300k+ a year
GoneBeforeMyTime
http://community.active.com/blogs/BruceHildenbrand/2009/12/27/drugs-and-cycling--a-new-twist
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> That's pretty good money for women's bike racing.http://community.active.com/blogs/BruceHildenbrand/2009/12/27/drugs-a...
Dumbass -
That was mountain biking and she was a media star.
I do not have anything against women making a lot of money in cycling.
However, some of the numbers that you've posted in the past simply are
not close to reality.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
dave a
Besides, it was "reported to be" which is like reading it in rbr.
- dave a
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Tom Kunich
news:Db2dndNn_5sBxKDW...@sti.net...
That's sort of like saying - "Sheets are white".
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Dumbass -
Do you remember that I was a part time road manager for one of those
women's teams for a few years?
I wish you were correct, but unfortunately you are not.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1tCdnWsqMJfNx6DW...@earthlink.com...
He's not current on what women make today, and I don't post salaries and the
names of people earning those salaries, never have unless it was already
public information. I stated general numbers across the board from over the
years, which are based on factual information from reliable sources.
Whatever he knew then is old news, and I doubt he has any contacts in Europe
for what the UCI women are actually making there either. However, upwards of
300k a year is probably the most any women has made in cycling here.
The only thing CN has in its archive about Henry was in 2001, that's a long
time to be out of the loop on rider's salaries. Nothing previous before or
after 2001.
CN 2001-
Team Jane Cosmetics completed its first training camp for 2001 in San Diego
last weekend amidst rain and unseasonably cool temperatures. However, it was
the first chance that the entire squad had to ride together and was
considered a success by all.
"I was just amazed at the way the girls just clicked immediately!" said team
manager Karen Menge, obviously happy with the "chemistry" of the team.
Several of the new members knew each other from previous teams, such as
Julie Hanson and Sue Palmer-Komar who were former teammates with Saturn,
while Odessa Gunn and Erin Mirabella both rode for Timex last year.
Besides the requisite training rides and meetings, the Jane Cosmetics camp
also hosted a reception on Saturday afternoon that was attended by most of
the team's sponsors, including Jane Cosmetics President & CEO Howard Katkov,
an avid cyclist himself who has been backing the team and its parent
organization, Swami's Cycling Club, since 1996.
However, perhaps the high point of the camp was a team dinner at the
fabulous Encinitas hillside home of Swami's board member Henry Chang that
gave the riders their first chance to hone their teamwork skills - though in
the kitchen instead of on the road. "We didn't burn the place down, so I
guess that means we passed", joked Caren Spore afterwards. As they ate and
chatted, team members were treated to piano selections ranging from Chopin
to Gershwin, courtesy of Chang.
The Jane Cosmetics Cycling Team officially kicks off the 2001 season with
the McLane Pacific Classic in Merced, CA this coming weekend, followed by
the Sequoia Cycling Classic (March 10-11), the Redlands Classic (March
13-18), the Sea Otter Classic (March 22-24), and the Solano Cycling Classic
(March 29-April 1).
GoneBeforeMyTime
Tom, haven't found a good forum yet? This one is really getting thin. Its
generally just a very small crowd here who enjoy throwing mudballs at each
other relentlessly in these threads. If that's what you want to do, ok, but
I think you would enjoy some of these other forums. CN forum is decent at
times, there are others. I post something once in a while on the fly for the
lurkers, but there are much better forums out there now, and facebook. In
fact there are two or three that are not too bad, and a wealth of cycling
sources to read worldwide. I don't even see Carl post here anymore. Connelly
doesn't post here anymore either. RBR on new years eve is not the place to
be, I am heading out myself.
Tom Kunich
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1tCdnWsqMJfNx6DW...@earthlink.com...
>> "GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fa...@EuroFans.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>
>> That's sort of like saying - "Sheets are white".
>
> Tom, haven't found a good forum yet? This one is really getting thin. Its
> generally just a very small crowd here who enjoy throwing mudballs at each
> other relentlessly in these threads. If that's what you want to do, ok,
> but I think you would enjoy some of these other forums. CN forum is decent
> at times, there are others. I post something once in a while on the fly
> for the lurkers, but there are much better forums out there now, and
> facebook. In fact there are two or three that are not too bad, and a
> wealth of cycling sources to read worldwide. I don't even see Carl post
> here anymore. Connelly doesn't post here anymore either. RBR on new years
> eve is not the place to be, I am heading out myself.
I know that this group used to be really good. It was all screwed up by
those jerks on the east coast in Cyclocross and then the "thing" called
Henry became the leading light here.
Eventually the real people will stop paying any attention at all to the
horse's patooties here and start discussing bicycle racing again.
The way to deal with these jokers is to cease having anything to do with
them. Only react to the posts that actually have to do with cycle racing.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Tom Kunich" <tkun...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1tCdnWsqMJfNx6DW...@earthlink.com...
>
> > "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote in message
> >news:Db2dndNn_5sBxKDW...@sti.net...
>
> >> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> message
> >>news:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> >> Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
>
> > That's sort of like saying - "Sheets are white".
>
> He's not current on what women make today, and I don't post salaries and the
> names of people earning those salaries, never have unless it was already
> public information. I stated general numbers across the board from over the
> years, which are based on factual information from reliable sources.
> Whatever he knew then is old news, and I doubt he has any contacts in Europe
> for what the UCI women are actually making there either. However, upwards of
> 300k a year is probably the most any women has made in cycling here.
<snip>
Dumbass -
There might be a vew women that can make good money. Those are the
ones that get a lot of publicity.
The rest of them barely scrape by.
I wish I was wrong about this.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
Brought to you by Projection(TM), the official defense mechanism of
r.b.r.
-rj
ronaldo_jeremiah
Dumbass -
Add to this the claim that MG 'allegedly' made that for a year, and in
a sport that few of us would actually consider to be bike racing.
I'd bet that there isn't a single female cyclist in the world who made
six figures US in 2009. Like you said, I'd like to be wrong, but I
doubt I am.
-rj
Ryan Cousineau
<e6ab2053-2ce3-40a1...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hard to say for sure, but Missy Giove was not only active in women's DH
during the only year or two when the sport mattered (the peak of MTB
racing popularity), she was also the best in the world, working with
top-tier non-cycling sponsors (Reebok), and she had a highly marketable
image.
Let's put it this way: the three active-in-the-90s pro women I've heard
of are Giove, Alison Dunlap, and Alison Sydor. And I've met Sydor. Sort
of: she fondled my shark hat while passing me in a cyclocross race. Or
was that Wendy Simms? Whatever.
Here's a 1996 article that has probably already been posted into this
thread:
http://www.seattlepi.com/getaways/092696/bike26_top.html
It suggests "high six figures" for Giove's peak year of earnings.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Fred Fredburger
Obfuscation(TM) lost the bidding war?
WTF
1fe6bcf5-9442-449c...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan.
Dumbass-
You handed out water bottles and drove a vehicle for a Cat 4 Womens
team.....
WTF
e6ab2053-2ce3-40a1...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com,
"ronaldo_jeremiah" <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
How many sponsor ads did you se MG in during that period?
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Ryan Cousineau" <rcou...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rcousine-34D284.09191901012010@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
So where did all that cash go?
GoneBeforeMyTime
>There might be a vew women that can make good money. Those are the
>ones that get a lot of publicity.
I know several that make really good money from road racing, and they get
zero press or publicity. But what is good money? Anything under 75k is
average middle class hard working stiff yearly wages. Over 100k, not bad,
that's pretty decent for women's cycling. It's true that most aren't making
anywhere near that amount, but the opposite is also true. There are girls
who seem to be getting a fair amount of press, but they still aren't making
jack, at least not yet that I know of.
.
>The rest of them barely scrape by.
>I wish I was wrong about this.
