W H E A T T H I N S ! ! ! ! !
Carl Sundquist
from the late 80s asked "Do you think we should try and do The Mayors
Cup series again? I needs to know! Do you think the young'nes could
handle it? Or would they all go splat? I"m up for it if there is an
audience for it."
I asked him if I could quote him on that and he said "Yes"
Magilla Gorilla
Carl Sundquist wrote:
Criterium racing is so 1970's and 80's. There is no way to televise
criterium racing in a way that attracts TV audiences and promotes the
sport. When I watch a crit, I just want to see a nasty motherfucking
crash with one of the race favorites buried at the bottom of the pile.
Magilla
Carl Sundquist
Thanks. If there is one thing that's worse than a boring contrarian,
it's a boring, /predictable/ contrarian.
Since you seem to have missed it, society is moving to a shorter
attention span. That's what caused the organizer of the Giro to say,
"We have to re-model cycling events to fit other cultures. They have
to be made more spectacular, with finishes around 6pm, night-time
racing, inner city circuits. The average American knows that the NBA
events are decisive only during the last three minutes, so how can he
understand an event based on a start and a finish? The Americans want
speed, energy and novelty - which traditional cycling lacks. Europe is
traditional, while other countries cultivate modernism, like the
United States."
To draw significant mainstream sponsors, you have to attract
significant mainstream audiences. The visceral sensation of standing
on the front row of the crowd, hearing the tires and the riders,
feeling the force of the wind they generate as they go past every 45
seconds or a minute, listening to them like it's Hard Knocks has much
more appeal to Joe America than standing for hours on some remote
mountain pass hoping that something memorable might happen in the 200
meters of your viewpoint.
All of us here love the traditional aspects of the sport, but how many
stage races in the US have a $30k or greater prize list (more or less
the prize list of the WT races, adjusted for inflation)? If that's
your bag then go ahead and make some noise, although I guarantee that
if you're good enough to pull money from a $30k stage race, your team
is going to tell you to keep your mouth shut, take the plane ticket,
and show up on Pelletier's start line.
You want to have some dream of going to Europe and racing? Go get on a
plane. The rest of us can stay here and enjoy watching and racing in
some of the most exciting races from start to finish imaginable.
Magilla Gorilla
> On Sep 17, 9:25 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > Carl Sundquist wrote:
> > > David Pelletier, the genius and force behind the Wheat Thins series
> > > from the late 80s asked "Do you think we should try and do The Mayors
> > > Cup series again? I needs to know! Do you think the young'nes could
> > > handle it? Or would they all go splat? I"m up for it if there is an
> > > audience for it."
> >
> > > I asked him if I could quote him on that and he said "Yes"
> >
> > Criterium racing is so 1970's and 80's. There is no way to televise
> > criterium racing in a way that attracts TV audiences and promotes the
> > sport. When I watch a crit, I just want to see a nasty motherfucking
> > crash with one of the race favorites buried at the bottom of the pile.
> >
> > Magilla
>
> Thanks. If there is one thing that's worse than a boring contrarian,
> it's a boring, /predictable/ contrarian.
>
> Since you seem to have missed it, society is moving to a shorter
> attention span.
Fuck society. I determine society's next fad.
> That's what caused the organizer of the Giro to say,
> "We have to re-model cycling events to fit other cultures. They have
> to be made more spectacular, with finishes around 6pm, night-time
> racing, inner city circuits.
The organizer of the Giro is a greaser mafiosa wannabee who doesn't seem to
realize his race is used as fat camp for the Tour de France. He's the same
jackass who thinks he's going to run the Giro prologue in Washington D.C.
> The average American knows that the NBA
> events are decisive only during the last three minutes, so how can he
> understand an event based on a start and a finish? The Americans want
> speed, energy and novelty - which traditional cycling lacks. Europe is
> traditional, while other countries cultivate modernism, like the
> United States."
I love how he describes Americans as all basically having the same
interest. That's fucking hilarious. Criterium racing isn't the way to go,
Ricky Bobby. Going around in NASCAR circles is what hamsters do on a gerbil
wheel. Trexlertown is nothing but a gerbil wheel in an outdoor Petsmart.
Marty Nothstein won a gold medal on the track and nobody gives a fuck. The
only reason why the Blade was able to get all that money was because
Chenowth scammed EDS and went to prison over it. Once he runs out of money
Ashley Kimmet will dump him for a guy with a real career.
