What is the problem with Rodies
Daryl Spano
I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
If this attitude is common in other areas, it seems that it only brings
down the sport. Please do not flame me, my desire is that all biking
gain in popularity.
--
Daryl Spano
d...@writeme.com
atropos
In article <335623...@writeme.com>
Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> writes:
[...stuff about roadie snobs deleted...]
>I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
>Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>
Chris Boardman's monthly column in "Cycle Sport," even HE complains
about this...he says he always nods at other cyclists and they
always ignore him. (Since I'm assuming you aren't that familiar
with road racing, Boardman is the current holder of the world hour
record and is always impressive in TTs) I think there's some
correlation that generally holds true: the friendliness of the
rider is proportionate to his/her talent level. There are always
exceptions (I try to be one; I suck but I acknowledge others on
the road if they acknowledge me), but that's just my observation.
Diane
d...@ukcc.uky.edu
Norman Austin
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 06:21:07 -0700, Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com>
wrote:
>I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
>I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
>Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>
>If this attitude is common in other areas, it seems that it only brings
>down the sport. Please do not flame me, my desire is that all biking
>gain in popularity.
>
>--
>
>Daryl Spano
>d...@writeme.com
I am a roadie/racer that waves. It seems like a substantial majority
around here (midwest) do likewise. However, some elitist wanabes seem
to only reciprocate if I am in techno garb, not in my scruffies.
Don't let a few snobs spoil the fun. It's not a mountain vs road
thing.
Norm
Jack Dingler
Not all roadies are rude. I'm not. :)
I have noticed a correlation between equipment and snobbishness though.
The more expensive the bike, the less likely it is that a rider will
return a wave or hello or whatever.
Recently I rode by a cyclist that was getting a beautiful carbon fiber
road bike out his minivan at Joe Pool Lake. I was a little tired after
already riding 75 miles, and felt like taking a short break. I stopped
near him and wished him a good morning. He looked at me and turned
around in a huff, ignoring me. I took my break near the marina
instead. Later when I passed him on the levee, I figured he was just
upset at having spent so much money and still couldn't ride.
Oh, well. I try not to let it bother me.
--
* Jack Dingler * Bill Clinton, has never, does not,
* jdin...@onramp.net * and will never, have any knowledge
* Probably not * of any WhiteHouse activities.
* your opinion * Isn't it obvious?
David J Bennett
atropos (D...@ukcc.uky.edu) wrote:
: In article <335623...@writeme.com>:
: >I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
: >riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
: >
: >Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
: Nope. Roadies are just snobs, at least at the lower levels. In
: Chris Boardman's monthly column in "Cycle Sport," even HE complains
: about this...he says he always nods at other cyclists and they
: always ignore him. (Since I'm assuming you aren't that familiar
: with road racing, Boardman is the current holder of the world hour
: record and is always impressive in TTs) I think there's some
: correlation that generally holds true: the friendliness of the
: rider is proportionate to his/her talent level. There are always
: exceptions (I try to be one; I suck but I acknowledge others on
: the road if they acknowledge me), but that's just my observation.
Naaaah. You get pratts[1] in all walks of life. I know enough friendly
roadies and have seen enough unfriendly MTBers.
Of course, I'm always freindly to them... first.
Cheers
djb
[1] Pratt: When I was kid it was quoted as meaning "a pregnant goldfish",
but let me just say that it doesn't mean this, exactly. It's a kind of
insult you could say about someone in front of your mother. Nonetheless,
the "real" meaning, if you beleive in such things, is quite rude!
--
| David J. Bennett | Phone: +44 (0)1904 432765 |
| Dept of Computer Science | Email: dav...@cs.york.ac.uk |
| University of York | Fax: +44 (0)1904 432767 |
| York, YO1 5DD, UK | WWW: http://www.york.ac.uk/~djb104/ |
Bruce Hildenbrand
In article <5j5f8a$r3k$1...@netty.york.ac.uk> djb...@york.ac.uk (David J Bennett) writes:
>atropos (D...@ukcc.uky.edu) wrote:
>: In article <335623...@writeme.com>
>: Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> writes:
>:
>: [...stuff about roadie snobs deleted...]
>:
>: >I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>: >riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>: >
>: >Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>: >
>: Nope. Roadies are just snobs, at least at the lower levels. In
>: Chris Boardman's monthly column in "Cycle Sport," even HE complains
>: about this...he says he always nods at other cyclists and they
>: always ignore him. (Since I'm assuming you aren't that familiar
>: with road racing, Boardman is the current holder of the world hour
>: record and is always impressive in TTs) I think there's some
>: correlation that generally holds true: the friendliness of the
>: rider is proportionate to his/her talent level. There are always
>: exceptions (I try to be one; I suck but I acknowledge others on
>: the road if they acknowledge me), but that's just my observation.
>
>Naaaah. You get pratts[1] in all walks of life. I know enough friendly
>roadies and have seen enough unfriendly MTBers.
Yup! There is enough snobbiness in both the road and MTB community, please
don't go singling out one group or the other they are equally bad. And as
one poster pointed out, the snobbiness seems to be inversly proportional
to ability.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Tony Pinto
(snip) I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
> (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
> I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
> riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
snip
Perhaps it is justified. While I ride a road bike and do wave to every
other cyclist I see , I have found the same to be true. Most people on
road bikes totally ignore you. I think that this arrogant behavior really
has a detrimental impact on the sport. I have talked to other guys in my
bike club and they all tend to agree that it is very uncommon for you
develop a friendship with someone who you race against. All the people they
talk too outside of the club were the result of contacts made years ago
when the sport wasn't so uptight. Whether it is elitism, people trying to
recapture their youth or lack of experience in competitive event it seem to
be very prevalent in my area. People who try mountain bike racing like the
friendly laid back attitude at the races, I have never heard that from
someone doing their first road race. No I am not about to start racing on a
mountain bike but I would like have more fun after the race is over. Try
to think of the last time you saw a group of guys (not from the same team)
chatting about the race and biking in general. You see that all the time in
running races but seldom in bike races. Maybe that is why you see a lot of
newcomers in running races but just the same faces at bike races.
JMTC
Tony Pinto
John Roden
Daryl Spano wrote:
>
> I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
> six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
> (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
I'd wave atcha, and I'm a roadie. (But I race MTB's and do biathlons,
too) I wave at runners too. Maybe that makes me a hack rider.
John, not a snob.
Chuck Connell
As a former roadie, you are right, most road racers are snobs. If your
clothing is not cool and your bike not worth thousands, things get
worse.
I loved the sport during the years that I did it (and made some good
friends) but I got tired of many racers. Actually, snobishness was not
the worst sin. What really bugged me was riders who would put me in the
hospital to gain a slight advantage in a race.
Chuck
MCRadomski
I wouldn't confuse "roadies" with people who are just bungholes in
general. When I'm on the road, I almost always wave and usually get a
response. I don't think it has anything to do with my MTB background and
current triathlete ways. When I don't wave, it's because I'm working
really hard and probably suffering. I've found most people on
bikes--MTBers and roadies--to normally be friendly to their own. It's
pretty simple, we're outside, doing what we love, and hammering. Why
wouldn't we wave? The jerks who don't are probably the same guys who
wouldn't acknowledge you walking on the sidewalk and would cut you off in
traffic, . . .not to mention steal from their mothers.
DMR
Washington, DC, USA
Tim McNamara
I've never bothered to count, but I feel that there is a wariness about
road riders when dealing with each other. We try to never reveal our true
strength to the competition!
Go to a road bike race. People show up, do their race and go home. They
pay no attention to the other races, don't cheer anyone else on, and
function in their own little bubble. They'll drive out the race course
through another race peloton, even, just t go home because they apparently
can't weight ten minutes until the course is clear. They yell & holler at
the neighbors, park blocking their drveways and piss on their lawns.
Go to a mountain bike race and notice that people cheer each other on.
Many's the time that I, as a clydesdale, get blown by on the hill by some
greyhound in Lycra who turns around in his saddle as he goes by to cheer
me on!
Despite this I prefer to road race (at least I have a chance of finishing
with everyone else). Maybe I'm as bad as the rest of them, I don't know.
But I do try to wave at *everyone* I see on a bike, whether they look like
a "serious" biker- whatever that is- or not. It's a small world.
Tim
--
Don't you touch hard liquor- just a cup of cold coffee.
Gonna get up in the morning and go.
-Robert Hunter
dga...@popmail.lmu.edu
Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> wrote:
>
> I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
> six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
> little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
> (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
> riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
Don't feel bad--I don't have my verbal greetings reciprocated most of the
time, and I ride skinny tires. OTOH, some roadies may be giving you a
small nod from a distance; I don't like to take my hands off the bars.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Mike Miller
I'm sorry to hear that. I currently ride a road bike exclusively (that
may change in the fall....). I always try to wave, or at least "salute"
by tilting my helmit, to every bike rider who rides by.
/m<don't paint everyone with a single brush>
Daryl Spano wrote:
>
> I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
> six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
> little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
> (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
> I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
> riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
> Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>
Alex Rodriguez
In article <335623...@writeme.com>, d...@writeme.com says...
>
>I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
>I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
>Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>
>If this attitude is common in other areas, it seems that it only brings
>down the sport. Please do not flame me, my desire is that all biking
>gain in popularity.
Maybe its where you ride. When I go riding in NJ I get about 90% wave back.
In NYC no one bothers to wave cause you really need both hands on the bars
all the time.
--
----------------------
Alex __0
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)
Roger Marquis
In rec.bicycles.racing Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
>I have noticed a correlation between equipment and snobbishness though.
