Floyd is a nice guy
A. Dumas Fred
B. Lafferty
> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
F. Kurgan Gringioni
"B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrW...@giganews.com...
Dumbass -
Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
DOPE" part of the four year crusade. By lying about that part of it he
ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has of changing
anything.
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
DA74
wrote:
I think a guy like AHM who is just as talented as any of the top level
pros probably feels a certain degree of vindication. Guys like him
which he mentioned, Tim Johnson, Danny Pate, and Mike Creed were all
standing at those crossroads and chose a path that paid them a
fraction of what they could have made. They didn't choose the rock
star life - They chose to play the bars instead of the arenas and live
with a clear conscience.
I think guys like him would love to see the dopers go down because it
will validate their choices to a degree. They did the right thing but
no one outside of the game really knows that. They just figure these
guys aren't as good or fast as the Pro Tour boys.
But KG I do agree with you, Floyd went about it all wrong. He is a
fucking moron.
K. Fred Gauss
Yes, nicely done. The "Pretty Boy Floyd" analogy works very well for
this piece, but you might have to know a bit about the gangster to
follow that.
For those that need some background:
http://www.angelfire.com/folk/longtimecoming/prettyboy/stories.html
K. Fred Gauss
I like the bits about "Pretty Boy Floyd" that are interspersed with the
piece. Myerson wasn't trying to deal with Floyd in his entirety. By
including the PBF comparison he's making it clear that he knows there's
more going on here than just a story about a nice guy who doped. He's
not trying to cover all that, just telling us about his personal
experiences with Flandis.
GoneBeforeMyTime
> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
Nice read.
I spent a week with Floyd at the same hotel in Redlands. He stayed with his
team two doors down. I saw them often out in the hotel parking lot, at the
races, and in the Hotel breakfest area. They often wondered why I never
spoke to them or tried to take their photos since i was an offical press
photographer. They were nice though, Floyd seems to be a real easy going
kind of guy. When they found out I was covering the girls, I remembered
Floyd said something like, that figures, but he just kind of smiled a little
as he walked back to his room. I never saw him get uptight, he seemed low
key or reserved. Especially in the breakfest area, they were very quiet and
polite.
There is always an open door for Floyd back on the farm, I am sure.
Keith
wrote:
Yes, that sums it up nicely. These revelations are not going away.
Keith
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrW...@giganews.com...
>> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
>>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>>
>> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
>> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
>
>If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
>presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
>DOPE" part of the four year crusade.
That's because he thought he would be allowed to come back by not
breaking the omerta.
> By lying about that part of it he
>ruined his own credibility and with it any chance that he has of changing
>anything.
We'll see about that...
B. Lafferty
Michael Press
"A. Dumas Fred" <alex...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
From the article.
___________________________________________________________________________
Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
for it?
___________________________________________________________________________
The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
other people suffer because of his actions.
--
Michael Press
Frederick the Great
Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2010 08:00:59 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"B. Lafferty" <b...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:IdmdnZ904OYDeGrW...@giganews.com...
> >> On 5/22/2010 5:51 AM, A. Dumas Fred wrote:
> >>> http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
> >>
> >> One of the better pieces on the overall situation that I've read. Adam
> >> has put Landis and his situation in perspective, rather eloquently, too.
> >
> >
> >
> >Dumbass -
> >
> >Myerson has it partly wrong and Floyd has it completely wrong.
> >
> >If Floyd was going after the system during the last 4 years, he should have
> >presented it as such, truthfully. He should not have included the "I DIDN'T
> >DOPE" part of the four year crusade.
>
> That's because he thought he would be allowed to come back by not
> breaking the omerta.
He was _negotiating_. He was _not_ keeping omerta.
He was _prepared_ to blab; and that means he was not keeping omerta.
--
Old Fritz
B. Lafferty
Fredmaster of Brainerd
> In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
>
> >http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> From the article.
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> for it?