>
>
> To draw significant mainstream sponsors, you have to attract
> significant mainstream audiences. The visceral sensation of standing
> on the front row of the crowd, hearing the tires and the riders,
> feeling the force of the wind they generate as they go past every 45
> seconds or a minute, listening to them like it's Hard Knocks has much
> more appeal to Joe America than standing for hours on some remote
> mountain pass hoping that something memorable might happen in the 200
> meters of your viewpoint.
Spectators are meaningless. Sponsors care about TV ratings, not drunks on
the side of the road yelling "doper" while sipping from a brown bag
containing a Colt 45.
>
>
> All of us here love the traditional aspects of the sport, but how many
> stage races in the US have a $30k or greater prize list (more or less
> the prize list of the WT races, adjusted for inflation)? If that's
> your bag then go ahead and make some noise, although I guarantee that
> if you're good enough to pull money from a $30k stage race, your team
> is going to tell you to keep your mouth shut, take the plane ticket,
> and show up on Pelletier's start line.
>
> You want to have some dream of going to Europe and racing? Go get on a
> plane. The rest of us can stay here and enjoy watching and racing in
> some of the most exciting races from start to finish imaginable.
When was the last time you were at Jackie Simes candyland dreamworld
(Somerville)? The spectators there look like D-block in Attica.
Somerville has turned into a joke, a throwaway race.
The Tour of California don't have no crit, Sonny. What they got is 2.5
million spectators. Now that they got rid of Ball's skank whore podium
models from the Chicano ghetto, that race will be able to raise the bar.
Sure, there will be some difficult press conferences ahead once Levi and
Lance are suspended and Messick has to answer why they paid a doper like
Lance an appearance fee when they knew his '99 Tour samples tested positive
for EPO made by the title sponsor of the race.
I personally think the future of the sport of cycling is in the courtroom
and in CAS hearings, watching Mini Me getting popped and then dragged
through his divorce from Odessa. I got my little puppy dog ready to go once
Odessa hits the free agent market.
Then Fraud will win a multi-million dollar settlement from his whistle
blower lawsuit and hook up with some slut.
So, yes, there is a huge future in cycling, but it ain't in no
merry-go-round races. Jackie Simes isn't the future of the sport, Carl.
Magilla
Brad Anders
> I personally think the future of the sport of cycling is in the courtroom
> and in CAS hearings, watching Mini Me getting popped and then dragged
> through his divorce from Odessa. I got my little puppy dog ready to go once
> Odessa hits the free agent market.
Honest question - is there anything positive that you get out of your
obsession with the mundane details of the lives of pro cyclists? You
have a near encyclopedic knowledge of the past and current
relationships and financial details of nearly every US past and
current pro. Are their lives and failures some kind of proxy for your
own life?
Personally, I find the level of delight you express at every
relationship collapse, every dope positive, and every financial
failure, well, pretty creepy. If your MG persona and what you say
about people is actually well-known to US pros, and none of them have
kicked your ass, then they're a really sorry bunch of losers.
Brad Anders
RicodJour
You know those stories about some dude drunk off his ass and worried
that he's going to freeze to death because he feels so damn cold at 60
F, so he pees himself so the warmth will keep him from dying? That's
MG. Maybe he feels a catharsis, or maybe he believes what he's
saying, but he's just really drunk off his ass and not harming anyone,
so people let it slide.
BTW, that 'near' modifier of yours signifies a whole 'nother
encyclopedia of shit MG knows absolutely nothing about, but that's
okay. He's so damn cuddly.
R
birdbrain
> On Sep 17, 6:40 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> > I personally think the future of the sport of cycling is in the courtroom
> > and in CAS hearings, watching Mini Me getting popped and then dragged
> > through his divorce from Odessa. I got my little puppy dog ready to go once
> > Odessa hits the free agent market.
>
> Honest question - is there anything positive that you get out of your
> obsession with the mundane details of the lives of pro cyclists?
Many entertaining posts.
> If your MG persona and what you say
> about people is actually well-known to US pros, and none of them have
> kicked your ass, then they're a really sorry bunch of losers.
He's said this many times.
