Any Sense In Following the Tour de France Any More?

[i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca]

What with the rampant doping and the so called winner of 7 tours getting stripped of those wins, I and some others are wondering if there is any sense in even bothering to follow the Tour de France any more. Now you won't ever know who actually wins a Tour de France since they can be stripped of that win retroactively a great many years later.

Will this Armstrong, UCI, WADA, USADA scandal spell the end of the Tour de France as we know/knew it? Will teams even be able to get sponser any more? Will riders still want to ride The Tour knowing that they can lose to a clever doping scheme and be deprived of their proper place finish?

If not The Tour what Grand Tour if any are worth watching now?

Cheers

[MyPostingID]

A

re you saying the Tour de France was the only bike race you were interested in?

[i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca]

No.

[del...@mailinator.com]

What is needed is a 'doping bicycle league' where the riders openly follow medically supervised protocols to optimize human performance by any available means, limited only to what non-cycling persons could legally obtain. This would include EPO, certain steroids and human growth hormones. Why not? We would see some truly stunning performances.

[atriage]

We already have, you didn't think normal people can sprint up 20% gradients did you?
--
Android Usenet Reader
http://android.newsgroupstats.hk

[Fred Flintstein]

No, it's all OK. LANCE is gone now, they're all riding clean.

F

[Revtom]

Pfft. All the great races will be worth watching. Even hip-deep in dope, there are always bout 20 riders who have the potential to win. Un-doped, there will still be 20 or so racers who can win on a given day. The best way to watch a race is just pick someone and watch them. I always like to follow underdogs.

[Davey Crockett]

Fred Flintstein a écrit profondement:

| No, it's all OK. LANCE is gone now, they're all riding clean.
>
| F

If I were to do some crystal ball gazing, I'd be willing to bet
that the pair of miscreants who really introduced the
supercharging programme to that bunch were Slava and Johan.

They both had extensive experience with it, Slava with Aleksandr
Kuznetsov at Lokomotiv and Johan with Manolo's "Special Orange
Juice".

But be that as it may, it just isn't a Tour without Manolo.

--
Davey Crockett
Flying the Flag of the English
The Flag of Hengest and Horsa
http://azurservers.com/images/whiteDragon.jpg

[Mower Man]

On 31/10/2012 5:32 PM, Revtom wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:07:43 AM UTC-5, i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> What with the rampant doping and the so called winner of 7 tours getting stripped of those wins, I and some others are wondering
if there is any sense in even bothering to follow the Tour de France any
more. Now you won't ever know who actually wins a
Tour de France since they can be stripped of that win retroactively a
great many years later.
>>
>>
>>
>> Will this Armstrong, UCI, WADA, USADA scandal spell the end of the Tour de France as we know/knew it?

Will teams even be able to get sponsor any more? Will riders still want

to ride The Tour knowing that they can lose
to a clever doping scheme and be deprived of their proper place finish?
>>
>>
>>
>> If not The Tour what Grand Tour if any are worth watching now?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>
> Pfft. All the great races will be worth watching. Even hip-deep in dope, there are always bout 20 riders who have the potential to win.
Un-doped, there will still be 20 or so racers who can win on a given
day. The best way to watch a race is just pick someone and watch them.
I always like to follow underdogs.
>

Vuelta a Espana was great this year - I supported Purito. But how did he
manage all those attacks on the climbs...? Massive.

--
Chris

'Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it
every six months.'

(Oscar Wilde.)

[Mower Man]

Sorry! Failed at revising word wrap. (Was over 79 characters per line,
etc..)
Will this be any better I wonder?

[atriage]

Davey Crockett<r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
> Fred Flintstein a écrit profondement:
> | No, it's all OK. LANCE is gone now, they're all riding clean.
> >
> | F
> If I were to do some crystal ball gazing, I'd be willing to bet
> that the pair of miscreants who really introduced the
> supercharging programme to that bunch were Slava and Johan.

Johan could be about to induce serious quantities of shit to hit a very large turbine. Christmas could be interesting, watch this space as they say.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/11/analysis/analysis-bruyneels-arbitration-proceeding-could-give-usada-the-power-to-subpoena-witnesses-including-armstrong_263566

[Fred Flintstein]

The author of that article uses terms and concepts from criminal
law that don't apply here. USADA are not cops, and doping for a
bike race is not a criminal offense in the US. WTF!

F

[atriage]

Fred Flintstein<bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
> On 11/4/2012 2:51 PM, atriage wrote:
> >
> >
> > Davey Crockett<r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
> >> Fred Flintstein a écrit profondement:
> >> | No, it's all OK. LANCE is gone now, they're all riding clean.
> >> >
> >> | F
> >> If I were to do some crystal ball gazing, I'd be willing to bet
> >> that the pair of miscreants who really introduced the
> >> supercharging programme to that bunch were Slava and Johan.
> >
> > Johan could be about to induce serious quantities of shit to hit a very
> > large turbine. Christmas could be interesting, watch this space as they
> > say.
> > http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/11/analysis/analysis-bruyneels-arbitration-proceeding-could-give-usada-the-power-to-subpoena-witnesses-including-armstrong_26

> The author of that article uses terms and concepts from criminal
> law that don't apply here. USADA are not cops, and doping for a
> bike race is not a criminal offense in the US. WTF!