>The more expensive the bike, the less likely it is that a rider will
>return a wave or hello or whatever.
I always wonder about posters like this, apparently intent on putting
other cyclist(s) down. Perhaps they see themselves as superior for
waving? In both cases the elitism is clear.
Roger Marquis
PS. What's a "rodie"?
Chris Fischer
In article <335623...@writeme.com>, Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> wrote:
>I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
>I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
>Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>
>If this attitude is common in other areas, it seems that it only brings
>down the sport. Please do not flame me, my desire is that all biking
>gain in popularity.
>
>
>Daryl Spano
>d...@writeme.com
Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
almost shocking.
Chris Fischer
nbce...@delphi.com
Bruce Hildenbrand <bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com> writes:
>Yup! There is enough snobbiness in both the road and MTB community, please
>don't go singling out one group or the other they are equally bad. And as
>one poster pointed out, the snobbiness seems to be inversly proportional
>to ability.
>
>Bruce Hildenbrand
suck your wheel. Its great fun to then move over, put them in the wind, and
watch them blow up trying to keep pace unaided.
Brian Lafferty
Gary Dickson
What's a 'Rodie'? Someone who like Dennis Rodman?
Michael P. Riley
A view from a collegiate racer:
In 3 years of racing in the collegiate Eastern Conference, I have found
the other riders to be very friendly and approachable. I have met and
made friends with many of the riders I compete against in collegiate races.
I've even seen examples of riders from different teams encouraging each
other to latch back on the the field after coming off the back on climbs
or sharing tips on how to stay warm during cold and wet races.
Food and water are readily shared.
Despite (or maybe due to?) the comaraderie, the competition in the Eastern
Conference is very intense and the racing is a hell of a lot of fun.
Mike Riley
University of Pennsylvania Cycling Team
Randy Bradley
Are you watching real close? I know I wave at anything that moves, but
usually if my hands are draped on the brake hoods, or even if I'm riding on
the top bar, I just raise my fingers as high as I can. The alternative of
taking one hand off the bar to wave is simply more unstable on a road bike
as compared to a mountain bike, although I always do make the effort if I
see a cyclist but that is very rare in the midwest.
Randy
Lyle Beidler
>Yup! There is enough snobbiness in both the road and MTB community,
True. Although it is true that on the road, less people will wave, but
out on the trail, usually folks will even say "Hi." But I think this is
becuase when you pass someone on the trail you're right next to them, and
often even have to get off the trail to let folks by.
I also find it rude when I'm road riding and am passed by a car that obviously
belongs to a bikie (ie it has bikes on the roof or Mavic and Rock Shox
stickers on the rear bumper) and I wave and they don't wave back.
One time I was riding, and was passed by a red Jetta with big stickers in the
back that said "Main Street Bikes" (Lititz, Pa) and I waved to him and he
didn't wave back. I never went back to that shop again, even in it's new
incarnation.
Lyle Beidler Pennsylvanian by birth, Nittany Lion by the grace of God
lkb...@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/lkb128/
"I may be weird, but you can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant" -Unknown
"And then it's Ollie, Ollie oxen free; bad aim for a control pitcher" - Keith Olberman
"I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak
Cause there ain't no disguising the Truth." -DC Talk, "Jesus Freak"
Steven L. Sheffield
> I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
> six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
> little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
> (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
I think a big part of it is how long you've been riding. If I
waved every time I saw another cyclist, my left hand would spend
more time in the air than it would on my bars ... and I'm sick
of it ... so I wave only to those people I know/recognise (regardless
of what kind of bike they're on). These days, people buying bikes
for the first time tend to buy mountain bikes, so one can reasonably
assume (although, obviously it's not always true) that a person
on a road bike has been a cyclist for awhile.
Do you wave at everyone driving the same kind of car you do? Do
pedestrians wave at every other pedestrian? Do bus riders wave
at ever other bus rider? No! Why should I wave at every other
cyclist?
Besides, it can be dangerous to keep taking your hands off the bars.
> I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
> riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
It's not justified.
> Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
No, it's not because you are on a mountain bike. Besides, some of
the snottiest people I know are mountain bikers. If you don't have
the hottest new CNC-machined piece of unproven technology, then you
ain't worth shit, is an attitude prevalent with both roadies and
mountain bikers (but there's a lot more CNC-machined crap for MTBs
than for road bikes).
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Steven L. Sheffield (BOB #1765/IBOB #3) Disclaimer? What's that? |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| E-mail: ste...@veloworks.com / ste...@winterland.com |
| WWW: http://www.veloworks.com/rivendell/ |
| Voice: +1 415 296-9893 / Fax: +1 415 597-9849 / Ride yer bike! |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Steven L. Sheffield
In article <E8sns...@boss.cs.ohiou.edu>, fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu
(Chris Fischer) wrote:
> I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
> rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
> almost shocking.
At the Pine Flat RR, this year, I was way off the back when I got
passed by the Masters 45+ riders (who also had another Senior 5
tagging along with). A little further up the road (and up the
major climb), I saw the Senior 5 sitting on the side of the road,
bonking hard ... I stopped, gave him a PowerGel, and made sure he
was okay before heading on my way.
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <335623...@writeme.com> Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> writes:
>
>I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I
see.
>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80%
of
>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>
So you're starting to dislike "roadies" because of the behaviour of
some? So can I say that some mountain bikers like to make
generalizations and I'm starting to dislike your crew in return?
Well??
JT
Mike Prybell
I have 2 bikes, 1 mountain worth $4000, 1 road worth about $3300. I split
my time pretty much equaly between both as far as riding. I wave or
gesture to every cyclist I see, regardless of equipment/experiance, and
guess what I have found. There are more asshole MTBers then there are
roadies. I am real sick of the elitest beginer/sport racer attitude that
is rampent among the MTB community. I am also sick of hearing that roadies
suck/ BMXers suck. Anybody that has to be Mr. attitude is doing so
because he sucks so bad that he has to make up for it by being a hard ass.
To those people I give the single finger solute. Lighten up, it's just
bikes, not brain surgery.
--
>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=
Mike
mikepry...@worldnet.att.net
"A trail is a terrible thing to waste....... Hammer On."
<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=
Lyle Beidler
As another collegiate rider, I agree totally.
>Mike Riley
>University of Pennsylvania Cycling Team
Congratulations on your excellent performance at Easterns!
(We Penn State riders weren't very happy... :-) )
George R Crawford
Any VW owners out there? I've had my westy for about 6 months and get
more waves from other VW owners (especially westy owners). Does this
happen everywhere? I sure hope so.
Crawdad
George R Crawford
I'm not sure what the big deal with a hand wave is. I often just nod my
head and smile. There's also the popular quick head jerk upwards. Each
is as good as a hand wave in my book.
Crawdad
George R Crawford
In article <stevens-1704...@bikiebob.vip.best.com> ste...@veloworks.com (Steven L. Sheffield) writes:
<snip>
>
>Do you wave at everyone driving the same kind of car you do?
Yes I do. But I drive a '70 VW Campervan and everyone waves a me first.
Crawdad
gcra...@altair.csustan.edu ..------~~~--.__
http://yahi.csustan.edu/~gcrawfor/crawhome.html / c~\
/ \__ `\
| /~~--__/ /'\ ~~'
/'/'\ | | |`\ \_
`-)) `-)) `-)) `-))
Bruce Hildenbrand
In article <E8sns...@boss.cs.ohiou.edu> fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu (Chris Fischer) writes:
>In article <335623...@writeme.com>, Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> wrote:
>>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>>
>>I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>>
>>
>>down the sport. Please do not flame me, my desire is that all biking
>>gain in popularity.
>>
>>
>>Daryl Spano
>>d...@writeme.com
>
>Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
>admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
>almost shocking.
This is pretty easily explained by the difference between MTB races and
road races.
MTB races are basically individual time trials. There is no pack, you can't
get "dropped". When an MTB racer tells me how they have done, they usually
say something like "I got 18th". What they don't say is that they were
20 minutes back of the winner in a 2 hour race.
In road racing (criteriums and road races) there is drafting and the
"pack" is a big, big part of the race. For most people, finishing the
race without getting "dropped" from the pack is a major goal. Because
of this, you are forced to deal with your other competitors and stopping
mid-race has much more dire consequences.
There are other differences that follow from the differing formats,
but Seinfeld is on.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Dan
I hate to admit it, since I've spent 99% of my cycling life on skinny
tires, but I've often felt the same way. There just seems to be
something about road riding that discourages general friendliness. Maybe
it is the tactics that help in a race (that "kill or be killed"
attitude) carried to an extreme, I don't know. Maybe there is a bit of
eliteism, too. But I don't think it has to do simply with having one's
hands occupied or riding too fast to talk. It seems to be more than
that. Before you light the flamethrowers, just remember that this is a
generalization... it doesn't apply to everyone. It just seems to apply
to more of the people I encounter on my road bike than in other aspects
of my life.
I think the tactics that we learn during the races begin to dominate all
aspects of our riding, including our training and solo riding. Mix this
with a sizable (notice I didn't say healthy) dose of ego and you begin
to see problems. Oh, sure, we chat during those 3 hour training rides,
but the moment someone goes off the front, others can't wait for them to
die. They'll even talk about the best way to make them suffer if they
fall back to the pack. And this is amoung a group of friends (otherwise)
who ride together 3-4 times per week. The hill climbers will soft-pedal
the descents just to kill the momentum of the heavier riders, the
time-trialists will block the sprinters in just before the county-line
sprints, the pack will accelerate if a small gap forms at the rear and
laugh about the poor suckers that got dropped, etc, etc.
