question; if landis is cleared
raa...@hotmail.com
him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
(meaning, as a fan of pro cycling, would you in your heart like to see
him start in yellow or would you be grumbling that he is the cheat that
got away ?)
to be honest, that even if he is cleared, I would most likely think the
latter...because, if innocent, you would say the test is wrong because
I did not cheat- instead of offering various explanations as to why the
test could be wrong as he did; he is just a cyclist, not a scientist,
why was he providing theories as to what caused his abnormal test
results ?
Raptor
He HAS said the test is wrong, that he did not cheat. I consider him to
be the winner regardless of the outcome. I just don't trust the test.
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
If FDR fought fascism the way Bush fights terrorism, we'd all be
speaking German now.
Simon Brooke
> if landis is cleared by the uci due to his defense, would you welcome
> him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
Yes, of course.
> (meaning, as a fan of pro cycling, would you in your heart like to see
> him start in yellow or would you be grumbling that he is the cheat that
> got away ?)
Look, we now have a very serious problem with doping.
The problem is no longer that some riders take dope, although that is a
serious problem in itself. The much more serious problem is that some
organisations now have so much political investment in traducing as cheats
the champions of other organisations that we can no longer take at face
value any accusation of cheating. Landis is essentially collateral damage
in the struggle for power between the UCI and the ASO. If the UCI ever
were interested in the truth of the matter, they aren't now, partly
because if Landis were to be found not guilty it would leave ASO with a
potentially popular champion, and partly because they have done so much
harm with their unethical early leak of the allegation that there will be
real and serious consequences for the UCI as an organisation if Landis is
not found guilty.
Perhaps Landis cheated. If so, it is serious. But it is not nearly as
serious as Pat McQuaid's and Dick Pound's efforts to destroy a rider in
order to win a political victory. Given that the water is now so muddy I
think we have very little choice but give Landis the benefit of the doubt.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563
Ewoud Dronkert
> real and serious consequences for the UCI as an organisation if Landis is
> not found guilty.
Hah!
--
E. Dronkert
dusto...@mac.com
Simon Brooke wrote:
> Look, we now have a very serious problem with doping.
My take on it is: we now have a very serious problem with bad rules and
bad enforcement, and really really bad enforcers.
> The problem is no longer that some riders take dope, although that is a
> serious problem in itself. The much more serious problem is that some
> organisations now have so much political investment in traducing as cheats
> the champions of other organisations that we can no longer take at face
> value any accusation of cheating.
Pound has needed ousting for a good long time, at least since the
Marion Jones affair.
> Perhaps Landis cheated. If so, it is serious. But it is not nearly as
> serious as Pat McQuaid's and Dick Pound's efforts to destroy a rider in
> order to win a political victory. Given that the water is now so muddy I
> think we have very little choice but give Landis the benefit of the doubt.
"Give me a reader in here that can find this guy guilty!" --D-y
TomYoung
raa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> because, if innocent, you would say the test is wrong because
> I did not cheat- instead of offering various explanations as to why the
> test could be wrong as he did; he is just a cyclist, not a scientist,
> why was he providing theories as to what caused his abnormal test
> results ?
Caught in the glare of the media spotlight, with reporters hammering
away at you yelling "Did you cheat?", "You think the test is at
fault?", "If you didn't cheat why did the test come back positive?" and
so forth and so on - asking variations of the same question hundreds of
times - most people start to babble, and I think Landis did just that.
Subject to that kind of media scrutiny (media hounding?), with cameras
pointing at them and microphones in their faces, most folks are
uncomfortable saying "I don't know" and they're uncomfortable with
their own silence.
Donald Munro
>> real and serious consequences for the UCI as an organisation if Landis is
>> not found guilty.
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> Hah!
What's Hah in Dutch ? Flemish ?
Ewoud Dronkert
"I believe it when I see it."
--
E. Dronkert
wsc...@udel.edu
raa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> if landis is cleared by the uci due to his defense, would you welcome
> him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
Dumbass,
Why not? We've welcomed the dopers back every other year.
Carl Sundquist
<wsc...@udel.edu> wrote in message
news:1160938369....@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> if landis is cleared by the uci due to his defense, would you welcome
>> him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Why not? We've welcomed the dopers back every other year.
>
Who is "we"?
Ewoud Dronkert
> <wsc...@udel.edu> wrote:
>>> if landis is cleared by the uci due to his defense, would you welcome
>>> him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
>>
>
> Who is "we"?
And what did we do in the years inbetween?