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> other people suffer because of his actions.
I'll try to remember this next time a Tour stage
is heading up a big mountain, some skinny VO2 freak
attacks, and the commentators exclaim, "They're
really suffering now!"
Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
chump or a scapegoat. Sometimes it's not easy
to tell which is which. I have read little of what
Floyd said, and it sounds like he's achieving
maximum trainwreck for the truth-value he is
providing. But I also have some sympathy for the
idea that he doesn't have to play along to make
sure a system that screwed him continues to
operate smoothly.
If we continue with the Mafia analogy of omerta,
one of the things the Mafia is supposed to do is
that when a member goes to prison, his family is
provided for and he gets taken care of when he
gets out. This isn't done out of the goodness of
their hearts, it's done to give them an incentive
not to talk. Some people busted for dope get taken
care of, Floyd got treated like a pariah. In part
because he can't ride competitively any more
(I mean, compare him to the quickness of
re-integrating Ricco into the peloton). So I think
appeals to honorableness are beside the point.
Fredmaster Ben
Michael Press
<43eb2c29-eda1-46fe...@o15g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Fredmaster of Brainerd <bjwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 2:13 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
> > "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
> >
> > From the article.
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> > Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> > I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> > invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> > at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> > George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> > for it?
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> > consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> > other people suffer because of his actions.
>
> I'll try to remember this next time a Tour stage
> is heading up a big mountain, some skinny VO2 freak
> attacks, and the commentators exclaim, "They're
> really suffering now!"
It is a potlatch.
Reminds me of stage 13 today. I thought the pundits'
anticipation of a slugfest was puffery, because
the stage ends with a flat portion. But they were right.
> Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
> your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
> chump or a scapegoat. Sometimes it's not easy
> to tell which is which.
When I realize that I am being exploited I take my
lumps, and do not try to get mine back. There is
nothing in it. I simply stop acting as a chump. It is
easier to learn how not to be exploited by taking one's
lumps, and moving on.
> I have read little of what
> Floyd said, and it sounds like he's achieving
> maximum trainwreck for the truth-value he is
> providing. But I also have some sympathy for the
> idea that he doesn't have to play along to make
> sure a system that screwed him continues to
> operate smoothly.
>
> If we continue with the Mafia analogy of omerta,
> one of the things the Mafia is supposed to do is
> that when a member goes to prison, his family is
> provided for and he gets taken care of when he
> gets out. This isn't done out of the goodness of
> their hearts, it's done to give them an incentive
> not to talk. Some people busted for dope get taken
> care of, Floyd got treated like a pariah. In part
> because he can't ride competitively any more
> (I mean, compare him to the quickness of
> re-integrating Ricco into the peloton). So I think
> appeals to honorableness are beside the point.
There is nothing in messing with other people
who have hurt me; unless I can swear out a
complaint in the matter with the civil authorities
in clear conscience.
--
Michael Press
F. Kurgan Gringioni
"Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjwe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43eb2c29-eda1-46fe-bfc3-
> Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
> your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
> chump or a scapegoat.
Dumbass -
You've got your head up your ass.
The "chumps" are the fools who believed Flandis' lies and donated to the
Floyd Fairness Fund or bought "Positively False" (Flandis' book).
Flandis traveled around the country lying to those people.
F. Kurgan Gringioni
"Keith" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:131gv518auc107f1u...@4ax.com...
Dumbass -
Floyd is a piece of crap.
He traveled around the country soliciting money for the Floyd Fairness Fund
and hawking his book "Positively False". He lied his ass off to all those
chumps who believed his story and gave him money. As long as the money was
coming in, he'd lie his ass off. Then, when he finally bled the money well
dry, he points fingers at everyone.
What a piece of shit.
In the meantime, his father in law committed suicide.
Fuck Floyd.
Keith
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Floyd is a piece of crap.
