It *could* have been the story of the race
Mike Jacoubowsky
appeared to be completely within himself, on the TV coverage almost
casually cruising up to say "Hi guys, how are things going at the pointy
end of the race?" He was in a position to cover any moves on Popo, and
we were in a position to see if there was anything left in those old
legs on what appears to have been the toughest stage of the race so far.
And then he's called back to help Levi. It's not clear that he knew
entirely what was going on; it's possible that he was having too much
fun seeing what he could do and wasn't paying attention. The way he
soft-pedals just after catching and looks back was almost a Jens Voight
sort of thing.
We'll never know what might have happened. And Levi's not so far back
that a podium finish is out of the question, so it's not likely we'll
see Lance set free to have fun on Tuesday's big stage either.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
raa...@gmail.com
wrote:
I think he is physically preparing, while mentally resting, for bigger
things, afterall, he is riding into form.
RicodJour
wrote:
Yeah, I agree it was pathetic. ;) That was my exact impression as
well. When he pulled up to them he appeared to be toodling along and
having fun doing it. I was waiting for some double takes, but I
didn't see any. I think LANCE's moment of doubt has passed.
I kind of wish that Levi had lost more time so LANCE would have some
more freedom to test his fitness and mess with some people's minds
before the Tour. Oh wait, you're the guy that's going to go watch the
Tour. You suck!
R
DirtRoadie
wrote:
> We'll never know what might have happened. And Levi's not so far back
> that a podium finish is out of the question, so it's not likely we'll
> see Lance set free to have fun on Tuesday's big stage either.
I predict that no known rider will win a Giro stage on Tuesday and,
likewise, there will be no changes in the GC.
DR
Mike Jacoubowsky
"DirtRoadie" <DirtR...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0cef5adf-ee0c-48f7...@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 8:44 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> We'll never know what might have happened. And Levi's not so far back
> that a podium finish is out of the question, so it's not likely we'll
> see Lance set free to have fun on Tuesday's big stage either.
>>I predict that no known rider will win a Giro stage on Tuesday and,
Yes, that would be correct. I meant Wednesday's stage. Tomorrow is, of
course, a rest day. Having a day off today mixed me up.
>>likewise, there will be no changes in the GC.
>>DR
That might not be true. Consider the vampires.
Keith
<Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>When Lance bridged up to the group of leaders on the final climb, he
>appeared to be completely within himself, on the TV coverage almost
>casually cruising up to say "Hi guys, how are things going at the pointy
>end of the race?" He was in a position to cover any moves on Popo, and
>we were in a position to see if there was anything left in those old
>legs on what appears to have been the toughest stage of the race so far.
>
>And then he's called back to help Levi.
You're kidding right, or you didn't see the stage ? He just blew up
when Basso attacked again. He selfishly dropped Levi AND brought back
Sastre and then couldn''t keep up so figured he might as well do the
right thing and help his leader.
This is NOT the Armstrong who bridged the gap in a breeze on that
terrible stage in the Pyrenees in 2005 when Basso and Ullrich had
gone clear for a few seconds;
P. Chisholm
wrote:
Right, he lost almost 3 minutes prior to a rest day while Sastre,
Basso and even PelliZotti continued to be strong. I think Menchov has
this one, DiLua second, Basso or Sastre for the third step. Levi will
continue to fade. A teeny TT in Rome isn't going to change that. He's
not going to gain a minute on Sastre, nor even seconds on Basso.
wino...@yahoo.com
>
> - Mostrar texto de la cita -
Agreed, Lance definitely looked good bridging up to the top cats, but
couldn´t handle the attacks. He´s slowly but surely coming into form.
On the other hand Levi doesn´t appear close to DiLuca, Basso or
Sastre in form. They are surging while he seems to be fading. I
thought he was waiting, biding his time, but after yesterday I suspect
he´s peaked and will fade into a support role the rest of the season.
Still in cycling things and form can change over night. I´m looking
forward to the rest of this Giro.
Keith
>hey are surging while he seems to be fading. I
>thought he was waiting, biding his time, but after yesterday I suspect
>he´s peaked and will fade into a support role the rest of the season.
>Still in cycling things and form can change over night.
That's not been my experience following cycling over the past 30
years, other than the occasional (and now rare...) bad day a rider is
strong throughout a GT with the best ones keeping their strength
throughout.
You could almost extend that to a "season form", the exceptions being
Lemond in 1989 when he did poorly at the Giro that Figon won and then
won the TDF...barely.