To be fair, there are notable exceptions to this "kill or be killed"
attitude. Some of us try to be friendly when we meet a stranger, whether
it is at a race or on the road, or drop back a little and pull the
straglers back up to the pack, and I've seen some people's attitude
mellow once they are called on it, but I don't think the culture of road
cycling will ever be quite as friendly as the mountain bike races or
triathlons that I've been to.
Just my two cents worth. FWIW.
Michael Owen
Daryl Spano (d...@writeme.com) wrote:
: I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
: six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
: little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
: (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
: people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
: (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
:
: I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
: riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
:
: Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
This seems to be a universal problem-I do road riding and MTBing-I can go
for a road ride and generally other roadies will wave or nod back at you
but if I get home, change my shoes and go MTBing the roadies will never
wave or even acknowledge me-there's something funny going on there. A lot
of roadies seem to to blindly despise MTBers without even thinking about
it or giving it a go. Also Bruce is exactly right when he says for roadies
that friendliness is inversely proportional to talent.
:
: If this attitude is common in other areas, it seems that it only brings
Maverick
Do you feel yourself superior because you are immune to typos?
tim
Someone
Roger Marquis <mar...@roble.com> wrote in article
<5j68ff$8i6$1...@alba.roble.com>...
> In rec.bicycles.racing Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com> wrote:
> >I have noticed a correlation between equipment and snobbishness though.
> >The more expensive the bike, the less likely it is that a rider will
> >return a wave or hello or whatever.
>
> I always wonder about posters like this, apparently intent on putting
> other cyclist(s) down. Perhaps they see themselves as superior for
> waving? In both cases the elitism is clear.
>
> Roger Marquis
>
> PS. What's a "rodie"?
>
Roger is one of the "elite" few who make no typos.
Bruce Hildenbrand
In article <3356FC...@mindspring.com> Dan <Dan...@mindspring.com> writes:
>I hate to admit it, since I've spent 99% of my cycling life on skinny
>tires, but I've often felt the same way. There just seems to be
>something about road riding that discourages general friendliness. Maybe
>it is the tactics that help in a race (that "kill or be killed"
>attitude) carried to an extreme, I don't know. Maybe there is a bit of
>eliteism, too. But I don't think it has to do simply with having one's
>hands occupied or riding too fast to talk. It seems to be more than
>that. Before you light the flamethrowers, just remember that this is a
>generalization... it doesn't apply to everyone. It just seems to apply
>to more of the people I encounter on my road bike than in other aspects
>of my life.
Forget the generalizations, you have to find a better class of people
to ride/race with. I still keep in contact with people I raced with
20 years ago. Heck, at the Grundig race in Napa a couple of weeks ago,
it was one big, happy homecoming for a whole slew of my old racing
buddies. We went riding together, partied and swapped stories and
kind of forgot to sleep enough.
Let's face it, most of us will never amount to much in the grand
scheme of racing. About the best we can hope to take from this
sport is a bunch of life-long friends. And when you get right
down to it, that is probably the best prize you could ever take
from racing.
Bruce Hildenbrand
ps - Nah, I was just kidding. It is much better to get to train alone,
get to the race 1/2 before the start, leave right after your event so
you can get an extra 50 miles by yourself before the sun sets.
Bruce Hildenbrand
In article <5j6uo3$grp$1...@enyo.uwa.edu.au> mi...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Michael Owen) writes:
>
>Daryl Spano (d...@writeme.com) wrote:
>: I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
>: six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>: little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>: (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>: people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>: (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>:
>: I've put up with it for a while, now I am starting to dislike road
>: riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>:
>: Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>
>This seems to be a universal problem-I do road riding and MTBing-I can go
>for a road ride and generally other roadies will wave or nod back at you
>but if I get home, change my shoes and go MTBing the roadies will never
>wave or even acknowledge me-there's something funny going on there. A lot
>of roadies seem to to blindly despise MTBers without even thinking about
>it or giving it a go. Also Bruce is exactly right when he says for roadies
>that friendliness is inversely proportional to talent.
I'm Bruce and I would just like to correct the attribution and say that
my comment was "Snobiness is inversely proportional to talent". The
corrolary is "Friendliness is proportional to talent".
Also, it has been my experience that this applies to roadies and MTB'ers
equally.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Crom39
I'm a roadie who waves to everyone - other roadies, MTBers, old people on
even older Schwinns, walkers, dogs (haha). Most others don't wave. I just
don't get it.
Unfortunately, alot of 'techies' on big $$$ road bikes don't wave, but
some do.
Maybe they're afraid of crashing as they wave?
I have an 'old' - @1989 - Vitus (the "slow, mushy frame" I've heard)
with unremarkable components and my clothes are definitely not cool -
usually regular shorts over bike shorts and a sleeveless old shirt.
Hehehehehehe I guess I look pretty funny by 'techie' standards.
Hey, I've been ignored by MTBers on high $$ machines while MTBing, too.
<My MTB is *really* old and beat>
I think it's a $$$ thing; snobs are snobs. If you don't have a hot
bike, they don't have anything to say to you. If you don't have a
fast-looking bike/clothes you must be slow ( we ALL know thats not true ).
Still, not all those big $$ bike riders are snobs.
Blah blah blah.....
Bill
Paul Kedrosky
Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> wrote:
>I have been training on the street for mountain bike racing for about
>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
>Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
An interesting question. And one that my girlfriend has asked me about
recently. I had mentioned to her how friendly cyclists were down near
San Diego, friendly to the point that I had almost crashed once or
twice in waving back at passing cyclists when I should have been
watching the road and maintaining a tight grip on the bars. She acted
like I was nuts. "Cyclists here are soooo unfriendly," she said.
"No-one ever waves." She rides a mountain bike and wears deck shoes.
Hmmmm. Using myself and my waving habits as an example, I'll wave at
most any roadie that I see who looks relatively fit and is dressed in
roadie clothes. If I spot someone coming who doesn't look roadie-ish
then I generally don't pay much attention to them as they pass. But
the reason why I'm looking in the former case and not in the latter
has more to do with equipment envy than anything else. I like to see
what other people are riding, how they're riding, etc. I just don't
pay much attention to people who aren't riding stuff that I'm not
interested in riding.
So, speaking for myself, it's not so much snobbishness as lack of
interest leading to not paying attention to non-roadies. Other
thoughts out there?
P.
Dr. David Martin
Chris Fischer wrote:
>
>
> Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
> admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
> races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
> rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
> almost shocking.
>
ISTR in one of the UK junior championships a break of two was some
minutes ahead of the field. One punctured. The other guy stopped and
waited until the service car had given him a spare and then they carried
on.
(I don't remember the exact details, but it was so rare as to be
mentioned. Usually the guy without the puncture would just press on on
their own)
..d
--
* David Martin - Atherosclerosis and Thrombosis research group *
* http://www.uio.no/~damartin/ david....@biotek.uio.no *
* Lab +47 22 95 84 54 Fax +47 22 69 41 30 GSM +47 90 74 27 65 *
Mike Miller
John Roden wrote:
>
> I wave at runners too.
I say "hello" to runners, since they are usually on the same side of the
street as me, and we're facing each other.
/m
pe...@botman.uottawa.ca.delete.to.email.me
>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
If you think roadies are bad, try driving a car. I sometimes drive,
and when I do, I wave at the drivers in all the other cars on the road.
they hardly ever wave back.
Is it unfriendlyness, or is it a cultural thing?
-Pete
--
The following address is not valid: junk...@mudhead.uottawa.ca
It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content
as well as headers.
--
Pete Hickey | | VEIWIT
Communication Services | Pe...@mudhead.uottawa.CA | Makers of transparent
University of Ottawa | | mirrors for
Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5| (613) 562-5800x1008 | dyslexics.
Rob Palachick
are there any races happening? anyone know when L-B-L is?
--
rob palachick
britton management
atropos
In article <timmcn-1704...@dialup-196.minn.net>
tim...@minn.net (Tim McNamara) writes:
>Go to a road bike race. People show up, do their race and go home. They
>pay no attention to the other races, don't cheer anyone else on, and
>function in their own little bubble. They'll drive out the race course
>through another race peloton, even, just t go home because they apparently
>can't weight ten minutes until the course is clear. They yell & holler at
>the neighbors, park blocking their drveways and piss on their lawns.
>
It's nice to know that someone else has noticed this. The first few races
I attended were MTB races, and they were so cool. Everybody was chatting
to everybody else, everybody was cheering everybody on, regardless of what
team they were on, and people seemed to be enjoying themselves in general.
When I started doing road, I was highly disappointed in the atmosphere,
and I'm in the process of trying to sell my road bike because, well, I
really don't like roadies, with the exception of a few of my teammates
(and now that I think about it, the roadies that I like are also MTBers).
I can't even cheer for any friends on my team or any other without
getting rude stares from other spectators. Gee, maybe the reason that
road races are shrinking (and MTB races are growing) in the US is because
MTB races are actually FUN, whereas road races are about as fun and
lively as a funeral. I think my involvement with road racing is going
to be limited to watching Eurosport videos and reading Cycle Sport.
Diane
d...@ukcc.uky.edu
Alan Paxton
So, speaking for myself, it's not so much snobbishness as lack of
interest leading to not paying attention to non-roadies. Other
thoughts out there?
As someone who probably looks like a "roadie" on the road, I have
tended to try and be relatively democratic in my waving/greeting
habits. It also may have something to do with cyclist density. Back
home in Scotland there's few enough of us out that it's not a
problem to acknowledge everyone. By contrast, in some places round
here on a Sunday morning you get very bored of it. I hear tell that
in the days before the Great Car Economy motorists used to
acknowledge one another on their Sunday spin in the country. Don't
see it now though.