>
>He traveled around the country soliciting money for the Floyd Fairness Fund
>and hawking his book "Positively False". He lied his ass off to all those
>chumps who believed his story and gave him money. As long as the money was
>coming in, he'd lie his ass off. Then, when he finally bled the money well
>dry, he points fingers at everyone.
So ? Again, I don't understand why/how anyone would have believed him
when he was lying about the TdF testing. I suppose it was because of
the "the French are out to get me" that's served LA so well over the
years.
And again, the fact that he's a POS won't prevent the "facts" he's
brought to everyone's attention to be examined. Apparently you missed
:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/21/sportsline/main6506569.shtml
F. Kurgan Gringioni
> On Sat, 22 May 2010 23:59:50 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Floyd is a piece of crap.
>>
>>He traveled around the country soliciting money for the Floyd Fairness
>>Fund
>>and hawking his book "Positively False". He lied his ass off to all those
>>chumps who believed his story and gave him money. As long as the money was
>>coming in, he'd lie his ass off. Then, when he finally bled the money well
>>dry, he points fingers at everyone.
>
> So ?
Dumbass -
That course of action ruins his credibility.
Keith
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Floyd is a piece of crap.
>>>
>>>He traveled around the country soliciting money for the Floyd Fairness
>>>Fund
>>>and hawking his book "Positively False". He lied his ass off to all those
>>>chumps who believed his story and gave him money. As long as the money was
>>>coming in, he'd lie his ass off. Then, when he finally bled the money well
>>>dry, he points fingers at everyone.
>>
>> So ?
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>That course of action ruins his credibility.
You need to stop repeatng that and try to focus on the big picture,
like the Feds are now doing, more reading for you :
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7133884.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
"Long ago, cyclingÔøΩs authorities decided it would not wash in public
any linen belonging to Armstrong. The United States Anti-Doping
Authority has taken a different line and appointed the federal
investigator Jeff Novitzky to the case. Landis and ArmstrongÔøΩs former
wife are understood to be co-operating. The choice of Novitzky is
significant because if his work in the infamous Balco case proved
anything, it was that lying to federal investigators is not a good
idea.
If Novitzky concludes that US Postal did run a doping programme,
Armstrong and others could face charges. Through Tailwind Sports, the
US Postal team was funded by taxpayersÔøΩ money. The penalties for
misusing such funds are draconian.
The Landis emails may have been but the first chapter in a story
destined to become far more interesting. "
F. Kurgan Gringioni
>>
>>That course of action ruins his credibility.
>
> You need to stop repeatng that and try to focus on the big picture,
> like the Feds are now doing, more reading for you :
Dumbass -
Like I said, Floyd's actions have ruined his credibility *especially* in a
court of law.
Go see my reply in the Kristin thread. She's the one who would be credible.
Keith
Given the link I doubt it, but the more the merrier, Vaughters,
Andreu, Emma, etc...can't see why Tyler wouldn't join in the fun too,
Heras, etc...you name it you got it.
RicodJour
> In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
>
> >http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
>
> From the article.
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> for it?
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> other people suffer because of his actions.
How non-Mafia of you. ;) Is there no room for vengeance and
retribution in this world?
The problem with Floyd (He Be Null and Void) is that he threw
believers under the bus and stole their money for his legal defense
fund.
The rest of it is just sports doping and entertainment along the lines
of a plastered Lindsay Lohan in some gossip rag.
R
F. Kurgan Gringioni
>>
>>Go see my reply in the Kristin thread. She's the one who would be
>>credible.
>
> Given the link I doubt it, but the more the merrier, Vaughters,
> Andreu, Emma, etc...can't see why Tyler wouldn't join in the fun too,
> Heras, etc...you name it you got it.
Dumbass -
If Tyler doped while he was on Postal he didn't do it very well. LANCE was
isolated in the mountains at the TdF one of those years when Tugboat's Dad
and Kevin Livingston were supposed to be his super domestiques.
