So is the whole thing just a scam to sell overpriced, fast-wearing bearings
or what? Does anybody actually believe in them? I even took them out of my
bottom bracket, because I wanted something that would last more than three
months (I went through two of them due to water intrusion). I'll put up with
the theoretical power loss and try eating better to make up for it.
Are my experiences, and those of several other bicycle retailers, unusual?
Or am I about to be struck dead because I'm not drinking the kool-aid?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
ceramic bearings in bicycles = snake oil
There's no reason to ride a bicycle in the rain. That's your real problem.
Thanks,
Magilla
Years ago, I wrote a calculation of just how insignificant
the power loss in wheel/BB bearings is, and therefore how
little ceramic bearings can save, even in theoretical best-case
conditions.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/9306a25dadee264e
I also sent it to Lennard Zinn after he wrote some column on
the then-new ceramic bearings and he published it in the
letters section, although the format's all screwed up now
since Velonews revamped their site.
My recollection is that after he published that, several
Kool-Aid drinkers wrote in and said what's with all
those complicated physics number things in your
column, wah wah. They are probably waiting at the
service counter of your shop right now.
Fredmaster
I don't know if you're joking or not. There are some of us who ride bikes
because... because it's all about getting outside and putting in miles under
your own power. It's about experiencing the world going by at just the right
speed. It's about doing something outside of the 5 degree temperature range
you think is OK in your car and recognizing the human body, or at least your
human body, is capable of a lot more than most think. And if it's raining,
it can become an epic battle between you and the elements. So for *some* of
us... darned few, I'll admit... our motto is Death before Trainers.
If I lived in Wisconsin, that wouldn't be practical. But I don't live in
Wisconsin, and that's one of the reasons I don't live in Wisconsin. Or some
other place where winters are harsh enough that it's just not practical to
ride. But 28 degrees and dry, or 37 and raining with heavy winds (conditions
we'll sometimes see in the winter), and I'm out there. And each Tuesday or
Thursday morning when it's pouring rain and the winds blowing violently
against the house, and I wake up at 7:05 (to get out the door by 7:30 to
meet whatever other crazies are going to be out there), my wife asks the
same thing. "You're not really going to ride in this weather are you?" And
the answer has always, always been the same. I've not missed a Tues/Thurs
ride due to weather for 30 years, and I don't plan to start.
But I won't argue that it's sensible to stay indoors and ride a trainer, if
that's what works for you.
Dude,
In terms of hypothermia, water is the most dangerous thing you face.
At 37 and rainy I don't ride. That's way more extreme than anything
I face with any regularity.
Just sayin'. And I never rode trainers either.
Fred Flintstein
Oh, and all these years I thought I needed groceries.
Thanks for the enlightenment. I feel enlightened.
37 and rain is extraordinarily rare, one of those once-every-year sorta
things, if even that. It's more typically 42 at the low end when it's
raining. I do not face such conditions with regularity! For the most
part, it rains in a range of 44-52 degrees or thereabout. The toughest
part is keeping a consistent full head of steam. If you get a flat,
things can go bad in a hurry.
Descending is a royal pain, especially when you have 7 miles of it.
The dumbest thing we ever did was build a snowman up on Skyline.
Couldn't help ourselves; we don't see that much snow around here, and it
was just so cool riding up through the rain and watching it gradually
turn to snow! But the snow soaked through our gloves, and it was
absolutely positively the worst descent ever. By the time I got home I
was literally feeling sick, and curled up in a ball at the base of the
shower for about five minutes. Never want to repeat that again.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Forkstrong bracelets repel water.
And as you know they are cheap as hell.
>Are my experiences, and those of several other bicycle retailers, unusual?
>Or am I about to be struck dead because I'm not drinking the kool-aid?
You probably weren't told about the special lube that also does a
great job of sealing the bearings. I can sell you ten tubes of my Seal
Oil, but I'm having problems with some group of activists right now.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
>In terms of hypothermia, water is the most dangerous thing you face.
>At 37 and rainy I don't ride. That's way more extreme than anything
>I face with any regularity.
>
>Just sayin'. And I never rode trainers either.
Seriously, you don't want to break down in that crap. I remember a
flat that lead to a very strange finish to a commute home. I remember
kids at the playground near my house walking past me, in a vague,
really out of it sort of way (me, not them). Parents shouldn't allow
their kids out in rain...
Wife had to open the door. Later, when it was more amusing, she said I
probably would have been standing there for a while, trying to figure
out how the door worked. I didn't plan on fog, rain and twilight and
falling temperatures...
It got warm and it was all gone in a week. I was watching
stream gauges and seeing things I very rarely see.
A neighbor took his kayak out and somehow dumped it. He
almost made it to the front page of the newspaper, which is
to say he almost didn't make it to shore.
So my wife has talked to this guy, and the alarms are going
off as I get ready to check things out. No, I may *not*
bring the kid along. But she can't tell me to stay home. If
anyone is looking for a reason to hold onto the child trailer,
a good reason is you can pack an inflatable in it with a
paddle and wetsuit and do your own shuttle.