--
Alan Paxton (http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/alanpx/)
Mark Mayo
BLAh BLAH BLAH
We have great posts in here about RACING. Yet what post gets 42
responses? A griping post about who waves to who on the road!!!
Says a lot about priorities huh!
So, what the hell, here's my two bits!
If I'm training hard, I won't even see you wave! Offended? sorry!
If I know you and I'm just riding. Hell, I'll turn around and chat!
Let me ask you this. When you drive a car do you flash your
headlights at other "same make cars"? I drive an old BMW and that's
been an ongoing thing between Bmmer (not BEEMER) drivers for 30+
years. Do I get offended if a young guy in a 2002 doesn't flash me
back? No, because I figure that he doesn't know.
GET OVER IT!!!!
Mark on a Merckx
Bob Schwartz
Gary Dickson wrote:
>
> What's a 'Rodie'? Someone who like Dennis Rodman?
Holy Moses! That would go a long way towards explaining
their myriad problems.
Bob Schwartz
bsch...@cray.com
Bob Schwartz
I think something that gets lost in the "us" vs. "them" threads
is the degree that them is us. In our club the percentage of
people with both road and off-road bikes (and who ride each on
the intended surface) is almost %100. Not all of them will
race in each discipline, but just about everyone splits time
between fat and skinny tires.
But don't take my word for it. Check
http://www.usacycling.org/members/membdata.stml, at the
bottom of the page is the numbers for crossover memberships.
For those that don't browse, ~37% of USCF and NORBA license
holders carry cards for both organizations. I, for one, am
not the least little bit surprised by this.
In my mind it is simply not possible for "roadies" to be more
snobbish than "mountain bikers" because roadies ARE mountain
bikers.
The Sierra Club didn't figure out the degree to which "they"
were "us" until they had done considerable damage to their
organization. But we're all smarter than that, eh?
Bob Schwartz
bsch...@cray.com
Bart Blair
<MikePry...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>I have 2 bikes, 1 mountain worth $4000, 1 road worth about $3300. I
>wave or gesture to every cyclist I see, regardless of
>equipment/experiance, and guess what I have found. There are more
>asshole MTBers then there are roadies. I am real sick of the elitest
>beginer/sport racer attitude that is rampent among the MTB community.
>I am also sick of hearing that roadies suck/ BMXers suck. Anybody
>that has to be Mr. attitude is doing so because he sucks so bad that
>he has to make up for it by being a hard ass.
WOW, I bought my '91 probe for $4000 last spring just so I could afford
to keep riding/racing! I don't know what the amount of money spent has
to do w/ attitudes. Here is my take. Typically people with bad
attitudes in life in general carry this attitude with them into
whatever they do.
By the way, I have seen Assholes on Huffys AND $4000 bikes, I dont
think there is any correlation! Also, I have met as many ignorant
Experts as I have Beginner and Sport racers.
I play Volleyball, Ski, Windsurf, MTB, H20 Ski and the people who are
assholes in any of those sports are invariably assholes in life!
Just My Not So Humble Opinion!
Ride on, ignore the assholes and enjoy those of us who aren't,
Bartman
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <stevens-1704...@bikiebob.vip.best.com>,
Steven L. Sheffield <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote:
>At the Pine Flat RR, this year, I was way off the back when I got
>passed by the Masters 45+ riders (who also had another Senior 5
>tagging along with). A little further up the road (and up the
>major climb), I saw the Senior 5 sitting on the side of the road,
>bonking hard ... I stopped, gave him a PowerGel, and made sure he
>was okay before heading on my way.
And I've seen that look in people's eyes when they are about to
bonk and just handed them a Gu in the middle of a race that I
finished so far back in that the sag wagon beat me in.
Saying that MTB riders are more friendly is just uninformed garbage.
Bart Blair
In <5j5nb7$a...@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com (Bruce
Hildenbrand) writes:
>Yup! There is enough snobbiness in both the road and MTB community,
please
>don't go singling out one group or the other they are equally bad.
And as
>one poster pointed out, the snobbiness seems to be inversly
proportional
>to ability.
>
>Bruce Hildenbrand
Bruce, I would have to disagree with that assessment. I suck and my
wife hates riding with me because I am always stopping to talk to
people!!! Maybe she is just mad because I have enough breath to stop
and talk while I am waiting for her to catch up!!!
"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"
Bartman
Dave Blake
bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com says...
>
>fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu (Chris Fischer) writes:
>>Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
>>admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
>>races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
>>rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
>>almost shocking.
>
>This is pretty easily explained by the difference between MTB races and
>road races.
>
>MTB races are basically individual time trials. There is no pack, you can't
>get "dropped". When an MTB racer tells me how they have done, they usually
>say something like "I got 18th". What they don't say is that they were
>20 minutes back of the winner in a 2 hour race.
...
>
>There are other differences that follow from the differing formats,
>but Seinfeld is on.
It is a rerun.
Besides, MTB racers are still much more friendly during the
race than roadies are during an individual time trial. Can
you actually say that you have competed in both formats
and found the riders to be equally friendly ? Even in
a road TT and a regular MTB race ?
I think the pack mentality affects who chooses to race
on the road. Not too many people are excited about
road racing themselves when they see roadies in action.
On off-road group rides, we never shell someone out
the back and leave them to ride home alone. Never.
It does not happen. If someone breaks down, the entire
ride stops while the bike gets fixed.
If someone falls and gets hurt in an MTB race, the
next rider stops to help the person (sacrificing his
race) and the second rider goes for the nearest
course marshall - even if that means going backwards
against the course. You have to do this when you are
miles from the nearest road.
I have given other racers my tools, my spare tube,
my food, and my water at one time or another - and
these are not my teammates or even people I know.
In some cases they have come back to beat me.
There is a difference between off and on road racers.
It may stem from the race formats,
but it goes far deeper than comparably friendly riders
competing in different ways. The race format affects
who chooses to race on and off-road.
--
Dave Blake
dbl...@phy.ucsf.edu
http://www.keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <stevens-1704...@bikiebob.vip.best.com>,
Steven L. Sheffield <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote:
>No, it's not because you are on a mountain bike. Besides, some of
>the snottiest people I know are mountain bikers. If you don't have
>the hottest new CNC-machined piece of unproven technology, then you
>ain't worth shit, is an attitude prevalent with both roadies and
>mountain bikers (but there's a lot more CNC-machined crap for MTBs
>than for road bikes).
Written by Steven (Vote me in as the new Jobst) Sheffield. :-)
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <lkb128.72...@psu.edu>, Lyle Beidler <lkb...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
>I also find it rude when I'm road riding and am passed by a car that obviously
>belongs to a bikie (ie it has bikes on the roof or Mavic and Rock Shox
>stickers on the rear bumper) and I wave and they don't wave back.
If all of your life revolves about being part of a group and being
recognized as such, I suppose this is is a life threatening problem.
>One time I was riding, and was passed by a red Jetta with big stickers in the
>back that said "Main Street Bikes" (Lititz, Pa) and I waved to him and he
>didn't wave back. I never went back to that shop again, even in it's new
>incarnation.
To hell with good prices and good service and friendly advice. I didn't
get my wave.
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <5j6rhi$78t$1...@nuke.csu.net>,
George R Crawford <gcra...@omicron.csustan.edu> wrote:
>
> But I drive a '70 VW Campervan and everyone waves a me first.
Not to put too fine a point on it Crawdad, but it ain't a wave
if it only has one finger.
Jack Dingler
Roger Marquis wrote:
>
> I always wonder about posters like this, apparently intent on putting
> other cyclist(s) down. Perhaps they see themselves as superior for
> waving? In both cases the elitism is clear.
Feeling superior, no. But in the case I mentioned in my previous post.
The rider was setting up his bike, wasn't riding and made an obvious
effort to ignore and snub me as I passed slowly wishing him a good
morning. I felt insulted. I do realize that it's only my southern
upbringing that makes me feel that way. He had probably moved from a
part of the country where rude behaviour is expected of people.
I do apologize, if I've insulted someone by making that post or this
one. That wasn't my intention. If the CDA passes, I'll be sure to quit
posting anything that might offend you Roger.
--
* Jack Dingler * Bill Clinton, has never, does not,
* jdin...@onramp.net * and will never, have any knowledge
* Probably not * of any WhiteHouse activities.
* your opinion * Isn't it obvious?
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <01bc4bc3$c09aaf00$26aa8e8c@greg>,
Someone <som...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>Roger is one of the "elite" few who make no typos.
Better a typo than whining about not being waved at. For crying out
loud, has anyone stopped to think what they are writing?
Exactly what possess someone that needs that kind of recognician?
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <5j60lm$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Michael P. Riley <ril...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
>A view from a collegiate racer:
>
>In 3 years of racing in the collegiate Eastern Conference, I have found
>the other riders to be very friendly and approachable. I have met and
>made friends with many of the riders I compete against in collegiate races.
What? If you were to believe the comments here you can't make
friends amoungst roadies.
>I've even seen examples of riders from different teams encouraging each
>other to latch back on the the field after coming off the back on climbs
>or sharing tips on how to stay warm during cold and wet races.
THis happens at the very highest levels with riders on different pro
teams helping each other along. Remember a few years back when a stage
of the Tour was won by some lesser light of the peloton and he
said that the reason that he was still racing was because Greg LeMond
had encouraged him all the time in the group.
>Food and water are readily shared.
Even in the Tour and in the Giro or in LBL you can see Pros passing
the water bottles back and forth.
>Despite (or maybe due to?) the comaraderie, the competition in the Eastern
>Conference is very intense and the racing is a hell of a lot of fun.