Scraping by? What the hell is scraping by? Most domestic women work full or
part time jobs and a number of them make good money cause most are college
or university educated with degrees in all sorts of fields. Add to that,
many come from families who have money, like Marin, Palo Alto, and even
Santa Barbara. You don't see any girls bike racing who come from the slums,
cause they never would of been able to afford a bike in the first place.
They would hardly be scraping by, at least not the ones on main domestic
teams. For them, the smaller salaries are extra income to their regular
jobs, and remember the teams usually pay for everything, travel, hotels,
meals, bikes, etc. The ones scraping by are the ones at the bottom who have
to pay out of pocket to travel and race, providing their own bikes, cars,
hotels, meals, almost everything out of pocket, and perhaps some of them
might be working at Starbucks. Now for those, you could say they are
scraping by, but then again there are many men racing in this same position
as you say, scraping by.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fa...@EuroFans.com> wrote in message
Oh! It went to Medical bills!
"She's broken 33 bones and numerous teeth in her short career, including
four compound fractures of her pelvis, a broken hip and a smashed
collarbone."
Brad Anders
I think this was cited previously:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/sports/cycling/16cycling.html
Quote from Bob Stapleton:
"He estimated that the salaries for members of the women’s team ranged
from “a jersey and a bike” to about $100,000 a year. Men’s salaries
are from $45,000 to more than $2.5 million."
Brooke Miller:
"She said the salary she draws from cycling was so low it was
basically, “You eat what you kill.”"
Interview with Pat McQuaid:
http://www.womenscycling.net/2006/Interviews/PatMcQuaid.htm
"There are riders in professional teams who are not paid, they are
simply given kit and loaned a bike, in other teams, the situation is a
little better and in others, riders are paid a salary which they can
live on. None of the riders though, earn anything like the salaries
earned by those in a similar position in the men’s peleton."
"The best we can strive and hope for in both the men’s and the women’s
sport, is that there is, at least a small salary or at minimum, good
contracts and conditions of employment."
There are many more references out there. As you say, Giove's salary
was so high because of her wide range of sponsorships, the popularity
of her event, and her personality and performances. For your typical
working rider on a small women's pro team, the situation is radically
different. Even among decent riders pay levels are typically quite low
and vary widely across teams.
Brad Anders
GoneBeforeMyTime
"WTF" <rbr...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:C7637B07.72CDD%rbr...@dslextreme.com...
So he wasn't a manager?
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Brad Anders" <pban...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1880d8b7-8894-487e...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
According to this article about the men. it's more like 26 in Euros or 37 in
dollars instead of 45 with three zeros, but I don't argue the men, you guys
should know those numbers.
http://www.ciclismoespresso.com/
"So, who are the guys getting more money among pro cyclists?
As reported by this article, the minimun wave for a Pro Tour cyclist is
around 26.700 euro while an expert gregario would get at least 33.000 euro.
http://www.suipedali.it/articolo/quanto-guadagna-un-ciclista-professionista/1761/
But let's get at the point, who are the best paid ones?
LA is still the best, especially thanks to his own sponsors, while Contador
is the strongest man for the Tour.
The first italian is Pozzato althought actually he didnt win any World
Championships or big Classic in the past season."
Lance Armstrong 11 milioni circa
Alberto Contador 11 milioni circa
Alejandro Valverde 2,3 milioni
Philippe Gilbert 2 milioni
Cadel Evans 1.7 milioni
Filippo Pozzato 1 milione
-----------------------------
On the women, let's just say even this year, I have heard, and its not
uncommon that some of the women, and I know which ones were offered 30k to
ride for our domestic teams, and I am not even talking about UCI teams
either, and not the only one who has a UCI license here, if that surprises
you. UCI teams have the highest paid riders cause they are world class. Our
races generally have better prize money, but salaries on UCI pro teams are
better for those at the top. However, its quite true about what top women
made in the past. Missy, Sydor, Dunlap, Van Moorsel all made hundreds of
thousands of dollars, but it was not uncommon for many riders to make 50-75k
a year. Many made 15-30k and still do today. However many only get paid 10k
or less, or just a few thousand, but the idea that only a few make the big
money at the top and rest get nothing and scrape by is nonsense. The actual
percentages of who got what is a much different story, and many work regular
jobs making more money then they ever will in bike racing.
Donald Munro
>> Brought to you by Projection(TM), the official defense mechanism of
>> r.b.r.
>>
> Obfuscation(TM) lost the bidding war?
When it comes to PerlBots(TM) obfustication always wins.
Donald Munro
> Oh! It went to Medical bills!
>
> "She's broken 33 bones and numerous teeth in her short career, including
> four compound fractures of her pelvis, a broken hip and a smashed
> collarbone."
If she was Canadian it wouldn't have cost a penny (or dime or whatever
the Canadian currency equivalent is).
Amit Ghosh
> Scraping by? What the hell is scraping by? Most domestic women work full or
> part time jobs and a number of them make good money cause most are college
> or university educated with degrees in all sorts of fields. Add to that,
> many come from families who have money, like Marin, Palo Alto, and even
> Santa Barbara. You don't see any girls bike racing who come from the slums,
> cause they never would of been able to afford a bike in the first place.
dumbass,
if you're saying that the racing is a personal development exercise
for upper and upper middle class women rather than a realistic source
of income, i agree.
if someone made a lot of wealth in a previous career or has the
financial backing of someone elsei fully support their choice to
pursue some personal activity.
> The ones scraping by are the ones at the bottom who have
> to pay out of pocket to travel and race, providing their own bikes, cars,
> hotels, meals, almost everything out of pocket, and perhaps some of them
> might be working at Starbucks. Now for those, you could say they are
> scraping by, but then again there are many men racing in this same position
> as you say, scraping by.
i agree there as well. in fact there is more men in the scraping by
position because some of them will be holding out for one of the few
decent paying spots in the sport.
but don't be a kool-aid drinker, there is no reason someone should get
paid to race a bicycle. i think it is even immoral to give developing
riders the impression that this is potentially a way to make a living.
the six-digit protour riders represent a tiny tiny fraction of all
bike racers.
Scott
No, I'm pretty sure even Canadians pay for the health care they get.
They just pay it to a US-based doctor.
Scott
>
> but don't be a kool-aid drinker, there is no reason someone should get
> paid to race a bicycle.
Why not? The promoters of the bigger events are bringing in money
from sponsors to host their events, and someone has to contest those
events or else the promoters don't have a product to sell. Why
shouldn't the riders get paid?
Amit Ghosh
dumbass,
if someone can get paid - that is great, but that is not the same as
insisting people should get paid for bike riding.
WTF
"GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fa...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
As I wrote above.......
What is you definition of a "part time road manager"?
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Amit Ghosh" <amit....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:feac6d49-81e8-43b5...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Hung over from last night Punch, but...
We can save drinking from the Olympic Punch Bowl for another thread and
there are a lot of women who are drinking from the Olympic Punch bowl, I
hear it all the time. But yeah, from these figures I saw the other day, very
few men are making millions at the very top, the creme. So right, most men
don't make jack either, so it's skewed to hear so often women's cycling
doesn't pay anything cause it takes the heat off the men making them look
like the bread winners all the time, and they get the lion's share of the
press, TV, endorsements, etc, but it's a very small handful of stars in the
sport getting the really big money, and lots of men have tried every dirty
trick in the book to get at those massive sums of cash available to the top
players. From the article I read, average pros are making around 37k a year,
and that's less then most middle class stiffs make, or around the bottom of
middle class earnings, not a very good paying job.
In that sense, I think high payouts is unhealthy for the sport and a bad
image or incentive to pursue bike racing to make a living. Many of them
might just as well play the lottery. If they do it because its in their
blood, they love it, its in the genes and they are very good at it like Chad
Gerlach then I say more power to you but do it for those reasons and not the
dollar signs. Oddly enough Chad saw the sport for what it was, probably
because he had plenty of time to reflect on it when he was spending all
those long cold nights sleeping in the streets instead of chasing that big
money.