--
E. Dronkert
Steve
Why not every year ? Been spending too much time at the Deer Park ?
Tere
Raptor wrote:
> raa...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > if landis is cleared by the uci due to his defense, would you welcome
> > him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
> >
> >
> > (meaning, as a fan of pro cycling, would you in your heart like to see
> > him start in yellow or would you be grumbling that he is the cheat that
> > got away ?)
> >
> > to be honest, that even if he is cleared, I would most likely think the
> > latter...because, if innocent, you would say the test is wrong because
> > I did not cheat- instead of offering various explanations as to why the
> > test could be wrong as he did; he is just a cyclist, not a scientist,
> > why was he providing theories as to what caused his abnormal test
> > results ?
>
> He HAS said the test is wrong, that he did not cheat. I consider him to
> be the winner regardless of the outcome. I just don't trust the test.
Not only that, but the way the system works is once the B sample comes
back positive, there is a presumtion of guilt. The only way Landis can
clear his name is to show not only that the tests COULD have gone
wrong, but that the ACTUALLY did in his specific instance. I'm not
saying that's right or wrong, but that's the way it is.
I'm not convinced that current severe enforcement regime really
discourages doping. If a rider who is on the fence comes to believe
that he could get "caught" even if he doesn't dope, why should he NOT
dope? A mere allegation can severely damage or ruin a riders career,
even if is later shown to be false. In the rider's assessment, if the
risk of punishment is roughly the same whether he dopes or not, then
why pass up the possible rewards?
bdbafh
Unfortunately, the domain
has already been registered.
I would hope that an event is hosted in the good ole USA during the TdF
next year named the "TdFU" that US-born riders choose to attend instead
of participating in the Tour de France.
-bdbafh
b...@mambo.ucolick.org
>
> I would hope that an event is hosted in the good ole USA during the TdF
> next year named the "TdFU" that US-born riders choose to attend instead
> of participating in the Tour de France.
Dumbass,
Don't we already have that in July? It's called the Tour de Toona.
Ask the US-born riders there if they would choose to ride it or any
domestic race instead of the Tour de France, given the opportunity.
What you suggest, to use a US-compatible analogy, is like asking
the Dominican Republic to move winter league ball to October and
have all the Dominican players skip the world series to play there.
Also, Floyd's treatment has very little to do with his nationality.
Floyd is collateral damage in a Franco-Swiss shootout, in which
two of the major players are Irish and Canadian.
Ben
ambassador for globalization
Stu Fleming
> raa...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> if landis is cleared by the uci due to his defense, would you welcome
>> him as the tdf champion to start next years tdf ?
>>
>>
>> (meaning, as a fan of pro cycling, would you in your heart like to see
>> him start in yellow or would you be grumbling that he is the cheat that
>> got away ?)
>>
>> to be honest, that even if he is cleared, I would most likely think the
>> latter...because, if innocent, you would say the test is wrong because
>> I did not cheat- instead of offering various explanations as to why the
>> test could be wrong as he did; he is just a cyclist, not a scientist,
>> why was he providing theories as to what caused his abnormal test
>> results ?
>
> Unfortunately, the domain
>
> tdfu.com
>
> has already been registered.
You are out of luck with STFU.org and .com as well.
Simon Brooke
('bdb...@gmail.com') wrote:
This is to go with your 'World Series' baseball and suchlike insular tosh,
I take it? I presume you chosen initials stand for 'the Tour of Failure
Unlimited'. The USA can't cope with life in the real world, so takes it's
ball home as usual.
You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
cycling would scarcely notice.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
I'm fed up with Life 1.0. I never liked it much and now it's getting
me down. I think I'll upgrade to MSLife 97 -- you know, the one that
comes in a flash new box and within weeks you're crawling with bugs.
Simon Brooke
('terence...@nist.gov') wrote:
> In the rider's assessment, if the
> risk of punishment is roughly the same whether he dopes or not, then
> why pass up the possible rewards?
Absolutely. And that is Dick Pound's great achievement. All hail Dick
Pound!
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
:: Wisdom is better than weapons of war ::
:: Ecclesiastes 9:18 ::
Donald Munro
> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
> cycling would scarcely notice.
I wonder if they'd mind taking Pound with them when they leave ? Perhaps
they could use him as a crash test dummy when practising gridiron football.
SLAVE of THE STATE
We are the world, we are the children. Robert and Ben are the resident
rbr experts on "we" and "our," so just ask them. LOL.
