Thor made me thankful
Ryan Cousineau
when I read this article:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-i-have-never-seen-drugs-in-cycling
Not for the "I haven't seen drugs" part, because I'm credulous enough
to buy that. It was for the "they don't help sprinters" part, which
makes me wonder if he's ever heard of steroids.
Carl Sundquist
> Today is Thanksgiving*, and I'm thankful I wasn't drinking anything
> when I read this article:
>
>
> Not for the "I haven't seen drugs" part, because I'm credulous enough
> to buy that. It was for the "they don't help sprinters" part, which
> makes me wonder if he's ever heard of steroids.
Oxygen transport helps get you to the last 200 meters as well. The
Italian authorities seem bent on nailing Petacchi again.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:772f02f3-a6d8-45d0...@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
It's amazing that someone like Thor can manage to come across as innocently
ignorant as he does. He seems quite believable. I hope that's really the
case.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
RicodJour
wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:772f02f3-a6d8-45d0...@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Today is Thanksgiving*, and I'm thankful I wasn't drinking anything
> > when I read this article:
>
>
> > Not for the "I haven't seen drugs" part, because I'm credulous enough
> > to buy that. It was for the "they don't help sprinters" part, which
> > makes me wonder if he's ever heard of steroids.
>
> It's amazing that someone like Thor can manage to come across as innocently
> ignorant as he does. He seems quite believable. I hope that's really the
> case.
He does have a point, though. Every GT cyclist would benefit from
EPO, but as far as I know, there's no drug that will convert slow-
twitch to fast-twitch.
I like his comment about the partying, implying it's not possible to
have more fun than he has. Scandinavian women...sigh.
R
Ryan Cousineau
> On Oct 11, 8:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:772f02f3-a6d8-45d0...@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Today is Thanksgiving*, and I'm thankful I wasn't drinking anything
> > > when I read this article:
>
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-i-have-never-seen-drugs-in-cy...
>
> > > Not for the "I haven't seen drugs" part, because I'm credulous enough
> > > to buy that. It was for the "they don't help sprinters" part, which
> > > makes me wonder if he's ever heard of steroids.
>
> > It's amazing that someone like Thor can manage to come across as innocently
> > ignorant as he does. He seems quite believable. I hope that's really the
> > case.
>
> He does have a point, though. Every GT cyclist would benefit from
> EPO, but as far as I know, there's no drug that will convert slow-
> twitch to fast-twitch.
Darned near every short-distance runner in pro athletics was accused
of steroid use in the late 1980s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Johnson_(sprinter)#Olympic_scandal
I assume those benefits would translate well for cycling sprinters.
In a theoretical (ha!) all-drug TdF, you'd expect the green jersey and
stage hunters to go with at least EPO (to make surviving the mountains
stages easier, and maybe as a defensive time-cut tactic in the face of
rocket-fuelled GC/climbers) and steroids, and probably a goofy
stimulant (cocaine?) for the final bottle.
They've already done gene-doping experiments on mice that go the other
way, encouraging the development of slow-twitch fibers ("marathon
mice"):
The fast-twitch enhancement seems like a natural successor to that
project.
> I like his comment about the partying, implying it's not possible to
> have more fun than he has. Scandinavian women...sigh.
He needs a LIVEDRUNK wristband.
The "triathlon mice" could sustain a high effort even longer, but kept
falling off the exercise wheel,
Kurgan Gringioni
"RicodJour" <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:34f1791c-de12-4550...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 11, 8:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:772f02f3-a6d8-45d0...@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Today is Thanksgiving*, and I'm thankful I wasn't drinking anything
> > when I read this article:
>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-i-have-never-seen-drugs-in-cy...
>
> > Not for the "I haven't seen drugs" part, because I'm credulous enough
> > to buy that. It was for the "they don't help sprinters" part, which
> > makes me wonder if he's ever heard of steroids.
>
> It's amazing that someone like Thor can manage to come across as
> innocently
> ignorant as he does. He seems quite believable. I hope that's really the
> case.
:: He does have a point, though. Every GT cyclist would benefit from
:: EPO, but as far as I know, there's no drug that will convert slow-
:: twitch to fast-twitch.
Dumbass -
Bad, bad rationalization.
The sprints come after 200k of racing. Match sprinters don't compete well in
road races because they don't have the endurance/recovery. Blood boosting
helps with all that.
