders all day as Armstrong was wussing around, pretending to be
having a bad day, but granted they just kept a high pace, they never
attacked.
>Regards,
>Steven Perryman
NoDannyNo
Plan B = Leipheimer
NoDannyNo
"I wonder how many rival teams of yore will look back at Armstrongs
reign and weep at such an evident weakness."
They'd only weep at the fact that they couldn't have been racing
against a 38 year old pseudo-celebrity that can't seem to stay upright
any better than a wino who just got off the tilt-a-whirl.
Fredmaster of Brainerd
>
> Two Armstrong "led" teams with Bruyneel as DS have been taken to pieces in
> a mountain stage on two consecutive years, by rivals not waiting for the
> final climb to get stuck in.
>
> Such one dimensional tactics by Bruyneel. And no plan B.
>
> I wonder how many rival teams of yore will look back at Armstrongs reign
> and weep at such an evident weakness.
Luftmensch,
There are quite a few race tactics that look
brilliant when you have the strongest guy in the
race, and not so brilliant when you don't. That's
not to say they have no value. A tactic that doesn't
fuck up the advantages you do hold is already a
step ahead. (Look at the many times Telekom
managed to do nothing with the cards they held
in the Ullrich years, even if LANCE was stronger
one on one.)
Anyway, this whole looking back at LANCE's
weaknesses in retrospective analysis is luftmensch-
thinking. LANCE last won the Tour when, 2005?
Five years ago? What cracks him into tiny little
pieces now might not have worked then. It would
have been good if Telekom had tried it, just to make
things exciting, but he was near the top of the
field then, and he really hasn't been near the top of
the stage race field for a while, especially this year.
I think the people who said his results in the last
couple of months were crap may have the right to
say they told us so.
Fredmaster Ben
DA74
+1. What a fucking mess that would have been to have a front group
devoid of any RS representation.
DA74
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:97b26b5f-9476-481f...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
===
Plan B = Leipheimer
===
Which is a real problem unless Contador is a lot weaker than he was last
year. Which *could* be the case, or it could just be that he had a
marginal day today due to the heat. But if the Contador we saw last year
shows up in the Pyrenees, I don't see Levi clawing his way back each day
when he launches an attack 4k from the top. Andy Schleck remains the
most vulnerable due to his time trial issues, and I think Levi has a
better shot at marginalizing Andy, especially if Jani is up there.
And in the new world order, there's a lot of firepower on RS that can
now be used more effectively than in the past. Despite his age (where
have we heard that before?) Chris Horner remains an amazingly-capable
domestique on the climbs. Jani, we've seen him at work in the Dauphine.
Popo can probably be called upon to drive tempo in the middle of the big
climbs. All those tools had been centered around Lance, but now they're
available to Levi.
So I'm sticking with my ridiculous notion that Schleck might not even
make the podium, going with Contador, Evans, Levi. It will be the
most-boring run at 3rd place ever. How could it not? I'll be able to
watch replays on the flight home and actually fall asleep. Don't get me
wrong; when I've been around Levi he seems like a truly nice guy. He
lack of attacking, and his consistent droping off the back when others
attack, and then slowly clawing his way back... it's just not very
exciting to watch.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
wrote:
>
> So I'm sticking with my ridiculous notion that Schleck might not even
> make the podium, going with Contador, Evans, Levi. It will be the
> most-boring run at 3rd place ever. How could it not? I'll be able to
> watch replays on the flight home and actually fall asleep. Don't get me
> wrong; when I've been around Levi he seems like a truly nice guy. He
> lack of attacking, and his consistent droping off the back when others
> attack, and then slowly clawing his way back... it's just not very
> exciting to watch.
Dumbass -
I agree that it's not very exciting to watch, but there's not a whole
lot he can do about it.
Dude can't handle the tempo changes. It's his weakness as a climber.
(speculating here)-> probably genetic - not a whole lot of anaerobic
power potential.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Amit Ghosh
wrote:
> And in the new world order, there's a lot of firepower on RS that can
> now be used more effectively than in the past. Despite his age (where
> have we heard that before?) Chris Horner remains an amazingly-capable
> domestique on the climbs. Jani, we've seen him at work in the Dauphine.
> Popo can probably be called upon to drive tempo in the middle of the big
> climbs. All those tools had been centered around Lance, but now they're
> available to Levi.
dumbass,
leipheimer did drop contador in 2007. both leipheimer and kloden were
better than armstrong last year, but you didn't see it because
leipheimer had dropped out.
S Perryman
> On Jul 11, 8:27 pm, S Perryman <a...@a.net> wrote:
>>Two Armstrong "led" teams with Bruyneel as DS have been taken to pieces in
>>a mountain stage on two consecutive years, by rivals not waiting for the
>>final climb to get stuck in.
>>Such one dimensional tactics by Bruyneel. And no plan B.
>>I wonder how many rival teams of yore will look back at Armstrongs reign
>>and weep at such an evident weakness.
> There are quite a few race tactics that look
> brilliant when you have the strongest guy in the
> race, and not so brilliant when you don't. That's
> not to say they have no value. A tactic that doesn't
> fuck up the advantages you do hold is already a
> step ahead. (Look at the many times Telekom
> managed to do nothing with the cards they held
> in the Ullrich years, even if LANCE was stronger
> one on one.)
Over seven years it should have been obvious that Armstrong was
ok on the last climb, and his team 1D tactics were to let him
poodle along to that last climb, ride a high tempo and hope he
would deliver.
Smart riders ask the right questions.
What if my opponents have been put through a bit of stress
before the final climb ??
What if I blow away their team mates long before the final climb ??
> Anyway, this whole looking back at LANCE's
> weaknesses in retrospective analysis is luftmensch-
> thinking. LANCE last won the Tour when, 2005?
> Five years ago? What cracks him into tiny little
> pieces now might not have worked then.
1. What cracks him , *and his team* , into tiny little pieces.
Cycling is a team sport.
2. Not asking questions of, or submitting to the 1D tactics of
your rival, is "untermensch" thinking.
Regards,
Steven Perryman
S Perryman
BTW, what is your suggestion for RadioShack tactics from now on ??
Perhaps you are going to suggest that they ride at the front of
the peloton all day on the mountain stages, until the last climb,
and then ...
Regards,
Steven Perryman
Betty
> Anyway, this whole looking back at LANCE's
> weaknesses in retrospective analysis is luftmensch-
> thinking. LANCE last won the Tour when, 2005?
> Five years ago? What cracks him into tiny little
> pieces now might not have worked then. It would
> have been good if Telekom had tried it, just to make
> things exciting,
I seem to recall Ullrich attacking on a penultimate climb to the
surprise of the commentators a few years back.
Keith
Tourmalet 2003 and that was a weakling attack unfortunately, he took
off like a turtle and gained maybe 10 meters on LA. It looked like he
was teasing him, he was the "nail" on the next climb up to Luz where
LA won the TdF.