Hincapie, Hamilton ,Armstrong doping claims
Randall
to indict. But convicting Armstrong in a trial is altogether a
different matter. I am uncertain that witnessing someone dope is
enough to convict him in a court of law. The blood samples could be
challenged on chain of evidence basis.
Brad Anders
e.g. half a dozen or more teammates say they saw him dope. Half a
dozen say they never saw him dope. LA's lawyers say, well, if he doped
as much as they say, then he'd surely have tested positive (yeah,
Anton, we know about the French tests on the old samples, different
way they'll go after those), where are the positive tests? As you say,
more is needed.
And for the billionth time - everyone knows LA doped. Proving it, and
linking it to criminal behavior is a completely different matter.
Mike
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Nobody cares if Lance doped or not - the FDA is not investigating IF
Lance doped or not,
they already know that he did (like the rest of us in 1996 when he
showed up for the classics
looking like an NFL linebacker), this is about financial fraud
involving hundreds of millions
of dollars.
Armstrong created a financial empire along with Thomas Weisel,
Mellow Johnny is a bike shop, an aviation company with a Gulfstream
Jet, using
a "charity" that used cancer to raise money for a small group of
insiders that revolved around Thomas Weisel.
This is a financial investigation involving Tailwind Sports Thomas
Weisel and the USPS,
who used taxpayers money to fund a doing program.
Lance is one pawn in the game, Tyler Hamilton, Landis and Hincapie are
other pawns,
but the major players are Capital Sports and Entertainment (CSE) who
took over for
Tailwind after it got scary for the major players involved.
Stapleton Skaggs (SP?) whoever else is involved
will end up snitching in the end - because you don't lie to a grand
jury.
Hamilton and Hincapie are just admitting what they've already been
forced to admit under oath.
Novitsky isn't going to prove Lance doped, that is impossible at this
point, he is going to show
wire transfers, money laundering between Tailwind and the people who
supplied the dope (Amgen maybe,
but probably Ferrari and the like).
Hamilton just wants attention and to "come clean" before the boot
drops. Hincapie just doesn't want to go to jail,
but the guy did have the audacity to win a freaking mountain stage in
the TdF. I mean really, the guy is 6'3" 185.
That is just Tom Zirbel-esque, just ridiculous.
I like all the yellow wristband crowd finally facing reality, but it
really is like telling little children there is
no Santa Claus, kinda depressing.
I like Ochowicz, who has worked as a trader for Weisel for over 25
years, pretending he has no idea what is
going on, he should just man up and jump off the sinking ship while he
still has the chance. BMC won't exist next year
anyway.
I love Horner and Leipheimer, both pushing 50 years old, winning Mt.
Baldy today! That is just Bruyneel rubbing this shit in your face!
booya! Cycling is no cleaner today that it was then. And the Amgen
Tour of California, I know a million people have pointed this out -
but really, how classic is that? Amgen really caters to their
demographic.
Mike Schatzman
VELOPORK.COM
Randall
> On May 21, 11:29 pm, Randall <randall.shim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Allegations by Hincapie that he witnessed Lance dope might be enough
> > to indict. But convicting Armstrong in a trial is altogether a
> > different matter. I am uncertain that witnessing someone dope is
> > enough to convict him in a court of law. The blood samples could be
> > challenged on chain of evidence basis.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and hard to prove as well. It's possible that the prosecutor could
argue that Lance knew about doping and did nothing to stop it. So as
team captain and part owner he is culpable for not reporting a crime.
Personally I find it hard to believe that the US Postal management
would expose itself to the risks of supplying drugs to the riders.
Johan Bruyneel & Tailwind sports will argue that they had a testing
program. They will use their records to argue that they had a active
anti-doping program to deter performance enhancing drugs. Let's also
remember that the riders spend most of their time training on their
own.
Mike
15 million really did get sent to
Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
"Dr." Testa?
Again, think about the financial aspects of this story: Bruyneel
honestly believed he would start Bruyneel America, and Mesa Del
Bruyneel - an entire utopian city (population 100,000) outside of
Albuquerque New Mexico, where he would be the mayor, with a Bruyneel
cycling college, funded by the state of New Mexico (one of the poorest
states in the USA).
I'm not making any of this stuff up. These people - puppets of Thomas
Weisel really: Bruyneel, Armstrong, Ochowicz/Phonak/BMC, Gorski,
Osipow, Petty, Johnson (CEO of USA cycling), etc. - were/ARE out of
their minds. Most of this went down before the economy exploded. The
amount of money created by the Weisel project, started in 1992, is
absolutely staggering. Subaru/Montgomery/Motorola/USPS/Discovery/
Astana/Phonak/BMC/Livestrong/Radio Shack -
it's all the same people involved.
There is an argument to be made that the USPS investment (roughly 40
million) was well worth it...Americans don't care about this stuff,
they want a hero, and Weisel and Bruyneel and Ferrari created one.
Randall
if Bruyneel had any brains. $15 million is a lot of money for drugs.
The money was probably exchanged in person if such a transaction
occurred at all. The bike sales were most likely to raise extra money
for the team. Pro teams require a huge amount of money and any extra
helps.
Fred Flintstein
> Doping will never be proven, but what about the money trail? What if
> 15 million really did get sent to
> Dr. Ferrari? Why would Tailwind Sports - hypothetically - do that? Why
> would Bruyneel sell 140 Treks a year and then send all that money to a
> weird infamous Italian "doctor" when they had "Coach" Carmichael and
> "Dr." Testa?
Dumbass,
Seriously, you're a dumbass. Paying money to Dr Ferrari for
a doping program is not an illegal act. Again I say it, I
know of someone that makes a comfortable living in the US
doing that. The feds took two cracks at him, they struck out
twice. Now they leave him the hell alone.
If there is a money trail it doesn't fucking matter.
F
Anton Berlin
I agree with this POV 100% It's not about the dope - it's about all
of the crimes done to get and use the dope.
Anton Berlin
There's a money trail. It's tough to move that much cash one way or
another. Novitsky is one of the best at following money trails.
Anton Berlin
Want to bet you're totally fucking wrong ?
Trey
Testa? I've never heard his name brought up before this wrt doping.
Any links on this? BTW I agree with most everything else you posted.
Thanks for posting.