IMO, the suspicious stuff happened after Tyler and JV weren't on the team
anymore. Prior to that, it doesn't seem like that team was better, or doped
more, than anyone else.
Fred Flintstein
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 06:35:05 -0700, "F. Kurgan Gringioni"
> <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Floyd is a piece of crap.
>>>>
>>>> He traveled around the country soliciting money for the Floyd Fairness
>>>> Fund
>>>> and hawking his book "Positively False". He lied his ass off to all those
>>>> chumps who believed his story and gave him money. As long as the money was
>>>> coming in, he'd lie his ass off. Then, when he finally bled the money well
>>>> dry, he points fingers at everyone.
>>> So ?
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> That course of action ruins his credibility.
>
> You need to stop repeatng that and try to focus on the big picture,
> like the Feds are now doing, more reading for you :
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7133884.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
Dumbass,
I'd just like to point out that none of that is from
a credible source.
Fred Flintstein
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>He traveled around the country soliciting money for the Floyd Fairness Fund
>and hawking his book "Positively False". He lied his ass off to all those
>chumps who believed his story and gave him money. As long as the money was
>coming in, he'd lie his ass off. Then, when he finally bled the money well
>dry, he points fingers at everyone.
Which, B. Laughing boy to the contrary, is the most likely source for
legal action. Yeah, I know that recent cases seem to make collection
unlikely and FL is threading his needle carefully to keep a defense
alive, but someone is likely to decide to take a flier on suing, just
out of pure irritation. Maybe not enough grounds for winning, but
plenty for starting a suit. At this point I would love to see FL
fighting his personal wars on two fronts (yeah, yeah, I know any
decent lawyer would ask for a delay for exactly that reason).
I never thought he was a probably innocent, but I did at one time
think he was a sympathetic character, out of his league in every way
possible. He seems to be systematically destroying that one source of
sympathy he had. He should have traded one or two lawyers for one
decent PR flack.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
cur...@the-md-russells.org
>Given the link I doubt it, but the more the merrier, Vaughters,
>Andreu, Emma, etc...can't see why Tyler wouldn't join in the fun too,
>Heras, etc...you name it you got it.
Some of those you name would be pissing in the only pool where they
had any significance. It isn't quite at the level of 'being quiet and
remembering happier times', but it is close. Why would Heras, for
example, spend several months of his time in an endeavor that would
probably cost him more money than he would make from it, remind any
people paying him for appearances of certain unhappy events and would
cement his memory connected to the time he was caught doing drugs,
rather than his cycling successes?
It is easy for people on rbr to talk as if people want to come out of
the woodwork to join in some moral campaign, but I don't see all that
much evidence that even many of those that have testified in a way
that could be construed as damaging LA WANTED to testify. To get
involved means considerable impact on their lives. To say what some of
you want them to say means they will most likely have to pay a lawyer
for at least some time, defend themselves in the public against things
that will probably be said against them as a result, and require
significant amounts of personal time down the road. I've spent more
than ten hours of completely wasted time on a court case just because
my name was stuck at the top by a lazy lawyer, one where it will
probably be dismissed because they won't show up at the trial date (I
only asked for dismissal, not money), and it still is a pain.
No, all the wishes expressed here to the contrary, most people aren't
planning to write a book and they don't want publicity completely
unrelated to what they are actually doing in life and they can figure
out the costs of jumping into a fray where there will be plenty of
lawyers well funded. Why do it? Really, why do it? Do you think they
all have your same sense of moral outrage? If you knew you would have
to pay a lawyer and take significant time from your current career
just to express that moral outrage, would you do it?
My prediction is that only the stupid and the subpoenaed will make
statements and show up. FL has already started the first list.
