3...2...1
DirtRoadie
You guys are slow. (there's another Andreu story up)
OK, why did Andreu testify that he heard hospital room admissions of
LA using PED's earlier, while NOT testifying to any knowledge of LA's
PED use as a teammate?
I really don't care but I thought you would get excited about being
able to play prosecutor.
DR
LawBoy01
Laffingstock will only comment on something that sounds
incriminating. Attorneys on opposing sides do that sort of thing all
the time. You argue your case, and minimize the importance of the
evidence adduced by the other side when it's not helpful to your
case. I'm a lawyer, I've read the jury charge so to speak, and I
won't convict Lance unless his guilt is proven beyond a reasonable
doubt. Laffingstock is playing prosecutor.
BLafferty
There are athletes and, then, there are those that transcend sport.
Lance Armstrong is one of the latter. His record seven straight Tour de
France victories after coming back from cancer has become legend.
Throughout his storied career, he fought off suspicions that he cheated
by using banned drugs. Those suspicions have followed him into retirement.
According to sworn testimony reviewed by NPR, two witnesses heard
Armstrong openly acknowldege in 1996 that had used several performance
enhancing drugs. What you are about to hear are the details from that
testimony and from one witnesses who says she was there when Lance
Armstrong said he used "growth hormone, cortisone, EPO, steroids and
testosterone." Armstrong is angrily denying that the incident happened.
In October 1996, Lance Armstrong was not yet a Tour de France champion,
but he had won a couple of stages in cycling's biggest race and a 1993
road racing world championship solidified his status as an up-and-comer
on the elite cycling scene.
On Oct. 2, 1996, however, Armstrong was stopped cold by a diagnosis of
testicular cancer. Three weeks later, he had surgery to remove tumors
that had spread to his brain. On Oct. 27, a few days after surgery,
Armstrong was recovering at Indiana University Medical Center in
Indianapolis.
He was surrounded by a handful of friends in a conference room. The TV
was on. Texas-born Armstrong and a few of the others were watching a pro
football game between the Dallas Cowboys and Miami Dolphins. Among those
in the room were Frankie and Betsy Andreu. At the time they weren't yet
married; they were engaged. Frankie was Armstrong's cycling teammate.
What allegedly happened in that hospital room now raises questions about
whether Armstrong used banned drugs on his way to the pinnacle of
bicycle racing.
The Andreus testified under oath last fall about their experience in the
hospital room. It was part of a legal case involving a lawsuit Lance
Armstrong filed against a company that owed him money.
In her sworn testimony in that case, Betsy Andreu recounts what happened
after, she says, two doctors, wearing white coats and name tags, walked
into the hospital room. Andreu never identified the doctors, but says in
her testimony they were not Armstrong's two primary oncologists, or his
brain surgeon.
In her deposition, Betsy Andreu testified:
I said, I think we should leave to give you your privacy. I said
that to Lance. And Lance said, that's OK. You can stay. And I turned to
Frankie and I said, I think we should leave. And Frankie said, no, Lance
said it's OK. We can stay. And so the doctor asked him a few questions,
not many, and then one of the questions he asked was... have you ever
used any performance-enhancing drugs? And Lance said yes. And the doctor
asked, what were they? And Lance said, growth hormone, cortisone, EPO,
steroids and testosterone.
When asked last week about her testimony, Betsy Andreu said, "I answered
every question truthfully and honestly. It is 100 percent truthful."
Throughout his career, Lance Armstrong always has denied in the
strongest terms that he ever used performance-enhancing drugs.
Frankie Andreu and Armstrong were close friends over the years. They
lived and trained together in Italy in the early 1990s; they were
teammates when Armstrong won his first two Tours-de-France... in 1999
and 2000. In his deposition, Frankie Andreu expressed his reluctance at
having to testify; he was subpoenaed. But he still told the same story
as his wife about the hospital room in 1996.
This exchange is from his deposition — testimony under oath, in response
to a lawyer's questions.