The sprinters aren't any cleaner than any other type of rider.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Grignioni.
Anton Berlin
But yes fellow dumbasses you need the blood/oxygen to deliver you to
the line in order to make 'sprinting' worth while.
The fact that a fast twitch muscle head is even in the hunt indicates
doping.
Thor is being bull simple and Jabouskey dreams - hopes and fantasizes
that all cyclists are clean.
RicodJour
wrote:
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:34f1791c-de12-4550...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 11, 8:47 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Ryan Cousineau" <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:772f02f3-a6d8-45d0...@l14g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Today is Thanksgiving*, and I'm thankful I wasn't drinking anything
> > > when I read this article:
>
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hushovd-i-have-never-seen-drugs-in-cy...
>
> > > Not for the "I haven't seen drugs" part, because I'm credulous enough
> > > to buy that. It was for the "they don't help sprinters" part, which
> > > makes me wonder if he's ever heard of steroids.
>
> > It's amazing that someone like Thor can manage to come across as
> > innocently
> > ignorant as he does. He seems quite believable. I hope that's really the
> > case.
>
> :: He does have a point, though. Every GT cyclist would benefit from
> :: EPO, but as far as I know, there's no drug that will convert slow-
> :: twitch to fast-twitch.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Bad, bad rationalization.
You wound me. Take it up with Thor...and wear your Farraday cage
shorts in case he gets mad.
It's not my rationalization, and Thor does have a point.
> The sprints come after 200k of racing. Match sprinters don't compete well in
> road races because they don't have the endurance/recovery. Blood boosting
> helps with all that.
Blood boosting? As in autologous transfusion? That's not a drug. Re-
read what Thor said. He dances a line that equates doping with
drugs. This is what skillful communicators do - they allow you to
make your assumption without ever nailing themselves down so they can
deny it later on.
The thing you should have picked up on is this, "I have never seen
drugs in the cycling scene, and never in the evenings in the urban
environment, so to speak,” WTF? That is simply impossible. You're
not in control of things when you walk into a bathroom at a nightclub,
and all the girls he's banging are probably on E anyway. To say he's
never seen drugs in an urban environment beggars belief.
> The sprinters aren't any cleaner than any other type of rider.
Really...?! Thanks for belaboring the obvious.
If you'd mentioned LANCE I would have thought L'Enemafferty spoofed
your moniker.
R
RicodJour
> Henry - I'm glad you wrote it so I didn't have to.
>
> But yes fellow dumbasses you need the blood/oxygen to deliver you to
> the line in order to make 'sprinting' worth while.
Like you've never sprinted for 23rd.
> The fact that a fast twitch muscle head is even in the hunt indicates
> doping.
On this we agree. Either that, or they avoid ice cream and swimming.
> Thor is being bull simple and Jabouskey dreams - hopes and fantasizes
> that all cyclists are clean.
Another reading-impaired post. Sigh...what is our education system
doing to our ute?
R
Beloved Fred No. 1
>> Henry - I'm glad you wrote it so I didn't have to.
>>
>> But yes fellow dumbasses you need the blood/oxygen to deliver you to
>> the line in order to make 'sprinting' worth while.
RicodJour wrote:
> Like you've never sprinted for 23rd.
He sprints for 69th.
Kyle Legate
>
> They've already done gene-doping experiments on mice that go the other
> way, encouraging the development of slow-twitch fibers ("marathon
> mice"):
>
> http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/vecase/SeniorColloquium/04/Genetic%
20Testing/genedopingbiology.htm
>
> The fast-twitch enhancement seems like a natural successor to that
> project.
>
The "marathon mouse" would not work in humans, unless the athlete is a
test tube baby. The problem with this approach is that every muscle cell
would have to express the "marathon mouse" gene (PPARdelta, a
transcription factor), so introducing this to an athlete once they have
already developed would be of little use. Effective gene doping will
involve soluble molecules that can be released and used systemically,
like EPO and IGF. Versions of these genes can be introduced to the
athlete's own cells ex vivo and injected into an innocuous part of the
body (a fat pad, or the sole of the foot) and doping control, even if
they are allowed to take biopsy samples for testing, would be extremely
hard pressed to ever find evidence of doping. The levels of soluble
doping agent in the body can be tuned if synthesis of the doping agent
can be induced (this is already well established as tetracycline-
regulatable expression is commonly used in research, and are you going to
sanction someone for having an infection?). Have you had a hard workout
today? Take an Ibuprofin and a tetracycline pill and reduce inflammation
and induce synthesis of IGF at the same time to aid recovery. That's the
future of sport, if someone wants to take it to the extreme state of the
art.