Many of the record breakers in Baseball who get paid millions are steroid
users, so big money always seems to ruin sports. Instead, I would propose
that top professional riders get paid much less, and capped eventually
across the board. Since the definition of a professional is someone who get
paid, they have to be paid. In the earlier times, being a professional meant
someone who was paid to race, and today the definition of a professional pro
women road racer is some that races on a pro UCI team and earns a salary. So
rather then making their salary a dollar a year since I don't think that
will work, I would propose that women pros get paid a decent salary to race,
but not outrageous amounts of cash, which invites cheaters.
Make the salaries even across the board for all top women, and those in the
middle, less money based on their pro status, ranking or level, and those at
the bottom much less, maybe nothing much except some help like they get now
as amateurs with talent. That might cultivate interest more from those who
love to race as a lifestyle instead of those chasing the dollar signs or the
elusion of market value. Still perhaps that would invite cheaters, but maybe
to a less extent since massive amounts of cash would not be on the line.
However women don't have to worry about that anyway, cause it natural to
assume they will always be the warm up act to the pro men and they have
never been offered millions to race. There is very little incentive for
women to cheat now the way things are, but if they are going to be paid
professionals, at least pay them a reasonable wage. I won't offer this idea
for the men, you guys can figure that one out, but yes, the idea that
cycling is a way to make a living is like chasing the rainbow to get the pot
of gold, which is a ever changing elusive goalpost.
If you don't think they should be paid at all, then they must race as
amatuers, which means they don't get paid, like the Roller Derby girls.
Remember the Roller Derby girls used to be paid professionals. In that case,
they could spend both the prize money and the money that goes for salaries
on TV instead. Women could really use TV to promote their side of the sport
now, and could then build their own market value based on that, or seek fame
and fortune elsewhere.
Maybe I'm not think clearly though, its the punch bowl and the rum!
http://www.ciclismoespresso.com/
marco
> Add to that, many come from families who have money, like Marin, Palo
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Perhaps I'm blanking on this, but I can't recall a single top-level woman
racer having come from Santa Barbara in the last 20+ years. And don't say
Lynn Brontzman/Gaggioli because she wasn't really from here. Several really
good women riders have made SB their temporary or permanent home, including
Kim Anderson right now, but they all came from some place else. Is there
somebody specifically you're thinking of actually _from_ Santa Barbara?
A. Dumas
> On Dec 31 2009, 6:01 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." wrote:
>> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:
>>> That's pretty good money for women's bike racing.
>>
>>
>> I do not have anything against women making a lot of money in cycling.
>> However, some of the numbers that you've posted in the past simply are
>> not close to reality.
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/sports/cycling/16cycling.html
>
> Quote from Bob Stapleton:
>
> from �a jersey and a bike� to about $100,000 a year. Men�s salaries
> are from $45,000 to more than $2.5 million."
>
> Brooke Miller:
>
> "She said the salary she draws from cycling was so low it was
>
> Interview with Pat McQuaid:
>
> http://www.womenscycling.net/2006/Interviews/PatMcQuaid.htm
>
> "There are riders in professional teams who are not paid, they are
> simply given kit and loaned a bike, in other teams, the situation is a
> little better and in others, riders are paid a salary which they can
> live on. None of the riders though, earn anything like the salaries
>
> "The best we can strive and hope for in both the men�s and the women�s
> sport, is that there is, at least a small salary or at minimum, good
> contracts and conditions of employment."
>
> There are many more references out there. As you say, Giove's salary
> was so high because of her wide range of sponsorships, the popularity
> of her event, and her personality and performances. For your typical
> working rider on a small women's pro team, the situation is radically
> different. Even among decent riders pay levels are typically quite low
> and vary widely across teams.
One of the biggest stars in women's cycling, Emma Johansson:
"I�m not earning money as a cyclist. It�s nothing I can put in a bank
account and live off for the rest of my life! The day I stop cycling,
I�m going to have to go to work."
ronaldo_jeremiah
> Op 01-01-10 20:20, Brad Anders wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 31 2009, 6:01 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." wrote:
> >> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:
> >>> That's pretty good money for women's bike racing.
>
> >> That was mountain biking and she was a media star.
>
> >> I do not have anything against women making a lot of money in cycling.
> >> However, some of the numbers that you've posted in the past simply are
> >> not close to reality.
>
> > I think this was cited previously:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/sports/cycling/16cycling.html
>
> > Quote from Bob Stapleton:
>
> > are from $45,000 to more than $2.5 million."
>
> > Brooke Miller:
>
> > "She said the salary she draws from cycling was so low it was
>
>
> >http://www.womenscycling.net/2006/Interviews/PatMcQuaid.htm
>
> > "There are riders in professional teams who are not paid, they are
> > simply given kit and loaned a bike, in other teams, the situation is a
> > little better and in others, riders are paid a salary which they can
> > live on. None of the riders though, earn anything like the salaries
>
> > sport, is that there is, at least a small salary or at minimum, good
> > contracts and conditions of employment."
>
> > There are many more references out there. As you say, Giove's salary
> > was so high because of her wide range of sponsorships, the popularity
> > of her event, and her personality and performances. For your typical
> > working rider on a small women's pro team, the situation is radically
> > different. Even among decent riders pay levels are typically quite low
> > and vary widely across teams.
>
> One of the biggest stars in women's cycling, Emma Johansson:
>
> account and live off for the rest of my life! The day I stop cycling,
>
> Source:http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=7770
And she's hot, which is bankable. You can bet the less-hot chicks are
making even less.
-rj
Fred Fredburger
Are we discussing what pro teams pay woman cyclists or is this about how
much a top notch female cyclist could conceivably make in a year? They
aren't the same thing.
Missy Giove might well have earned in the high six figures the same year
her team paid her $75K. There's no contradiction.
Ryan Cousineau
"GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fa...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcou...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rcousine-34D284.09191901012010@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
[Missy Giove]
> > Here's a 1996 article that has probably already been posted into this
> > thread:
> >
> > http://www.seattlepi.com/getaways/092696/bike26_top.html
> >
> > It suggests "high six figures" for Giove's peak year of earnings.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau
>
> So where did all that cash go?
The mechanisms for blowing an early (and not that substantial) windfall
of earnings are pretty well known. Basically, you get used to living on
300k a year, and then after 3-6 years the money goes away.
Even a prudent planner might want to live on, oh, 50k/year, which is
hardly immodest, and if you assume a 200k house, well, that's maybe the
house plus two years of income from one good year, and another six-odd
years from every subsequent 300k year.
And here we are, about a decade from her career peak, eh?
The other part of the equation is similarly well-known: athlete spends
the post-secondary years riding a bike instead of learning a trade.
Stops riding bike? Nothing they can do.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"marco" <marco_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z8u%m.274$Sh7...@newsfe25.iad...
Sure, plenty.
UCSB is actually in Goleta, and I am sure a few cat 1-2 women cyclists have
come out of there over the years, although I can't name any at the moment
from UCSB. I have a friend who lives in Goleta and I can ask him, he would
know cause he always working out over there, and seen a lot of riders all
over the place for the last 30 years. He does both MB and road racing, plus
single and double centuries.
Riders from Santa Barbara...
Meredith Mills and Jennifer Gabet are both Cat 1-2, from Santa Barbara,
Gabet is from Goleta. Angela Rebol is from Santa Barbara, how about Michelle
La Pierre or Amanda McCoy, all from Santa Barbara. Amy Nett, Lila Ferguson
and Angela Bell are all pro cyclists from Santa Barbara.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "WTF" <rbr...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
>
> news:C7637B07.72CDD%rbr...@dslextreme.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/31/09 6:26 PM, in article
> > "Kurgan.
> > presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Dec 31, 6:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
> >>> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >>> messagenews:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com.
> >>> ..
> >>> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
>
> >> Dumbass -
>
> >> Do you remember that I was a part time road manager for one of those
> >> women's teams for a few years?
>
> >> I wish you were correct, but unfortunately you are not.