QUESTION: And what is it Mr. Armstrong said in response to the
doctor asking him about use of performance-enhancing drugs?
ANDREU: I don't know how the doctor phrased the question, but
Lance's response was that he had taken EPO and testosterone and growth
hormone and cortisone.
QUESTION: Did he say when he had taken these drugs?
ANDREU: ....when the doctor proposed the question, he said, 'Have
you taken anything in the past or previous?' So obviously, it was
sometime before that point.
QUESTION: Were you surprised when Mr. Armstrong said he had taken
those various performance-enhancing drugs?
ANDREU: Yeah. I was surprised.
On the key issue of what was asked and what was said in the hospital
room, Betsy Andreu insists she heard a doctor ask about
performance-enhancing drugs, and heard Armstrong answer with a list of
banned substances. Frankie Andreu insists he heard Armstrong respond
with a list, too. Still Armstrong's lawyer, Tim Herman, says the
Andreu's could have heard wrong.
"Mr. Armstrong was taking steroids at the time, as part of his
post-operative treatment," Herman said. "It's very possible that there
could've been mention of steroids and epo in this conversation with
these two doctors indicating either the current regimen, or the regimen
that Armstrong was gonna be subject to after this surgery, or when he
got out of the hospital."
Armstrong's primary cancer doctor, Craig Nichols, submitted a sworn
affidavit in the case saying, "I have never seen any evidence, either
from myself or any other doctor, that indicates Lance Armstrong
admitted, suggested or indicated that he has ever taken
performance-enhancing drugs."
Still, what happened in that hospital room in 1996 seemed to be on
Armstrong's mind, according to Frankie Andreu's sworn deposition. In his
testimony, Andreu recalls a bike ride he and Armstrong took within a
year of the alleged hospital room incident. Andreu says Armstrong asked
how Betsy reacted to what happened in the hospital room. From the
deposition:
ANDREU: I said Betsy freaked out a little bit, and, you know, she
and I got into a couple of arguments, but then it kind of went away.
QUESTION: Did Armstrong respond or say anything further about it?
ANDREU: No. It was very short.
But according to Andreu's testimony, Armstrong came back to the issue
last year when he called Frankie Andreu just a few days before Andreu
was deposed. In his deposition, Frankie Andreu is asked "is it your
testimony that Mr. Armstrong called you and said it was his
recollection, that the hospital incident never took place or didn't
happen the way you've recollected?" Andreu answers, "Yes. Correct."
The deposition continues:
QUESTION: What did you say to him when he said that?
ANDREU: I remained quiet.
QUESTION: Did you consider it odd that he was telling you about the
hospital incident?
Andreu interrupts and says, "I considered it odd that he even
called me, because I hadn't spoken with Lance in probably two and a half
years."
Armstrong swore under oath that the hospital incident did not happen. So
did Stephanie McIlvain. In 1996, McIlvain worked for Oakley, a company
that makes sunglasses and that has sponsored Armstrong for many years.
McIlvain also was in the hospital room on Oct. 27, 1996, but in her
sworn deposition, here is what she says:
QUESTION: Were you ever at a hospital room or other part of the
hospital with Mr. Armstrong where he said anything about
performance-enhancing drugs?
MCILVAIN: No.
QUESTION: Do you have any recollection of any doctor in your
presence asking Mr. Armstrong if he used in the past any
performance-enhancing drugs or substances?
MCILVAIN: No.
McIlvain denied the hospital incident under oath in late 2005. According
to Greg LeMond, she said something completely different, the year
before. In July of 2004, former Tour de France champion Greg LeMond had
a conversation with McIlvain, in which they discussed the Indiana
hospital room incident. NPR viewed a transcript of that conversation.
Referring to Lance Armstrong's alleged admission of drug use, McIlvain
told Lemond, "I was in that room. I heard it." LeMond says McIlvain felt
Armstrong's alleged admission tarnished his legendary story about coming
back from cancer, a story that's included repeated denials of
performance-enhancing drug use. "I know that she was incredibly
disappointed," said LeMond. "She had a kid that had some disabilities,
and she was angry... that he was fooling the cancer community with his
kind of, I guess what she said lies."