Amit Ghosh
> To draw significant mainstream sponsors, you have to attract
> significant mainstream audiences. The visceral sensation of standing
> on the front row of the crowd, hearing the tires and the riders,
> feeling the force of the wind they generate as they go past every 45
> seconds or a minute, listening to them like it's Hard Knocks has much
> more appeal to Joe America than standing for hours on some remote
> mountain pass hoping that something memorable might happen in the 200
> meters of your viewpoint.
dumbass,
perhaps that is true. but even bike racers don't go watch bike races
in North America.
crits are an 80s-90s thing and not the direction that the sport is
going in. within the sport results in stage races get a lot more
respect.
Magilla Gorilla
> On Sep 17, 6:40 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
>
> > I personally think the future of the sport of cycling is in the courtroom
> > and in CAS hearings, watching Mini Me getting popped and then dragged
> > through his divorce from Odessa. I got my little puppy dog ready to go once
> > Odessa hits the free agent market.
>
> Honest question - is there anything positive that you get out of your
> obsession with the mundane details of the lives of pro cyclists?
The only time you'll ever hear me be "positive" about the sport is when I'm
talking about someone A-sample result. Any more questions?
> You
> have a near encyclopedic knowledge of the past and current
> relationships and financial details of nearly every US past and
> current pro. Are their lives and failures some kind of proxy for your
> own life?
Great question. I live in a bat cave so my electric bill is slightly higher than
Superman's.
>
>
> Personally, I find the level of delight you express at every
> relationship collapse, every dope positive, and every financial
> failure, well, pretty creepy.
I take that as a compliment, so thanks. But I want to make something very clear
- and I've been very up front about this - I will only be truly happy when a
gigantic asteroid hits the earth and actually causes the sport to completely
cease to exist. I've had enough of guys with sideburns and argyle habilaments
talking like they think they're Jesus. All those jackasses talking about little
French lab girls conspiring to take down American cyclists...
Lance giving another press conference about fighting doping...knowing full well
he gave himself ball cancer by taking massive amounts of steroids for
years....and then selling himself to the public as a cancer savior through
continued fraud. And then leading a worldwide movement of brain dead jackasses
with yellow bracelets - all of whom are intellectually indistinguishable from the
teenagers who went to Sharon Tate's house because their leader Charlie told them
to.
I'm a modern day crime fighter. I'm some kind of fucking super hero. Would you
ever ask Batman why he never says nice things about the Joker?
> If your MG persona and what you say
> about people is actually well-known to US pros, and none of them have
> kicked your ass, then they're a really sorry bunch of losers.
>
> Brad Anders
140 lb. men with upper arms that look like they were just released from Treblinka
don't kick anyone's ass, son.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
Correct. Even Brooke Miller knew one day she was going to wake up from
her delusion of grandeur of what it meant to win all those meaningless
crits.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/miller-announces-surprise-retirement-from-womens-peloton
Magilla
Fred
wrote:
Yeah, but those guys have friends, not all of whom are whimps. Like
Brad, I don't understand how you haven't been relegated to feeding
yourself through a straw...
Fred
Magilla Gorilla
Pro cyclists are pussies. All of them. Lance is a bully in an all-girl's school.
Magilla
Amit Ghosh
>
> Yeah, but those guys have friends, not all of whom are whimps. Like
> Brad, I don't understand how you haven't been relegated to feeding
> yourself through a straw...
dumbass,
you should team up with meathead phil.
Beloved Fred No. 1
> Great question. I live in a bat cave so my electric bill is slightly
higher than Superman's.
And higher than LANCE's water bill.
> I'm a modern day crime fighter. I'm some kind of fucking super hero.
Did King Kong ever get to tap Fay ?
Magilla Gorilla
No, but he got to second base with her on the top of the Empire State
Building.
Magilla
Anton Berlin
We need to make all criteriums and all RBR posts less than 140
characters.
And to honor Henry Chang they all need to be in haiku.
Carl Sundquist
Dumbass,
Chang is of Chinese heritage. Haiku is Japanese.
Carl Sundquist
I will say this though: generally a crit will not have the building
tension of a good road stage. But heck, TV doesn't normally even show
a whole stage. They start broadcasting part way through.
As for MG's comparison of the Tour of California, that's ONE race. How
many other stage races in the US have national TV coverage?
Furthermore, how many big stage races have been carried forward on the
back of Armstrong? Amgen wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Armstrong.
Gila would have dried up if Armstrong hadn't told SRAM to sponsor it
so he could have a training race.
Armstrong never rode Missouri. Where is it now?