>
> >> thanks,
>
> >> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> > Dumbass-
>
> > You handed out water bottles and drove a vehicle for a Cat 4 Womens
> > team.....
>
> So he wasn't a manager?
Dumbass -
Road manager. I was never in charge of a team. Wouldn't want to be.
Paperwork, budget, sponsors, all that busywork. I handled the
logicistal racing end of stuff here in the Western US and did some
stuff back east too, Tour of Toona and Tour of Ohio and the like.
The best result the team ever got was with Talgo when Sue Palmer-
Kolmar won the women's RR at Sea Otter, so it wasn't exactly Cat 4
stuff like Fat Steve claims. Usually we'd have someone in the top 10
of the harder stage races - half the women were good climbers.
BTW, if the women are making so much money now, like you claim, then
why is it that races like 'Toona, Tour of Idaho (Ore Ida), Le Grande
Boucle Feminin existed then, but no longer exist today? Is it because
there's tons more money in the sport today? That's why they went away?
Ya, right.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> On 1/1/10 11:22 AM, in article ofudnYGypOf71qPWnZ2dnUVZ_gidn...@sti.net,
>
>
>
>
>
> "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> > "WTF" <rbr...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> >news:C7637B07.72CDD%rbr...@dslextreme.com...
> >> On 12/31/09 6:26 PM, in article
> >> "Kurgan.
> >> presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Dec 31, 6:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
> >>>> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >>>> messagenews:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.co
> >>>> m.
> >>>> ..
> >>>> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
>
> >>> Dumbass -
>
> >>> Do you remember that I was a part time road manager for one of those
> >>> women's teams for a few years?
>
> >>> I wish you were correct, but unfortunately you are not.
>
> >>> thanks,
>
> >>> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> >> Dumbass-
>
> >> You handed out water bottles and drove a vehicle for a Cat 4 Womens
> >> team.....
>
> > So he wasn't a manager?
>
> " Do you remember that I was a part time road manager for one of those
> women's teams for a few years?"
>
> As I wrote above.......
> What is you definition of a "part time road manager"?
Dear Fat Steve -
Why do you always pretend to have knowledge about situations in which
you have no firsthand information?
Karen Menge ran the Jane's team, but she didn't go out to the races
unless they were local. On the spring part of the season I'd handle
the stuff out on the road. It was usually me and two other people who
would double as soigneur/mechanic. In the late summers, I'd go back
east and handle some of the races there too. For Talgo, I just did
West Coast.
The riders need support in those stage races. For the crit part of the
season they can take care of themselves.
I'm quite positive that none of the women in North America were making
$300k at that time, not even Genvieve Jeanson who had an entire team
built around her. Very few of the teams even had yearly budgets for
the entire team that would reach that level. Probably only three that
I can think of.
Those are just generalities. It's not like I saw the contracts or
anything, but there was plenty of time to shoot the shit in the feed
zones and hear what was going on.
marco
>>> Add to that, many come from families who have money, like Marin, Palo
>>> Alto, and even Santa Barbara....
> marco wrote:
>> Perhaps I'm blanking on this, but I can't recall a single top-level woman
>> racer having come from Santa Barbara in the last 20+ years. And don't say
>> Lynn Brontzman/Gaggioli because she wasn't really from here. Several
>> really good women riders have made SB their temporary or permanent home,
>> including Kim Anderson right now, but they all came from some place else.
>> Is there somebody specifically you're thinking of actually _from_ Santa
>> Barbara?
GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
> Sure, plenty.
>
> UCSB is actually in Goleta, and I am sure a few cat 1-2 women cyclists
> have come out of there over the years, although I can't name any at the
> moment from UCSB. I have a friend who lives in Goleta and I can ask him,
> he would know cause he always working out over there, and seen a lot of
> riders all over the place for the last 30 years. He does both MB and road
> racing, plus single and double centuries.
>
> Riders from Santa Barbara...
> Meredith Mills and Jennifer Gabet are both Cat 1-2, from Santa Barbara,
> Gabet is from Goleta. Angela Rebol is from Santa Barbara, how about
> Michelle La Pierre or Amanda McCoy, all from Santa Barbara. Amy Nett, Lila
> Ferguson and Angela Bell are all pro cyclists from Santa Barbara.
Bruce,
I know or knew most of the women you mentioned above. They would be the
first to tell you they are neither pro nor competitive at a national level.
To be sure, they are all good people, very nice ladies, and are/were decent
local racers, but none of them ever aspired to be more than recreational
bike racers. Anyway, I'm curious how you came up with those names. Do you
know any of them? I'm not being antagonistic, just curious to know the
places that rbr and my real world cross paths. Who is your friend who lives
in Goleta?
Mark
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53e9fad5-a0b9-46d2...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 1, 11:22 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
> "WTF" <rbr...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
>
> news:C7637B07.72CDD%rbr...@dslextreme.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12/31/09 6:26 PM, in article
> > 1fe6bcf5-9442-449c-a346-4feb00b2d...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com,
> > "Kurgan.
> > presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Dec 31, 6:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
> >>> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >>> messagenews:28759a68-13eb-4cb5...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com.
> >>> ..
> >>> On Dec 31, 1:10 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Bullshit, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
>
> >> Dumbass -
>
> >> Do you remember that I was a part time road manager for one of those
> >> women's teams for a few years?
>
> >> I wish you were correct, but unfortunately you are not.
>
> >> thanks,
>
> >> Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> > Dumbass-
>
> > You handed out water bottles and drove a vehicle for a Cat 4 Womens
> > team.....
>
> So he wasn't a manager?
>BTW, if the women are making so much money now, like you claim, then
>why is it that races like 'Toona, Tour of Idaho (Ore Ida), Le Grande
>Boucle Feminin existed then, but no longer exist today? Is it because
>there's tons more money in the sport today? That's why they went away?
I don't claim that only women at the top make good money, and the rest make
nothing. Even a number of riders in the middle made good money at times,
more then you think. Grande Boucle was the victim by proxy of feuds between
the UCI and the Tour. The Grande Boucle, in fact both French women riders
and teams have really suffered in France and Pierre Boue pulled the plug,
especially since the top two press photographers skipped it in favor of
races in Italy like Giro De Feminin and Toscana. It was getting no press,
and shrunk to only 3 stages, previously 17 stages in 2003. Also UCI wouldn't
endorse it, probably fallout from the Tour problems according to Boue, all
French related. In fact, Boue is so angry over the UCI and all the problems
over the years that he is going to obtain a lawyer just to write a tell all
book.
Women's Challenge suffered from poor TV coverage, a problem that still
exists today. Prize money was certainly awesome in some years, more then any
race on record for women. Problem was also that race had courses in the
remote areas away from big cities where fans are. Many cities are always
part of TOC courses, probably a fatal mistake for Idaho race. Who's going to
travel way out there to see the race? Foothills race is also way out there
in the foothills and it gets zero fans, but its counterpart does very well
in the city crit. Without stellar TV coverage, Women's Challenge wasn't seem
by many. I think there was like 50 minutes total of TV for all the stages.
Toona should be back to 7 stages, and prize money is said to be about 40k
for the women, but this is tentative as of yet, not final yet that I know
of. This could change. Its been moved to August as well, as it has a bad
time slot in July. However, if you are asking if there are a shortage of
races worldwide, not really. There is still a ton of UCI women's races on
the calendar, and the World Cup is as strong as ever, same. The NRC calendar
has shrunk some, but California has added more races, Redlands is still a
strong draw. Prize money in US is better then Europe generally, but their
UCI top women make more then domestic women. This year, I know of several
very reasonable offers to domestic women to sign contracts on various teams.
Obviously the economy has hurt cycling sponsors getting onboard, but new
ones will come, always do.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:53e9fad5-a0b9-46d2...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Dumbass -
OK, you mention poor TV coverage and lack of publicity.
If the TV coverage and publicity isn't there, how is it that there's
tons more money in the sport than there was 8 years ago?