LeMond's account is backed up by a veteran cycling photographer and
journalist named James Startt. He was also deposed in the case last
year. Under oath, Startt said he ran into McIlvain at the 2004 Tour de
France, and they had a brief conversation. Startt had heard about
Armstrong's alleged admission of performance-enhancing drug use. In his
testimony, Startt said "I asked her did it definitely happen. And she
said, yes it did."
NPR called McIlvain to ask about the discrepancy between her sworn
testimony and the statements by Startt and LeMond. She said she'd rather
not comment. McIlvain's lawyer said "we refuse to talk under any
circumstances."
The story of the alleged hospital room incident emerged Friday in the
French newspaper Le Monde. Within hours, Lance Armstrong released a
statement, in which he said "the latest story, which alleges an
admission of using performance enhancing drugs in a hospital in 1996, is
today as absurd and untrue as when it was first circulated years ago. It
never happened."
Several days prior to the statement, NPR sent e-mails and made phone
calls to Armstrong asking for an interview, either face-to-face or on
the telephone. Armstrong never responded, but his longtime friend and
agent Bill Stapleton did. In an e-mail, Stapleton referred NPR to
Armstrong's lawyer, and said that neither he, Stapleton, nor Armstrong,
would make themselves available for interviews about the alleged
hospital room incident. NPR did discuss the matter with Armstrong's
lawyer, Tim Herman, and examined medical records he provided.
In Armstrong's deposition from the legal case, his sworn statements are
consistent with his past denials of performance-enhancing drug use.
Under oath, Armstrong is asked, "Do you deny the statements that Ms.
Andreu attributed to you in the Indiana University hospital?" Armstrong
replies, "100 percent. Absolutely." He is then asked, "Do you also deny
what Mr. Andreu said regarding those statements?" Again Armstrong
replies, "100 percent."
The deposition continues:
QUESTION: Do you have any recollection while these individuals were
there that a doctor or doctors came into the room and discussed with you
your medical treatment or your condition?
ARMSTRONG: Absolutely not. That didn't happen.
QUESTION: Did any medical person ask you, while you were at the
Indiana University Hospital, whether you had ever used any sort of
performance-enhancing drugs or substances?
ARMSTRONG: No. Absolutely not.
Armstrong is asked if he can help explain why Betsy Andreu would make up
a story about the hospital room. Armstrong says he has no idea, other
than "she hates me."
"Lance and I used to be good friends," Betsy Andreu told NPR. "I would
go to his house and I would cook for him; I would talk to him on the
phone about baby questions; I used to go out to dinner with Frankie and
Lance and Kristin, often." Kristin was Armstrong's first wife. Betsy
Andreu acknowledges that over the years, her friendship with Lance
Armstrong soured. But she says that doesn't mean she would do something,
in her words, so reprehensible as make up a story about the hospital
room. "I'm sorry that it upsets him so much that I refuse to lie under
oath. I was always going to tell the truth," she said.
When asked about Frankie Andreu's testimony, Lance Armstrong rejects it,
saying in his deposition he thinks Andreu was trying to back up his wife.
The case involving all this sworn testimony grew out of a lawsuit
Armstrong filed in 2004. He sued a company, called SCA, that had
promised in a contract to pay Armstrong a $5 million bonus if he won his
sixth straight Tour de France in 2004. He did win, but SCA withheld the
bonus after new doping allegations against Armstrong surfaced that same
year. A panel of arbitrators ultimately ruled in Armstrong's favor. SCA
was forced to pay the $5 million bonus, plus $2.5 million more. SCA
contends it lost because the bonus contract was poorly written, and not
because SCA failed to prove Armstrong had cheated by using banned
substances.