Let's face it, Leppy is 35 and if he was of the GT winner category,
we' know it by now.
Keith
Or Riis in 1996 on the way up to Hautacam...oops do I see a pattern
here...
Bob Schwartz
> That's not been my experience following cycling over the past 30
> years,
Dumbass,
You keep mentioning that. When my kid was 12 we went to the Gent
6 day and by the 4th night she could look at the Derny pairings
and predict the winner.
You, on the other hand, have been following the sport for 30
years and you're still as dumb as a post. You get so many things
wrong the peloton would literally explode trying to keep up.
Bob Schwartz
RicodJour
wrote:
That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
long."
If wisdom came automatically with age, we'd all be living in a
peaceful society where the words 'Department of Defense' would bring
looks of confusion, fat drunk guys wouldn't step in front of riders
and we'd all be getting laid a lot more. That's assuming that with
wisdom comes figuring out women, and I know that's a stretch. ;)
R
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:6lln15lqdk0rrinbf...@4ax.com...
You're right. It was a much bigger gap yesterday, and Armstrong didn't
have to cover any moves in 2005 for a team mate up the road like he did
yesterday. Were you watching the same race as everyone else or what?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Keith" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:6lln15lqdk0rrinbf...@4ax.com...
Keith
>>
>> You're kidding right, or you didn't see the stage ? He just blew up
>> when Basso attacked again. He selfishly dropped Levi AND brought back
>> Sastre and then couldn''t keep up so figured he might as well do the
>> right thing and help his leader.
>>
>> This is NOT the Armstrong who bridged the gap in a breeze on that
>> terrible stage in the Pyrenees in 2005 when Basso and Ullrich had
>> gone clear for a few seconds;
>
>You're right. It was a much bigger gap yesterday, and Armstrong didn't
>have to cover any moves in 2005 for a team mate up the road like he did
>yesterday. Were you watching the same race as everyone else or what?
>
>--Mike Jacoubowsky
>Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReaction.com
>Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
I'm confused, I generally enjoy your posts that are well written and
level headed unlike most of the crap that gets posted here by the
usual suspects, but that you would think that LA prefered to wait for
Leppy after he bridged (and brought back Satre) let alone was ordered
by Bruyneel to do so, instead of staying with the leaders is puzzling
to me...We're not talking Pauwels here, we're talking a seven time
winner who has a killer instinct.
Bottom line, he couldn't keep up with Sastre, Basso, Menchov and Di
Luca just like he couldn't in the previous stages and won't be able to
tomorrow and on Friday;
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> That's not been my experience following cycling over the past 30
> years, other than the occasional (and now rare...) bad day a rider is
> strong throughout a GT with the best ones keeping their strength
> throughout.
>
> You could almost extend that to a "season form", the exceptions being
> Lemond in 1989 when he did poorly at the Giro that Figon won and then
> won the TDF...barely.
<snip>
Dumbass -
That is completely wrong.
Do you remember when Indurain was roundly criticized for only peaking
for the TdF?
He wouldn't do the Spring Classics. He wouldn't do the Autumn
Classics. He didn't seriously try the Vuelta.
One of the "innovations" that LemonD ushered in was the effectiveness
of concentrating an entire year's training on the TdF.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
> construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
> they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
> and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
> long."
<snip>
Dumbass -
The Construction Industry is *so* resistant to trying out new
technology and techniques.
I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
looking forward to the day of CNC'd homes,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Mike Jacoubowsky
I watched the coverage a couple of time, and to *me* it appeared that
Armstrong bridged the gap pretty darned easily, then sat up, looked back
and dropped off. To *me* it appeared that he'd been told Levi was in
trouble, drop back and help him out. To *me* it appeared that Lance took
off essentially to prove something (that he could still ride at the
pointy end and chase people down), which he did.
Yes, Lance has a killer instinct, and it showed. But he also said he was
riding for Levi, and he did.
Unfortunately, Levi isn't out of the podium picture, so tomorrow the
team has to ride with that in mind. It could have been very different
otherwise. Then again, think how much more fun it would have been had
Chris Horner been there as well. Imagine the firepower of Horner, Popo,
Lance & Levi all working together.
But this race has been less about team work and more about the
incredible tenacity of Di Lucca. If only we could have seen a full-on Di
Lucca/Armstrong battle!