Amit Ghosh
wrote:
> IMO, the suspicious stuff happened after Tyler and JV weren't on the team
> anymore. Prior to that, it doesn't seem like that team was better, or doped
> more, than anyone else.
dumbass,
are you talking about hamilton specifically or armstrong's team ?
we already know that in 1999 andreu and another unnamed rider were
doping. after that the team signed stronger riders (like heras who had
already won a vuelta) that was also the year that leipheimer became a
possible GT contender.
Amit Ghosh
\
> Some of those you name would be pissing in the only pool where they
> had any significance. It isn't quite at the level of 'being quiet and
> remembering happier times', but it is close.
dumbass,
beat's me. why did zabel and riis confess ?
Amit Ghosh
dumbass.
pretty much everyone seems nice in brief casual encounters.
reading brent kay's emails to floyd it's obvious that his lies
incurred a high emotional and financial expense which he benefitted
from.
B. Lafferty
in prison on the testimony of shitty people. And in Landis' situation,
there are potentially others to corroborate his testimony and other real
evidence Landis may lead the Feds to.
But, thanks for sharing your "thoughts," Fred.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
They were running out of options after a series of earlier confessions
that were sweeping them up. They made confessions that limited the
damage that was occuring anyway. Heras? Done deal, why bring it back
up? Has Zabel or Riis done any additional thea culpas since? No, I bet
they are back taking appearance money at cycling events.
F. Kurgan Gringioni
"Amit Ghosh" <amit....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9470ffa2-a721-4a96...@f14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> IMO, the suspicious stuff happened after Tyler and JV weren't on the team
> anymore. Prior to that, it doesn't seem like that team was better, or
> doped
> more, than anyone else.
:: dumbass,
::
:: are you talking about hamilton specifically or armstrong's team ?
Dumbass -
Hamilton specifically. IIRC, him and Livingston got dropped, leaving LA
isolated in a group of 20 odd riders in some key mountain stages. If
Hamilton was doping, he wasn't doing such a good job of it. Certainly not as
good as he did later on.
F. Kurgan Gringioni
>>
>> Like I said, Floyd's actions have ruined his credibility *especially* in
>> a court of law.
>>
>> Go see my reply in the Kristin thread. She's the one who would be
>> credible.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
> ROTFLMAO!!! Do you have any idea how many convicted perps are sitting in
> prison on the testimony of shitty people. And in Landis' situation, there
> are potentially others to corroborate his testimony and other real
> evidence Landis may lead the Feds to.
See the "Floyd Fairness Fund". He lied to people to raise money for the
"Floyd Fairness Fund".
See also his book, "Positively False".
He was either lying then or lying now. Way too easy for a good attorney to
tear him apart. He'd just have to spend a few days going over all that
material and it's public record. Flandis would look sooooooo bad on the
stand.
Fred Flintstein
Zabel only confessed to a limited amount of stuff that
he was going to be on the hook for anyway. He was
only doping back before he started winning races from
March into the 6 day season. Keep that in mind.
Fred Flintstein
B. Lafferty
Fredmaster of Brainerd
wrote:
> "Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:43eb2c29-eda1-46fe-bfc3-
>
> > Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
> > your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
> > chump or a scapegoat.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> You've got your head up your ass.
>
> The "chumps" are the fools who believed Flandis' lies and donated to the
> Floyd Fairness Fund or bought "Positively False" (Flandis' book).
>
> Flandis traveled around the country lying to those people.
Dumbass,
Yeah, I guess Flandis's actions make it hard to be
sympathetic and one should resist the urge. He may
have taken more than the usual share of condemnation
shortly after getting popped, but his subsequent actions
have brought the attention upon himself. I made the
comparison to Ricco (or Basso, etc etc) but those guys
got taken back into the fold partly because they are
members of the club in a way Floyd is not, but also
because they had the sense to stay out of the spotlight
for a little while.
I still don't think the whole "honor" argument for keeping your
mouth shut is a great one, here or elsewhere. There are
all too many examples of using "honor" to mean covering up
bad behavior (not talking about doping, but actual crimes).
