Weisel
Mike
Weisel got USPS to invest in a systematic doping program, managed by
Dr. Ferrari and bankrolled by Thomas Weisel.
Weisel was really the puppet master for the last 20 years, from Subaru-
Montgomery to BMC.
He got his friend Loren Smith involved - Smith owned Threshold
Management, which became Threshold Sports, run by Dave Chauner, which
later partnered with Weisel's Tailwind Sports to form a bunch of scams
to rip off cities that wanted tourists to come to watch cycling -
they still owe San Francisco $350,000 for the SF GP.
Smith was not just the founder of Threshold Sports, he was the
marketing manager at USPS, and he invested WAY more than USPS agreed
to.
Then Smith got fired for sponsoring a weird sport nobody cared about.
He started STAMPS.COM, and Weisel was the underwriter to guarantee the
company was insured. Then Weisel Partners analysts upgraded STAMPS.COM
to "BUY" a week before the IPO and Loren Smith and Thomas Weisel made
millions, and Loren Smith was rewarded for publicly funding a retarded
cycling team that would go on to win 7TdF's thanks to all the money to
buy dope.
The Stamps.com lawsuit is still in the works, Weisel Partners went
broke and was purchased by another company that lost %25 of their
money last quarter.
So Novitsky does not care about Lance doping - he is conducting an IRS
investigation into why Lance spent 30 million dollars - much of it
earned from taxpayers - to buy dope in Italy
from Professor Ferrari.
Armstrong was a doper, we all acknowledge that, and Weisel was a San
Francisco dotcom scammer, but can Novitsky tie the two powerful
empires together - LIVESTRONG and WEISEL PARTNERS?
Honestly I don't care. American taxpayers paid for the extensive and
ridiculous doping program required to turn Lance Armstrong into a TdF
winner.
I'm more concerned with Chauner planning to make the small depressed
ex-steel town of Coatesville Pa (Population 10,468) by a 15 million
dollar "world class" indoor velodrome.
This era of these rich people using cycling to raise money for their
own self-aggrandizement is over.
I'm sure some new rich people will continue to corrupt the sport, but
whatever.
A lot of this stuff of is on: WWW.VELOPORK.COM
but you can also use google yourself.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> investigation into why Lance spent 30 million dollars - much of it
> earned from taxpayers - to buy dope in Italy
> from Professor Ferrari.
So if I read all the stuff on velopork.com, I'll find documentation or
at least allegations to support the idea that $30,000,000 was spent
on... doping?
Are you making the claim that most of expense of a successful team from
that era went to doping? It seems an incredible claim, but I'm not in a
position to know.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Mike" <mtsch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:80b47a1b-4213-4616...@y27g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Mike
wrote:
> > So Novitsky does not care about Lance doping - he is conducting an IRS
> > investigation into why Lance spent 30 million dollars - much of it
> > earned from taxpayers - to buy dope in Italy
> > from Professor Ferrari.
>
> So if I read all the stuff on velopork.com, I'll find documentation or
> at least allegations to support the idea that $30,000,000 was spent
> on... doping?
>
Please don't spend more than three minutes reading Velopork.com, I
spent less than 30 minutes creating it.
Novitsky only has to prove that some money was exchanged between
Weisel/Tailwind Sports - USPS/Armstrong/Bruyneel - Ferrari.
Then it's easy pickings.
We all have connections - cycling is a small world, but Weisel and
Loren Smith are involved in an IPO lawsuit, Loren Smith was the
contact at USPS to begin the sponsorship.
Weisel and his rich friends were chamois sniffers - pure and simple.
They aren't gonna hold up under federal interrogation.
Armstrong did way more dope - and spent sponsor money on - more dope
than Barry Bonds could have ever dreamed of.
So - no, they spent roughly 15 million on doping over 7 years. That is
a lot of money.
THEY SOLD OLD TREK BIKES TO BUY DOPE.
I haven't even started on that.
ilan
I talked to him on a ride, he didn't seem too bad, except I did most
of the talking. His only reaction to my description of the Stanford
cycling team was to want to know more about that tall rider who he
thought would make a good pursuitist: Derek Bouchard-Hall. At least he
had a good eye for talent.
-ilan
Fred Flintstein
> Novitsky only has to prove that some money was exchanged between
> Weisel/Tailwind Sports - USPS/Armstrong/Bruyneel - Ferrari.
> Then it's easy pickings.
I'm curious about something. Maybe someone could answer this.
In the US, is paying someone for a doping program an illegal act?
Is it illegal to dope for a sporting event?
Just as a hypothetical, let's say that someone from Brainerd that
scams his paycheck from the hard working US taxpayer... let's say
that guy takes that money and buys a doping program with it. Is
that illegal?