The answer is: there isn't.
Sponsors put the $$$ out there based upon the amount of publicity
value in return. If the media coverage isn't there, the teams aren't
going to be able to negotiate more money.
WTF
beaf20c5-29b7-4282...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan.
presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Boo hoo! You must be real hurt.....
You did not do anything that any other cyclist could not have done.
You just had a schedule to go when you please and a trust fund to replace a
job..
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dearest Fat Steve -
When you're claiming that it was a Cat 4 team, you're insulting them,
not me.
GoneBeforeMyTime
Wait a minute, that doesn't seem to wash. According to CN, and especially
other sources I have, those women were pro 1-2 road racers, not rec riders.
However according to CN the NRC rankings at one point in 2001 listed these
top world class riders, Mills from Santa Barbara was 38 on the NRC rankings.
1 Lyne Bessette Saturn (Canada)
2 Tina Mayolo-Pic autotrader.com (Buford, Ga.)
3 Ina Teutenberg Saturn (Germany)
4 Joanne Kiesanowski Proctor & Gamble (New Zealand)
5 Nicole Freedman Credit Suisse (Stanford, Calif.)
6 Petra Rossner Saturn (Germany)
7 Laura Charmeda Michella Fanini
38 Meridith Mills Echelon Santa Cruz (Santa Barbara, Calif.)
In 2001, Jeanson won Another Dam race in Arizona, Joanne Kiesanowski was
2nd. Jennifer Gabet of Goleta was 13th. I believe its Cat's Hill in 2001 she
took 12th, Meredith Miller our national champion took 7th. I wouldn't
exactly call Gabet a rec rider, hey? Again in 2002, Gabet took 6th in
Arizona race which was won by Laura Van Gilder who has over 350 national
victories.
In 2005, Angela Rebol is listed as taking 8th on the final GC in the Tour of
Murrieta, note pro women here as well. Note Michelle La Pierre was 7th.
Elite women
1 Dotsie Cowden
2 Laura Yoisten
3 Carol Lynn Neal
4 Lana Atchley
5 Julia Whiteside
6 Melinda Johnson
7 Michelle LaPierre
8 Angela Rebol
2004 Mothball crit was won by Gagg, Angela took 16th, and I can tell you
there were a number of big names in that race, pros. In the Tour of Murrieta
2005, Anglea took 8th on the final GC. Dot Cow won that race and again I can
tell you a lot of big names were in that race, even Kim Anderson finished
well down from your so called rec rider Angela Rebol.
In 1998, at the Collegiate Road Cycling Championship Greenville South
Carolina, Amy Nett of Santa Barbara took 4th in the road race. Christine
Thorburn was 10th. In the crit she was 8th just behind Tiffany Pezzulo who
still races today. Thorburn again was 9th. In the final classment, she was
like 8th, ahead of Thorburn by two places.
Lila Ferguson raced at least from 1998 to 2002 or later. She often took 2nd
or 3rd behind Megan Long, a name you should know.
Angela Bell also raced a number of years and finished 19th on the final GC
in the 2005 Tour of Murrieta in another year. Kim Anderson finished just
ahead. She finished in the top five often in masters races for several
years.
Elite women
1 Dotsie Cowden
2 Laura Yoisten
3 Carol Lynn Neal
18 Kimberly Anderson
19 Angela Bell
Out of all the girls I mentioned, only two were cat 4, but not rec riders.
While these facts are not perfect on the fly, good enough for rbr, but you
said they were all rec riders, and that's simply not true.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fa...@EuroFans.com> wrote in message
news:N7-dncwvE_jYQqPW...@sti.net...
Actually I believe the two cat 4 riders were ones I didn't even mention in
these stats. I believe all these girls with stats are cat 1-2.
WTF
7b76b744-aef8-4476...@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan.
presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Nice way to agree with my last post...
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Fat Steve -
You're totally right. I don't know jack shit about bike racing.
GoneBeforeMyTime
<snip>
>If the TV coverage and publicity isn't there, how is it that there's
>tons more money in the sport than there was 8 years ago?
Where did that come from? Tons more money?, cause I never said that, but as
bad as things might be, I have heard some very reasonable offers for
contracts. California has had modest benefits too courtesy proxy of TOC both
in TV and fanbase here in the valley. Domestic teams are thin, but at least
one has a UCI license this year, better then last year.
marco
>>>>> Add to that, many come from families who have money, like Marin, Palo
>>>>> Alto, and even Santa Barbara....
>>> marco wrote:
>>>> Perhaps I'm blanking on this, but I can't recall a single top-level
>>>> woman racer having come from Santa Barbara in the last 20+ years. And
>>>> don't say Lynn Brontzman/Gaggioli because she wasn't really from here.
>>>> Several really good women riders have made SB their temporary or
>>>> permanent home, including Kim Anderson right now, but they all came
>>>> from some place else. Is there somebody specifically you're thinking of
>>>> actually _from_ Santa Barbara?
>> GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>>> Sure, plenty.
>>>
>>> UCSB is actually in Goleta, and I am sure a few cat 1-2 women cyclists
>>> have come out of there over the years, although I can't name any at the
>>> moment from UCSB. I have a friend who lives in Goleta and I can ask him,
>>> he would know cause he always working out over there, and seen a lot of
>>> riders all over the place for the last 30 years. He does both MB and
>>> road racing, plus single and double centuries.
>>>
>>> Riders from Santa Barbara...
>>> Meredith Mills and Jennifer Gabet are both Cat 1-2, from Santa Barbara,
>>> Gabet is from Goleta. Angela Rebol is from Santa Barbara, how about
>>> Michelle La Pierre or Amanda McCoy, all from Santa Barbara. Amy Nett,
>>> Lila Ferguson and Angela Bell are all pro cyclists from Santa Barbara.
marco wrote:
>> Bruce,
>> I know or knew most of the women you mentioned above. They would be the
>> first to tell you they are neither pro nor competitive at a national
>> level. To be sure, they are all good people, very nice ladies, and
>> are/were decent local racers, but none of them ever aspired to be more
>> than recreational bike racers. Anyway, I'm curious how you came up with
>> those names. Do you know any of them? I'm not being antagonistic, just
>> curious to know the places that rbr and my real world cross paths. Who is
>> your friend who lives in Goleta?
Bruce,
I'm sorry, but you are wrong in this matter. First of all, my words were
"recreational racer" which I define as anybody who basically races locally
or regionally, as opposed to following the national circuit, and for whom
bike racing is a hobby. None of the women you mentioned were, or are, more
than local or regional level riders. You can look up results all night if
you want, but I know these ladies and I know what I'm talking about. Jenny
and Meredith were cat 2 women racers who competed for a couple years mostly
in California, but that is still recreational racing. Meredith's husband may
still lurk on rbr and has posted here in the past. Please speak up Eric if
you are reading this. I imagine you are having a good laugh. Angie Bell was
over 50 years old in that result you listed above, and placing one spot in
back of Kim Anderson in a pre-season po-dunk race does not make Angie a pro.
Lila Ferguson was a junior, and as far as I recall, never raced in serious
women's races. Angela Rebol was never higher than a cat 3 rider. Of the
names you mentioned, only Michelle still races and she's in her mid 40's and
is a cat 3.
Again, I like all these ladies a lot, but they are not pro bike racers.
Mark
ps. Back on topic, how about you give your thoughts about the salaries of
the Columbia/High Road ladies. And also, who is your friend in Goleta who
races?
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:52fe0ff7-ef17-4888...@s3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
Dumbass -
You said that my knowledge was obsolete.
I don't see how things have changed. If anything, things on the
women's side look to be a bit worse since I was involved, with the
demise of those big races.