But this is all theory and conjecture, and we don't really know just how
strong Lance is. I suspect he can mount incredible one-day efforts but
isn't likely to recover and do the same thing the next day (which is
often needed for a GT winner). And we're not likely to see the Lance
we'd enjoy seeing unless Astana either really has a race gift wrapped &
ready to go or is so far off the back they have no podium chance at all.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Keith" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1seo159p9ktdusfev...@4ax.com...
Keith
This is completey off topic, reread the previous message. After you
sad lapse of the other day (Menchov never won a GT) I'm concerned
you're slowly losing it...
Keith
Thanks for stating your position in detail, but I'm positive he
couldn't keep up, and we know he would have told us too...'I was in a
great shape but heard Levi was struggling so I waited for hum".
In fact Basso accelerated again just when he saw LA had bridged, a
classic tactic to get rid of a guy who's made a big effort to bridge.
>But this is all theory and conjecture, and we don't really know just how
>strong Lance is. I suspect he can mount incredible one-day efforts but
>isn't likely to recover and do the same thing the next day (which is
>often needed for a GT winner). And we're not likely to see the Lance
>we'd enjoy seeing
I've enjoyed him more in these two weeks than in all his TDF wins
after, except in 2003 where he seemed "normal".
I never enjoyed seeing him trash the competiton everywhere, the best
ITT guys in ITTs (Ullrich) and the best climbers in moutain top
finishes. This never made sense to me.
The way Menchov rides is more "natural", he keeps an eye on the
climbers as he knows he can't catch them all in 2005 LA would have
just bridged to Sastre and killed him off.
cur...@the-md-russells.org
>Thanks for stating your position in detail, but I'm positive he
>couldn't keep up, and we know he would have told us too...'I was in a
>great shape but heard Levi was struggling so I waited for hum".
Waiting for hum is a uniquely rbr approach to bike racing. I doubt
pros do that on the road. I understand Kelly didn't do it even after
the stages were over. Benjo could tell us if that was rumor or fact,
at least to the extent facts apply to rbr.
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
cur...@the-md-russells.org
Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>One of the "innovations" that LemonD ushered in was the effectiveness
>of concentrating an entire year's training on the TdF.
??? LemonD was a regular candidate and occasional winner of the Pernod
or whatever it was called when he was racing. You are saying that he
could place well all year long while training for the Tour?
Sandy
news:1d58bcab-9bb6-4047...@d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. <kgrin...@hotmail.com> a r�fl�chi, et puis
a d�clar� :
Birds of a feather syndrome? Coupled with Alzheimer's?
You've got a thing going for Keith, OK. But you've got a Keith disorder
when it comes to Lemond.
You may just want to look at http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/ for
therapy.
Maybe it's an Armstrong syndrome, where you can't focus on anything but the
TdF?
--
Sandy
-
"Our knowledge is a little island in a great ocean of non-knowledge."
- Edward O. Wilson
Susan Walker
> You may just want to look at http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/ for
> therapy.
> Maybe it's an Armstrong syndrome, where you can't focus on anything but the
> TdF?
Well, that website hid everything behind paid registration *except* the
Tour.
Sandy
Susan Walker <myful...@xs4all.nl.invalid> a r�fl�chi, et puis a d�clar� :
Not for me, but you can try another ...
There you go, sugar(beet).
--
--
Sandy
--
Si les autres parties du monde ont des singes ; l'Europe a des Fran�ais.
Cela se compense.
[Arthur Schopenhauer]
Susan Walker
> Susan Walker a r�fl�chi, et puis a d�clar� :
>> Sandy wrote:
>>> http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/
>>
>> Well, that website hid everything behind paid registration *except*
>> the Tour.
>
> Not for me, but you can try another ...
Podiums are still listed but details require logging in.
Fred Fredburger
He also stopped to commit genocide against the Serbs. That didn't help
his time any.
Fred Fredburger
> That's not been my experience following cycling over the past 30
> years, other than the occasional (and now rare...) bad day a rider is
> strong throughout a GT with the best ones keeping their strength
> throughout.
Cadel Evans?
Keith
>On Tue, 26 May 2009 12:27:01 -0700 (PDT), "Kurgan. presented by
>Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>One of the "innovations" that LemonD ushered in was the effectiveness
>>of concentrating an entire year's training on the TdF.
>
>
>??? LemonD was a regular candidate and occasional winner of the Pernod
>or whatever it was called when he was racing. You are saying that he
>could place well all year long while training for the Tour?