I don't want to be a pessimist a la MG, but it will be interesting to
see what the Tour of California's numbers become without Armstrong and
when the local boy Levi are no longer competing in it. The organizers
have allowed the race's identity to be significantly cultivated based
on those two riders.
I'll say it again: all racing cyclists recognize that stage racing is
the pinnacle of the sport. That's no surprise. But for mainstream
America who doesn't know any other racers than Armstrong, you need
something else to market your race.
Anton Berlin
> America who doesn't know any other racers than Armstrong, you need
> something else to market your race.
Again - short attention spans - they are unable to leverage new names
and faces into the mix. My gf laughed out loud when they named a
cyclist the "silent killer" during the Tour de France because it made
her think they named a cyclist after a fart.
how you going to build a following when the racers are all named
after colon gasses ?
"Coming to the finish it looks like Mud Butt, Silent Killer and Must
have had Eggs for Breakfast, looks like Mud Butt has a second wind and
he as he lets out a final gasp he eeks out Silent Killer. What a
stage! "
Anton Berlin
> > And to honor Henry Chang they all need to be in haiku.
>
>
> Chang is of Chinese heritage. Haiku is Japanese.
Chaiku ?
Fred
I think that there's a really good chance that the ToC has already
established itself to the point that it doesn't need Armstrong, as
long as they can continue to attract a few of the big names. Folks
will turn out to see Horner (for how ever much longer he shows up) and
Boonen and Cav and Farrar and Phinney and ...
I'd be more curious to see if the Quiznos Pro Challenge actually
happens, and if it does, will it happen a second year?
Fred
Uncle Dave
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
> > On Sep 17, 9:25 am, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > > Carl Sundquist wrote:
> > > > David Pelletier, the genius and force behind the Wheat Thins series
> > > > from the late 80s asked "Do you think we should try and do The Mayors
> > > > Cup series again? I needs to know! Do you think the young'nes could
> > > > handle it? Or would they all go splat? I"m up for it if there is an
> > > > audience for it."
>
> > > > I asked him if I could quote him on that and he said "Yes"
>
> > > Criterium racing is so 1970's and 80's. There is no way to televise
> > > criterium racing in a way that attracts TV audiences and promotes the
> > > sport. When I watch a crit, I just want to see a nasty motherfucking
> > > crash with one of the race favorites buried at the bottom of the pile.
>
> > > Magilla
>
> > Thanks. If there is one thing that's worse than a boring contrarian,
> > it's a boring, /predictable/ contrarian.
>
> > Since you seem to have missed it, society is moving to a shorter
> > attention span.
>
> Fuck society. I determine society's next fad.
<snip usual stuff>
You make such a lot of noise on here, I bet you're a real wimp in real
life. I can picture you sitting in the corner of a small town coffee
shop, stained T-shirt proclaiming your status in some pointless online
game for reclusive nerds, avoiding eye contact and spewing venom into
your laptop. Even for a yank you are fucking weird...
UD
Uncle Dave
P.S. What are "W H E A T T H I N S ! ! ! ! !"?
UD
Amit Ghosh
> I'll say it again: all racing cyclists recognize that stage racing is
> the pinnacle of the sport. That's no surprise. But for mainstream
> America who doesn't know any other racers than Armstrong, you need
> something else to market your race.
dumbass,
sports is cultural more than anything else. even though americans
supposedly have short attention spans football, which can be tedious
to watch and has pretty complicated rules is the most popular sport.
just because americans like NASCAR it doesn't mean they will like
other events which have a superficial resemblance (ie. crits). trying
to market cycling to "mainstream" North American audiences is futile
and has always been a failure.
a high end sushi restaurant doesn't try to market to burger eating
fast food diners, they market to people who actually like the
product.
but, i don't even see the point of trying to build up an audience for
pro cycling.
even though i race, i hardly care about other people's races (there is
a pro crit with tdf pros happening 10 mins from my house right now,
but i'm not even inclined to go check it out). if i do go to watch a
race i spend all my time at the beer tent and talking shit with people
i know.
Carl Sundquist
Fredmaster of Brainerd
>
> dumbass,
>
> sports is cultural more than anything else. even though americans
> supposedly have short attention spans football, which can be tedious
> to watch and has pretty complicated rules is the most popular sport.
> even though i race, i hardly care about other people's races (there is
> a pro crit with tdf pros happening 10 mins from my house right now,
> but i'm not even inclined to go check it out). if i do go to watch a
> race i spend all my time at the beer tent and talking shit with people
> i know.