But if you a knocking people about in the group and acting like a putz
you aren't going to see much of that friendliness.
Rob Hult
George R Crawford wrote:
>
> Any VW owners out there? I've had my westy for about 6 months and get
> more waves from other VW owners (especially westy owners). Does this
> happen everywhere? I sure hope so.
>
> Crawdad
I used to own a 1974 Jeep CJ5 and the waving thing was common among Jeep
owners. I always thought it was cool. Then there was a big discussion
about whether it was okay to wave to owners of the "new" Wranglers.
They weren't like the CJ's, so were they worthy of a wave? The whole
thing was hilarious.
As a general rule, the older your jeep, the more worthy you were of a
wave. For instance, if you were the proud owner of a 40's CJ2A, then,
heck, you were practically worthy of a salute!
-ROb
Rob Hult
I know what you mean, but to me it is not a big deal.
I race semi-pro, poseur-pro as I call it :^) for Fat City Cycles
off-road. I ride a lot on the road on both my road bike, 'cross bike,
and even on my mtb with slicks.
I almost always wave to cyclists, runners, walkers, etc. And you know,
if I am having a great day, I let people know it, I mean, I am real
friendly. I don't even care about their response, I do it for myself.
Yet, other times I may be having a bad day, and yes, I sometimes ignore
people. Is it intentional or not? I don't even know. I don't mean
anything by it. Sometimes I am just zoning. I know I talked to a guy
who hates waving to people because he likes to be in his "own world"
when he rides. Whatever, but it's his choice. Other times I may be
flying up a climb and let me tell you, the last thing on my mind is
waving to someone, you know when you can feel the lactic acid in your
teeth? (I love that saying!)
I used to compete in alpine ski racing and "elite" attitudes were common
there also. It bothered me a lot back then. Man, was I mad. How dare
people act so selfish. I didn't get it. I also wasn't very fast, so I
felt like I didn't have the right to criticize. Weird, but that's how
people react sometimes. Anyways, my point is that I learned to live
with it. And you know what, attitude has nothing to do with how fast
you are.
I just laugh at some of the racer attitudes I see. Some people think
they are so hot sh&&, and yet there are so many levels of this sport
that no one is hot sh%&. I don't care if you are the best racer in the
U.S. Go to Europe and get your ass handed to you. You see my point?
I respect racers for their results and their character. Fast racers
have always intrigued me - regardless of their attitude. I mean, it is
just impressive to see a great performance. Now a racer that can act
like a gentleman, and win, that is something really special.
-ROb
Mike
Chuck Connell wrote:
: As a former roadie, you are right, most road racers are snobs. If your
: clothing is not cool and your bike not worth thousands, things get
: worse.
: I loved the sport during the years that I did it (and made some good
: friends) but I got tired of many racers. Actually, snobishness was not
: the worst sin. What really bugged me was riders who would put me in the
: hospital to gain a slight advantage in a race.
: Chuck
And off the road, you can get crap if your clothing is cool (roadie-ish)
and your bike IS worth thousands.
Face it. The more people that do something, the more wannabies, losers,
and envious jerks there are. Look at climbing in the last 10 years.
I'll agree on the talent/friendliness thing. The most gifted, hard working
riders I know are also the nicest and most willing to help you out or hang
back if you get dropped on a fun ride.
Mountain biking isn't a nice little hobby/sport followed by a small crowd
of genuine people anymore. That's sad, but true. Good people still exist,
I think, but we just have to bring them out of hiding with a little
courtesy.
#############################################################################
Mike Johnson - CSM Dept of Metallurgical and Materials Eng - Golden CO
Ph: 303-273-3640 Fax: 303-273-3795 http://acsel.mines.edu
#############################################################################
Bruce Hildenbrand
In article <5j7uju$m...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> dbl...@phy.ucsf.eduDELETETHISPART (Dave Blake) writes:
>bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com says...
>>
>>fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu (Chris Fischer) writes:
>
>>>Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
>>>admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
>>>races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
>>>rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
>>>almost shocking.
>>
>>This is pretty easily explained by the difference between MTB races and
>>road races.
>>
>>MTB races are basically individual time trials. There is no pack, you can't
>>get "dropped". When an MTB racer tells me how they have done, they usually
>>say something like "I got 18th". What they don't say is that they were
>>20 minutes back of the winner in a 2 hour race.
>...
>>
>>There are other differences that follow from the differing formats,
>>but Seinfeld is on.
>
>It is a rerun.
See, there is one of your big problems. You just *assume* that I saw
the episode when it first ran. It is this kind of jumping to conclusion
which creates the problems we are discussing here.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Lyle Beidler
>In article <lkb128.72...@psu.edu>, Lyle Beidler <lkb...@psu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I also find it rude when I'm road riding and am passed by a car that obviously
>>belongs to a bikie (ie it has bikes on the roof or Mavic and Rock Shox
>>stickers on the rear bumper) and I wave and they don't wave back.
>If all of your life revolves about being part of a group and being
>recognized as such, I suppose this is is a life threatening problem.
No, it's just rude, as others have pointed out.
>>One time I was riding, and was passed by a red Jetta with big stickers in
the
>>back that said "Main Street Bikes" (Lititz, Pa) and I waved to him and
he
>>didn't wave back. I never went back to that shop again, even in it's new
>>incarnation.
>To hell with good prices and good service and friendly advice. I didn't
>get my wave.
The shop didn't have the other three either...
Lyle Beidler Pennsylvanian by birth, Nittany Lion by the grace of God
lkb...@psu.edu http://www.personal.psu.edu/lkb128/
"I may be weird, but you can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant" -Unknown
"And then it's Ollie, Ollie oxen free; bad aim for a control pitcher" - Keith Olberman
"I don't really care if they label me a Jesus Freak
Cause there ain't no disguising the Truth." -DC Talk, "Jesus Freak"
Lyle Beidler
>>Food and water are readily shared.
>Even in the Tour and in the Giro or in LBL you can see Pros passing
>the water bottles back and forth.
ever see that in a local USCF race?
NOt often.
Dave Hayes
> and I'm in the process of trying to sell my road bike because, well, I
> really don't like roadies, with the exception of a few of my teammates
> (and now that I think about it, the roadies that I like are also MTBers).
> I can't even cheer for any friends on my team or any other without
> getting rude stares from other spectators. Gee, maybe the reason that
> road races are shrinking (and MTB races are growing) in the US is because
> MTB races are actually FUN, whereas road races are about as fun and
> lively as a funeral.
That's too bad. Sounds like it could be a regional thing. Road races are
much more social out here in Oregon than you describe. Get dirty looks for
cheering? My wife has been engaged in friendly conversations with fellow
spectators _because_ she was shouting encouragement to me and others.
Road racing may well be approached more seriously than MTB racing (I've
never been to an MTB race, so I can't compare). But I _like_ competing
against riders who take the competition seriously. Makes whatever result I
can achieve that much more valuable. Doesn't mean we can't socialize and
encourage each other--we do. At least where I live. And, come to think of
it, in the Midwest where I lived and raced before I moved here.
As to the original question... some road riders wave, some don't. But
that's life. Some people are social, some people aren't. I think that
someone else gave a very plausible reason why MTB riders are more likely
to exchange greetings when they meet on the trail: they pass much closer
to each other and at a lower speed. I think there's also an element of
meeting a fellow adventurer. Betcha a roadie you encounter a _long_ way
from the nearest burg will be more likely to wave.
BTW, out here, "rodies" is often used as a short form for "Rhododendrons,"
which are quite common and appreciated out here. [Yes, it should be
"Rhodies."] The problem with the Rodies at our last rental was that they
just didn't get enough sunshine to bloom. :-)
Dave Hayes
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Do NOT make the mistake of assuming that the ideas
or opinions expressed here are even remotely similar
to the ideas or opinions of my employer.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
(to email me, replace "no_spam" with "david.m.hayes")
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <lkb128.74...@psu.edu>, Lyle Beidler <lkb...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
>No, it's just rude, as others have pointed out.
And if there is one thing in life that is really important it's living
a life where no one is rude.
>The shop didn't have the other three either...
SO, you'd go to a shop with lousy service, bad prices and poor
advice just because someone there recognized you and waved?
The idea here is to get a little perspective. Waving? Give me
a break. I don't know you, why should I act friendly to you?
Thomas H. Kunich
>>the water bottles back and forth.
>
>ever see that in a local USCF race?
>
>NOt often.
I guess you haven't been in the laughing group on a long race.
It isn't necessaryu all that often in a little local race.
Joe Cipale
Bruce Hildenbrand wrote:
>
snip...snip...snip
>
> There are other differences that follow from the differing formats,
> but Seinfeld is on.
>
> Bruce Hildenbrand
Bruce,
Glad to see you have the right perspective on this issue! :-^)
Joe Cipale
George R Crawford
In article <5j7jfe$l...@mercury.cc.uottawa.ca> pe...@botman.uottawa.ca.DELETE.TO.EMAIL.ME () writes:
>In article <335623...@writeme.com>, Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> wrote:
>>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>>(I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
>>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>>
>
>If you think roadies are bad, try driving a car. I sometimes drive,
>and when I do, I wave at the drivers in all the other cars on the road.
>they hardly ever wave back.
>
>Is it unfriendlyness, or is it a cultural thing?
As I've mentioned before, you're probablly driving the wrong car. I drive
an old VW and get waves all the time. Another VW owner parked next to me
at the grocery store and we talked about our cars. Never happens when I
drive my wifes escort though.
Crawdad
>
>-Pete
>--
> The following address is not valid: junk...@mudhead.uottawa.ca
> It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content
> as well as headers.
