Lance Is A Fucking Retard - This Proves It
Zenon
Simply Fred
> http://twitter.com/#!/lancearmstrong/status/66667319073574912
But when did HE "pocket dial" Ferrari ?
Unless of course he uses Fuentes codes for his contacts in which case he
would have pocket dialed Lamborghini.
Anton Berlin
> http://twitter.com/#!/lancearmstrong/status/66667319073574912
Strange coincidence - the greatest cycling fraud of all time dials the
2nd greatest cycling fraud of all time.
--D-y
What about Merckx, Hinault, Anquetil, Lemond, etc. etc.?
--D-y
BL
All pre-EPO. Some will argue Lemond wasn't an EPO user. My quess is that
he used steroids.
Ronsonic
"BL" <B...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ieOdnRuA_ORAHVjQ...@giganews.com...
So EPO is cheating, but amphetamines, cocaine, steroids and blood packing
aren't?
BL
I didn't say that, you did. It's all cheating. The advent of EPO
marked a dramatic increase in athletic performance compared to those
quaint pre-EPO era preparations. Steroids still play an important part
in recover for a cheater, but what increases the performance is extra
red blood cells whether from EPO or blood transfusion. Give Tyler a
call and he'll explain it. Bring back the Pot Belge.
Anton Berlin
We all know what Jiri, Eddie, Chris et al did to improve promising
cyclists - everyfuckingthing they could.
Boosting for certain, steroids and masking agents highly likely,
amphetamines not so likely , strychnine unlikely.
Less than a year ago I tried to explain that Lemond was the last clean
winner of the Tour. I couldn't even complete the sentence without
realizing I was lying to her.
Fuck em all.
RicodJour
>
> Less than a year ago I tried to explain that Lemond was the last clean
> winner of the Tour. I couldn't even complete the sentence without
> realizing I was lying to her.
>
> Fuck em all.
Good first step. The next step is to realize you're lying to
yourself.
R
RBR 12 Steps Facilitator
Substance McGravitas
Including blood doping changes the timeline in ways that you don't
obviously understand. EPO was available in the late '80s but blood
doping has been around (and effective!) since the early '70s. Google
"Lasse Viren", if you care to be educated. When you change your argument
like this, you blow any argument for Lemond's cleanliness that depends
on the lack of effective cheating methods. It is arguably possible
(however unlikely) that Lemond finished his career completely ignorant
of the existence of EPO. The same cannot be said for blood doping. It
was available, widely used, and there was no test.
Anton Berlin
> All pre-EPO. Some will argue Lemond wasn't an EPO user. My quess is that
> he used steroids.
Brian - I first had access to EPO in the fall of 1989. If I recall
correctly, at least 2 members of the 1990 Dutch TTT team died in their
sleep from 'thick blood' by 1991.
Lemond probably had the chance to extend his career (like some other
American cyclists have) by using EPO. (and may have in 1990 but
perhaps it didn't agree with him) Recall that he had the access to
the best drs and coaching in the world at that time and his salary and
endorsements were the highest of any cyclist.
Anyone with any knowledge knew that Indurain was loaded to the gills
with it by the time the 1991 TDF was complete.
Lemond's boosting alone probably wouldn't have been able to keep up
with MI's EPO use.
BL
I am very much aware of that. You do recall the blood doping in 1984 in
LA don't you? We discussed the availability of EPO in the late 1980s,
but from the increase in performance levels it seems likely that 1990-91
was when it really became prevalent. I suppose you recall all those
young Dutch cyclists dying in their sleep that Dopey Hein said had
nothing to do with EPO.
> Google
> "Lasse Viren", if you care to be educated. When you change your argument
> like this, you blow any argument for Lemond's cleanliness that depends
> on the lack of effective cheating methods.
I haven't seen much at all to indicate that Euro cyclists in the pro
ranks were using blood doping with any regularity in the late
1980s--early 1990s. Have you?
>It is arguably possible
> (however unlikely) that Lemond finished his career completely ignorant
> of the existence of EPO. The same cannot be said for blood doping. It
> was available, widely used, and there was no test.