There is some merit in the idea that if you dope to gain
an advantage and get caught, you shouldn't burn the
people who did you favors. However, it's not clear to me
that you owe silence to people who pressured you to dope.
Fredmaster Ben
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
You're welcome.
BTW, I know it's hard for you to see since you might have a hard time
undermining Floyd's impeccable credibility under cross examination,
but whatever attorney LANCE would hire would have no such problem.
Anton Berlin
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lance will be taking the 5th -
Many, many times
B. Lafferty
Michael Press
<7036985f-9c4e-42d4...@i31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On May 22, 5:13 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article <27524$4bf7a92e$53578816$24...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
> > "A. Dumas Fred" <alexan...@dumas.fr> wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
> >
> > From the article.
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> > Floyd's position went something like this: Oh fuck yes
> > I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not
> > invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was
> > at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like
> > George. So why should I be the only one who goes down
> > for it?
> > ___________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > The answer is that an honorable man abides with the
> > consequences of his actions. He does not try to make
> > other people suffer because of his actions.
>
> How non-Mafia of you. ;) Is there no room for vengeance and
> retribution in this world?
Plenty; for those actively seeking, acquiring, and maintaining power.
Otherwise it's a mug's game.
> The problem with Floyd (He Be Null and Void) is that he threw
> believers under the bus and stole their money for his legal defense
> fund.
>
> The rest of it is just sports doping and entertainment along the lines
> of a plastered Lindsay Lohan in some gossip rag.
Agree. I made this point in a discussion in rbt.
--
Michael Press
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Here is part of the Floyd Fairness Fund propoganda. This stuff is all
public record. He'd have no credibility on a witness stand because
this stuff directly contradicts his current accusations..
Betty Munro
> He should have traded one or two lawyers for one
> decent PR flack.
The exchange rate on lawyers suck.
Betty Munro
> pretty much everyone seems nice in brief casual encounters.
That's not what some nice people say about us dumbasses and freds on rbr.
B. Lafferty
There are others who might just corroborate his testimony; there may be
real evidence like text messages that can be recovered via criminal
subpoenas and search warrants; contemporaneous records kept by Landis
that will bolster his credibility. Once there are Federal investigators
involved, there's a great deal that can be uncovered to make Landis'
testimony more credible and lead to other witnesses and real evidence.
You truly are an amazingly ignorant little turd. But, keep sharing.
Thanks, Fred.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
If others corroborate his testimony, a judge or a jury might believe
it because of the others.
They won't believe it because of Floyd. He's got a huge body of work
which is public record that directly contradicts the accusations he
just made a few days ago. Not only is there the Floyd Fairness Fund
tours, there's an entire book dedicated towards telling the story that
he did not dope.
http://www.amazon.com/Positively-False-Real-Story-France/dp/1416950230
Positively False: The Real Story of How I Won the Tour de France
(Hardcover)
~ Floyd Landis
<snip><end>
B. Lafferty
Keith
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Fred. presented by Gringioni.
>> ROTFLMAO!!! Do you have any idea how many convicted perps are sitting in
>> prison on the testimony of shitty people. And in Landis' situation, there
>> are potentially others to corroborate his testimony and other real
>> evidence Landis may lead the Feds to.
>
>
>
>See the "Floyd Fairness Fund". He lied to people to raise money for the
>"Floyd Fairness Fund".
>
>See also his book, "Positively False".
>
>He was either lying then or lying now. Way too easy for a good attorney to
>tear him apart. He'd just have to spend a few days going over all that
>material and it's public record. Flandis would look sooooooo bad on the
>stand.
You don't get it do you, they will get other people to confirm his
revelations, before anything happens.
z, fred
This is all water under the bridge.
You don't think that 3 year hiatus was actually 'retirement', do you?
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
My point is that Floyd is not credible. I'm not talking about anyone
else.
Dumbass.