It seems that in an arbitration hearing USADA can compel testimony under oath at which point because his testimony would refer to someone else LA cannot plead the 5th

[atriage]

Fred Flintstein<bob.sc...@sbcREMOVEglobal.net> wrote:
> On 11/4/2012 2:51 PM, atriage wrote:
> >
> >
> > Davey Crockett<r...@azurservers.com> wrote:
> >> Fred Flintstein a écrit profondement:
> >> | No, it's all OK. LANCE is gone now, they're all riding clean.
> >> >
> >> | F
> >> If I were to do some crystal ball gazing, I'd be willing to bet
> >> that the pair of miscreants who really introduced the
> >> supercharging programme to that bunch were Slava and Johan.
> >
> > Johan could be about to induce serious quantities of shit to hit a very
> > large turbine. Christmas could be interesting, watch this space as they
> > say.
> > http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/11/analysis/analysis-bruyneels-arbitration-proceeding-could-give-usada-the-power-to-subpoena-witnesses-including-armstrong_263566
>

> The author of that article uses terms and concepts from criminal
> law that don't apply here. USADA are not cops, and doping for a
> bike race is not a criminal offense in the US. WTF!
> F

The point seems to be that USADA can compel testimony under oath at an arbitration hearing, which would put LA in deep shit if it happens.

[Fred Flintstein]

USADA does not have authority to compel anything. They're not
cops. I know no one thinks that matters, but it really does
matter.

If LANCE tells USADA to stick it, can they have him arrested
and forced to appear and testify? I think the answer to that
is... fuck no!

F

[atriage]

I see what you're saying but it's complicated. Johan is taking USADA to arbitration which means that him and USADA rock up before the American Arbitration Association who can call witnesses who will testify under oath. Telling lies under oath buys you jail time in the USA regardless of who you were lying to.
Also there seems to be case to be made for assigning Federal status to USADA action (see link). Of course of if I really knew much about this stuff I'd be sitting in a plush office somewhere in California charging $1000/hour for my services instead of looking out of the window in rainy England wondering when I'm next gonna be able to go for a ride.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1150863

[Steve Freides]

i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca wrote:

> What with the rampant doping and the so called winner of 7 tours
> getting stripped of those wins, I and some others are wondering if
> there is any sense in even bothering to follow the Tour de France any
> more.

You're right - there is no point now.

> Now you won't ever know who actually wins a Tour de France
> since they can be stripped of that win retroactively a great many
> years later.

This is true.

> Will this Armstrong, UCI, WADA, USADA scandal spell the end of the
> Tour de France as we know/knew it?

Long since accomplished.

> Will teams even be able to get sponser any more?

Yes.

> Will riders still want to ride The Tour knowing
> that they can lose to a clever doping scheme and be deprived of their
> proper place finish?

Yes. Making a living riding a bike is better than <insert any one of a
lot of jobs here>.

> If not The Tour what Grand Tour if any are worth watching now?

Probably not but the younger folk won't know any better and will watch,
anyway.


> Cheers

Not very cheerful news if you ask me.

-S-

[dardruba]

>> What with the rampant doping and the so called winner of 7 tours
>> getting stripped of those wins, I and some others are wondering if
>> there is any sense in even bothering to follow the Tour de France any
>> more.

After this years event how can you possibly doubt its validity.

>> Now you won't ever know who actually wins a Tour de France
>> since they can be stripped of that win retroactively a great many
>> years later.

It took a long time to catch these cheats, but its paid off.

>> Will this Armstrong, UCI, WADA, USADA scandal spell the end of the
>> Tour de France as we know/knew it?

That scandal was all about American attitudes and they proved that money
talks.
This Tour and all the others have been so well run and observed this
year, long may it continue.
Cheats were caught and the guilty were seen to be reprimanded and were
publicly shamed.
That bodes well for our future.

>> Will teams even be able to get sponser any more?

Of course. Just look at the way riders have been changing teams.

>> Will riders still want to ride The Tour knowing
>> that they can lose to a clever doping scheme and be deprived of their
>> proper place finish?

First over the line wins.
But its not just about doping. Anyone found 'Doing an Armstrong' in
future will be taken to that famous French island and lockedup, chained
to the wall and fed on gruel for as long as he survives.

>> If not The Tour what Grand Tour if any are worth watching now?

All. Providing the surveillance and policing of this years events
continues to improve worldwide.