If Lemond were blood doping in 1990+, one would expect that he would
have had better results and would not have found himself struggling to
keep up with the increasing speeds of the peloton. Be that as it may,
the circumstantial evidence of his using steroids is to be found in his
developing mitochondria myopathy. A common, known side effect of
steroid abuse is this condition. The only other etiology for MM is
hereditary disposition which did not exist in his family. Also, his
treating endocrinologist, a woman doctor whose name I don't recall,
stated publicly that his MM was not caused by lead in his system from
the hunting accident.
Cheating is cheating, no matter what illegal method is used.
Historically in cycling, EPO followed by blood doping post-EPO test is
the main time-line.
BL
>
>> All pre-EPO. Some will argue Lemond wasn't an EPO user. My quess is that
>> he used steroids.
>
> Brian - I first had access to EPO in the fall of 1989. If I recall
> correctly, at least 2 members of the 1990 Dutch TTT team died in their
> sleep from 'thick blood' by 1991.
See my post above. I think it likely that even if Lemond had wanted to
use EPO in 1990-93, he would not have given what he was struggling with,
MM. There were more than just a couple of dead Dutch riders.
>
> Lemond probably had the chance to extend his career (like some other
> American cyclists have) by using EPO. (and may have in 1990 but
> perhaps it didn't agree with him) Recall that he had the access to
> the best drs and coaching in the world at that time and his salary and
> endorsements were the highest of any cyclist.
It seems that for many of the cyclists of that era, EPO was some sort of
bright line they would not easily cross. As I've posted, it appears that
the circumstantial evidence of Lemond abusing steroids makes that more
likely.
>
> Anyone with any knowledge knew that Indurain was loaded to the gills
> with it by the time the 1991 TDF was complete.
Mig?? I'm shocked. According to Joe Freil it has to do with losing
weight and better efficiency on the bike. No? ;-)
>
> Lemond's boosting alone probably wouldn't have been able to keep up
> with MI's EPO use.
Or Mr. 60%.
Scott
>Be that as it may,
> the circumstantial evidence of his using steroids is to be found in his
> developing mitochondria myopathy. A common, known side effect of
> steroid abuse is this condition. The only other etiology for MM is
> hereditary disposition which did not exist in his family. Also, his
> treating endocrinologist, a woman doctor whose name I don't recall,
> stated publicly that his MM was not caused by lead in his system from
> the hunting accident.
Can you post a link or two to a peer-reviewed paper that shows that
mitochondrial myopathy is, or may be, caused by steroid use?
TIA
Choppy Warburton
>
> Can you post a link or two to a peer-reviewed paper that shows that
> mitochondrial myopathy is, or may be, caused by steroid use?
BL
It's in any good Internal Medicine book. IIRC, I found it in Clinton's
Internal Medicine around 1994.
Fred Flintstein
Is it really that fucking difficult to admit that
you can't provide a link?
Fred Flintstein
BL
I don't have a link to the Clinton text. I read it in the days before
such things were on line.
Fred Flintstein
Dumbass,
That's not what was asked for. But you knew
that. Shit like this is why no one can take
you seriously.
Fred Flintstein
BL
Fredmaster of Brainerd
You could try using PubMed to find an article that discusses it.
Try searching PubMed for "steroid induced myopathy."
Good luck,
Fredmaster Ben
Scott
I've done a little searching, and it seems that while I can find
articles on corticosteroid induced myopathy, I can't find anything on
anabolic steroid induced myopathy. If someone (BL, are you listening)
has a link, please share. BTW, BL... are you suggesting that Lemond
was 'doping' w/ corticosteroids?
Anton Berlin
> was 'doping' w/ corticosteroids?
If it was good enough for Lance it's good enough for Lemond.
PS Dumbass Scott - corticosteroids are very popular in cycling and
have been for some time
Frederick the Great
<72620697-b0e6-4d6b...@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Thanks a lot. The gig is up and we'll be buried in
papers showing a causal link from use of anabolic
steroids to mitochondrial myopathy.
--
Old Fritz
Fredmaster of Brainerd
> In article
> <72620697-b0e6-4d6b-bd7b-8ccb353d2...@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Not until Tuesday.
Fredmaster Ben