But Armstrong's attorney Tim Herman says the outcome had everything to
do with doping. "Had they concluded that Lance Armstrong had cheated, we
would not be in possession of a $7.5 million award," said Herman. "The
issue, and the proof related to Armstrong's use or non-use of
performance-enhancing drugs was the controlling issue in the case."
The dispute was resolved early this year, but the issue of whether or
not Armstrong ever took performance-enhancing drugs still is unresolved
for some, particularly Betsy Andreu. The stay-at-home mother of three
kids remains adamant about what she says she heard on Oct. 27, 1996.
Armstrong remains busy in his retirement, spending time at celebrity
events and raising money and awareness about cancer research. He no
longer battles opponents on the steep mountain climbs of the Tour de
France, but Armstrong still finds himself fighting, in court and in the
media, to preserve his legacy.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5508863
LawBoy01
Nothing new. Conflicting testimony about something that's not
relevant in any way to anything under legitimate investigation.
You're just a lame, washed-up hack with an animus-induced hard-on for
Lance.
Regards,
Philip
Anton Berlin
But certainly you have an open enough mind to see why Stephanie would
have changed her story based on pressure from employer and her need
for good insurance for her child?
And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you ever
heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without reservation on
practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on any
matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
Magilla Gorilla
> Oh C'mon, Lafferty and Magilla
> You guys are slow. (there's another Andreu story up)
>
> OK, why did Andreu testify that he heard hospital room admissions of
> LA using PED's earlier, while NOT testifying to any knowledge of LA's
> PED use as a teammate?
Because that's exactly what he heard and saw. Landis is the one who
actually 'saw' LA get blood transfusions.
Magilla
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:3c780a2a-83d9-4727...@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
You've never met her, you don't reference knowing anything about her from
any other source than a radio interview(s), and that was enough that you
would "trust her without reservation on practically any matter."
That blows me away. I have no reason not to trust her, but it takes more
than a good radio interview for me to trust someone (or something) "without
rservation."
I haven't heard the interviews, but am certainly curious to now, since it
appears she's capable of casting one heck of a spell over people.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
William Fred
news:bMadndbLYucXROLR...@earthlink.com:
> "Anton Berlin" <truth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c780a2a-83d9-4727...@x42g2000yqx.googlegroups.com.
>
>> And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you ever
>> heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without reservation on
>> practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on any
>> matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
>
> You've never met her, you don't reference knowing anything about her
> from any other source than a radio interview(s), and that was enough
> that you would "trust her without reservation on practically any
> matter."
She's never really hurt him, bro.
--
Bill Asher
Fred Fredburger
So THAT'S how she got my credit card numbers!
Magilla Gorilla
Dumbass,
The circumstantial evidence is enough to convict Lance "beyond a
reasonable doubt." Although Lance's burden will be even higher since most
jurors are star-struck douchebags who are probably yellow bracelet
wearers.
Magilla
P.S. The burden of proof for USADA is only "to a reasonable satisfaction."
Magilla Gorilla
It goes to Lance's credibility. It also shows he engaged in perjury
during his deposition with SCA and that Oakley engaged in suborning
perjury when they threatened McIlvain's job as well as that of her
husbands unless she signed an affidavit that went along with the
official LA story.
Then there's the question of why you think Betsy and Frankie would lie
about something like this. If Frankie were going to lie, he would
simply say he actually SAW Lance doing EPO and blood transfusions. Why
invent this bizarre story where you merely heard him say he did while
he's hooked up to an IV pole in an Indiana hospital in 1996? If the
Andreu's are lying it's the most bizarre lie in the world.
And I suppose Stephanie McIlvain was also lying when she spoke to Greg
LeMond on the telephone that one day - her recording now etched in
stone.....and that McIlvain also lied to the photographer who also went
on record as saying she heard McIlvain admit it to him. So now you got
McIlvain (Lance's agent with no motive to lie whatsoever) and both
Andreu's. That's 3 fucking people with no motive to lie all saying the
same thing.
If the feds decide to file RICO charges, then LA's conduct going back in
the early 1990's will be relevant as will his credibility in the SCA
depositions.