Correct, but don't mind Kurgan who's been losing it lately, Lemond
only really focused on the tour starting in 1990, pretty late in his
career
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> On Tue, 26 May 2009 12:27:01 -0700 (PDT), "Kurgan. presented by
>
>
> >One of the "innovations" that LemonD ushered in was the effectiveness
> >of concentrating an entire year's training on the TdF.
>
> ??? LemonD was a regular candidate and occasional winner of the Pernod
> or whatever it was called when he was racing. You are saying that he
> could place well all year long while training for the Tour?
Dumbass -
Early in his career, ya, but after his shooting accident, LemonD
started the "peak for the TdF" trend.
After doing 2 Giro-Tour doubles, Indurain followed suit.
There was plenty of yakking in this newsgroup about Indurain's season
targets. Everyone wanted to see him do some of the big Spring Classics
in a serious manner. Imagine what a force he'd have been at Paris-
Roubaix.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
That is correct and it backs up what I wrote. LemonD started that
trend.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> Dans le message denews:1d58bcab-9bb6-4047...@d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com,
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. <kgringi...@hotmail.com> a réfléchi, et puis
> a déclaré :
Dumbass -
LemonD started the "peak for the TdF" trend in 1989. See my response
to Curtis.
Jack Hollis
<Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
>> Bottom line, he couldn't keep up with Sastre, Basso, Menchov and Di
>> Luca just like he couldn't in the previous stages and won't be able to
>> tomorrow and on Friday;
>
>I watched the coverage a couple of time, and to *me* it appeared that
>Armstrong bridged the gap pretty darned easily, then sat up, looked back
>and dropped off. To *me* it appeared that he'd been told Levi was in
>trouble, drop back and help him out. To *me* it appeared that Lance took
>off essentially to prove something (that he could still ride at the
>pointy end and chase people down), which he did.
Lance's goal is to use the Giro to prepare for the Tour. So it's hard
to judge exactly what he's done, or will do, in the Gero. It will all
become clear in July.
Ryan Cousineau
Rico, why all the hate for fat drunk guys? Also, some of them are
young.
Totally thought the DoD was cooler when they were the War Department,
Michael Press
Keith <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>>And then he's called back to help Levi.
> >>
> >> You're kidding right, or you didn't see the stage ? He just blew up
> >> when Basso attacked again. He selfishly dropped Levi AND brought back
> >> Sastre and then couldn''t keep up so figured he might as well do the
> >> right thing and help his leader.
> >>
> >> This is NOT the Armstrong who bridged the gap in a breeze on that
> >> terrible stage in the Pyrenees in 2005 when Basso and Ullrich had
> >> gone clear for a few seconds;
> >
> >You're right. It was a much bigger gap yesterday, and Armstrong didn't
> >have to cover any moves in 2005 for a team mate up the road like he did
> >yesterday. Were you watching the same race as everyone else or what?
>
> I'm confused, I generally enjoy your posts that are well written and
> level headed unlike most of the crap that gets posted here by the
> usual suspects,
In rbt Andre Jute did everyone the favor of listing
the antisocial miscreants. Would you publish a similar list for rbr?
<5ad91a8f-682e-4098...@d25g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
--
Michael Press
Donald Munro
> In rbt Andre Jute did everyone the favor of listing the antisocial
> miscreants. Would you publish a similar list for rbr?
Kunich has lots of lists and lists of lists too. Ask him.
Donald Munro
> There was plenty of yakking in this newsgroup about Indurain's season
> targets. Everyone wanted to see him do some of the big Spring Classics in
> a serious manner. Imagine what a force he'd have been at Paris- Roubaix.
Perhaps he could have won both Paris- Roubaix and LBL.
Donald Munro
> He also stopped to commit genocide against the Serbs. That didn't help his
> time any.
Hopefully Radovan Karadzic will be able to use the fact that he
was just a domestique in his defense.
Donald Munro
>>Thanks for stating your position in detail, but I'm positive he couldn't
>>keep up, and we know he would have told us too...'I was in a great shape
>>but heard Levi was struggling so I waited for hum".
curtis wrote:
> Waiting for hum is a uniquely rbr approach to bike racing. I doubt pros
> do that on the road.
rbr residents are all unknowing actors in a play called Waiting for Hum;
we never seem completely able to depart
Donald Munro
> Totally thought the DoD was cooler when they were the War Department,
rbr used to have a war department but I must have drunk too much to
remember who the secretary was. OTOH it may have been the
whore department.