DA74
wrote:
> On May 22, 11:55 pm, "F. Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringi...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Fredmaster of Brainerd" <bjwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:43eb2c29-eda1-46fe-bfc3-
>
> > > Seriously, there is a thin line between taking
> > > your lumps honorably, and being an exploited
> > > chump or a scapegoat.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > You've got your head up your ass.
>
> > The "chumps" are the fools who believed Flandis' lies and donated to the
> > Floyd Fairness Fund or bought "Positively False" (Flandis' book).
>
> > Flandis traveled around the country lying to those people.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Yeah, I guess Flandis's actions make it hard to be
> sympathetic and one should resist the urge. He may
> have taken more than the usual share of condemnation
> shortly after getting popped, but his subsequent actions
> have brought the attention upon himself. I made the
> comparison to Ricco (or Basso, etc etc) but those guys
> got taken back into the fold partly because they are
> members of the club in a way Floyd is not, but also
> because they had the sense to stay out of the spotlight
> for a little while.
>
You make a good point here. It's interesting if you look at Tyler and
Floyd with regard to their handling of their positive tests. Both got
indignant and dragged their fans into the fight. They went on some
misguided PR benders with "Believe Tyler", "Floyd Fairness Fund" which
only had upside with their hardcore following but alienated the rest -
including cycling fans and the establishment. I've never seen any of
the Euro guys pull these circus tricks. They take their suspensions
quietly, keep their mouths shut and are inserted right back into the
fold.
These two fucktards made such a huge spectacle that no Pro Tour team
wanted any part of them when their suspensions were over. Floyd and
Tyler would have been waaay better off leaving quietly and coming back
quietly and just doing what they did to get to the top in the first
place. Basso is a prime example. Vino too.
-DA74
cur...@the-md-russells.org
wrote:
>Amit Ghosh wrote:
>> pretty much everyone seems nice in brief casual encounters.
>
>That's not what some nice people say about us dumbasses and freds on rbr.
They are even less impressed by rbr casual encounters in briefs.
A. Dumas Fred
> You don't think that 3 year hiatus was actually 'retirement', do you?
There is a theory that the UCI made a deal with Armstrong to take a
suspension for some years while allowing him to call it retirement, to
preserve cycling's image, and they never expected him to come back after
that.
Betty Munro
>>> pretty much everyone seems nice in brief casual encounters.
Betty Munro wrote:
>> That's not what some nice people say about us dumbasses and freds on rbr.
curtis wrote:
> They are even less impressed by rbr casual encounters in briefs.
Its not our fault our briefs are stained.
Frederick the Great
<43c40120-a3f3-46e4...@v18g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
No, you do not. Is it worth the time and energy to
continue to associate with them, if only in an
adversarial relationship? How do you protect those
who ought not be burned?
--
Old Fritz
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Oh!! I thought we were talking about Lafferty's
3 year hiatus from rbr.
Fredmaster Ben
Keith
Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >He was either lying then or lying now. Way too easy for a good attorney to
>> >tear him apart. He'd just have to spend a few days going over all that
>> >material and it's public record. Flandis would look sooooooo bad on the
>> >stand.
>>
>> ÔøΩYou don't get it do you, they will get other people to confirm his
>> revelations, before anything happens.
>
>
>
>Dumbass -
>
>My point is that Floyd is not credible. I'm not talking about anyone
>else.
>
My point is that without Floyd's revelation it was business as usual.
Betty Munro
>> There is a theory that the UCI made a deal with Armstrong to take a
>> suspension for some years while allowing him to call it retirement, to
>> preserve cycling's image, and they never expected him to come back after
>> that.
Fredmaster of Brainerd wrote:
> Oh!! I thought we were talking about Lafferty's
> 3 year hiatus from rbr.
I doubt if Lafferties hiatus had anything to do with rbr's image.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:07:46 -0700 (PDT), "Kurgan. presented by
>
>
>
>
>
> Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >He was either lying then or lying now. Way too easy for a good attorney to
> >> >tear him apart. He'd just have to spend a few days going over all that
> >> >material and it's public record. Flandis would look sooooooo bad on the
> >> >stand.