Damn, maybe I should become a consultant. Maybe I already am. Who knows?
Anton Berlin
I've never sprinted always time trialed in for the win or didn't have
it that day.
I've known and ridden with some road and track sprinters and it's
incredible when they sprint - you feel like you're going backwards.
But these guys were mainly genetic freeks too.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:564e7b87-492a-490e...@g17g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
The simpleton here is not Thor, if you think you can reduce my posts to such
a nonsensical conclusion.
Ryan Cousineau
> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 00:14:49 -0700, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> > They've already done gene-doping experiments on mice that go the other
> > way, encouraging the development of slow-twitch fibers ("marathon
> > mice"):
>
> >http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/vecase/SeniorColloquium/04/Genetic%
>
> 20Testing/genedopingbiology.htm
>
> > The fast-twitch enhancement seems like a natural successor to that
> > project.
>
> The "marathon mouse" would not work in humans, unless the athlete is a
> test tube baby. The problem with this approach is that every muscle cell
> would have to express the "marathon mouse" gene (PPARdelta, a
> transcription factor), so introducing this to an athlete once they have
> already developed would be of little use. Effective gene doping will
Darn?
> involve soluble molecules that can be released and used systemically,
> like EPO and IGF. Versions of these genes can be introduced to the
> athlete's own cells ex vivo and injected into an innocuous part of the
> body (a fat pad, or the sole of the foot) and doping control, even if
> they are allowed to take biopsy samples for testing, would be extremely
> hard pressed to ever find evidence of doping. The levels of soluble
> doping agent in the body can be tuned if synthesis of the doping agent
> can be induced (this is already well established as tetracycline-
> regulatable expression is commonly used in research, and are you going to
> sanction someone for having an infection?). Have you had a hard workout
> today? Take an Ibuprofin and a tetracycline pill and reduce inflammation
> and induce synthesis of IGF at the same time to aid recovery. That's the
> future of sport, if someone wants to take it to the extreme state of the
> art.
Um, yay?
> Damn, maybe I should become a consultant. Maybe I already am. Who knows?
Congratulations?
That's a good summary of the future (present?) of doping, inasmuch as
it looks like the net is closing much more effectively upon EPO and
even blood doping.
It also must be said that the vampires clearly are busting more dopers
than ever before, and with more effectiveness. The quality of the
names on suspension is rising :).
DemostiX
>
> The fast-twitch enhancement seems like a natural successor to that
> project.
>
> > I like his comment about the partying, implying it's not possible to
> > have more fun than he has. Scandinavian women...sigh.
>
> He needs a LIVEDRUNK wristband.
>
> The "triathlon mice" could sustain a high effort even longer, but kept
> falling off the exercise wheel,
I don't understand the comparison of sprinters in other sports with
sprinting in cycling. Sprinters in road cycling all have the capacity
to perform after 100km of hard riding. Not comparable to what track or
swimming sprinters do. They move very quickly for no more than 45
seconds after no more than a warmup. Further, it isn't even evident to
me, knowing the training regiment of swimmers, that those athletes are
much less capable of distance events than their training peers doing
those longer distances. The differences in training times are trivial,
except that those trivial-in-training differences are big in highly
selected competition.
So, the popular comparison of long-twitch and short-twitch muscle
fibers, dark and light meat in chicken, is too popularized, too
generalized, and accounts for little.
Besides: Sprinters in all sports themselves the difference is in the
head, not the bodies. No doubt, there IS a sprinting mentality.
Harry Travis
Ryan Cousineau
The thing that wins races for cycling sprinters is, more or less, fast-
twitch fiber performance. In road cycling it has to be combined with
enough aerobic capability to survive to the end of the race.
But in the context of the question of whether doping can help
sprinting, the needs of 100m dashers and cycling sprinters are
similar.
Plano Dude
On the physiological side, I'm convinced that there must also be some
unusual lactate tolerance/coping factor.