RicodJour
> On May 26, 9:21 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 26, 10:25 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Keith wrote:
> > > > That's not been my experience following cycling over the past 30
> > > > years,
>
> > > Dumbass,
>
> > > You keep mentioning that. When my kid was 12 we went to the Gent
> > > 6 day and by the 4th night she could look at the Derny pairings
> > > and predict the winner.
>
> > > You, on the other hand, have been following the sport for 30
> > > years and you're still as dumb as a post. You get so many things
> > > wrong the peloton would literally explode trying to keep up.
>
> > That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
> > construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
> > they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
> > and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
> > long."
>
> > If wisdom came automatically with age, we'd all be living in a
> > peaceful society where the words 'Department of Defense' would bring
> > looks of confusion, fat drunk guys wouldn't step in front of riders
> > and we'd all be getting laid a lot more. That's assuming that with
> > wisdom comes figuring out women, and I know that's a stretch. ;)
>
>
> young.
Let me drop a deuce on you.
1). I only hate the fat drunk guys that step in front of riders, grab
their arms, or won't take "I don't want your steenkin' water!" for an
answer.
2). Blinded and staggering drunk, you wouldn't step in front of a
rider. You'd have the good graces to fall out of the way.
> Totally thought the DoD was cooler when they were the War Department,
Euphemisms are double plus good, particularly when you can defend by
invading.
R
RicodJour
> young.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE54Q2OT20090527
Last paragraph!
It's the end of the world as you know it.
R
Ryan Cousineau
<b9a6c816-0a3e-41e2...@w9g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 26, 9:21�am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > That always kills me. �I first ran into that when I was a young
> > construction manager. �I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
> > they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
> > and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
> > long."
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> The Construction Industry is *so* resistant to trying out new
> technology and techniques.
>
> I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
>
>
> looking forward to the day of CNC'd homes,
>
> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
I'm beginning to think that decent, inexpensive pre-fab construction is
going to arrive on the same day that the first Tokamak fusion power
plant goes onto the grid, and the same day that the Moller Skycar
dealership opens.
In reality-world land, the future is building homes out of lightly used
2-TEU shipping containers.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Ryan Cousineau
<fb470f28-b445-46ea...@g20g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
The stupid Italians probably thought the hapless Yankee's maple leaf
patch was some sort of Man U logo.
Soccer is one of those sports that works better on TV than in person. I
watched the Champions League final in Athens, with family, and had beer
(Kaiser pilsner) and a meal during halftime.
Stay tuned for my hilarious review of the Four Standard Beers of Greece.
Bob Schwartz
> In article
> <b9a6c816-0a3e-41e2...@w9g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 26, 9:21 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>>> That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
>>> construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
>>> they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
>>> and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
>>> long."
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dumbass -
>>
>>
>> The Construction Industry is *so* resistant to trying out new
>> technology and techniques.
>>
>> I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
>>
>>
>> looking forward to the day of CNC'd homes,
>>
>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> I'm beginning to think that decent, inexpensive pre-fab construction is
> going to arrive on the same day that the first Tokamak fusion power
> plant goes onto the grid, and the same day that the Moller Skycar
> dealership opens.
>
> In reality-world land, the future is building homes out of lightly used
> 2-TEU shipping containers.
>
Kurgan will appreciate this:
http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogeler/w367/styles/s27.htm
At the bottom is a post-war pre-fab steel house, with a very rare
steel garage.
Bob Schwartz
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> In article
> <b9a6c816-0a3e-41e2-ab0e-44ed446fa...@w9g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 26, 9:21 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
> > > construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
> > > they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
> > > and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
> > > long."
>
> > <snip>
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > The Construction Industry is *so* resistant to trying out new
> > technology and techniques.
>
> > I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
>
> > looking forward to the day of CNC'd homes,
>
> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> I'm beginning to think that decent, inexpensive pre-fab construction is
> going to arrive on the same day that the first Tokamak fusion power
> plant goes onto the grid, and the same day that the Moller Skycar
> dealership opens.
>
> In reality-world land, the future is building homes out of lightly used
> 2-TEU shipping containers.
Dumbass -
Have you seen Container City?
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > In article
> > "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On May 26, 9:21 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> >>> That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
> >>> construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
> >>> they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
> >>> and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
> >>> long."
