Armstrong In Deep Trouble
BL
ilan
> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8826/Lance-Armstrong-investigation-...
Armstrong was already investigated for witness tampering when he
chased down a break with Simeoni in the last stage of the Tour de
France. The videotape evidence there was clear, Simeoni will be
brought to testify at the trial to confirm the incident.
-ilan
BL
Armstrong's trial. Apples vs. oranges Ilian
Brad Anders
> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8826/Lance-Armstrong-investigation-...
If there are impartial third parties that heard LA threaten Tyler,
then LA is definitely in trouble. If there are videotapes that show LA
acting in a threatening manner towards Tyler, or there are impartial
third parties that saw him act threateningly, then LA is definitely in
trouble. However, if it just comes down to Tyler's word against LA's
word, I doubt anything will happen - and that's what it's looking like
right now. The videotapes don't seem to exist, and at least in that
article, it doesn't seem anyone other than Tyler and Lance actually
heard their conversation.
BL
It has already been reported that Armstrong physically stopped Hamilton.
That lends credibility to Hamilton's allegations. If you bothered to
read the article, you'd have read that tampering charges are often
brought with only the witness' statement of what happened. I suggest
that you also take a good look at the description of the meeting on the
Outside reporter's blog.
The fact that the restaurant owner has admitted giving Armstrong advance
warning of Hamilton's presence is also a major problem for Armstrong as
his presence and physical stopping of Hamilton indicates intent to
intimidate.
It is being reported elsewhere the the US Attorney has, in a letter to
Armstrong's counsel, asked for Armstrong to relate his side of the
encounter. Lance truly screwed himself.
ilan
Moreover, during the USPS years, Armstrong was well known for
following his teammates and taking shelter from the wind as well as
taking pace, thereby using them for his own ends. During all those
tour wins, did any other rider from USPS win a stage, why did one of
his teammates only win a stage when they switched to Discovery
Channel? Inquiring minds want to know.....
-ilan
BL
Jimmy July
Tell us more of your hatred of oranges...
Jimmy July
This is so much like that time Lance was screwed for using Ebay that
it's scary.
If Lance ultimately IS screwed you will have called it, since you've
pretty much called every possibility/impossibility.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:VeGdnZ9F3ZOR-J_T...@giganews.com...
> On 6/22/2011 5:29 PM, Brad Anders wrote:
>> On Jun 22, 1:49 pm, BL<b...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8826/Lance-Armstrong-investigation-...
>>
>> If there are impartial third parties that heard LA threaten Tyler,
>> then LA is definitely in trouble. If there are videotapes that show
>> LA
>> acting in a threatening manner towards Tyler, or there are impartial
>> third parties that saw him act threateningly, then LA is definitely
>> in
>> trouble. However, if it just comes down to Tyler's word against LA's
>> word, I doubt anything will happen - and that's what it's looking
>> like
>> right now. The videotapes don't seem to exist, and at least in that
>> article, it doesn't seem anyone other than Tyler and Lance actually
>> heard their conversation.
>
> It has already been reported that Armstrong physically stopped
> Hamilton. That lends credibility to Hamilton's allegations. If you
> bothered to read the article, you'd have read that tampering charges
> are often brought with only the witness' statement of what happened.
Bringing charges against someone is in itself a sort of "tampering with
justice" is it not? Aren't charges often brought without any intent or
belief anything will come of them, because it serves the purpose of
intimidating or putting someone on notice?
> I suggest that you also take a good look at the description of the
> meeting on the Outside reporter's blog.
Which can be summed up, in the blogger's own words, thusly-
"And, despite the twittosphere's hope for more details, that's pretty
much where the story ends: two guys who don't feel very kindly toward
one another ran into each other at a bar. "I was rattled," Hamilton told
me. "I still am.""
Read into that what you wish, but to many, it sounds like the author,
obviously a fan or friend of Tyler, didn't see this as being much more
than a moment of awkwardness.
> The fact that the restaurant owner has admitted giving Armstrong
> advance warning of Hamilton's presence is also a major problem for
> Armstrong as his presence and physical stopping of Hamilton indicates
> intent to intimidate.
There's something a bit odd about the whole coincidence thing. The
article says that Tyler thought Lance was out of town, and thus wouldn't
run into him in the restaurant. Huh? Aspen is small but not tiny; there
are a number of places to eat, and the chances of randomly running into
Lance in one is quite small. On the other hand, the odds of running into
Lance in a restraint which he is known to frequent... well first of all,
it's odd that that's where Tyler would choose to eat, and second... I
don't even know where to go with the second point. It just smells fishy.