I put in at the dam. I know the lake behind the dam is still
frozen over. Air temperature is 60F(15C), there are others at
the dam besides me. One is in a t-shirt and he takes the time
to light a cigarette before putting in. He is dressed for the
air temperature with no concession to the water temperature.
I see him stopped after the first rapids. I don't see him
after that, and their car is gone when I do my pickup. It was
a nice day for a walk I guess. Bet it was a bitch getting the
boat up to the road. But the gates on the dam were open and
there really was no way to stay dry.
What he missed was water doing stuff it rarely ever does on
this stretch of river. The normal summer flow isn't really
paddleable because of the endless series of drops and ledges.
If the gates at the dam are all open you bounce around like
a ping pong ball in spots and slide through some pretty big
ass rollers and whitecaps. At the end I have to thread my way
through blocks of ice at the take out. I'm pretty chilled by
this time, and am reminded that the wetsuit doesn't buy you
invulnerability, it just buys you time to recover from a fuck
up.
It was a nice ride back to the dam too.
Fred Flintstein
I'm pretty skeptical in general.
I had this Powertap Pro wheel, original wired, with total garbage
bearings. My local shop rebuilt it using Dura Ace cones and instead of
regular bearings, ceramics. He did it at a very low price because this
was something he wanted to sell, and needed a test cast. I would never
have paid the going rate for the ceramics.
Anyway, the hub stayed smooth for much much longer with the ceramics
and DA cones in there. Anyone who does more than 5000 miles a year on
the original PT Pro Wired knows what I'm talking about. It gets
roached shockingly fast.
Whether it was the DA cones, the ceramics, I don't know. All I do know
is it made the hub something I didn't have to think about anymore.
I'm as serious as a satellite station. You people better stop with this goddamn
bicycle riding nonsense.
Most people who ride during poor weather don't do the proper maintenance. No
bearing seals are water-proof and so every time you go out riding in the rain,
you are ruining your bike's precision parts. You are putting dirt and grime
into your bearings, your chain, your chainrings. And then every time you ride
without overhauling them, you are grinding dirt and grime into them and then
like a jackass you are wondering why this is happening. It's called stupid
riding combined with poor maintenance.
I notice that people who ride in the rain do the least amount of maintenance
and actually think that engineers made their bicycles water-proof or something.
Just look at you original post where you claim to go through through a bottom
bracket every 3 months. That's 4 new bottom brackets a year not to mention
wheel bearings. If you do the fucking math, you're looking at like $1,200/year
in bearing maintenance just because you choose to ride in the rain.
You're suppose to use the rain days as rest days (no fucking trainer either)
and just ride extra long on the nice days.
Thanks,
Magilla
It was the DuraAce cones that made the difference, not the bearings.
Those original PowerTap hubs were pretty awful that way.
But there's no harm in using ceramic bearings in that application,
because you're not doing anything that will make the hub less
water-resistant. It's the seals on the cartridge-bearing units that are
so bad.
I knew you couldn't sell any.
You can sell it to some Canadians to pour onto their big macs.
Gloves? You make snowballs and snow men with bare hands.
Sure your hands feel cold, you hit the wall, then on the
other side your hands are warm. I know of what I speak.
--
Michael Press
> Oh, and all these years I thought I needed groceries.
> Thanks for the enlightenment. I feel enlightened.
Buy groceries three days ahead as I do.
Then you do not have to starve when it rains.
--
Michael Press
Turns out some people cannot learn programming,
some cannot learn mathematics. I am one of those
who cannot learn to play music.
--
Michael Press
> In article
> <6bfa4e79-d54f-4093...@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Norman <invasiv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 23, 7:43 pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > > > In the real world, ceramic bearings just ain't cutting it for bikes.
> > >
> > > There's no reason to ride a bicycle in the rain. That's your real
> > > problem.
> >
> > Oh, and all these years I thought I needed groceries.
> > Thanks for the enlightenment. I feel enlightened.
>
> Buy groceries three days ahead as I do.
> Then you do not have to starve when it rains.
It only rains three days in a row where you live? If we PNWists hadn't
just lived through the most gloriously mild Winter I can remember, I'd
be tempted to move to wherever you are.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
> In article <rubrum-01A350....@news.albasani.net>,
> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <6bfa4e79-d54f-4093...@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> > Norman <invasiv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mar 23, 7:43Â pm, Magilla Gorilla <m.gori...@sandiegozoo.org> wrote:
> > > > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > > > > In the real world, ceramic bearings just ain't cutting it for bikes.
>
> > > >
> > > > There's no reason to ride a bicycle in the rain. Â That's your real
> > > > problem.
> > >
> > > Oh, and all these years I thought I needed groceries.
> > > Thanks for the enlightenment. I feel enlightened.
> >
> > Buy groceries three days ahead as I do.
> > Then you do not have to starve when it rains.
>
> It only rains three days in a row where you live? If we PNWists hadn't
> just lived through the most gloriously mild Winter I can remember, I'd
> be tempted to move to wherever you are.
The climate is pleasant--peachy, to be exact. I laugh
up my sleeve whenever somebody complains. Try living in
the rust belt. A guy who grew up here went to a great
midwest land grant college for postgraduate work and
transferred to University of Hawaii after a year
because he could not handle the weather.
--
Michael Press