>
> >> revelations, before anything happens.
>
> >Dumbass -
>
> >My point is that Floyd is not credible. I'm not talking about anyone
> >else.
>
> My point is that without Floyd's revelation it was business as usual.
Dumbass -
It'll probably be business as usual again soon because:
Floyd is not credible.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> You make a good point here. It's interesting if you look at Tyler and
> Floyd with regard to their handling of their positive tests. Both got
> indignant and dragged their fans into the fight. They went on some
> misguided PR benders with "Believe Tyler", "Floyd Fairness Fund" which
> only had upside with their hardcore following but alienated the rest -
> including cycling fans and the establishment. I've never seen any of
> the Euro guys pull these circus tricks. They take their suspensions
> quietly, keep their mouths shut and are inserted right back into the
> fold.
Dumbass -
Yep.
I'd like to add that the problem with Floyd and Tyler's campaigns is
since they were built on lies, they ended up alienating nearly
*everyone* including their hardcore fans.
As for being inserted right back into the fold: that's the way it's
happening in the NFL too. Guys get a dirty drug test, they serve their
4 game suspension, then they start playing again. Rather than making
it some sort of big moral issue, look at it as a rules infraction,
make someone take their punishment, then go on from there. It's the
right way to treat the issue too since the population in general dopes
up every day (caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, THC, Viagra, ibuprofen,
birth control hormones, etc.). Athletes should not be held to a higher
standard than everyone else - it's unrealistic and will only result in
disappointment. Rather, they should be held to the same standard as
everyone else.
K. Fred Gauss
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:07:46 -0700 (PDT), "Kurgan. presented by
> Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> He was either lying then or lying now. Way too easy for a good attorney to
>>>> tear him apart. He'd just have to spend a few days going over all that
>>>> material and it's public record. Flandis would look sooooooo bad on the
>>>> stand.
>>> revelations, before anything happens.
>>
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>> My point is that Floyd is not credible. I'm not talking about anyone
>> else.
>>
> My point is that without Floyd's revelation it was business as usual.
Doping revelations ARE business as usual.
This is smaller than Operation Puerto. Fewer riders implicated, no
physical evidence.
A. Dumas Fred
You keep saying that. Do you mean: in a court of law? I don't think
that's relevant (yet) because, at least as far we know from the released
or leaked info, there is no evidence. Or do you mean that you personally
don't find Landis credible? To me it sounds probably all or mostly true.
B. Lafferty
Fred Flintstein
Dumbass,
Maybe you should cc: a federal agent on that. I'm sure they're
very interested in doping operations that took place several
years ago in Spain in facilities that are unlikely to be used
currently for that purpose.
Now go wash your hands.
Fred Flintstein
Betty Munro
>> I'll be Floyd can tell investigators all about blood centers in Valencia.
Fred Flintstein wrote:
> Maybe you should cc: a federal agent on that. I'm sure they're
> very interested in doping operations that took place several
> years ago in Spain in facilities that are unlikely to be used
> currently for that purpose.
> Now go wash your hands.
And your briefs.
F. Kurgan Gringioni
"A. Dumas Fred" <alex...@dumas.fr> wrote in message
news:543b5$4bfb9cb8$53578816$25...@cache2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
Dumbass -
Sure.
But he spent the last 4 years on a crusade trying to prove that he didn't
dope. Floyd Fairness Fund. "Positively False". That's not the kind of guy
who's gonna change anything. Even if you or I believe him personally, the
status quo won't change based upon what a guy like that says. He's a fucking
idiot.
Keith
Except that McQuaid has now admitted the "hush" money was in fact
promised in 2002, like Floyd said, and paid in 2005 ->
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-acknowledges-accepting-armstrong-donation-a-mistake