Like Tyler was pretending to be the alpha dog in Lance's territory while
Lance was away.
> It is being reported elsewhere the the US Attorney has, in a letter to
> Armstrong's counsel, asked for Armstrong to relate his side of the
> encounter. Lance truly screwed himself.
And why wouldn't he? With all the discussion flying around, including
people talking about charges of witness tampering (has anyone associated
with the case actually brought this up?), of course you'd want to get a
handle on it. And of course that would mean talking with both parties
involved.
Unless Tyler wants to get a restraining order, I don't see this going
anywhere. A restraining order (if appropriate?) would keep this in the
press for some time, and would make Lance a sort of "convicted"
(although not really) bully. That would be bad for Lance. But otherwise,
this is just a distraction from the main event, and that probably works
in Lance's favor. Anything that casts Lance in a bad light personally
plays into his defense that this is all about emotion and not facts.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Simply Fred
>> Doubtful that Simeoni will be anything more than a tourist visiting
>> Armstrong's trial. Apples vs. oranges Ilian
Jimmy July wrote:
> Tell us more of your hatred of oranges...
You sound just like a girl I know called Eliza. You can try and chat her
up here <http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3>.
ilan
> http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8826/Lance-Armstrong-investigation-...
Longo should also be indicted for stealing from children:
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualites/1/sport/a-52-ans-jeannie-longo-remporte-un-58e-titre-national_1005368.html
-ilan
Simply Fred
> On the other hand, the odds of running into
> Lance in a restraint which he is known to frequent...
Perhaps Hamilton should have got a restraining order.
BL
It sounds like the author told what he observed. There's a lot more to
this than just his observations.
>
>> The fact that the restaurant owner has admitted giving Armstrong
>> advance warning of Hamilton's presence is also a major problem for
>> Armstrong as his presence and physical stopping of Hamilton indicates
>> intent to intimidate.
>
> There's something a bit odd about the whole coincidence thing. The
> article says that Tyler thought Lance was out of town, and thus wouldn't
> run into him in the restaurant. Huh? Aspen is small but not tiny; there
> are a number of places to eat, and the chances of randomly running into
> Lance in one is quite small. On the other hand, the odds of running into
> Lance in a restraint which he is known to frequent... well first of all,
> it's odd that that's where Tyler would choose to eat, and second... I
> don't even know where to go with the second point. It just smells fishy.
> Like Tyler was pretending to be the alpha dog in Lance's territory while
> Lance was away.
Good fiction writing on your part. The reality is that Hamilton was
there as part of a gig with Outside Magazine. It appears likely that
Armstrong, having been tipped off to Hamilton's presence in the eatery,
proceeded to the place for a confrontation. The FBI will have access to
texts, email and perhaps even voice communications between the
restaurant owner and others. That the US Attorney has sent a letter
asking for Armstrong's side of the matter is telling. Armstrong is
screwed if he lies and likely screwed if he tells the truth. I'll bet
he refused to comment to the US Attorney which also screws him.
>
>> It is being reported elsewhere the the US Attorney has, in a letter to
>> Armstrong's counsel, asked for Armstrong to relate his side of the
>> encounter. Lance truly screwed himself.
>
> And why wouldn't he? With all the discussion flying around, including
> people talking about charges of witness tampering (has anyone associated
> with the case actually brought this up?), of course you'd want to get a
> handle on it. And of course that would mean talking with both parties
> involved.
ROTFL!! Oh, the US Attorney has a handle on it without any comment from
Armstrong. Asking for Armstrong to comment just makes squeezes the
remaining ball tighter.
>
> Unless Tyler wants to get a restraining order, I don't see this going
> anywhere. A restraining order (if appropriate?) would keep this in the
> press for some time, and would make Lance a sort of "convicted"
> (although not really) bully. That would be bad for Lance. But otherwise,
> this is just a distraction from the main event, and that probably works
> in Lance's favor. Anything that casts Lance in a bad light personally
> plays into his defense that this is all about emotion and not facts.
This is likely to be a significant part of the main event. BTW,
Hamilton doesn't need a restraining order. Title 18 of the US Code
suffices as Lance has no doubt been advised by counsel.