> >> <snip>
>
> >> Dumbass -
>
> >> The Construction Industry is *so* resistant to trying out new
> >> technology and techniques.
>
> >> I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
>
> >> looking forward to the day of CNC'd homes,
>
> >> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> > I'm beginning to think that decent, inexpensive pre-fab construction is
> > going to arrive on the same day that the first Tokamak fusion power
> > plant goes onto the grid, and the same day that the Moller Skycar
> > dealership opens.
>
> > In reality-world land, the future is building homes out of lightly used
> > 2-TEU shipping containers.
>
> Kurgan will appreciate this:
>
> http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogeler/w367/styles/s27.htm
>
> At the bottom is a post-war pre-fab steel house, with a very rare
> steel garage.
Dumbass -
I like the quote:
"Despite the claim that Americans are practical and efficient, the
inexpensive and low maintenance trailers and Lustron-type houses have
never been acceptable and therefore rather uncommon."
We need the CNC'd home. That way everyone can still have their custom
bullshit, feel like they're ahead of the Joneses and it'll still be
efficient.
bjwe...@gmail.com
Dumbass,
It isn't pre-fab, but I just wanted to let you know
this house is on the market:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/370-Beech-Street_Highland-Park_IL_60035_1109385563
Ben
Susan Walker
> It isn't pre-fab, but I just wanted to let you know
> this house is on the market:
>
> http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/370-Beech-Street_Highland-Park_IL_60035_1109385563
Bloody hell! Does it come with a 1961 Ferrari 250GT California?
RicodJour
wrote:
> On May 29, 11:11 am, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." wrote:
> > Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
> > > Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > > > "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> On May 26, 9:21 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >>> That always kills me. I first ran into that when I was a young
> > > >>> construction manager. I'd tell someone how it had to be done, and
> > > >>> they'd _always_ say, "I've been doing it this way for 20/30 years!"
> > > >>> and I'd fire back, "Yeah, and you've been doing it _wrong_ for that
> > > >>> long."
> > > >> <snip>
>
>
> > > >> technology and techniques.
>
> > > >> I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
I'm sure they were saying the same thing about you, dumbass. I agree
with you, but you're still a dumbass for making such a comment. It
shows lack of stick-to-it-iveness.
> > > >> looking forward to the day of CNC'd homes,
>
>
> > > > I'm beginning to think that decent, inexpensive pre-fab construction is
> > > > going to arrive on the same day that the first Tokamak fusion power
> > > > plant goes onto the grid, and the same day that the Moller Skycar
> > > > dealership opens.
>
> > > > In reality-world land, the future is building homes out of lightly used
> > > > 2-TEU shipping containers.
>
> > > Kurgan will appreciate this:
>
> > >http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogeler/w367/styles/s27.htm
>
> > > At the bottom is a post-war pre-fab steel house, with a very rare
> > > steel garage.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > I like the quote:
>
> > "Despite the claim that Americans are practical and efficient, the
> > inexpensive and low maintenance trailers and Lustron-type houses have
> > never been acceptable and therefore rather uncommon."
Who the fuck ever claimed Americans were "efficient"? I don't even
know what that means in this context and I'm in the business.
> > We need the CNC'd home. That way everyone can still have their custom
> > bullshit, feel like they're ahead of the Joneses and it'll still be
> > efficient.
>
>
> It isn't pre-fab, but I just wanted to let you know
> this house is on the market:
>
> http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/370-Beech-Street_Hig...
>
> http://snipurl.com/j15z4
What horseshit. 3/4 of an acre and glass walls? Maybe if your wife/
girlfriend was a total exhibitionist it'd work, but that would mean
she's a slut and banging the handyman and going to take the house from
you. You'd probably find out about her banging the handyman while you
were perusing YouPorn.
Noted architects indeed. They meant derivative. Philip Johnson did
it on an appropriate site, and after that it's been the trite copying
the trite.
R
dave a
I note that it is being "estate sale sold, no disclosures", whatever
that means. I didn't realize you could sell real estate without
disclosures. I'm assuming that the roof leaks and there are foundation
problems with the cantilever.
- dave a
RicodJour
> b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > It isn't pre-fab, but I just wanted to let you know
> > this house is on the market:
>
>
> Bloody hell! Does it come with a 1961 Ferrari 250GT California?
If it came with Ferris' girlfriend I'd be more interested. Cars are
for kids and mid-life crises.