GoneBeforeMyTime
> I'm sorry, but you are wrong in this matter. First of all, my words were
> "recreational racer" which I define as anybody who basically races locally
> or regionally, as opposed to following the national circuit, and for whom
> bike racing is a hobby. None of the women you mentioned were, or are, more
> than local or regional level riders. You can look up results all night if
> you want, but I know these ladies and I know what I'm talking about. Jenny
> and Meredith were cat 2 women racers who competed for a couple years
> mostly in California, but that is still recreational racing. Meredith's
> husband may still lurk on rbr and has posted here in the past. Please
> speak up Eric if you are reading this. I imagine you are having a good
> laugh. Angie Bell was over 50 years old in that result you listed above,
> and placing one spot in back of Kim Anderson in a pre-season po-dunk race
> does not make Angie a pro. Lila Ferguson was a junior, and as far as I
> recall, never raced in serious women's races. Angela Rebol was never
> higher than a cat 3 rider. Of the names you mentioned, only Michelle still
> races and she's in her mid 40's and is a cat 3.
>
> Again, I like all these ladies a lot, but they are not pro bike racers.
>
> Mark
> ps. Back on topic, how about you give your thoughts about the salaries of
> the Columbia/High Road ladies. And also, who is your friend in Goleta who
> races?
They raced in some races that are not local or regional, but out of state,
look at the stats. My point is that contrary to what you said, cat 1-2
riders did in fact race from Santa Barbara in many years, both in state and
out of state, the stats prove it. There is no denying they raced and placed
well against some of the top women in the sport. The fact that these girls
are not superstars is quite clear, but nevertheless they placed well at
times against a very select group of pro women. I am just saying generally
speaking though that there has been cat 1-2 riders from SB and Goleta. That
was just a quick check, I bet with a little research there would be more.
However, if Anderson and Gagg lived in Santa Barbara at any time, that
should qualify them as being from SB if they established residence. UCSB and
Goleta should count then.
My friend works for Jordano, his wife works as software debugger at QAD I
think it is, something like that. He doesn't race, but he might know a few
things. His thing is single and double centuries. He lived there all his
life, so he might know a few things.
I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing you
are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I guessing
Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson salary
either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k, even more in
some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a pity and a
shock.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing you
> are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I guessing
> Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson salary
> either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k, even more in
> some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a pity and a
> shock.
Dumbass -
OK. So Arndt makes $50-75k/year.
She's good. She gets results. She gets publicity.
Most other female North American get a tiny fraction of the amount of
publicity Arndt receives. Their salaries will be commensurately lower.
I wish I was wrong, but that's reality.
GoneBeforeMyTime
>Dumbass -
I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete. I still know how to run old DOS
machines, hacking memory ranges in the config file to squeeze every last
drop out of 640k. But there is no need, its outdated knowledge, but not
obsolete, since DOS still has clubs with hacks that still fiddle with that
stuff.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
>
> I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
> Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete.
Dumbass -
If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just
reality.
Donald Munro
>> If she was Canadian it wouldn't have cost a penny (or dime or whatever
>> the Canadian currency equivalent is).
Scott wrote:
> No, I'm pretty sure even Canadians pay for the health care they get.
> They just pay it to a US-based doctor.
Dumbass,
I think we will have to continue responding to each others trolls since
no one on rbr seems to appreciate our trolling talents. Either that or
we should try trolling alt.mensa or join Mr Vidmar in the chess groups
and try trolling them.
Brad Anders
wrote:
Wow. She's very pretty. If she were a pro tennis player, she'd be
making over $1M on endorsements, regardless of her performance.
Brad Anders
WTF
d93f8c73-e3a7-47ea...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan.
presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Nice the way you snipped out the second sentence.....
You did not do anything that any other cyclist could not have done.
A. Dumas
relevant, you fat fuck.
GoneBeforeMyTime
On Jan 2, 12:30 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
>
> I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
> Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete.
>If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just
reality.
You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have it.
GoneBeforeMyTime
On Jan 1, 11:32 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing
> you
> are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I guessing
> Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson salary
> either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k, even more
> in
> some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a pity and a
> shock.
>OK. So Arndt makes $50-75k/year.
Snip...
I'm in an A and B conversation here, thanks.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"GoneBeforeMyTime" <Fa...@EuroFans.com> wrote in message
I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro
men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably
making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their
salaries from bike racing. How fucked up it that? I'd say the men are worse
off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group. There's no
need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or
Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women get
paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you add
in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even
getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much better
deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working
regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay very
well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance and
company.
Amit Ghosh
>
> I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro
> men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably
> making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their
> salaries from bike racing.
dumbass,
you're comparing apples to oranges.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Amit Ghosh" <amit....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bca3ea82-f32f-484b...@t42g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
dumbass,
Yeah, well. But I didn't add prize money either. If you add in the men's
prize money, for some its getting into a better living for men, maybe
upwards of 50k with prize money. There is another tier though. Some men make
70 to 100k. Some make 250k, but I don't know who they are. I admit you guys
should know men's salaries inside out. However the point is, most pro men
don't make a very good living racing full time, so the women don't either,
ok.
William Asher
True, but this thread is almost as good as the "riding off of rollers"
thread in terms of the cognitive dissonance.
--
Bill Asher
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:10522b27-d22d-4d9e...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 1, 11:32 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing
> > you
> > are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I guessing
> > Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson salary
> > either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k, even more
> > in
> > some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a pity and a
> > shock.
> >OK. So Arndt makes $50-75k/year.
>
> Snip...
>
> I'm in an A and B conversation here, thanks.
How long before you splinter into a bunch of alters and this thread
consists entirely of you talking to yourself?
-rj
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8dGdnccHV6xpF6LW...@sti.net...
>
>
>
> > "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > message
> >news:a588c400-6283-4d2d...@s3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jan 2, 12:30 am, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> >> I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
> >> Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete.
>
> >>If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just
> > reality.
>
> > You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have
> > it.
>
> I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro
> men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably
> making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their
> salaries from bike racing. How fucked up it that?
You're right. Your logic is way fucked up.
-rj
P.S. The modal salary that pro men get per year is probably 0k, and
definitely not more than 12k.
Sandy
puis a déclaré...:
Wait a second! Are we supposed to be weeping because girls who are
playing at a game in the outdoors are earnung $75K for part of a year?
It's not as though they (or in parallel, male racers) spend a life
making this planet happier and safer.
Or are you saying that factory workers earning half that or less are
really the lowest form of life? If so, direct this to an Op-Ed page and
get some proletarian reactions.
Or are you in the income-distribution mode? If advertisers benefit, so
should the peons in their employ? Fine, same direction to Op-Ed.
Capitalism has been the rage for a while, so your contribution will be
invaluable.
If riding a bike is so very awful, they can retrain in useful careers,
or stop bubbling up with covetousness, for all the rest care.
Envy is a sin except her, it appears.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
--
Darwinism, born in ideological struggle, has never escaped from an
intimate reciprocal relationship with worldviews exported from and
imported into the science. No one challenges the claim that evolutionary
theory has had a wide effect on social theory. It is a cliché of
cultural history that the explanation of evolution by natural selection
served as an ideological justification for laissez-faire capitalism and
the colonial domination of the lesser breeds without the law.
- Richard Lewontin
Sandy
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
--
Une silhouette profilée mauve fluo dévale
à soixante-dix à l'heure : c'est du vélo.
Deux lycéennes côte à côte traversent
un pont à Bruges : c'est de la bicyclette.
-Delerm, P.
Sandy
Bob Schwartz
Dumbass,
No, no, no. For cognitive dissonance you have to look at a guy like
Fennelli, who is in total denial about the hordes of top level
women racers that live near him. His denial is so complete that he
doesn't even recognize 38th on NRC as a place to find top level women
racers.
Sheesh.
Bob Schwartz
William Asher
news:odadnWzdePfQMqLW...@giganews.com:
> No, no, no. For cognitive dissonance you have to look at a guy like
> Fennelli, who is in total denial about the hordes of top level
> women racers that live near him. His denial is so complete that he
> doesn't even recognize 38th on NRC as a place to find top level women
> racers.