BL
+++++++++++++++++++
Andy Coggan
wrote:
> There's something a bit odd about the whole coincidence thing. The
> article says that Tyler thought Lance was out of town, and thus wouldn't
> run into him in the restaurant. Huh? Aspen is small but not tiny; there
> are a number of places to eat, and the chances of randomly running into
> Lance in one is quite small. On the other hand, the odds of running into
> Lance in a restraint which he is known to frequent... well first of all,
> it's odd that that's where Tyler would choose to eat, and second... I
> don't even know where to go with the second point. It just smells fishy.
Put-up job by Outside magazine?
Andy Coggan
RicodJour
That's the general gist of it. People walk their dogs and have them
piss on someone's lawn they don't like. If it increased sales there'd
be a lot more of it.
It's curious that certain accounts are ignored by the OCD contingent
so they can remain focused on what they want to obsess about - and by
that I mean self-flagellate. There were other witnesses that said
Lance never left his bar stool, and that Tyler went in for a bro-hug
and got rebuffed. Ever hear of an intimidated person going closer to
seek physical contact?
R
BL
think you've been reading Polish and friends over on The Clinic.
Infectious that. LOL!!
The Outside event and Hamilton's involvement were well known in advance.
Unless you're saying that Outside grabbed Armstrong off the street, made
him sit at the bar and forced him to put out his arm to block Hamilton's
path. Armstrong will have to take the responsibility for HIS actions.
Spoken with any Radio Shack trainers lately, Andy?
BL
Andy Coggan
It was merely a possibility that had occurred to me, and I meant
Hamilton's presence in Aspen in general, not the encounter in the bar.
After all, it is hard to imagine too many people paying good money to
ride with Hamilton, so why Outside would bother to bring him to Aspen
in the first place is a bit beyond me. As well, Outside is also the
magazine that ran the pic of Armstrong labeled Pharmstrong on the
cover. It therefore would not surprise me to learn that rather than
merely reporting some news, they tried to orchestrate the creation of
some (and quite successfully at that).
As for Radio Shack trainers, I have not spoken to Allen Lim since
before his association with Landis. I have spoken to the top
physiologist at CTS more recently, but not in the last year or so.
Andy Coggan
William R. Mattil
> Keep rolling, Fanboy. ROTFL!!!!
I think that using the same criteria that you use to determine that
anyone not agreeing with your Lance is cooked theory could also be
turned around. Which makes you and others Novitsky's fanboi's.
Bill
--
William R. Mattil
--D-y
It's not difficult to understand that Outside, which once praised and
lauded Armstrong (while running at least one story on how easy it was
to "get on a program" of doping, written by an amateur competitor)
must emphatically distance itself from "cheating".
This is pulling up their panties when the party got too dirty for
them.
I haven't read that rag for years but have they followed suit with the
"this editor believes Lance doped" crap as seen elsewhere?
I mean, using the direct approach along with the entirely biased "he
said-she said" reporting of The Meeting?
Outside's event is annual? Implies contact with the local "culture",
including knowing something of the general movements and habits of the
famous who live there, by comments of restaurant workers and so forth,
in "typical" and common small-town gossip-- except it's Aspen and the
subjects of the gossip are famous.
So, why go to the Cash Cash when you know Lance is a regular, and
Texas is experiencing a heat wave (referring to the many Texans and
others who have long fled hot summer months elsewhere to enjoy the
summer climate of the Western Slope)?
Setup, all the way. Including having a number of biased "witnesses"
who were partying on the Outside tab, which, no surprise, doesn't
always remember to tip their servers.
When are we going to drop the Holy Righteousness thing, Brian? This is
a witch hunt, no matter who-ever did what-ever; others apparently
share your undying outrage at All Things Armstrong and your passion to
"bring him down".
As an ignorant watcher with no "insider" knowledge, I predict there
will be intervention from higher offices, and Lance will join the
league of retired athletes who still have theirs regardless of what
was in the medicine cabinet.
They were all doping, and they're probably still doping. We don't know
for sure because the tests suck. Stay tuned!
OK, you can call me a fucktard fanboy now if it makes you feel better.
--D-y
BL
> On 6/23/2011 10:18 AM, BL wrote:
>
>> Keep rolling, Fanboy. ROTFL!!!!
>
> I think that using the same criteria that you use to determine that
> anyone not agreeing with your Lance is cooked theory could also be
> turned around. Which makes you and others Novitsky's fanboi's.
>
>
> Bill
BL
Any facts to back up your speculation?
>
> As for Radio Shack trainers, I have not spoken to Allen Lim since
> before his association with Landis. I have spoken to the top
> physiologist at CTS more recently, but not in the last year or so.
Be sure to not hold anything back from the Feds if the come a calling.