>
>--
>Pete Hickey | | VEIWIT
>Communication Services | Pe...@mudhead.uottawa.CA | Makers of transparent
>University of Ottawa | | mirrors for
>Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5| (613) 562-5800x1008 | dyslexics.
Bruce Hildenbrand
In article <5j7uju$m...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> dbl...@phy.ucsf.eduDELETETHISPART (Dave Blake) writes:
>bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com says...
>>
>>fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu (Chris Fischer) writes:
>
>>>Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
>>>admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
>>>races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
>>>rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
>>>almost shocking.
>>
>>This is pretty easily explained by the difference between MTB races and
>>road races.
>>
>>MTB races are basically individual time trials. There is no pack, you can't
>>get "dropped". When an MTB racer tells me how they have done, they usually
>>say something like "I got 18th". What they don't say is that they were
>>20 minutes back of the winner in a 2 hour race.
>...
>>
>>but Seinfeld is on.
>
>
>
>Besides, MTB racers are still much more friendly during the
>race than roadies are during an individual time trial. Can
>you actually say that you have competed in both formats
>and found the riders to be equally friendly ? Even in
>a road TT and a regular MTB race ?
This is not a valid comparison. But, more to the point,
I have never done an MTB race, but in the USCF road racing
I did, my competitors were so friendly to me that I saw
no reason to be upset at the "lack of friendliness".
If everybody was friendly, there is no comparison to make.
>I think the pack mentality affects who chooses to race
>on the road. Not too many people are excited about
>road racing themselves when they see roadies in action.
>On off-road group rides, we never shell someone out
>the back and leave them to ride home alone. Never.
>It does not happen. If someone breaks down, the entire
>ride stops while the bike gets fixed.
This happens in the group road rides I participate in.
As I have said before, you have to pick your mates, it
sounds like some of you have had trouble doing this
on the road.
>If someone falls and gets hurt in an MTB race, the
>next rider stops to help the person (sacrificing his
>race) and the second rider goes for the nearest
>course marshall - even if that means going backwards
>against the course. You have to do this when you are
>miles from the nearest road.
And I have seen road riders sacrifice their race to stop
and help an injured rider. Remember the James Lillard
story in last year's VeloNews.
>I have given other racers my tools, my spare tube,
>my food, and my water at one time or another - and
>these are not my teammates or even people I know.
>In some cases they have come back to beat me.
And in road racers, I have given racers who were competing
against me and had a higher placing on GC my *bike*.
>There is a difference between off and on road racers.
>It may stem from the race formats,
>but it goes far deeper than comparably friendly riders
>competing in different ways. The race format affects
>who chooses to race on and off-road.
It has been my experience that there is *not* a difference
between off and on-road racers. I just think that those
who keep painting road racers in a bad light are just not
hanging out with the right people.
Bruce Hildenbrand
Jack Dingler
Thomas H. Kunich wrote:
>
<snip>
> a break. I don't know you, why should I act friendly to you?
Waving, nod of the head, etc... Who cares, why be civil to anybody?
Total egoism and selfishness hasn't ever gone out of style. Crap on
everybody. That's the extreme we should work toward.....
Oops, sorry Thomas. But seriously, why not? I know it's cool to treat
strangers like sh*t. Everybody does it. It's social type/crowd/herd
phenomenom. But why be a jerk like everybody else?
In my lifetime, I've seen a lot of jerk type behaviour. Especially from
auto drivers. I've even seen a few deaths caused by it. Granted, it's
unlikely that a cyclist will die just because someone is rude. But why
be unfriendly to someone just because they are a stranger? What's the
point?
Again, I know it's just my southern upbringing. I won't lose sleep over
the issue, or quit riding. I don't care that much. But it does lower
my opinion of that person. When I've encountered some of the same
people in more social situations (after they've treated me with
disrespect as a stranger), I have some trouble getting passed thinking,
"This person is a jerk. Just an *ssH*l* looking for trouble. when can I
ditch him. etc...".
I do understand, that there are situations where a cyclist is just too
focused to respond or even notice. I have no problem with that. But
for those that simply enjoy being an *ssH*l*, I simply can't summon any
respect for.
Last, point... It's not all roadies, it's not only roadies. Just
enough to give us a bad rap.
BC Holicky
>
> I'm Bruce and I would just like to correct the attribution and say that
> my comment was "Snobiness is inversely proportional to talent". The
> corrolary is "Friendliness is proportional to talent".
>
> Also, it has been my experience that this applies to roadies and MTB'ers
> equally.
>
> Bruce Hildenbrand
I've always felt that snobiness is directly proportional to the cost of
the jersey. Not the bike, shoes, shorts, etc, but the jersey. There is
probably an inverse relationship between price paid for the jersey and
talent also, but it is less exact.
just a thought
BC Holicky,
Boulder, CO
TheVeloDog
If you're burned out on attitude, try cyclo-cross sometime. Fun sport,
friendly people, and nobody will try to shoulder you into a trash can (or
a tree) just for giggles.
Patrick O'Grady
Bog Trotters Society for the Advancement of Cyclo-cross
Jenifer Beaty
lucien mc fadden wrote:
>
> oK..SO YOUR RIGHT...We roadies are SNOBS...all of us, each and every
> one of us. We ride all day, train all the time, look good in our
> flashy colors, our $5000. Colnago's with Campy Record.....our Briko's
> sitting ever so cool on our noses, our well shaved and oiled legs.
> So...yup..if you dont look like a Euro- Pro and god forbide ride a
> bike that has down tube shifters...Stay off my wheel. And if you get
> in my way at a race, I will hook you into an early retirement. Dont
> you know...I am the next TDF winner...so step aside, let the reporters
> from Le'Equipe in and forgive my snobby, rudeness....but....ahhhhh..I
> cant talk to you lesser riders anymore.
> (Sarcasm)
> On 18 Apr 1997 17:31:38 GMT, mjoh...@moran.Mines.EDU (Mike) wrote:
Thanks for the tip.
Benjamin Goldberg
For me (a roadie), whether I wave or not depends on where I am. If
I'm far out in the country and I come across a cyclist, I'll almost
always wave or nod and smile. However, when I'm riding the standard
cycling route out of New York City, Route 9W going along the Hudson,
waving at every passing cyclist would mean that I'd be waving every
thirty seconds. On a nice weekend, I'll see several hundred cyclists
going the other way. At some point, waving just gets silly.
In Central Park (on the loop), though, pretty much nobody
waves. Mostly, it's because almost everybody is going the same
direction, so waving doesn't seem appropriate. If there's a guy going
the other way, he's probably doing something dangerous so you don't
wave to him.
-Ben
--
Dept. of Computer Science (212) 998-3495
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences Fax: (212) 995-4123
New York University __@
251 Mercer Street _-\<,
New York, NY 10012 (*)/(*)
email: gold...@cs.nyu.edu
www: http://cs.nyu.edu/cs/faculty/goldberg/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
David Casseres
In article <01bc4b8f$79c08d40$5ca192cf@prybellville>, "Mike Prybell"
<MikePry...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> .... Lighten up, it's just bikes, not brain surgery.
Got that right.
But seriously, folks, why are podestrians so snobby? When I walk along
the sidewalk I wave to everyone I sea, and most of them just try to
pretend they didn't see me. Some of them cross the streat to avoid me.
And when I ride my (rode) bike, and wave to everything that moves, not to
mention wiggling my eyebrows and making funny mouth noises, not more than
10% of anybody waves back -- but the podestrians are the worst! Is it
some kind of ellitest thing because I'm not wearing Teva sandals?
--
Cheers,
David
Mike Prybell
This thread is hillarious!!! A driver of a car dosn't wave to you????
How do you know he even saw you wave ?? Let's get a little real here. If
someone doesn't wave to me I certainly don't go completly off the deep end.
I highly doubt that every ride that you go on, especially if you are
upset, pissed off etc,that you wave to everybody you see. Unless you are a
robot that has no feelings. It's called having a bad day, ever think of
that? I try to wave to everybody I see. But I don't have a 100% average
on waving, do you??
This is the way humanity is , if you can't handle being acknowledged, by
anything less then 100% of everybody you see , then you might as well
become an isolationist.-
- >=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=
Mike
mikepry...@worldnet.att.net
"A trail is a terrible thing to waste....... Hammer On."
<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=
Bret Wade
Alan Paxton (pax...@iei.pi.cnr.it) wrote:
: In article <3356fd71...@newshost.uwo.ca> pked...@sms.ivey.uwo.ca (Paul Kedrosky) writes:
: So, speaking for myself, it's not so much snobbishness as lack of
: interest leading to not paying attention to non-roadies. Other
: thoughts out there?
: As someone who probably looks like a "roadie" on the road, I have
: tended to try and be relatively democratic in my waving/greeting
: habits. It also may have something to do with cyclist density. Back
: home in Scotland there's few enough of us out that it's not a
: problem to acknowledge everyone. By contrast, in some places round
: here on a Sunday morning you get very bored of it. I hear tell that
: in the days before the Great Car Economy motorists used to
: acknowledge one another on their Sunday spin in the country. Don't
: see it now though.
: --
: Alan Paxton (http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/alanpx/)
I agree that it has a lot to do with the density of the cycling population.
There is a threshold where the attitude changes. At low densities there is
a "we're all in this together attitude". At higher densities, some people
seem to feel a need to establish a pecking order.
I experienced this as a racer when I moved from Western New York to Boulder.