R
Carl Sundquist
"RicodJour" <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:7af8b31b-15ac-4c48...@21g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
----
RicodJour
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On May 29, 3:47 pm, Susan Walker <myfulln...@xs4all.nl.invalid> wrote:
>
> > b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> > > It isn't pre-fab, but I just wanted to let you know
> > > this house is on the market:
>
> > >http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/370-Beech-Street_Hig...
>
> > Bloody hell! Does it come with a 1961 Ferrari 250GT California?
>
> If it came with Ferris' girlfriend I'd be more interested. Cars are
> for kids and mid-life crises.
>
> ----
>
> http://www.tmz.com/tag/Mia+sara/
That's not Ferris' girlfriend, that's an actress. I want the
original, b-dammit!
"Mia has a kid with Sean Connery's son and another child with Jim
Henson's son."
A muppet with a license to kill?
Zardoz and Farscape? Well, that one actually works.
I wonder where she goes for the holidays...
R
Paul G.
> > > > > "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> I built a house and by the end, I'd had enough.
>
> I'm sure they were saying the same thing about you, dumbass.
That's funny, no doubt they referred to him as "the customer from
hell".
-Paul
RicodJour
Kurgan would be a piece of cake to work with, don't kid yourself.
R
Susan Walker
More importantly for them, with him being the big trust fund baby that
he is, there would be no money issues.
Michael Press
<cd0b9f7a-6c07-4b33...@n21g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Don't say cnc around here.
--
Michael Press
Robert Chung
> I'm beginning to think that decent, inexpensive pre-fab construction
> is going to arrive on the same day that the first Tokamak fusion power
> plant goes onto the grid, and the same day that the Moller Skycar
> dealership opens.
>
> In reality-world land, the future is building homes out of lightly
> used 2-TEU shipping containers.
Unfortunately, this pre-fab home builder just announced that they had to
close shop:
http://www.mkd-arc.com/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ontheblock/detail?entry_id=40838
Ryan Cousineau
"Robert Chung" <anonymou...@invalid.address> wrote:
Yeah, unfortunate:
"It can be built in as little as 10 to 14 months at a cost comparable to
or below traditional site-built homes."
It does look like a beautiful home but that sentence does beg to be read
as "our lead time is 2 years and it will cost more than a site-built
home."
Manufactured homes don't cut it right now. Every one that looks pleasant
enough to live in costs more than having a home built the old-fashioned
way. Architects and design firms like to produce manufactured-home
concepts at a torrid pace, but nobody is seriously marketing one that
acts like it's trying to be a competitive product. The only real
manufactured-home market appears to be the standard tornado-fodder and
double-wides, and those aren't especially impressive as examples of
either housing or mass production.
RicodJour
> In article <9V%Tl.27671$c45.9...@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com>,
...in this country. Japan does quite a bit of it.
http://www.momoy.com/2009/05/22/small-japanese-family-residence-by-kenji-tanaka/
R
Ryan Cousineau
<2e61ed98-38e6-48f3...@p4g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
It's small, but are you sure it's pre-fab? At best, SHDL seems to be
making custom small homes. This may be close to Kurgan's dream of the
CNC'd home, but I admit I have semi-threadjacked his idea and am more
interested in the idea of a mass-produced (maybe modular) home that
actually costs less than building from scratch on-site.
They're parallel, maybe even convergent ideas, since both Stainless and
I think present home construction should be introduced to
mass-production techniques*
*Now we could have an interesting debate about whether CNC anything is
really mass-production, but I think that ship has sailed now. The
signature example is Apple producing billet-machined aluminum** laptop
bodies by the million, which shocked me when I heard it was
production-feasible.
**As to why they'd do that, I think the answer is provided by my
plastic-bodied late-2007 MacBook, where the case is cracking, flaking
off, and bulging in multiple places. I admit to being brutal to laptops,
but the progressive failure of this computer's case would be an
embarrassment to even the cheapest PC laptop maker. It's beginning to
look like computer leprosy.
Robert Chung
>> Unfortunately, this pre-fab home builder just announced that they
>> had to close shop:
>> http://www.mkd-arc.com/
>>
>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ontheblock/detail?entry_id=40838
>
> Yeah, unfortunate:
>
> "It can be built in as little as 10 to 14 months at a cost comparable
> to or below traditional site-built homes."
>
> It does look like a beautiful home but that sentence does beg to be
> read as "our lead time is 2 years and it will cost more than a
> site-built home."