>
> Andy Coggan
>
BL
MagillaGorilla
I think Lance was just trying to get in the break that day.
Ken Papai
MagillaGorilla
Actually, that's one part of Gunderson's life strategy that he executed
flawlessly. In a stage race, your teammates aren't suppose to be trying to
win meaningless stages. It's all about the GC.
Stage wins are for loser teams like Sky, HTC, and Garmin who have to show
their sponsors something on paper....or in the case of Bob Stapleton, his
friends who just so happen to sponsor his team.
Magilla
MagillaGorilla
Andy Coggan wrote:
You'll be able to talk to Allen Lim next summer...so long as you accept his collect call from San Francisco
Metro Jail where he'll be doing 12 months for perjury. Jackie Chan thinks lying to a federal grand jury is a
like lying to a reporter from fucking cyclingnews.
He's gonna find out the hard way it's not.
Magilla
Andy Coggan
None whatsoever. That's why it is called speculation.
> > As for Radio Shack trainers, I have not spoken to Allen Lim since
> > before his association with Landis. I have spoken to the top
> > physiologist at CTS more recently, but not in the last year or so.
>
> Be sure to not hold anything back from the Feds if the come a calling.
Yeah, like *that's* going to happen...they'd learn more by subponeaing
Tugboat.
Andy Coggan
Frederick the Great
<e505b3fd-bb7d-4c9d...@j14g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
As you say further on, they simply changed clientele.
--
Old Fritz
BL
More precisely, it's called uninformed speculation.
>
>>> As for Radio Shack trainers, I have not spoken to Allen Lim since
>>> before his association with Landis. I have spoken to the top
>>> physiologist at CTS more recently, but not in the last year or so.
>>
>> Be sure to not hold anything back from the Feds if the come a calling.
>
> Yeah, like *that's* going to happen...they'd learn more by subponeaing
> Tugboat.
Tug was pretty smart. He bailed early on.
>
> Andy Coggan
>
Vagina Gorilla
> Tug was pretty smart. He bailed early on.
>
>
>
> > Andy Coggan
Man's best fucking friend my ass.
That kind of betrayal makes you want to eat your brother in the womb
like sharks do.
--D-y
Roger. WILCO.
Glad you feel better.
--D-y
Jimmy July
> On 6/23/2011 4:21 PM, Andy Coggan wrote:
>> None whatsoever. That's why it is called speculation.
>
> More precisely, it's called uninformed speculation.
Are taking a stand against uninformed speculation or in favor of it?
BL
WTF do you think?
ilan
Take this for what it's worth, but everything you post here could be
scrutinized by federal authorities. One simple reason is that since
there isn't much actual evidence, they could start looking at any
random objectively verifiable scribbling by someone with actual
credentials.
In other words, prudence is indicated when people are under
investigation for bar room non brawls.
-ilan
Fredmaster of Brainerd
Actually, this explains a lot.
Coggan is well advised to post here as it gives the
investigators something meaningless to trawl through,
but easy to find. It's much better to be subpoenaed about
some random thing you posted on Usenet, than to have
the investigators, failing to find any actual evidence easily,
decide that they should subpoena, say, the email and lab
notebooks of anyone who was ever in the same room
as Allen Lim. Not that that would reveal anything, but
the subpoena would be a royal pain in the ass to deal with.
It's a bit like the old joke about how there's a one in a million
chance there's a bomb on an airplane, but there's a one in
a trillion chance there are _two_ bombs on an airplane,
so to be safe you should always carry a bomb on yourself.
At least that way you know the bomb is under control.
Similarly, I expect that this whole barroom non-brawl
is a setup by LANCE to distract attention - now no one will
ever figure out that he had the kitchen at Cache Cache
cut up and serve Basso's dog, so it couldn't be introduced
as material evidence.
But Birillo was old and a bit tough, hence the kerfuffle
about the Outside magazine table being dissatisfied and
leaving without a tip. It all hangs together, you see?
The truth is out there, and on any given Tuesday,
it may come to light.
Fredmaster of Puppets Ben
Anton Berlin
> seek physical contact?
Oh retard of the day you disappoint us all when you type without
thinking...MMA fighters wanting to knee someone
A. Dumas
> On Jun 23, 5:55 pm, ilan wrote:
>> On Jun 23, 10:21 pm, Andy Coggan wrote:
>>> Yeah, like *that's* going to happen...they'd learn more by subponeaing
>>> Tugboat.
>>
Ha ha! Excellent.
Jimmy July
I think it depends on who's doing the uninformed speculating. You're
fond enough of your own.