What a shame
Scott
penultimate day of his pro racing career. I can't believe he sprinted
against Simoni for the Cima Coppi. Tschopp got a well deserved stage
win, but he may not have gotten that win if he hadn't had Simoni by
his side for their break up the Gavia. Sprinting for that prize was
sort of, well, punk.
Betty Munro
You mean he deserves the chop ?
bar
i agree, it was a dick move. but then, Chopper didn't exactly have the
stage win sealed up at that point either.
seeing gibo come across the line with the fans cheering was nice
though. surely he'll end up a DS somewhere next year ...
H. Fred Kveck
bar <barba...@gmail.com> wrote:
How many languages does he speak?
bar
wrote:
> In article <f50f5ea2-f417-458a-ba57-ba7ba905d...@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
dunno. but I like what he says about that dirtbag basso
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simoni-makes-one-final-attack-in-the-mountains
p.s. CN is now clearly using 3rd graders to write their news; check
the heading "Still not no forgiveness for Basso" and the paragraph
that just mysteriously ends ...
cur...@the-md-russells.org
Gift a guy money from your pocket? Deny your sponsors and team a
prize? Why? Simoni appeared to me to be searching for some viable
tactics to win for the last couple of kilos and couldn't find one. He
won two Giros - how does winning a gifted prize amount to anything
other than an acknowledgement all around that he should have retired
before the race rather than after? If at this point in his career,
Simoni could not find a way to win a mountain stage prize, he was
undeserving.
Tell me you weren't giving Georgie a hard time for wanting his gift
last year. You should have been on Georgie's side if you are one for
gifts.
It was Tschopps' day. Good for him. And if I remember right, he went
before Simoni...
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
Scott
> On Sat, 29 May 2010 12:43:27 -0700 (PDT), Scott
>
I'm pretty sure that George wasn't riding his last race, and retiring
the next day. Oh, and it wasn't in the Tour of America (as if the US
had an equivalent of the Giro). Besides, w/out Simoni that guy would
NOT (likely) have won the stage.
Ben Trovato
Stuff and nonsense. If Simoni really needed a goodbye present, he
should have stayed on Tschopp's wheel, followed him down that mountain
and up the next one, then sprinted past him for the stage win.
Michael Press
<49461ec8-d7ad-4377...@z17g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>,
bar <barba...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anybody know the whole story of the alleged deal for the stage win?
--
Michael Press
Frederick the Great
<be18a3e6-bfc9-460c...@z15g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <hendric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 29, 5:58 pm, cur...@the-md-russells.org wrote:
> > On Sat, 29 May 2010 12:43:27 -0700 (PDT), Scott
> >
> > <hendricks_sc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >that some Swiss guy spoiled Simoni's last bid for a big prize on the
> > >penultimate day of his pro racing career. I can't believe he sprinted
> > >against Simoni for the Cima Coppi. Tschopp got a well deserved stage
> > >win, but he may not have gotten that win if he hadn't had Simoni by
> > >his side for their break up the Gavia. Sprinting for that prize was
> > >sort of, well, punk.
> >
> > Gift a guy money from your pocket? Deny your sponsors and team a
> > prize? Why? Simoni appeared to me to be searching for some viable
> > tactics to win for the last couple of kilos and couldn't find one. He
> > won two Giros - how does winning a gifted prize amount to anything
> > other than an acknowledgement all around that he should have retired
> > before the race rather than after? If at this point in his career,
> > Simoni could not find a way to win a mountain stage prize, he was
> > undeserving.
> >
> > Tell me you weren't giving Georgie a hard time for wanting his gift
> > last year. You should have been on Georgie's side if you are one for
> > gifts.
> >
> > It was Tschopps' day. Good for him. And if I remember right, he went
> > before Simoni...
>
> I'm pretty sure that George wasn't riding his last race, and retiring
> the next day. Oh, and it wasn't in the Tour of America (as if the US
> had an equivalent of the Giro). Besides, w/out Simoni that guy would
> NOT (likely) have won the stage.
Funny how Simoni can never cut a good deal for himself.
--
Old Fritz
Scott
Oh, yeah... and one other thing, a really BIG difference: to the best
of my knowledge, Simoni himself hasn't whined about this (unlike
George, who was practically in tears). It's quite a bit different for
me, as a fan, to say I don't think it was right and for Simoni himself
to have complained.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<hendric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Oh, yeah... and one other thing, a really BIG difference: to the best
>of my knowledge, Simoni himself hasn't whined about this (unlike
>George, who was practically in tears). It's quite a bit different for
>me, as a fan, to say I don't think it was right and for Simoni himself
>to have complained.
Still don't agree. Will Shaq get gifts when he announces (finally)
that he is retiring and playing his last NBA playoff? Damn, and Bret
Favre could have at least announced his retirement (again) and maybe
not been hit in the backfield on the play that may have cost his team
the Superbowl.
An athlete should retire when gifts become necessary. I don't expect
the auditors in my last year to tell me that I screwed up royally,
but, hey, you're retiring and we'll let it ride this time.
Scott
> On Sat, 29 May 2010 20:57:44 -0700 (PDT), Scott
>
Dumbass,
Given that the history of pro cycling is rife w/ "gifts" and
"arrangements", it is wholly acceptable, IMO, that Tschopp could've
done the gracious, respectful act of not sprinting Simoni for the
prize at the top of the Gavia. An act such as that is in no one
equivalent to a single play in b-ball or football that might influence
the outcome of the entire game. If you don't get that, I'm guessing
you're not much of a sportsman.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
<hendric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Dumbass,
>
>Given that the history of pro cycling is rife w/ "gifts" and
>"arrangements", it is wholly acceptable, IMO, that Tschopp could've
>done the gracious, respectful act of not sprinting Simoni for the
>prize at the top of the Gavia. An act such as that is in no one
>equivalent to a single play in b-ball or football that might influence
>the outcome of the entire game. If you don't get that, I'm guessing
>you're not much of a sportsman.
What you don't understand is that they are pros making their share of
money. Tschopp is NOT paid to give gifts. He is NOT Lance or Hinault
that has all the stage wins under his belt that he needs and he is
riding for GC. He is someone that has to earn his way and earn his
place on the team and he does it with wins. You are the one that
apparently does not know the history of 'gifts' in cycling. BTW, they
aren't as common as you seem to think, either. A true gift, versus
'you get the stage, I get the GC' is very rare. There was no quid pro
quo here and no basis for a gift.
The history of pro cycling is more of vengeance and paying debts and
having career long wars between the leading riders of any age than it
is of gifts.
Fred Flintstein
Me too! If Simoni wanted a "gift" he should have paid for
it. He thought his form was good enough to make it
unnecessary, what a shame he was wrong.
Fred Flintstein
Scott
> On Sun, 30 May 2010 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT), Scott
>
I understand all that full well. As I said, it is MY opinion that it
is a shame that Tschopp sprinted Simoni for that prize. Under the
circumstances, I think he could've/should've been more gracious. YMMV
K. Fred Gauss
You rock.
z, fred
Except that the gift in question wasn't a gc win or a stage win. Neither
of them was in contention for an overall category such as points or
mountains. "Winning" the Gavia meant held no value to anyone except Simoni.
In fact, if you put "winner of Gavia points" on your resume, people
would realize what a dork you are.
Frederick the Great
<c3800c7f-2a65-40ee...@n37g2000prc.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <hendric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
What has Tschopp won? What has Simoni won? How good is
Tschopp? Can you predict Tschopp's palmares? Suppose
Tschopp becomes a domestique and never sees another
shot at glory. Now Tschopp has the Cima Coppi prize.
_His_ name is in the record books, and he beat Gilberto
Simoni to get it. Easy choice.
--
Old Fritz
Frederick the Great
<2bc2e5e7-01a9-43f0...@p5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
Scott <hendric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It is a bicycle race. _You_ must offer a persuasive argument.
That it would make you feel good is not persuasive.
--
Old Fritz
Mark J.
I thought there was a cash prize, like the Souvenir Henri Desgranges in
the Tour, worth thousands of Euros.
> In fact, if you put "winner of Gavia points" on your resume, people
> would realize what a dork you are.
Yeah, cash means nothing to these guys. That's why they have cash prizes.
Mark J.
z, fred
YOu know it's kinda funny that Tschopp's own website doesn't even
mention winning the Coma Coppi by name.
http://www.johanntschopp.ch/index.php
This was roughly the equivalent of letting a rider get ahead so he can
give his family a kiss as they race goes through his hometown.
Anyone who puts "Winner of the 2010 Cima Coppi" on their resume can't be
taken seriously.
Betty Munro
> Anyone who puts "Winner of the 2010 Cima Coppi" on their resume can't be
> taken seriously.
You mean we can't put the town limits sprint we came in 3rd in on our
resume ? Damn, now I'll have to go redo my resume.
z, fred
I'm sure there is, unfortunately I can't seem to find what it is. How
much did Hampsten win for being first over the Gavia in '88?
>
>> In fact, if you put "winner of Gavia points" on your resume, people
>> would realize what a dork you are.
>
> Yeah, cash means nothing to these guys. That's why they have cash prizes.
>
> Mark J.
And there are never splits or conceding the cash for the placement
between breakaway partners are there, especially if you are looking at a
bigger picture, i.e. stage win?
z, fred
The best info I can find is a quote from a Velonews "live" during the
20th stage of the 2008 Giro: "You don�t get rich by winning the Giro �
first-place prize is only about 90,000 euros, which you then get to
divide among your teammates."
By comparison, Sastre won 450,000 euros for winning the Tour. The Tour
awarded (in 2008) 25,000 euro for winning the mountains classification.
Fred Flintstein
Just as a point of reference, this is how Bugno did it:
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/vuelta98/stage12.html
Got away with a small group on a stage when no one wanted to
ride hard. Talked it over, came to an understanding. Won alone.
Apparently Simoni didn't feel the need to discuss it. C'est la
vie, eh?
Fred Flintstein
Michael Press
"z, fred" <No...@not.ca> wrote:
Really? Why did Simoni want it?
--
Michael Press
Scott
> In article
> <2bc2e5e7-01a9-43f0-b58f-656c07a6d...@p5g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
Nope, I don't have to offer an argument at all, persuasive or
otherwise. I'm not trying to change your position, merely stating
mine.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
Tschopp dropped Simoni with that move and won the stage.
It was the right thing to do.
thanks,
Fred. presented by Gringioni.
z, fred
In that sense yes it was, though it didn't appear either visually or
tactically that Simoni was concerned about staying with Tschopp after
the summit.
And I don't find a quote from Simoni about wanting or not winning the
Cima Coppi, though it was written by a number of blogs and reports that
he did want it.
Scott
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Tschopp didn't drop him with
that move, he dropped him by out-descending him like it was Simoni's
first day on a bike. They both sat up briefly after the sprint.
bar
Bitch, you know you just wanted to write "Tschopp dropped" ...
Kyle Legate
> And I don't find a quote from Simoni about wanting or not winning the
> Cima Coppi, though it was written by a number of blogs and reports that
> he did want it.
"It's never easy going the long break of the day. I got in the right
break twice but it was hard all day and there was hardly time to eat. I
made some mistakes that made it even harder. On the Gavia I was focused
on winning the Cima Coppi prize, I thought it's be a nice way of bowing
out but I gave it everything and still didn't win."
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
It's bike racing. If Simoni wasn't the strongest (he wasn't), he
should've made a deal. Tschopp did nothing wrong.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
>YOu know it's kinda funny that Tschopp's own website doesn't even
>mention winning the Coma Coppi by name.
>
>http://www.johanntschopp.ch/index.php
>
>This was roughly the equivalent of letting a rider get ahead so he can
>give his family a kiss as they race goes through his hometown.
>
>Anyone who puts "Winner of the 2010 Cima Coppi" on their resume can't be
>taken seriously.
The annual Cima Coppi is considered to be a major deal in Italy, more
significant than many stage wins. Doubt they were happy that a
non-Italian won it, but it IS a big deal there.
Elsewhere, maybe not, but if you have only one pro win on your resume,
you don't ignore it or the 5,000 Euro prize.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
>Except that the gift in question wasn't a gc win or a stage win. Neither
>of them was in contention for an overall category such as points or
>mountains. "Winning" the Gavia meant held no value to anyone except Simoni.
>
>In fact, if you put "winner of Gavia points" on your resume, people
>would realize what a dork you are.
Except it is not "winner of the Gavia points", its winner of the Cima
Coppi on the 50th anniversary of his death, when the Giro has made all
things Coppi a bit more so. So, yeah, I'm guessing winning the Cima
Coppi on the 50th anniversary on the Gavia will carry some career
weight.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
>> I thought there was a cash prize, like the Souvenir Henri Desgranges in
>> the Tour, worth thousands of Euros.
>
>I'm sure there is, unfortunately I can't seem to find what it is. How
>much did Hampsten win for being first over the Gavia in '88?
The prize is for the Cima Coppi, first given in 1989. This year the
prize is 5,000 Euros. A big deal, there are bikes, jerseys, caps and
bike shops called Cima Coppi, although I don't know if it comes from
specifically the name for the highest peak in each year's Giro.
z, fred
Update from Tschopp's website:
Gotta love the Google translation, "Johann sheet of these rules..."