I also experienced this as a cross-country tourist. In 1981, I toured solo
East to West. I picked my own route though the Northeast because I new the
area well, then rode the Bikecentenial trail when I got out West. Before
I reached the trail, it was so rare to see another bike tourist that we
would usually stop and chat. Once I got on the trail, I found that many
of the other tourists wouldn't even acknowedge my wave. I remember being
really shocked by this.
That said, it's also true that it's very easy to miss the response. On
several occasions, I've complained to my wife about someone not waving back,
only to have her insist that they had.
BTW, when I drove a Saab 99 in the mid 70's it was very common to have
other Saab drivers flash there lights at me. The car was rare enough
and eccentric enough that we felt a common bond. Or was it a sense of
shared suffering?
Bret Wade
Boulder, CO
Steven L. Sheffield
> I've always felt that snobiness is directly proportional to the cost of
> the jersey. Not the bike, shoes, shorts, etc, but the jersey. There is
> probably an inverse relationship between price paid for the jersey and
> talent also, but it is less exact.
Ah, so I'm a bigger snob when I wear my $80 Swobo wool jersey, then
when I wear my $40 Super U jersey, or the $30 Motorola jersey, right?
But I'm a poseur snob when I wear the team jerseys ... so basically
I can't win either way.
Good logic.
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Steven L. Sheffield (BOB #1765/IBOB #3) Disclaimer? What's that? |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| E-mail: ste...@veloworks.com / ste...@winterland.com |
| WWW: http://www.veloworks.com/rivendell/ |
| Voice: +1 415 296-9893 / Fax: +1 415 597-9849 / Ride yer bike! |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
VoiD
On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Daryl Spano wrote:
> (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>
That's funny. I find it's the other way around.
kyle
Jason E. Knight
Excerpts from netnews.rec.bicycles.racing: 17-Apr-97 Re: What is the
problem wit.. by Steven L. Sheffield@velo
> Do you wave at everyone driving the same kind of car you do? Do
> pedestrians wave at every other pedestrian? Do bus riders wave
> at ever other bus rider? No! Why should I wave at every other
> cyclist?
I guess growing up in Eastern Iowa spoiled me. On back roads in the
cornfields the majority of _motorists_ wave (hell, motorists wave to one
another there!) to cyclists. Crossing paths with cyclists usually
involved vocalizing as well as a wave.
In Pittsburgh I've gotten the cold shoulder from both mountain
bikers and roadies. Shiny baubles and snobbiness seem to go together.
but the coldest shoulders I've gotten have been from organ donors riding
to the crits with their helmets on their handlebars. Poetic justice, I
guess.
jason knight
jason knight
jk...@andrew.cmu.edu
ak...@cmu.edu
***********************************************************************
Linguistics.Cycling.DIYaudio.Linux/MkLinux.Schizophrenia.Schizophrenia.
Gregory Spath
In <E8sns...@boss.cs.ohiou.edu>, fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu (Chris Fischer) writes:
>In article <335623...@writeme.com>, Daryl Spano <d...@writeme.com> wrote:
>>six months. Since, I am a relative newbie to the sport, I may be a
>>little naive, but I have a practice of waving at every bike rider I see.
>>people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
>>(only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
>>
>>riders. Someone PLEASE tell me it is not jutified.
>>
>>Is it because I am riding a mountain bike? What is the deal?
>>
>>If this attitude is common in other areas, it seems that it only brings
>>down the sport. Please do not flame me, my desire is that all biking
>>gain in popularity.
>>
>>--
>>
>>Daryl Spano
>>d...@writeme.com
>
>Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have to
>admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier during
>races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help another
>rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
>almost shocking.
>
>
If it's a NORBA event, it is a RULE to help an injured rider. If you blow by
without offering assistance, I believe you can be disqualified. This is from
memory...i may be wrong :)
You should not, however, help with equipment...it's also a rule you must be
self-sufficient...one rider...one bike. I love mountainbiking b/c it gives EVERYONE
the same opportunity to do well in a race.
_____________
my apologies for having to post with a fictitious
email address to avoid the spammers plaguing the
net. To send me email, simply delete NOSPAM from
my reply-to address.
__________________________________________________
Greg Spath (Wease on IRC) | SKYDIVING
gsp...@epix.net | MOUNTAINBIKING
http://www.epix.net/~gspath | OS/2 and IRC
--------------------------------------------------
Gregory Spath
In <5j832g$5...@sjx-ixn11.ix.netcom.com>, b_b...@ix.netcom.com(Bart Blair) writes:
> <MikePry...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
>I play Volleyball, Ski, Windsurf, MTB, H20 Ski and the people who are
>assholes in any of those sports are invariably assholes in life!
>
>Just My Not So Humble Opinion!
>
>Ride on, ignore the assholes and enjoy those of us who aren't,
>
>Bartman
I can't agree more. This surfaces a LOT in skydiving. Skydivers tend to
be an elitist group...not talking to non skydiver 'whuffos' But those who
act that way, are the ones I don't associate with anyway. I had to give
up jumping for this year so I can focus more on cycling...I chose cycling
mostly because there are more good natured MTBikers than Skydivers.
..glad I didn't buy my rig yet :) Now I might be able to get another bike :)
lucien mc fadden
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <E8sns...@boss.cs.ohiou.edu> fis...@falcons.ent.ohiou.edu (Chris
Fischer) writes:
>Being primarily a roadie who does maybe 1-2 MTB races a year, I have
to
>admit that MTBers, at least in sport class, are *much* friendlier
during
>races than roadies. I can't imagine a road rider stoping to help
another
>rider mid race. I've seen it happen several times in MTB races. It's
>almost shocking.
>
From my limited understanding of mountain bike races, if you stop for a
minute to help someone, that'll cost you about a minute. If you stop
for a minute in a road race, when you're in the field, it'll cost you
tons more time because you won't be drafting.
I've been in road races off the back in small groups where someon'e had
a problem and other guys stopped. And didn't Bugno stop to help some
Philippine rider at the Tour of Malaysia earlier this year?
JT
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <3357A3...@xtraonline.com> Jack Dingler <ja...@xtraonline.com>
writes:
> He had probably moved from a
>part of the country where rude behaviour is expected of people.
I don't like what that guy did, and it would annoy me too, but if he is
truly from a place where that is the way people behave, then in his
mind and context it is not rude.
JT
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <tomkE8u...@netcom.com> to...@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
writes:
Yeah, I remember being way off the back in a 4 and a half hour race,
with bad support, with some other guy a few years ago. The course was
five or six laps of some big circuit, and we stopped at the guy's car
to load up on water and stuff on the penultimate lap. Pretty nice guy.
JT
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <5j77ak$i...@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> bhi...@stelvio.eng.sun.com (Bruce
Hildenbrand) writes:
>
>In article <5j6uo3$grp$1...@enyo.uwa.edu.au> mi...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
(Michael Owen) writes:
>>Also Bruce is exactly right when he says for roadies
>>that friendliness is inversely proportional to talent.
>
>I'm Bruce and I would just like to correct the attribution and say
that
>my comment was "Snobiness is inversely proportional to talent". The
>corrolary is "Friendliness is proportional to talent".
>
>Also, it has been my experience that this applies to roadies and
MTB'ers
>equally.
>
Whoa, I'm not sure I like those "rules" Bruce. While it may be true
that lots of great cyclists are nice guys, do you also mean that there
aren't nice beginners or hobby cyclists (like me) out there? I hope
not. I'm kind of reminded of all those Maynard Hershon articles a year
or too ago, about how this pro is so nice, and that pro is so mellow,
while all the masters riders and cat III's and such are way too
uptight. I just don't buy that.
JT
Bruce Hildenbrand
John makes a good point about generalizations. I certainly don't mean
to say that this apples to all bike riders. I meant that this seems to
apply to serious racers in both MTB and road. It has been my experience
that those who are ambitious to advance and are grovelling at the lower
categories are not very friendly (i.e. they tend to be snobby). The
racers who have made it do not have anything to prove, especially to
somebody who clearly is not as talented as they are, hence they are much
more friendly.
Bruce Hildenbrand
ps - I blame the attitudes of bike racing clubs for a lot of this attitude.
Instead of nurturing new racers and helping them build confidence by offering
encouraging words and support, the veteran members of the club can't stand
to see anybody improve and come close to their level. Hence, every ride
turns into a race with the young riders trying to gain some respect and
the old veterans unable to let them have it. Ah, egos, especially for
something that is just a hobby?!?!
Dan
Thomas H. Kunich wrote:
> I don't know you, why should I act friendly to you?
Well, at least you're honest. You have a bad attitude, but you're
honest.
Paul Tomlinson
In article <5j7uju$m...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>, Dave Blake <dbl...@phy.ucsf.ed
uDELETETHISPART> writes
>
snip
>I think the pack mentality affects who chooses to race
>on the road. Not too many people are excited about
>road racing themselves when they see roadies in action.
>On off-road group rides, we never shell someone out
>the back and leave them to ride home alone. Never.
>It does not happen. If someone breaks down, the entire
>ride stops while the bike gets fixed.
>There is a difference between off and on road racers.
>It may stem from the race formats,
>but it goes far deeper than comparably friendly riders
>competing in different ways. The race format affects
>who chooses to race on and off-road.
>
>
I find that I'm in a different state of mind when I cycle on road
compared to off-road. On road - certainly it's going to be fun, good
scenery (lucky to live in Scotland), a good work out, some great
descents etc. etc. but I'm a bit tense, after all there are going to be
four wheeled monsters out there some of them maybe not too friendly.
As if a reminder were needed just the other day a highly sucessful local
racer was knocked off her bike and seriously injured on a route which is
my favourite training run, that low sun=>dazzeled driver scenario,
shivver. And I always felt road racing was far more dangerous than MTB
as well; some of those pile ups at the final sprint were just crazy (fun
too). All contribute to me being in a defensive perhaps more introverted
frame of mind when on road.