Dumbass,
Spending all your time at the beer tent (metaphorically)
and talking shit with people you know is the point of
watching football, too. Or standing by the side of the
road at the Tour de France.
In order for cycling to build an audience, you have to
be able to do that while watching a race. This is at
least generally possible at a cyclocross race
(with the additional allure that you can watch your
friends or heckle-able pros fall down without getting
badly hurt). A reason that watching the Philly race at
the Manayunk Wall or Lemon Hill is good is not just
because that is where the selection is made but
because those are good places to hang out with
your friends all afternoon, and you can have a picnic
(at Lemon Hill) with a bottle of wine or beer as long
as you don't act stupid.
I think basically I'm saying that cycling fandom in the US
is doomed not because of our short attention spans,
but because of our Puritan open-container laws.
Fredmaster Ben
A. Dumas
>>>>> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>>>>>> David Pelletier, the genius and force behind the Wheat Thins series
>>>>>> from the late 80s asked "Do you think we should try and do The Mayors
>
So, a series of cycling races in the late 80s, sponsored by
http://www.nabiscoworld.com/wheatthins/
A. Dumas
> sports is cultural more than anything else. even though americans
> supposedly have short attention spans football, which can be tedious
> to watch and has pretty complicated rules is the most popular sport.
The cultural factor is: people like fights. Cycling is too stylised a
war game. Uninformed audiences don't see the aggression.
Uncle Dave
Ah yes, I think I've seen those here. I got the bike race bit ;-)
UD
Mr. Slate
Tamayo made some good points about the hidden costs to US racing when
conforming to the UCI guidelines in that article about the UCI clamping down
on Pro Tour riders racing in domestic events. Maybe it did save the Gila,
but it also overshadows some of the regular players, so some good and bad.
Better to save the race though then to lose it. Crits are a US thing, so the
UCI needs to realize that and make some adjustments. Even if they seem
retro, you can't just throw them under the bus. Crits are about local
community and sponsors, local vendors and such, plus it's good entertainment
and a good role model for kids to get out and ride their bikes instead of
hanging out at 7-11 playing Asteroids.
Crits fill a niche for that, and it's unbeatable in many ways locally. You
can set up a mini entertainment park of sorts with a nice potential for
vendors and sponsors to get the most bang for the buck. It's the easiest way
for fans to enjoy cycling compared to a race out in the countryside where
not a single fan will show up. Crits pay for themselves in that respect very
well, at least some do anyway. Action in a crit is unbeatable, that's
obvious. Based on the confined area and the laps, Crits are by far much
easier to cover by the press as a photojournalist. So crits rock in many
ways compared to stage or road races where often fans won't hassle to drive
out to these venues. If they not covered by a professional video crew on
motos for TV, no one will ever see the race, unless it's posted to Youtube
in those crappy little 3x5 formats, maybe HD if you are lucky, but that is
not even remotely comparable to a nationwide TV broadcast. Doing away with
crits to conform to UCI would be a disaster and probably spell the end of
many cycling venues in America. But that won't happen anyway cause they
won't go UCI. Heck, many hate to even go NRC.
As corny as crits may seem, most local fans don't care and enjoy them a lot.
They are not seeing them as retro 70's looking through the dark colored
glasses of some negative burned out post aficionado of the sport. To them,
it's just fast fun with hot dogs, pepsi and pizza. Crits were and still are
the best ticket in town. Crits don't need to be on TV, but stage races do.
There's a balance here that could easily be worked out for the fans, but for
the athlete, racing in Europe is unbeatable in so many respects. For the
USA, we got to do what works for us. Tamayo says we can fight the rules of
work with them, but eliminating crits is a non starter.
Fred
Could you show me where in those articles that it said anything to the
effect that if Armstrong was coming that all would be okay?
Maybe the ToC won't be a big deal next year, or in the out years, but
it won't be due to Armstrong's participation, or lack thereof.
Fred
Amit Ghosh
> The cultural factor is: people like fights. Cycling is too stylised a
> war game. Uninformed audiences don't see the aggression.
dumbass,
football is a much more stylized war game. there's roughly two
categories of sports, fighting and racing.
bike racing seems combative to us, but it still falls in the latter
category: racing.