Last time I looked at a guy like Fennelli, Kunich called me a homo, so
I'm not falling for that trick. Again.
--
Bill Asher
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Sandy" <leu...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:4b3fa275$0$13095$426a...@news.free.fr...
On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien r�fl�chi et puis a d�clar�...:
That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway.
Bob Schwartz
Retard,
It only looks that way because you use Outlook Express.
Bob Schwartz
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Bob Schwartz" <bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
news:odadnWzdePfQMqLW...@giganews.com...
Dipshit,
I listed a few who were cat 1,2,3,4. So big fucking deal, where's there
smoke there's fire. I bet there have been several pro riders that came out
of UCSB and Goleta, SB over the past few decades. I never said they were
superstars, but they placed well in some races against some well known names
at that time. NRC was just a reference to the fact some racers particapaded
in NRC events, which means they were more then just rec riders. He didn't
clarify what his thoughts were until later, so its not my mistake for
pointing out a few riders who did race from SB.
marco
> Riders from Santa Barbara...
> Meredith Mills and Jennifer Gabet are both Cat 1-2, from Santa Barbara,
> Gabet is from Goleta. Angela Rebol is from Santa Barbara, how about
> Michelle La Pierre or Amanda McCoy, all from Santa Barbara. Amy Nett, Lila
> Ferguson and Angela Bell are all pro cyclists from Santa Barbara.
So, because I don't like exaggerations or faulty implications, I said:
>> I'm sorry, but you are wrong in this matter.
>> ...
>>... they are not pro bike racers.
This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested
some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of
some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national
level.
We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly speaking,
"Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a UCI
professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's side
to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer who is
competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your examples still
don't fly.
Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are
generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the
men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a
UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period.
And then you went on to say:
> I have a friend who lives in Goleta
> ...
> He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries.
And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked:
>> who is your friend in Goleta who races?
And you responed:
> He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and
> double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few
> things.
Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but these
exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do know a
lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions above.
You said:
> I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing
> you are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I
> guessing Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson
> salary either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k,
> even more in some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a
> pity and a shock.
I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have
plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject
...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting information.
Mark
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Bob Schwartz" <bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote in message
Fuckhead,
Thousands of people use the free Outlook news agent, get over it. The bugs
are a minor issue to me.
Michael Press
Donald Munro <no...@mailinator.com> wrote:
As far as I can tell the chess groups have no
concept of trolling (or humor). It will be a
lonely endeavor, since nobody will ever snap to;
and without credit for the same reason.
--
Michael Press
marco
> I listed a few who were cat 1,2,3,4. So big fucking deal, where's there
> smoke there's fire. I bet there have been several pro riders that came out
> of UCSB and Goleta, SB over the past few decades.
True, but only on the mens' side. The exception is Lynn Brontzman/Gaggioli
who went to UCSB. I cannot think of any other examples of pro women from
this area. For that matter, I cannot think of a single cat 1 woman from
here. Kim Anderson only recently moved here, so she doesn't count.
> I never said they were superstars, but they placed well in some races
> against some well known names at that time. NRC was just a reference to
> the fact some racers particapaded in NRC events, which means they were
> more then just rec riders. He didn't clarify what his thoughts were until
> later, so its not my mistake for pointing out a few riders who did race
> from SB.
I'm searching for an easy-to-agree-on distinction between recreational
racing and what you are considering "pro" and I'm struggling. Just because a
woman racer can and does enter an event that has real Pro women
participating, it does not put her on that level. Same thing definitely
applies to the mens' side.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"marco" <marco_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:y5P%m.11496$w21....@newsfe17.iad...
> This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested
> some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of
> some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national
> level.
Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took
to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them
ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none
of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and
raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers.
At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very
big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are
racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race
often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not
what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often
enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems
there were a few.
I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were
neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some
well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but
IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering
this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat
after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be
really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years.
> We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly
> speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a
> UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's
> side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer
> who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your
> examples still don't fly.
I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a
UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro
1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of
any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made
little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid
professionals like Tibco, etc.
>
> Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are
> generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the
> men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a
> UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period.
My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I
consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch,
and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times,
although some work part or full time jobs.
>
> And then you went on to say:
>> I have a friend who lives in Goleta
>> ...
>> He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries.
>
> And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked:
>>> who is your friend in Goleta who races?
>
> And you responed:
>> He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and
>> double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few
>> things.
You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in
rbr, but I am not trying to win this one. Why does everything have to be a
he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake
there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not
something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He
did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does
singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might
know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big
fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I
had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there
on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess
Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been
to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where
Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends
works at the Art Musuem on state street.
> Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but
> these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do
> know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions
> above.
I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar
talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just
shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you
can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and
mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort
through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of shit out there for
someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic,
although some people revel in that.
> I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have
> plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject
> ...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting
> information.
Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race
organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance
with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the
women riders. You know who to ask.
z
Then shut up.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "marco" <marco_fenne...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Goddamn you are verbose.
GoneBeforeMyTime
If I come up with any more from SB, I will post them for fun. How's that,
although its just trivia I guess. Well for me, its fairly simple. If they
are cat 1-2, then generally speaking they are serious, not rec riders.
However, some cat 2 women I agree is questionable about how much they race
or train, even Stevens was a cat 4, and how serious was she? She was
seriously good, even better then UCI women, so it depends on how good they
really are, are they serious? There could be some who could become very good
if they trained seriously from the cat 2, but cat 1 is serious. I call the
NRC calandar serious, but there are a lot of races which are not NRC which
are quite serious and draw top women like Toona. We call them Pro 1-2 women,
but really the cat 1 would be the serious ones and how many cat 1 women are
there in the USA? By definition, Pro means someone who is paid, and even
back to the earliest times bike racers were called professionals because
they earned income at it. Cat 1-2 women earn income at bike racing in the
USA, both in salaries and prize money. The UCI says you must be on a UCI
team and earning a salary to be a professional. Take your pick.
Staff at the USAC once told me this...
In previous decades, both amateur and pro women were allowed to compete in
the games, so it didn't make any difference. At the time, earnings in the
amateur status changed from year to year for women, so what defined a pro
women in cycling was a gray area, which the UCI had their own solution for.
Since the limits for earnings in the amateur status changed from year to
year, not every organization conformed to a guideline, and they were allowed
to set their own standards until the time came when clarification was
needed. The UCI set the rules for what it was to be called a Professional
women in cycling by being on a UCI team and earning a salary. Since women
started racing the games in 1984, about the same time UCI men's rankings
started, the UCI felt the need to clarify what was a woman pro with it's
women's UCI teams.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "marco" <marco_fenne...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Dumbass -
Serious has nothing to do with it. I was serious about racing for
several years, but was miles away from making a dime at it.
You started this thread off about how much chicks can make racing
bikes. That Swedish cookie, Emma J, is one of the best, and prettiest
(which shouldn't matter a whit, except we all know that looks boost a
female athlete's bankability considerably), riders in the world.
Silver medal at the Olympics, was leading the UCI world cup, and she
says point blank that she barely makes a living at bike racing.
Unless she is lying, that means there are only a handful of
professional women bike racers in the world, by any reasonable
definition of the word "professional."
That's really all there is to it. You can regale us with all the
insider nonsense from your Cat 1-4 fantasy world, and from your racing/
nonracing Fred-ride friends, but the bottom line is there ain't that
much money in all of cycling, and especially not in women's cycling.
For every Petra Rossner that is making a respectable living, there are
300 other chickies, whom no one but you has ever heard of, who get a
bike and a jersey. And they have to return the bike.
-rj
GoneBeforeMyTime
"z" <No...@not.ca> wrote in message news:VzQ%m.1443$Wl3....@newsfe11.iad...
> Then shut up.
No, this is my hangover from news years thread, so its ok once it a while.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"ronaldo_jeremiah" <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bc2c5140-8d6c-466b...@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Serious has nothing to do with it. I was serious about racing for
several years, but was miles away from making a dime at it.