Thanks,
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
I don't care that you're playing devil's advocate, but you better not actually
be insinuating that you don't think Lance is guilty as shit and a major league
liar. Lance doped hundreds of times throughout his career. If you can't see
that, then there's something seriously wrong with you.
And don't talk about Betsy Andreu unless you explain to me how come Stephanie
McIlvain said she heard the same thing. She's Lance's fucking agent at Oakley
for crying out loud. What motivation does she have to lie?
And then you also have to explain why Frankie Andreu is lying. For you to
simply make it sound like Betsy is the only one saying it....you're not
entitled to change the facts. And the facts are that 3 people said they heard
Lance say it.
You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
Good luck - you'll need it,
Magilla
--D-y
Betsy's motivation (and avowed hatred of Lance) could be seen to arise
from her fear of seeing her meal ticket and stud-muffin hubby lying
(so to speak) in the same bed as Lance, health ruined because of
doping programs "enforced" by Lance & Co.
IOW, "It's Not About the Cheating".
OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
wherever he appears.
Does he have another card or two to play besides pitch-forking Weisel
over to the Feds? (ha ha, spel checur said "weasle")
I drove by his Austin residence the other day; no "For Sale Price
Reduced" signs out front as of yet.
--D-y
Fred Flintstein
> You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
>
> Good luck - you'll need it,
Dumbass,
It's all he said/she said. Your late season form sucks.
You should be posting about the Vuelta, tuning up for
Worlds.
Fred Flintstein
RicodJour
wrote:
> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
>
> > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
>
> > Good luck - you'll need it,
>
> You should be posting about the Vuelta, tuning up for
> Worlds.
Can we contact his doctor and get his meds changed? He was a lot
funnier and more acerbic on the previous regimen...on the bright side,
his reasoning always was for shit.
R
DA74
wrote:
Good point. No one's ever been indicted let alone convicted on "he
said/she said" evidence. With guys like you on his side, Lance is sure
to skate through this FDA, Fed, Justice Dept and Postal Inspector
investigation. I'll just go ahead and shut the fuck up if you don't
mind.
Frederick the Great
<a4c1bc5a-82bd-43a2...@l20g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
His reasoning is fine. Even when people mostly agree
with him he treats everybody as oblivious idiots.
When he is wrong he never owns up. Fortress mentality.
--
Old Fritz
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:4C825986...@sandiegozoo.org...
No playing devil's advocate involved. I'm just pointing out how people
see & hear what they want to, on both sides, and become binary. No more
reasoning involved. No gray areas. At some point they made up their
minds about the final outcome, and construct their own scenario of
everything in-between.
C'mon, wrap your brain around this-
>> > And Betsy has always been steadfast and consistent - have you ever
>> > heard the radio interviews? I would trust her without reservation
>> > on
>> > practically any matter while I don't think I'd trust Lance on any
>> > matter all the way down to pet-sitting a goldfish.
Sure, I might not trust Lance with my goldfish either (if I had one).
Could turn out that goldfish are a masking agent for all I know. But how
did Betsy Andreu cast such a spell over that poster?
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Magilla Gorilla
Fred Flintstein wrote:
> Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> > You've got to shred the credibility of 3 people, not one.
> >
> > Good luck - you'll need it,
>
> Dumbass,
>
> It's all he said/she said. Your late season form sucks.
> Fred Flintstein
So are most criminal trials.
Thanks,
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
You keep trying to make the entire case contingent on Betsy Andreu, and it's
not. It's about Stephanie McIlvain...Frankie Andreu..Emma O'Reilly..Fraud
Landis...the 8 positive EPO tests from the '99 Tour...the Ferrari
association....and whoever else came clean in the grand jury proceedings. When
all is said and done, there will be like 9 Betsy Andreu's. The circumstantial
evidence against Lance is overwhelming.
Didn't you ever ask yourself why Lance really chased down Simeoni that one day
in the Tour? That was a Tony Soprano mob hit by the GodFather himself. Lance
is a kingpin doper.