Amit Ghosh
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
> plus it's good entertainment
> and a good role model for kids to get out and ride their bikes instead of
> hanging out at 7-11 playing Asteroids.
huh ??? ...or playing that hoop and stick thing ?
Mr. Slate
Just from a personal perspective, Armstrong came through Merced and most of
those thousands of fans who turned out were all Gaga to see Lance. Without
Lance as the big show for Merced, there would of been much less, much much
less people coming. While some came from out of state, I am betting a lot of
people even from say Modesto would not drove even an hour to see the TOC
otherwise. In the mountains, the race passed close to us, and clearly
everyone I talked to was there to catch a glimpse of Lance. Ask the 30,000
fans that went to Nevada City why they came to see Lance, which otherwise
that race would have been, the ghost town it usually is. I can't deny Lance
is a big draw. TOC may survive, but Lance was clearly a big shot in the arm
for local vendors and sponsors here. I believe Merced made 500k off of Lance
that year, and that's incredible for a small town like that. Yeah maybe
Lance doped and I am sick of seeing his face everywhere, but he's still a
big draw wherever he goes. Even the local popularity of races after the TOC
increased quite a bit after Lance passed through.
Magilla Gorilla
Dear Uncle Dave,
I'll fuck you in your ass like the Dragster driver doing a 14 year old at the
T-town track clinic for junior girls.
Magilla
Magilla Gorilla
> On Sep 19, 10:49 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Good point Sunny - short attention spans.
> >
> > We need to make all criteriums and all RBR posts less than 140
> > characters.
> >
> > And to honor Henry Chang they all need to be in haiku.
>
> I will say this though: generally a crit will not have the building
> tension of a good road stage. But heck, TV doesn't normally even show
> a whole stage. They start broadcasting part way through.
>
> As for MG's comparison of the Tour of California, that's ONE race. How
> many other stage races in the US have national TV coverage?
> Furthermore, how many big stage races have been carried forward on the
> back of Armstrong? Amgen wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Armstrong.
> Gila would have dried up if Armstrong hadn't told SRAM to sponsor it
> so he could have a training race.
So how come Lance couldn't save the Tour de Georgia? How about the Tour
of Missouri or New York City crit?
Gila will fold once SRAM pulls out, which will be in a few years.
>
>
> Armstrong never rode Missouri. Where is it now?
It's the same place thaqt the Tour of Missouri is in, which Lance rode
numerous times.
>
>
> I don't want to be a pessimist a la MG, but it will be interesting to
> see what the Tour of California's numbers become without Armstrong
The Tour of California had huge numbers for Landis and that bald headed
Mini Me.
> and
> when the local boy Levi are no longer competing in it. The organizers
> have allowed the race's identity to be significantly cultivated based
> on those two riders.
Not really.
>
>
> I'll say it again: all racing cyclists recognize that stage racing is
> the pinnacle of the sport. That's no surprise. But for mainstream
> America who doesn't know any other racers than Armstrong, you need
> something else to market your race.
Magilla
Uncle Dave
Yes of course you will. And then you'd better buy something else
because you're getting dirty looks from behind the counter. Two hours
for a single espresso, that's stretching hospitality a bit don't you
think?
UD
Magilla Gorilla
Magilla Gorilla wrote:
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> > On Sep 19, 10:49 am, Anton Berlin <truth_88...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Good point Sunny - short attention spans.
> > >
> > > We need to make all criteriums and all RBR posts less than 140
> > > characters.
> > >
> > > And to honor Henry Chang they all need to be in haiku.
> >
> > I will say this though: generally a crit will not have the building
> > tension of a good road stage. But heck, TV doesn't normally even show
> > a whole stage. They start broadcasting part way through.
> >
> > As for MG's comparison of the Tour of California, that's ONE race. How
> > many other stage races in the US have national TV coverage?
> > Furthermore, how many big stage races have been carried forward on the
> > back of Armstrong? Amgen wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Armstrong.
> > Gila would have dried up if Armstrong hadn't told SRAM to sponsor it
> > so he could have a training race.
>
> So how come Lance couldn't save the Tour de Georgia? How about the Tour
> of Missouri or New York City crit?
>
> Gila will fold once SRAM pulls out, which will be in a few years.
>
> >
> >
> > Armstrong never rode Missouri. Where is it now?
>
> It's the same place thaqt the Tour of Missouri is in, which Lance rode
> numerous times.
>
> >
Self-correction: I clearly meant Tour of Georgia.
Magilla