Have you ever looked at the lead time for a site-built home? 14 months from
walking in the architect's office to getting a turn-key home is pretty damn
short.
Ryan Cousineau
"Robert Chung" <anonymou...@invalid.address> wrote:
I have some second-hand experience with home-building. I think my
father-in-law managed to go from empty lot to usable home in about 2
years, with the caveat that he built the home in Greece while living in
Canada, which surely adds a massive degree of difficulty.
Not to mention the fact that somewhere in the middle of the project, the
authorities informed him that the dwelling would not be aesthetically
acceptable unless the bottom half was clad in stone (rather than left
painted white as the top half was). The island has fairly strict rules
about buildings like that; the size and quantity of windows and doors
were also regulated, so the building would conform to a traditional look.
But that was a pretty extreme scenario.
14 months isn't that bad, depending on what it's competing with, but I
think I'll go with the container-based housing, as soon as I can figure
out how to convince the missus of the Beauty of Corrugated Steel in
2-TEU Chunks.
RicodJour
>
> 14 months isn't that bad, depending on what it's competing with, but I
> think I'll go with the container-based housing, as soon as I can figure
> out how to convince the missus of the Beauty of Corrugated Steel in
> 2-TEU Chunks.
Maybe you'll get an exemption....oh, wait, that's TUE. Nevermind,
you're screwed.
Then again, I just had an idea. This is _right_ up your alley, she'll
believe it, and it will scare the hell out of her, so she'll probably
cave in on any halfway normal idea like a container house. It's a
three point plan.
1). Tell her you want the two of you to build an Earthship. Leave
magazines laying about opened to pages that have pictures like this:
http://kitsandmortar.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/earthship-bottle-wall.jpg
2). Stress how cheap they are to build because you two will be getting
lots and lots of exercise for many hours of many days on end.
3). Point out to her that you'll be recycling your beer cans and
bottles so you'd better start saving them now...and you'll probably
have to up your consumption of alcohol if you want to build it within
the next couple of decades.
She'll be begging for a container house.
You're welcome.
My bill is in the mail.
R
Ryan Cousineau
<80c49a4d-d68f-4a8e...@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
This is excellent advice, and surely worth what I paid for it, but the
day I start building a house out of rammed earth and beer bottles is the
day she has her brother kill me and make it look like an accident.
Let's be serious here: they're Greek, eh?
RicodJour
> In article
> <80c49a4d-d68f-4a8e-a341-b50ebba1e...@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > On May 31, 2:12 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > 14 months isn't that bad, depending on what it's competing with, but I
> > > think I'll go with the container-based housing, as soon as I can figure
> > > out how to convince the missus of the Beauty of Corrugated Steel in
> > > 2-TEU Chunks.
>
> > Maybe you'll get an exemption....oh, wait, that's TUE. Nevermind,
> > you're screwed.
>
> > Then again, I just had an idea. This is _right_ up your alley, she'll
> > believe it, and it will scare the hell out of her, so she'll probably
> > cave in on any halfway normal idea like a container house. It's a
> > three point plan.
>
> > 1). Tell her you want the two of you to build an Earthship. Leave
> > magazines laying about opened to pages that have pictures like this:
>
> > 2). Stress how cheap they are to build because you two will be getting
> > lots and lots of exercise for many hours of many days on end.
>
> > 3). Point out to her that you'll be recycling your beer cans and
> > bottles so you'd better start saving them now...and you'll probably
> > have to up your consumption of alcohol if you want to build it within
> > the next couple of decades.
>
> > She'll be begging for a container house.
> > You're welcome.
> > My bill is in the mail.
>
>
> day I start building a house out of rammed earth and beer bottles is the
> day she has her brother kill me and make it look like an accident.
>
> Let's be serious here: they're Greek, eh?
...oh. Don't let them see these posts. And the last one was forged
anyway.
R
Ryan Cousineau
<4501d783-f43d-4dce...@o30g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote:
Never Mind....
[wait, Rico doesn't know who "Emily Litella" is, does he?]
RicodJour
> In article RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > On May 31, 10:23 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Let's be serious here: they're Greek, eh?
>
> > ...oh. Don't let them see these posts. And the last one was forged
> > anyway.
>
>
>
> [wait, Rico doesn't know who "Emily Litella" is, does he?]
Roseanne Rosannadanna's cousin.
Didn't catch the reference first go round.
Maya (Angelou) Culpa
R