Fred Flintstein
Anton Berlin
wrote:
For the most part anytime you lie and make financial gain you've
committed fraud. When you use a phone or fax or internet to do it -
it becomes wireline and typically interstate fraud. When you do it
with others it becomes collusion and when you do it repeatedly it
becomes racketeering. This is my non-legal understanding.
But as an example many EBAY auctions where someone asks some friends
to shill bid up an item are committing most of these crimes.
In a way it's a wonder there aren't more people in prison - read this
for a while and you'll see that a lot of 'everyday' activities are
crimes.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sup_01_18_10_I.html
Fred Flintstein
What if the 'defrauded' party sees a huge gain from the 'fraud'? Is
it still 'fraud'?
I've mentioned that before. No one seems to be interested in an honest
answer.
Fred Flintstein
Fred Flintstein
RicodJour
>
> In a way it's a wonder there aren't more people in prison - read this
> for a while and you'll see that a lot of 'everyday' activities are
> crimes.
>
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sup_01_18_10_I.html
Mr. Stoller: Now you know.
R
Fred Bucephalus Birchmore
Phil H
What if a victim wants to be killed, is it still murder?
Phil H
Fred Flintstein
Murder is defined to be an illegal act.
In the US, doping to win a bike race is not an illegal act.
So I don't think that's a valid analogy.
And I'm becoming a little disquieted by the numbers of people
that are confused about this.
Fred Flintstein
Phil H
>
> - Show quoted text -
You said fraud......are you as disquieted by your own confusion?
Phil H
Fred Flintstein
DDDDDDumbass,
First tell me who was defrauded. Who is the victim?
Fred Flintstein
Fred Bucephalus Birchmore
Loss (financial or other) isn't necessary for fraud.
Fred Flintstein
Correct. But that wasn't the question I asked, was it?
Novitsky has the same problem, it's going to be a bitch
to determine a victim.
Fred Flintstein
Fred Flintstein
Hey Focksticks,
Got yer victims right here. Dreams crushed. A hardened
dose of perspective.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/msg/0a45843d2f0021fe
He deserves jail time for letting down all those cancer
patients. Throw that at him and see if he doesn't start
singing about the financial details of Wiesel's illicit
empire.
I can't wait until that special Tuesday in July.
Fred Flintstein
Frederick the Great
<9157b35a-6f6e-4fd8...@s16g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Phil H <phol...@gmail.com> wrote:
What do you think?
--
Old Fritz
Anton Berlin
wrote:
Why do you think there needs to be a victim for there to the
prosecution of a crime?
No one is 'victimized' when someone smokes pot but the govt has no
problem pursuing those 'criminals' and ironically turning them into
victims via the process.
Fred Flintstein
Dumbass,
If there isn't injury or damage, it isn't fraud. In
a legal sense.
Fred Flintstein
Fredmaster of Brainerd
wrote:
Dumbasses,
Novitsky doesn't have a problem. He will present the
prosecutors with a problem, as they have to decide whether
to bring an indictment or not.
Neither you nor I are lawyers and Lafferty has a conflict of
interest, so we can speak in a blissful state of ignorance. My
guess is that they will have a legal theory that the team
obtained the contract from USPS under false pretenses.
That they assured the USPS (or its negotiators) that there was
absolutely no gambling going on there, conspiring to disguise
the evidence. The "victim" is the USPS being hoodwinked
into a contract. Whether this legal theory will fly with a jury
with a somewhat popular defendant and completely unknown
details of the negotiations is another question (that is, we have
no idea to what extent the USPS side of the business insisted
on the cleanliness of the team or winked at it, and we may never
know) . How compelling it is to a judge and jury will worry the
prosecutors more than it does Novitsky.
It is likely that a trial would embarrass LANCE, but it is
less likely that it would convict him (and even less likely
that it would send him to jail and/or clean up cycling).
I think publicly shaming LANCE would gratify Lafferty
and the fraudbytes guy and to some extent Novitsky, as
it would sort of count as bringing down the target. But
it would not satisfy a prosecutor. Prosecutors are judged
by who they convict, not who they embarrass.
A direct conduit between Weisel, Armstrong, and Ferrari
doesn't prove jack shit. Ironically, if Armstrong paid Ferrari
out of Weisel's bank account rather than the teams it could
help him more than it hurt. I still think the most likely person
to get nailed is some poor schmuck of a bookkeeper or
go-between.
Weisel didn't even go to jail for his own company's
securities crimes, he isn't going to jail for this one.
Fredmaster Ben
p.s. Since Brainerd was mentioned, an explanation of
the reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmVT_EonN4
The original version has a full band but doesn't seem to be
on the web.