You are us. Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated. You
are RBR USA FRANCE CHIRAQ BUSH CLINTON ... BORG.
One big happy family we am.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> cycling would scarcely notice.
Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
It would be interesting to come up with a list of countries which, if they
chose to boycott the pro tour, would seriously affect the event. Belgium,
Spain, Germany & Italy come to mind. Beyond that?
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:lgme04-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
bob sullivan
>> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
>> cycling would scarcely notice.
>
> Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
>
> It would be interesting to come up with a list of countries which, if they
> chose to boycott the pro tour, would seriously affect the event. Belgium,
> Spain, Germany & Italy come to mind. Beyond that?
Kazakhstan. :) And of course, it would be interesting to see the
*French* boycott Le Tour. ;)
~bob
Carl Sundquist
"SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message
news:1161126646.4...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> One big happy family we am.
dysfunctional
Mike Jacoubowsky
You want *so* badly to see a Frenchman do well at Le Tour, but it just
doesn't seem to be in the cards. They won't support their own guys anyway. I
remember the day Moreau found out his contract wasn't being renewed... from
the press... during the TdF! Not as if Moreau was/is anything phenomenal,
but there's a touch of something there which, under the right DS, might have
come to something.
Sigh. I just looked up www.christophemoreau.com, which apparently used to be
his website. Somebody let it expire, and now it's one of many essentially
fake search-engines with advertising pop-ups. And now,
www.christophemoreau.fr doesn't work either.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Ewoud Dronkert
> "SLAVE of THE STATE" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
>> One big happy family we am.
> ^
> dysfunctional
Ah, you're using a proportional font in your newsreader.
--
E. Dronkert
Donald Munro
>> One big happy family we am.
Carl Sundquist wrote:
> ^
> dysfunctional
Portrait of a dysfunctional family. That means we're really a paraphrased
Marilyn Manson album, which is quite appropriate given the rbr fascination
with the dope show.
Simon Brooke
Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
>> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
>> cycling would scarcely notice.
>
> Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
Without whom.
> It would be interesting to come up with a list of countries which, if
> they chose to boycott the pro tour, would seriously affect the event.
> Belgium, Spain, Germany & Italy come to mind. Beyond that?
Maybe Holland. Indeed, take either Italy or Spain out and pro cycling would
be devastated. You're perfectly right that Scotland has only one rider in
the pro peloton, so they wouldn't miss us much.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; this is not a .sig
b...@mambo.ucolick.org
> > Who is "we"?
>
> We are the world, we are the children. Robert and Ben are the resident
> rbr experts on "we" and "our," so just ask them. LOL.
>
> You are us. Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated. You
> are RBR USA FRANCE CHIRAQ BUSH CLINTON ... BORG.
That's hardly fair. I don't want to assimilate _everything_, even
of yours. Your bike doesn't fit me.
> One big happy family we am.
"Happy Borg families are all alike."
Ben
RBR Kolkhoz #879 Agricultural Commissioner, Mtsensk District
Donald Munro
> "Happy Borg families are all alike."
But they're really good in TTT and they can be re-engineered to be
extremely aero.
Simon Brooke
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>> > Who is "we"?
>>
>> We are the world, we are the children. Robert and Ben are the resident
>> rbr experts on "we" and "our," so just ask them. LOL.
>>
>> You are us. Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated. You
>> are RBR USA FRANCE CHIRAQ BUSH CLINTON ... BORG.
>
> That's hardly fair. I don't want to assimilate _everything_, even
> of yours. Your bike doesn't fit me.
>
>> One big happy family we am.
>
> "Happy Borg families are all alike."
Unhappy ones are all unhappy in their own way...
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03
RonSonic
>in message <iYdZg.14968$vJ2...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
>Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
>
>>> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
>>> cycling would scarcely notice.
>>
>> Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
>
>Without whom.
The Britts, dammit man cant you read?
Ron
Simon Brooke
('rons...@tampabay.rr.com') wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:31:59 +0100, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>in message <iYdZg.14968$vJ2...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
>>Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
>>
>>>> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
>>>> cycling would scarcely notice.
>>>
>>> Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
>>
>>Without whom.
>
> The Britts, dammit man cant you read?
I merely thought you might wish to learn your mother tongue...
Who are these Britts, by the way? I've never heard of them.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
'there are no solutions, only precipitates'
Donald Munro
>>>Without whom.
RonSonic wrote:
>> The Britts, dammit man cant you read?
Simon Brooke wrote:
> I merely thought you might wish to learn your mother tongue...
rbr grammar beautiful is.