Too steal a quote from mcrad...@aol.com (MCRadomski) from elsewhere in
this thread (sorry if this is a breach of nettiquete)
>>'When I don't wave, it's because I'm working really hard and probably
>> suffering.'
That is so true.
Off-road I'm far more relaxed, the only thing that's going to hurt me is
me. It's just more condusive to sociable riding, with a proviso of 'for
the type of riding I do'.
Yeah, I'll admit it I'll appear more sociable when I'm on my mountain
bike.
--
Paul Tomlinson
Aberdeen
John Forrest Tomlinson
In <no_spam-1804...@kaydurham.bv.tek.com> no_...@tek.com
(Dave Hayes) writes:
>
>In article <17B547D2...@ukcc.uky.edu>, D...@ukcc.uky.edu (atropos)
wrote:
>
>> and I'm in the process of trying to sell my road bike because, well,
I
>> really don't like roadies, with the exception of a few of my
teammates
>> (and now that I think about it, the roadies that I like are also
MTBers).
>> I can't even cheer for any friends on my team or any other without
>> getting rude stares from other spectators. Gee, maybe the reason
that
>> road races are shrinking (and MTB races are growing) in the US is
because
>> MTB races are actually FUN, whereas road races are about as fun and
>> lively as a funeral.
>
>That's too bad. Sounds like it could be a regional thing. Road races
are
>much more social out here in Oregon than you describe. Get dirty looks
for
>cheering?
Actually I've given some of my best friends very dirty looks for
cheering. I remember some crit I was suffering at the back in for lap
after lap, and a woman fried of mine would yell "hang in there!" every
single lap. I wanted to kill her at the time....For some reason I
can't handle people cheering when things are going badly.
Of course when they're going well having people yell is the greatest...
JT
Matt O'Toole
Dave Hayes <no_...@tek.com> wrote in article
<no_spam-1804...@kaydurham.bv.tek.com>...
> Road racing may well be approached more seriously than MTB racing (I've
> never been to an MTB race, so I can't compare). But I _like_ competing
> against riders who take the competition seriously. Makes whatever result
I
> can achieve that much more valuable. Doesn't mean we can't socialize and
> encourage each other--we do. At least where I live. And, come to think of
> it, in the Midwest where I lived and raced before I moved here.
I agree. I enjoy serious competition too. However, there is no reason why
even very serious competitors can't be completely friendly with one
another. I've found my competitors to be friendly in every other sport
I've engaged in (except maybe soccer!)*. Off the "field," there was always
great kinship and gentlemanly comraderie.
If there's one element prevalent in cycling, that's not as common in other
sports, it's the element of extreme narcissism. You see it in the parading
and preening before an event, the look-at-me posturing, the very
unnecessarily expensive bikes, the designer lycra outfits, and the $100
molded plastic sunglasses. It's not surprising that a snotty attitude
should come along with all this. What else should we expect from men who
shave their legs?
Call me old fashioned, but all this strikes me as very ungentlemanly, and
not conducive to "gentlemanly comraderie." Gentlemen do not attract
attention to themselves. Gentlemen do not affect an air of importance.
Gentlemen do not make others feel uncomfortable with dirty looks and
annoyed stares. A gentleman always makes others feel at ease, by saying
"hello" first, or returning a greeting if offered.
Manners, always,
Matt O.
*Soccer players often shave their legs, too. Gentlemen probably don't
shave their legs, unless unsightly hair is sticking through their lycra.
John Forrest Tomlinson
>a break. I don't know you, why should I act friendly to you?
>
Well that pretty much hits it on the head. The way I was brought up,
you greet, wave, or whatever to other people, even if you don't know
them, if you have the slightest thing in common. I guess not everyone
feels that way. Nothing wrong with that...just seems kind of lonely to
me.
JT
MTBFreak
>I've always felt that snobiness is directly proportional to the cost of
>the jersey. Not the bike, shoes, shorts, etc, but the jersey. There is
>probably an inverse relationship between price paid for the jersey and
>talent also, but it is less exact.
>
Using newtons law of gravitation and the law of thermodynamics
I've found an equation for this problem
S=k*T*P*P/ D*D
Where S=snobbiness
k=MTBFreaks constant (0.235 * 10-2)
T=Talent
P=Price of bike and equipment
D=Diameter of his tyres (ie the thicker his tyres the less
of a snob he is)
@;)
This equation has been copywritten and will be published in the next
issue of science and technology.
MTBFreak
Remove 'no_spam' from my email address
David J Bennett
Bret Wade (bw...@xilinx.com) wrote:
: Alan Paxton (pax...@iei.pi.cnr.it) wrote:
: : In article <3356fd71...@newshost.uwo.ca> pked...@sms.ivey.uwo.ca (Paul Kedrosky) writes:
: : So, speaking for myself, it's not so much snobbishness as lack of
: : interest leading to not paying attention to non-roadies. Other
: : thoughts out there?
: : home in Scotland there's few enough of us out that it's not a
: : problem to acknowledge everyone. By contrast, in some places round
: : here on a Sunday morning you get very bored of it. I hear tell that
: : in the days before the Great Car Economy motorists used to
: : acknowledge one another on their Sunday spin in the country. Don't
: : see it now though.
: : --
: : Alan Paxton (http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/alanpx/)
: I agree that it has a lot to do with the density of the cycling population.
I remember cycling the other way to a sponsered cycle ride of some kind..
I must have waved at over 500 cyclists in about 8 miles. Does kind of slow
you down a bit :-). The riders ranged from "serious roadies" on
beautiful handbuilts to Mum, Dad and the kids on 99 GBP pseudo-MTBs. It
was great to see so many people out. Actaully it was great to be out, it
was a lovely day to ride!
djb
--
| David J. Bennett | Phone: +44 (0)1904 432765 |
| Dept of Computer Science | Email: dav...@cs.york.ac.uk |
| University of York | Fax: +44 (0)1904 432767 |
| York, YO1 5DD, UK | WWW: http://www.york.ac.uk/~djb104/ |
Andrew Albright
In article <lkb128.74...@psu.edu>, lkb...@psu.edu (Lyle Beidler) wrote:
> >>Food and water are readily shared.
>
> >Even in the Tour and in the Giro or in LBL you can see Pros passing
> >the water bottles back and forth.
>
> ever see that in a local USCF race?
>
> NOt often.
>
First of all, most USCF races aren't that long, BUT (and I don't consider
myself any type of good samaritan) I've
1) gave water/drink to a 70 mile very hot RR (USCF)
2) gave water to a stinkin' PSU rider who keep attacking (with me chasing)
causing us to both get dropped up the next climb (NCCA)
3) got water from someone because I mixed my sports drink way too strong
and my tummy hurt (and he even let me keep the bottle)
I'm sure anyone that has done longer RR's will have similiar stories.
Andrew Albright
Steven L. Sheffield
In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.97041...@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA>,
VoiD <leg...@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Daryl Spano wrote:
>
> > (I think it is only polite, and it builds camaraderie.) At leat 80% of
> > people riding mountain bikes wave back, but less than 5% of rodies do
> > (only one guy). They just keep riding with their nose in the air.
> >
> That's funny. I find it's the other way around.
And you very rarely see a roadie chasing down a mountain biker to
show them how fast they are, but you quite often see the reverse.
"Ha! I just passed and dropped that skinny little, shaved-legged,
roadie! Heh heh heh. Who says road bikes are faster than MTBs?"
Chris Neary
lkb...@psu.edu (Lyle Beidler) wrote:
>
>I also find it rude when I'm road riding and am passed by a car that obviously
>belongs to a bikie (ie it has bikes on the roof or Mavic and Rock Shox
>stickers on the rear bumper) and I wave and they don't wave back.
>One time I was riding, and was passed by a red Jetta with big stickers in the
>back that said "Main Street Bikes" (Lititz, Pa) and I waved to him and he
>didn't wave back. I never went back to that shop again, even in it's new
>incarnation.
Sound like you made some pretty heavy assumptions.
Maybe the driver was on the way to the hospital to see his sick
mother. Waving to fellow cyclists may not have been high on his mental
priority list. Know what I mean?
Good rinding to you,
Chris Neary
dia...@aimnet.com
"It doesn't get any easier - you just go faster" - Greg Lemond
Timothy L. Morse 99
Here Here! all the VW's of the world unite!!!
71 VW bug.
On 18 Apr 1997, George R Crawford wrote:
> In article <stevens-1704...@bikiebob.vip.best.com> ste...@veloworks.com (Steven L. Sheffield) writes:
> <snip>
> >
> >Do you wave at everyone driving the same kind of car you do?
>
>
> Yes I do. But I drive a '70 VW Campervan and everyone waves a me first.
>
> Crawdad
>
> gcra...@altair.csustan.edu ..------~~~--.__
> http://yahi.csustan.edu/~gcrawfor/crawhome.html / c~\
> / \__ `\
> | /~~--__/ /'\ ~~'
> /'/'\ | | |`\ \_
> `-)) `-)) `-)) `-))
>
>
Timothy L. Morse 99
Have a seat Thomas...what is that brown stuff on you lips?
On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Thomas H. Kunich wrote:
> In article <5j6rhi$78t$1...@nuke.csu.net>,
> George R Crawford <gcra...@omicron.csustan.edu> wrote:
> >
> > But I drive a '70 VW Campervan and everyone waves a me first.
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it Crawdad, but it ain't a wave
> if it only has one finger.
>
>
>