And now the public knows.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
RicodJour wrote:
It's the off-season, cockmeat. The only race left is Univest..and
Eustice puts up the barriers to the finishing circuits with 40K to go
just so the jackasses in Souderton can watch the Garmin B-team go around
in circles for an hour, most of whom don't even know who's leading the
goddamn thing.
Magilla
BLafferty
>
> Sure, I might not trust Lance with my goldfish either (if I had one).
> Could turn out that goldfish are a masking agent for all I know. But how
> did Betsy Andreu cast such a spell over that poster?
By telling a truth substantiated by two other witnesses in the room and
two to whom McIlvain admitted the truth she saw/heard before lying under
oath.
Magilla Gorilla
> Betsy's motivation (and avowed hatred of Lance) could be seen to arise
> from her fear of seeing her meal ticket and stud-muffin hubby lying
> (so to speak) in the same bed as Lance, health ruined because of
> doping programs "enforced" by Lance & Co.
> IOW, "It's Not About the Cheating".
>
No, that doesn't sound plauisble to me. Betsy hates Lance because he's a douchebag
and a thug. And getting her husband fired from Postal..and then Toyota..and then
trying the same thing with Versus (Lance made the call but Versus opted not to fire
him).
Plus, she knew Lance was a doper the entire time since that '96 Indiana hospital
room visit and all she sees on TV and the Internets is this guy who claims to be
anti-doper and all about cancer...the reality is he likely gave himself cancer and
then profitted off the corruption of lying about it and continued to dope. She
knws the entire Lance persona and image is just a big lie.
>
> OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
> wherever he appears.
Lance does not look confident at all. Didn't you see the Tour this year or notice
that he pulled out of Leadville? The guy looks like Danielson on a bike. As for
the adoring fans, they are all clueless motherfuckers no different than the 900
people who followed Jim Jones down to Guyana. If you go to a professional bike
race you would have a tough time finding one rider or person on a team wearing a
yellow bracelet. Most people hate Lance for being a thug and an ambassador of
fraud (everyone in pro cycling knows LA is a bullshit artist). Now that the public
is finding out who Lance and his entourage really are, those fans left are
basically the bottom of the barrel.
>
> Does he have another card or two to play besides pitch-forking Weisel
> over to the Feds? (ha ha, spel checur said "weasle")
I don't think Weisel was the guy behind the doping program. I think it was
Bruyneel and Lance doing it. Weisel is a fraud, no doubt, but I don't see the
doping program being his invention. Maybe someone like Stapleton and Carmichael
knew about it, but....
>
>
> I drove by his Austin residence the other day; no "For Sale Price
> Reduced" signs out front as of yet.
> --D-y
Who the fuck wants to live in Austin? Austin is still in Texas which means it's a
fucked up place to live. Texas is all about football, chearleadin' and the
Bible....it's one of the most fucked up states in the country.
Magilla
Mike Jacoubowsky
No no no!!! I am not trying to make the entire case contingent on
ANYBODY. I'm saying that people are nuts here, putting all their trust
into something they have no reason to put *all* of their trust into,
whether that's Lance or Betsy or Floyd or whomever. "I would trust her
without reservation on practically any matter" based upon a radio
interview, is what one poster said. That's as ridiculous as trusting Al
Gore in the same way because of a stump speech on global warming. Or
that church guy in Colorado Springs who says he's seen the light now and
you can trust him because he knows what it is to have sinned and won't
sin again. Yeah right. Is this really something you disagree with?
Regarding Lance and Simeoni, yeah, I just happened to be there when it
played out. Pretty funny. Your interpretation is reasonable, as are many
others in which Lance was simply putting his foot down as Godfather on
principle because Simeoni was a whiner. Whatever. Was it really much
different than the crap that Hinault used to pull? Don't know, I wasn't
there. Just heard stories.
"And now the public knows."
Baloney. The public knows nothing yet. Just because people have taken
sides and believe, doesn't mean they know. It will come out though. And
I'm feeling pretty good about detaching myself emotionally from the
outcome some time ago. One of my better decisions.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> race you would have a tough time finding one rider or person on a team
> wearing a
> yellow bracelet.
Rodriguez, Kreuzinger, Anton, Cuesta, just to name a few in the Vuelta
who are.
Your point is valid; far fewer wear yellow now than before. But they're
not difficult to find. Once again, exagerration hurts the point
someone's trying to make.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Magilla Gorilla" <m.go...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
news:4C83BB83...@sandiegozoo.org...
Fredmaster of Brainerd
>
> Didn't you ever ask yourself why Lance really chased down Simeoni that one day
> in the Tour? That was a Tony Soprano mob hit by the GodFather himself. Lance
> is a kingpin doper.
>
> And now the public knows.
And the public doesn't give a crap. Sure, it would scare
off some of the namby-pambier sponsors, and Jeff Novitsky
cares so LANCE might go to jail, but: The public has spoken.
I'd think you'd approve of whacking Simeoni, because,
you know, no gifts.
Fredmaster Ben
DA74
> By telling a truth substantiated by two other witnesses in the room and
> two to whom McIlvain admitted the truth she saw/heard before lying under
> oath.
>
Exactly counselor. And instead of arguing with Lafferty and my gorilla
brother, maybe all the rest of you nonbelieving fucktards should
actually listen to Stephanie McIlvain say these things in her own
words. Among other things she outlines to Lemond that he's a doper,
bad father, angry prick, cheater, drug addict and outright fraud. It's
pretty good stuff.
Her only job was to be his agent at Oakley. I've just outlined a small
portion. She also wonders how Hincapie's baby could possibly be
healthy after all the drugs he took.
Here's the link you jagoffs:
--D-y
> --D-y wrote:
> > Betsy's motivation (and avowed hatred of Lance) could be seen to arise
> > from her fear of seeing her meal ticket and stud-muffin hubby lying
> > (so to speak) in the same bed as Lance, health ruined because of
> > doping programs "enforced" by Lance & Co.
> > IOW, "It's Not About the Cheating".
>
> No, that doesn't sound plauisble to me. Betsy hates Lance because he's a douchebag
> and a thug. And getting her husband fired from Postal..and then Toyota..and then
> trying the same thing with Versus (Lance made the call but Versus opted not to fire
> him).
The hate was pre-firings (the Andreus were in the hospital room before
the TdF-apalooza began).
I'm sticking with my story. Your's is like, gravy or icing or
something-- so to speak.
> Plus, she knew Lance was a doper the entire time since that '96 Indiana hospital
> room visit and all she sees on TV and the Internets is this guy who claims to be
> anti-doper and all about cancer...the reality is he likely gave himself cancer and
> then profitted off the corruption of lying about it and continued to dope. She
> knws the entire Lance persona and image is just a big lie.
I think she might have known or suspected and I think it's a health
thing IRT meal ticket/stud service.
> > OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
> > wherever he appears.
>
> Lance does not look confident at all. Didn't you see the Tour this year or notice
> that he pulled out of Leadville?
I think he hit the age where his eyesight lost some sharpness, as well
as the reflexes and no, he hasn't looked real brave on the bike for
awhile-- maybe since retirement.
I think he hurt his hip in one of the TdF falls, real enough there.
Like when he got tangled in a later fall, started to bend over to get
his bike loose and thought better of it?
Maybe I'm projecting on that point...
> The guy looks like Danielson on a bike. As for
> the adoring fans, they are all clueless motherfuckers no different than the 900
> people who followed Jim Jones down to Guyana. If you go to a professional bike
> race you would have a tough time finding one rider or person on a team wearing a
> yellow bracelet. Most people hate Lance for being a thug and an ambassador of
> fraud (everyone in pro cycling knows LA is a bullshit artist). Now that the public
> is finding out who Lance and his entourage really are, those fans left are
> basically the bottom of the barrel.