> Who are these Britts, by the way? I've never heard of them.
Britney Spears clones (a truly scary thought) ?
Mike Jacoubowsky
>>> cycling would scarcely notice.
>>
>> Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
>
> Without whom.
Thanks, I knew that one would get caught the second I hit the send key.
>> It would be interesting to come up with a list of countries which, if
>> they chose to boycott the pro tour, would seriously affect the event.
>> Belgium, Spain, Germany & Italy come to mind. Beyond that?
>
> Maybe Holland. Indeed, take either Italy or Spain out and pro cycling
> would
> be devastated. You're perfectly right that Scotland has only one rider in
> the pro peloton, so they wouldn't miss us much.
Met up with Graham Obree at the TdF this past summer. Nice guy. Definitely
had a story he wanted to tell! It was an interesting encounter; I was
leading around a group of 5 or 6 in Paris, taking them to a good viewing
spot on the final stage (less crowded at the lower end of the course) and
this guy starts a conversation with me. Friendly guy, talked about being a
pro back in the day etc. I'm thinking, is this... no. Still not sure he's
real, but I know enough to ask the right questions and eventually figure
yeah, he's real, and introduce him to the rest of the group. At that point
the others weren't sure whether to believe him or not, so Graham pulls out
his passport to prove it. Apparently he's used to having to do that, and
does so with good spirit.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:vc5h04-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
Simon Brooke
Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
> Met up with Graham Obree at the TdF this past summer. Nice guy.
You lucky man; he is my big, big hero.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; not so much a refugee from reality, more a bogus
;; asylum seeker
Mike Jacoubowsky
>
> You lucky man; he is my big, big hero.
Check out the photos- http://www.picasaweb.google.com/ChainReactionBicycles
(in the "TdF '06 Finale" section).
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:tvli04-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
Michael Press
<vc5h04-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk>,
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> in message <iYdZg.14968$vJ2...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
> Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
>
> >> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
> >> cycling would scarcely notice.
> >
> > Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
>
> Without whom.
>
> > It would be interesting to come up with a list of countries which, if
> > they chose to boycott the pro tour, would seriously affect the event.
> > Belgium, Spain, Germany & Italy come to mind. Beyond that?
>
> Maybe Holland. Indeed, take either Italy or Spain out and pro cycling would
> be devastated. You're perfectly right that Scotland has only one rider in
> the pro peloton, so they wouldn't miss us much.
Except that Holland is not a country.
--
Michael Press
RonSonic
>in message <b6bcj21euof22ctb7...@4ax.com>, RonSonic
>('rons...@tampabay.rr.com') wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:31:59 +0100, Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>in message <iYdZg.14968$vJ2...@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
>>>Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
>>>
>>>>> You know, if US born riders did all storm off in a fit of pique, pro
>>>>> cycling would scarcely notice.
>>>>
>>>> Right. Unlike the Britts, without who pro cycling would collapse?
>>>
>>>Without whom.
>>
>> The Britts, dammit man cant you read?
>
>I merely thought you might wish to learn your mother tongue...
You be quiet about my mother's tongue or you'll get what's coming to ya.
>Who are these Britts, by the way? I've never heard of them.
http://www.brittsabroad.co.uk/
Ron
Simon Brooke
No, indeed, thank you for that correction. The Netherlands, then, to be
correct, and my apologies to any Dutch people who were offended.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; my other religion is Emacs
Ewoud Dronkert
> Michael Press ('ja...@abc.net') wrote:
>> Except that Holland is not a country.
>
> No, indeed, thank you for that correction. The Netherlands, then, to be
> correct, and my apologies to any Dutch people who were offended.
None, probably. More importantly, I think the ProTour would not
collapse without Dutch participation. (Dutch, ha! Essentially the same
word as Deutsch, old Germanic for 'the people'. So Holland is just
another Bundesland. Now that would offend some Netherlanders.)
Ranking:
1. Italy
2. Spain
3-10. nobody
11. Belgium
12. France
13. Germany
14. Holland
15. other minor cycling nations like USA.
--
E. Dronkert
Simon Brooke
('firs...@lastname.net.invalid') wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:23:57 +0100, Simon Brooke wrote:
>> Michael Press ('ja...@abc.net') wrote:
>>> Except that Holland is not a country.
>>
>> No, indeed, thank you for that correction. The Netherlands, then, to be
>> correct, and my apologies to any Dutch people who were offended.