Mike
wrote:
>
> Weisel didn't even go to jail for his own company's
> securities crimes, he isn't going to jail for this one.
>
> Fredmaster Ben
>
Ben,
Weisel Partners went down the toilet this last financial quarter - the
genius of Silicon Valley is no longer large and in charge. He is a
liability.
Novitsky got all the norcal nerds who were part of the "Champions
Club" into a room and actually questioned them - and he connected the
dots, and quickly realized that Lance - the cancer wonderboy - was
really just a Subaru-Montgomery whipping boy that was manipulated and
abused by Weisel. Armstrong has an IQ of 78.
Are they gonna put anyone in jail? I doubt it, but yes - like everyone
here said, this is going to be impossible to explain away.
Weisel really EARNED those yellow jerseys by manipulating the US
system, the USPS is a government entity like the IRS, and the IRS s
really doing this investigation.
They - Weisel, Armstrong, Ferrari - will all be made examples of.
Simple as that. They won't cry so hard on their pleasure yachts on the
coast of Nice when it's all over, but at least I can say they are all
a bunch of crooks.
Mike Schatzman
RicodJour
How does your cheating and doping compare? Everyone is a bit of an
egotist/egoist, and their accomplishments and failures loom larger in
their minds, and for the most part rightfully so.
You, personally, were corrupt, cheated, doped and stole from other
individuals. Where do you place yourself in the rankings of corrupt,
cheating, doping, thieves that you listed above? I see no difference
except that you were a corrupt, cheating, doping, thief that did it
for little to no reason - nothing of great importance was at stake.
Except your ego. So I guess that makes you a loser as well.
Nothing virtual about that.
R
Anton Berlin
Fucking moron - I am arguing with a god damn idiot.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Intent is
enough.
Ever read/heard/seen people convicted on "intent to defraud" happens
all of the time.
Google it moron. You're god damn losing any sense of credibility
here.
Fred Flintstein
Dumbass,
Your trolling style needs work.
Fred Flintstein
Fred Flintstein
> Neither you nor I are lawyers and Lafferty has a conflict of
> interest, so we can speak in a blissful state of ignorance. My
> guess is that they will have a legal theory that the team
> obtained the contract from USPS under false pretenses.
> That they assured the USPS (or its negotiators) that there was
> absolutely no gambling going on there, conspiring to disguise
> the evidence. The "victim" is the USPS being hoodwinked
> into a contract. Whether this legal theory will fly with a jury
> with a somewhat popular defendant and completely unknown
> details of the negotiations is another question (that is, we have
> no idea to what extent the USPS side of the business insisted
> on the cleanliness of the team or winked at it, and we may never
> know) . How compelling it is to a judge and jury will worry the
> prosecutors more than it does Novitsky.
Again, it is required that there be injury or damage in order
for it to be fraud. All cycling sponsorship contracts at that
level are structured to eliminate the risk a doping scandal
might have on the sponsor. It'll be a tough sell that USPS
didn't understand what happens in professional sports. There
is no scenario where USPS could have sustained a loss other
than the case where a team of squeaky clean riders got results
like Kenny Labbe.
There is no way this can fly. Even so, Novitsky will attempt
to launch it at a time to maximize headlines. And when that
happens Laff will link to 649 articles and blog posts, all
referencing the same information from the same source.
Fred Flintstein
RicodJour
<bob.schwa...@sbcremoveglobal.net> wrote:
>
> There is no way this can fly. Even so, Novitsky will attempt
> to launch it at a time to maximize headlines. And when that
> happens Laff will link to 649 articles and blog posts, all
> referencing the same information from the same source.
You should have prefaced this with "Spoiler Alert".
R
Frederick the Great
<d06ca959-fd41-4afc...@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Mike <mtsch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are they gonna put anyone in jail? I doubt it, but yes - like everyone
> here said, this is going to be impossible to explain away.
> Weisel really EARNED those yellow jerseys by manipulating the US
> system, the USPS is a government entity like the IRS, and the IRS s
> really doing this investigation.
> They - Weisel, Armstrong, Ferrari - will all be made examples of.
> Simple as that. They won't cry so hard on their when it's all over, but at least I can say they are all
> a bunch of crooks.
Well, you can just get on the loud hailer
and razz them from your pleasure yacht on
the coast of Nice.
--
Old Fritz
Simply Fred
> You should have prefaced this with "Spoiler Alert".
The podium should be in the subject line.
Simply Fred
>> Fucking moron - I am arguing with a god damn idiot.
>>
>> You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Intent is
>> enough.
Fred Flintstein wrote:
> Your trolling style needs work.
<http://crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2010/12/trolling-for-dummies-by-dennis-markuze.html>