I think the Jones comparison is a little extreme.
> > Does he have another card or two to play besides pitch-forking Weisel
> > over to the Feds? (ha ha, spel checur said "weasle")
>
> I don't think Weisel was the guy behind the doping program. I think it was
> Bruyneel and Lance doing it. Weisel is a fraud, no doubt, but I don't see the
> doping program being his invention. Maybe someone like Stapleton and Carmichael
> knew about it, but....
Maybe there's enough fiscal malfeasance by Weisel (and not just the
cycling stuff) that he is good trade material (thinking of the
Novitsky MO here)? I wouldn't pretend to know, I just read in here
that he's no stranger to attention from regulators.
> Who the fuck wants to live in Austin? Austin is still in Texas which means it's a
> fucked up place to live. Texas is all about football, chearleadin' and the
> Bible....it's one of the most fucked up states in the country.
I want to live in Austin, Magilla. It's a small island of sanity
(depending on whom you ask, of course) in one of the most fucked-up
states in the country. I mostly fly in and out.
I lived in Houston for almost four years. Now, you want to talk about
really screwed, except for the museums and some of the schools...
--D-y
DA74
Here's the source link on CN:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=9956
--D-y
> > OTOH, Lance continues to look confident and draw adoring crowds
> > wherever he appears.
>
> Lance does not look confident at all.
Missed this point, previous post.
I meant "socially confident", like in that ride wherever it was with
the multitudes recently.
Still playin' the part.
No, not confident on the bike. Rust plus eyesight acuity loss plus
lacking motivation to take chances. Winning seven and being rich will
do that to you.
--D-y
DirtRoadie
> "Magilla Gorilla" <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote in message
>
> news:4C83C089...@sandiegozoo.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> >>news:4C825986...@sandiegozoo.org...
> >> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
Mike -
Thanks for presenting a truly rational perspective.
I, too, have no dog in the fight and am waiting to see how this whole
thing plays out. There are lots of possibilities. And while it is of
some interest, I have little interest in the threads that encourage
the zealots. Geez, they sound like damn high school cheerleaders. Or
some recently converted religious zealot who is eager to share his/her
"truth" with you.
I don't know the C. Springs individual you refer to but the MO is
common. "My old religion was wrong, so YOU need to share my new one."
Or, in simplified form "YOU need to embrace MY faith."
Anyhow, I feel bad about even starting this thread since I don't think
there is much to actually be discussed here- it's much more a matter
of waiting to see what happens and that can be readily done with
ordinary news sources. But, regardless, the same stuff would be
popping up daily (or more often) anyhow since the individuals that we
all know and love will not let the matter rest without expressing
their perspective at least daily, even though they do little more than
repeat their well established mantra over and over and over and
over.....
DR
Frederick the Great
<74b846fa-3266-434a...@m17g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
DA74 <davida...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 5, 8:22 am, BLafferty <Br...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > By telling a truth substantiated by two other witnesses in the room and
> > two to whom McIlvain admitted the truth she saw/heard before lying under
> > oath.
> >
>
> Exactly counselor. And instead of arguing with Lafferty and my gorilla
> brother, maybe all the rest of you nonbelieving
Is it about belief? I do not believe.
> fucktards should
> actually listen to Stephanie McIlvain say these things in her own
> words. Among other things she outlines to Lemond that he's a doper,
> bad father, angry prick, cheater, drug addict and outright fraud. It's
> pretty good stuff.
>
> Her only job was to be his agent at Oakley. I've just outlined a small
> portion. She also wonders how Hincapie's baby could possibly be
> healthy after all the drugs he took.
Oh. I've changed my mind. Now I believe.
>
> Here's the link you jagoffs:
>
> http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3
--
Old Fritz
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> Exactly counselor. And instead of arguing with Lafferty and my gorilla
>> brother, maybe all the rest of you nonbelieving
Frederick the Great wrote:
> Is it about belief? I do not believe.
The X-Files is so nineties.