You started this thread off about how much chicks can make racing
bikes. That Swedish cookie, Emma J, is one of the best, and prettiest
(which shouldn't matter a whit, except we all know that looks boost a
female athlete's bankability considerably), riders in the world.
Silver medal at the Olympics, was leading the UCI world cup, and she
says point blank that she barely makes a living at bike racing.
Unless she is lying, that means there are only a handful of
professional women bike racers in the world, by any reasonable
definition of the word "professional."
That's really all there is to it. You can regale us with all the
insider nonsense from your Cat 1-4 fantasy world, and from your racing/
nonracing Fred-ride friends, but the bottom line is there ain't that
much money in all of cycling, and especially not in women's cycling.
For every Petra Rossner that is making a respectable living, there are
300 other chickies, whom no one but you has ever heard of, who get a
bike and a jersey. And they have to return the bike.
-rj
That way oversimplifying it. Emma doesn't have the palmares to warrant big
money just yet. Sure she was 2nd in the Olympics, but big deal, nobody knew
her name before that. That's not enough. Liz Hatch is cute too and got on a
UCI team without any results. So far, Emma looks haven't really gotten her
very far either. Emma will get the money when she wins the World Cup and the
World Championships. 2nd place usually doesn't count for much, and she
relatively new to cycling. Someone like Arndt has been racing and winning
since the 90's, big difference. I'm just saying, I don't believe Emma gets
paid that much from Red Sun. If she was worth so much, she would of been
recuited by High Road or Cervelo, instead they scooped up Stevens.
The difference is women here can earn a decent wage at a job while bike
racing, while Pro men must race full time, not the 12k dreamers but the 35k
crowd. I don't see much of a difference in that respect in regards to total
yearly income, but it appears women have better options. 15k or 30k is a
nice yearly tip, while holding down a regular job.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"marco" <marco_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ctP%m.666$YP1...@newsfe15.iad...
> I'm searching for an easy-to-agree-on
Snip..
Here's something on the light side to wrap up this thread.
World Champion Tatiana sings...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U8ptTEG59k
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "z" <N...@not.ca> wrote in messagenews:VzQ%m.1443$Wl3....@newsfe11.iad...
> > Then shut up.
>
> No, this is my hangover from news years thread, so its ok once it a while.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> Emma will get the money when she wins the World Cup and the
> World Championships.
Dumbass -
That's exactly the point. Just to make a living wage as a female
cyclist, you have to be the best in the world.
Now go and change the subject a few more times. Tell us how Cat 4
women actually get paid the best, because they don't get paid, and
therefore have jobs, so they are actually the best paid cyclists.
Tell us how your friend who races, except he doesn't race, knows the
cousin of the brother of the girlfriend of a chick who fetches
waterbottles on a team none of us have ever heard of heard from Petra
Rossner's girlfriend that she makes a lot of money.
Tell us how you get off harder with your carbon fleshlight (watch out
for explosions) when you imagine that the lesbian chick you are
whacking off to makes more than Bernard Hinault ever did. (Cause,
obviously, Hinault didn't have a job.)
You're more deluded than a Page/Hatch lovechild.
-rj
GoneBeforeMyTime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1lVSWaafec
No thanks, we know about your links.
GoneBeforeMyTime
On Jan 2, 6:50 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" <F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>You're more deluded than a Page/Hatch lovechild.
Rim Job, this is why I always avoid your posts, and your porn links.
Howard Kveck
ronaldo_jeremiah <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You're more deluded than a Page/Hatch lovechild.
More deluded than a Danielson fan/Hatch fan lovechild?
--
tanx,
Howard
Caught playing safe
It's a bored game
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Sandy" <leur...@free.fr> wrote in message
>
> news:4b3fa275$0$13095$426a...@news.free.fr...
> On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a déclaré...:
>
>
>
> >news:8dGdnccHV6xpF6LW...@sti.net...
>
> >> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
Dumbass -
Philly Sucks!
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> On 02-Jan-10 02:24, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. a bien réfléchi et
> puis a déclaré...:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 1, 11:32 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime"<F...@EuroFans.com> wrote:
>
> >> I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing you
> >> are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I guessing
> >> Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson salary
> >> either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k, even more in
> >> some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a pity and a
> >> shock.
>
>
> > OK. So Arndt makes $50-75k/year.
>
> > She's good. She gets results. She gets publicity.
>
> > Most other female North American get a tiny fraction of the amount of
> > publicity Arndt receives. Their salaries will be commensurately lower.
>
> > I wish I was wrong, but that's reality.
>
> > thanks,
>
> > Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
>
> playing at a game in the outdoors are earnung $75K for part of a year?
>
> It's not as though they (or in parallel, male racers) spend a life
> making this planet happier and safer.
>
> Or are you saying that factory workers earning half that or less are
> really the lowest form of life? If so, direct this to an Op-Ed page and
> get some proletarian reactions.
>
> Or are you in the income-distribution mode? If advertisers benefit, so
> should the peons in their employ? Fine, same direction to Op-Ed.
> Capitalism has been the rage for a while, so your contribution will be
> invaluable.
>
> If riding a bike is so very awful, they can retrain in useful careers,
> or stop bubbling up with covetousness, for all the rest care.
>
> Envy is a sin except her, it appears.
Dumbass -
All I'm saying is that, contrary to Bruce's contention, that the very
vast majority of professional female bike racers don't make much
money.
That's all.
Donald Munro
> As far as I can tell the chess groups have no
> concept of trolling (or humor).
Kunich and Bruce would love it there. Perhaps they can be re-programmed
to be chess fans, just think of all the hot russian chess chicks Bruce
could stock.
William Asher
@donaldm.homeip.net:
SotS too, with all the pawns of the monarchy to insult.
--
Bill Asher
Fred Fredburger
They might even be pros.
GoneBeforeMyTime
"Fred Fredburger" <Som...@Somewhere.You.Dont.Wanna.Be> wrote in message
news:4b40...@news.x-privat.org...
Dummies, I used to win chess tournaments between competing high schools and
was clearly leaps and bounds ahead of anyone in chess at my high school of
nearly 2000 students, but I mainly did it as a way to fight boredom at
various times since I didn't take to sports right away. Chess quickly became
un-hip to me after a few years.
William R. Mattil
>
> Dummies, I used to win chess tournaments between competing high schools and
> was clearly leaps and bounds ahead of anyone in chess at my high school of
> nearly 2000 students, but I mainly did it as a way to fight boredom at
> various times since I didn't take to sports right away. Chess quickly became
> un-hip to me after a few years.
>
Clearly you are a Legend in your own mind .......
Thanks
Bill
--
William R. Mattil
GoneBeforeMyTime
"William R. Mattil" <wrma...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:hhqpqs$emj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>
>>
>> Dummies, I used to win chess tournaments between competing high schools
>> and was clearly leaps and bounds ahead of anyone in chess at my high
>> school of nearly 2000 students, but I mainly did it as a way to fight
>> boredom at various times since I didn't take to sports right away. Chess
>> quickly became un-hip to me after a few years.
>>
>
>
> Clearly you are a Legend in your own mind .......
Clearly, I was a good chess player in my teens, early 20's, but big deal.
Being good at Chess doesn't pay the bills, and it's really boring, hours and
hours of just sitting there on pins and needles.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "William R. Mattil" <wrmat...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in messagenews:hhqpqs$emj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
>
> >> Dummies, I used to win chess tournaments between competing high schools
> >> and was clearly leaps and bounds ahead of anyone in chess at my high
> >> school of nearly 2000 students, but I mainly did it as a way to fight
> >> boredom at various times since I didn't take to sports right away. Chess
> >> quickly became un-hip to me after a few years.
>
> > Clearly you are a Legend in your own mind .......
>
> Clearly, I was a good chess player in my teens, early 20's, but big deal.
Dumbass -
So what was your ranking?