>
> None, probably. More importantly, I think the ProTour would not
> collapse without Dutch participation. (Dutch, ha! Essentially the same
> word as Deutsch, old Germanic for 'the people'. So Holland is just
> another Bundesland. Now that would offend some Netherlanders.)
Are you saying that the Dutch are bicycle thieves?
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; IE 3 is dead, but Netscape 4 still shambles about the earth,
;; wreaking a horrific vengeance upon the living
;; anonymous
bdbafh
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> Met up with Graham Obree at the TdF this past summer. Nice guy.
> >
> > You lucky man; he is my big, big hero.
>
>
> Check out the photos- http://www.picasaweb.google.com/ChainReactionBicycles
> (in the "TdF '06 Finale" section).
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> "Simon Brooke" <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:tvli04-...@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> > in message <_avZg.16029$e66....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, Mike
> > Jacoubowsky ('Mi...@ChainReaction.com') wrote:
> >
> >> Met up with Graham Obree at the TdF this past summer. Nice guy.
> >
> > You lucky man; he is my big, big hero.
> >
> > --
> > si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
> >
> > ;; not so much a refugee from reality, more a bogus
> > ;; asylum seeker
> >
thanks for posting the link.
I like the bike (shaped structure) in the background of this one:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ChainReactionBicycles/TdF06Stage16TheDayLandisCracked/photo#s4981833347674865682
-bdbafh
Michael Press
<96eej2t1qalivfdho...@4ax.com>,
Ewoud Dronkert <firs...@lastname.net.invalid>
wrote:
Thank you for that. Yes, Italy and Spain comprise the top ten.
--
Michael Press
Raptor
Serving as a volunteer in the 2002 Olympic Village, I briefly met
Joachem Uydtehagge(sp?), the then-dominant Dutch speedskater who later
won a couple golds. After gently driving his skates and other gear to
his dorm (he rode in another van), I asked his name and said, "Ah,
you're from Holland, right? Oh, wait. I mean The Netherlands." He
replied, "Oh no, you're right. Same thing."
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
If FDR fought fascism the way Bush fights terrorism, we'd all be
speaking German now.
Simon Brooke
wrote:
> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> in message <jack-82EF65.1...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
>> Michael Press ('ja...@abc.net') wrote:
>>> Except that Holland is not a country.
>>
>> No, indeed, thank you for that correction. The Netherlands, then, to be
>> correct, and my apologies to any Dutch people who were offended.
>
> Serving as a volunteer in the 2002 Olympic Village, I briefly met
> Joachem Uydtehagge(sp?), the then-dominant Dutch speedskater who later
> won a couple golds. After gently driving his skates and other gear to
> his dorm (he rode in another van), I asked his name and said, "Ah,
> you're from Holland, right? Oh, wait. I mean The Netherlands." He
> replied, "Oh no, you're right. Same thing."
'Holland' is the same as 'The Netherlands' in the same way as 'England' is
the same as 'Britain'. When people talk disparagingly about the British I
don't give a damn, because British is the same as English so it doesn't
include me. But when people talk about 'England' meaning 'Britain' I'm
*really* pissed off.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
IMHO, there aren't enough committed Christians, but that's care
in the community for you. -- Ben Evans
Ryan Cousineau
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> in message <eh9fbm$6h6$1...@news.xmission.com>, Raptor ('law...@xmission.com')
> wrote:
>
> > Simon Brooke wrote:
> >> in message <jack-82EF65.1...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>,
> >> Michael Press ('ja...@abc.net') wrote:
> >>> Except that Holland is not a country.
> >>
> >> No, indeed, thank you for that correction. The Netherlands, then, to be
> >> correct, and my apologies to any Dutch people who were offended.
> >
> > Serving as a volunteer in the 2002 Olympic Village, I briefly met
> > Joachem Uydtehagge(sp?), the then-dominant Dutch speedskater who later
> > won a couple golds. After gently driving his skates and other gear to
> > his dorm (he rode in another van), I asked his name and said, "Ah,
> > you're from Holland, right? Oh, wait. I mean The Netherlands." He
> > replied, "Oh no, you're right. Same thing."
>
> 'Holland' is the same as 'The Netherlands' in the same way as 'England' is
> the same as 'Britain'. When people talk disparagingly about the British I
> don't give a damn, because British is the same as English so it doesn't
> include me. But when people talk about 'England' meaning 'Britain' I'm
> *really* pissed off.
Hey, it's all Albion to me.
(remember kids, this sort of thing is only funny when it's deliberate).
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos