Mount DeCanio erupts again
Alan Atwood
http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=348
Wow. S*** is hitting the fan now.....
Alan
B. Lafferty
"Alan Atwood" <alan_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f3f6b33e.04081...@posting.google.com...
Wonderful! But he's right about one thing in particular. Nothing's going to
change. It's all about making money and big money at that. Hence, Omerta.
RWM
I like the concept of stopping doping but it didn't seem that Matt really
thought through all of the issues very well. The first thing that I have an
issue with is the use of the polygraph. It has been shown many times that a
polygraph is not accurate enough for this type situation. What happens to a
rider that has a false positive? I also have problems with the DS getting
suspended for having a rider test positive. If a rider chooses to dope why
does the DS pay a penalty? I don't know of any sport where a team manager
gets a penalty for violation than an athlete commits. I do like the
aggressive stance against doping in the article.
B. Lafferty
"B. Lafferty" <Ma...@Italia.com> wrote in message
news:LVOSc.14227$nx2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Some interesting perspective from Mark Spitz :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/3913609.stm
TritonRider
>Some interesting perspective from Mark Spitz :
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/3913609.stm
>
>
I just got this in an update today.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996265
If verified this is going to make catching them even tougher.
Bill C
B. Lafferty
"TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040812152024...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Yup! So test them every day for three months prior to the Tour. For
classics riders, three months prior to April.
Tom Paterson
>Some interesting perspective from Mark Spitz :
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/3913609.stm
>
Yeah, he said if you take the money out, there will be no problems. He doesn't
know about high school athletes taking performance enhancing substances? Bull.
Well, he's not the only champion of yesteryear (remember his televised comeback
failure?) who is comparing oblivion with the modern sportsman's paycheck, it
would seem. That must really, really hurt, having to _work_ for a living, like
the little people, when you can't swim fast enough anymore. "Real Estate
Agent"-- not quite the thrills and adulation of old. (See, it's *not* the
money.)
I loved "We had steroids but they were only used in other sports". ("We"?
Wouldn't "they" have been a little more consistent with denial of use?) He won
_eleven_ medals? "He must have been on something"! (did I get that right,
Brian?)
"I might have been tempted". Snort, guffaw. --TP
B. Lafferty
"Tom Paterson" <dusto...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040812165742...@mb-m23.aol.com...
> >From: "B. Lafferty"
>
> >Some interesting perspective from Mark Spitz :
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics_2004/swimming/3913609.stm
> >
>
> Yeah, he said if you take the money out, there will be no problems. He
doesn't
> know about high school athletes taking performance enhancing substances?
Bull.
Two of the reasons high school football players use steroids is to get
football scholorships to college and in the hope (absurd for most) of making
it to the pro level. Both are money drivers. Money is a pervasive driver
for most organized sports with doping problems. Would there be fewer dopers
if there was no money. Fewer perhaps, but human nature being what it is,
some will still dope. We see it at the local races all the time. Come big
race day, some riders suddenly have rocket power.
>
> Well, he's not the only champion of yesteryear (remember his televised
comeback
> failure?) who is comparing oblivion with the modern sportsman's paycheck,
it
> would seem. That must really, really hurt, having to _work_ for a living,
like
> the little people, when you can't swim fast enough anymore. "Real Estate
> Agent"-- not quite the thrills and adulation of old. (See, it's *not* the
> money.)
Sounds like you have the inside track on mark Spitz. Have you ever met him,
Tom?
>
> I loved "We had steroids but they were only used in other sports". ("We"?
> Wouldn't "they" have been a little more consistent with denial of use?) He
won
> _eleven_ medals? "He must have been on something"! (did I get that right,
> Brian?)
He never tested positive, did he. IIRC, back then it was the Chinese swim
team that was heavy into steroids, and obviously so. I guess the US gold
medal hockey team must have been pumped up on roids, too. Right, Tom?
>
> "I might have been tempted". Snort, guffaw. --TP
But your man Lance is clean. Snort, guffaw.
Andy Coggan
>
> http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=348
"when you use EPO and live at altitude it pushes the synthetic proteins out
of your system that cause you to test positive. You will never fail a test
for EPO if you live at altitude or sleep in an altitude tent."
DeCanio is hallucinating: living/sleeping at altitude/simulated altitude is
a very mild stimulus to EPO secretion, at least compared to the levels
achieved when you inject the drug. The ratio of synthetic vs. natural EPO in
blood or urine would therefore be little affected by the approach he
proposes.
Andy Coggan
Dan Connelly
> Two of the reasons high school football players use steroids is to get
> football scholorships to college and in the hope (absurd for most) of making
> it to the pro level. Both are money drivers. Money is a pervasive driver
> for most organized sports with doping problems. Would there be fewer dopers
> if there was no money. Fewer perhaps, but human nature being what it is,
> some will still dope. We see it at the local races all the time. Come big
> race day, some riders suddenly have rocket power.
>
>
The only way to take the money out of cycling is to take the interest from cycling.
Is that what you want?
Even if you did, do you think master's athletes dope? Heck, even gym rats
take steroids, and that's not even formally competitive. No, it would change
nothing.
Dan
TritonRider
> Heck, even gym rats
>take steroids, and that's not even formally competitive. No, it would change
>nothing.
>
>Dan
>
>
And a whole lot of other stuff. You are a master of understatement.
Bill C
B. Lafferty
"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
news:wOSSc.3937$Nb5....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> B. Lafferty wrote:
>
> > Two of the reasons high school football players use steroids is to get
> > football scholorships to college and in the hope (absurd for most) of
making
> > it to the pro level. Both are money drivers. Money is a pervasive
driver
> > for most organized sports with doping problems. Would there be fewer
dopers
> > if there was no money. Fewer perhaps, but human nature being what it
is,
> > some will still dope. We see it at the local races all the time. Come
big
> > race day, some riders suddenly have rocket power.
> >
> >
>
> The only way to take the money out of cycling is to take the interest from
cycling.
> Is that what you want?
I haven't proposed anything. The comment was Tom's relating to high school
athletics. I think I made it clear there would still be dopers, though
perhaps not as many. We'll need to do a survey. ;-)
>
> Even if you did, do you think master's athletes dope?
I know that they do. I've done masters races with a 50+ year old with fresh
acne on his back.
Mark Fennell
>
> Two of the reasons high school football players use steroids is to get
> football scholorships to college and in the hope (absurd for most) of
making
> it to the pro level. Both are money drivers.
<snip>
Those may be two of the reasons but, IMHO, they are very minor. I think it's
all about competition, on the field and to get girls.
Tom Paterson
>Two of the reasons high school football players use steroids is to get
>football scholorships to college and in the hope (absurd for most) of making
>it to the pro level. (snip)
> Would there be fewer dopers
>if there was no money. Fewer perhaps, but human nature being what it is,
>some will still dope. We see it at the local races all the time. Come big
>race day, some riders suddenly have >rocket power.
So you agree that at least some of the Spitz article you posted the link for is
bull: people take steroids when there is little/no money at stake ("amateur"
bike racing) and/or when the rewards are iffy, as for scholarships and pro
careers. "Taking the money out" is a dumb thing to say. Spitz isn't dumb.
Disingenuous, maybe. Not dumb.
>Sounds like you have the inside track on mark Spitz. Have you ever met him,
>Tom?
What's the matter, Brian? I'm obviously playing off you here. Sarcasm lost?
Turnabout a little hard to take?
Met him? No. Parallel to your (longstanding) treatment of Lance Armstrong
nearly completed. Bear with me a moment:
Mark Spitz a *hero* of yours or something? Are you indeed a Spitz tifiosi? Do
you believe everything he says, even when he won all those medals in a
scurrilously suspicious display of superiority? Why didn't he swim in more
events? What about that non-competitive, post-testing comback attempt in 91-92?
And all those high-paying commercials that kept him out of the pool!!! (etc.
etc.)
>He never tested positive, did he.
Nor did anyone until '76 if my sources are correct. Nice try (not): one Olympic
alcohol positive in 68, seven unspecified positives in 72.
<S> (for Sarcasm, Brian, I'll start doing that; anything to help): Is that
improved testing for '76 *really* why Spitz quit, not the "lost his amateur
status" cover story? I find myself unsatisfied with the answers given <S>. It
would seem that Mr. Spitz has a deeper, more detailed story to tell <S>.
Perhaps we can find people who swam with him or worked with organizations he
was affiliated with <S>, perhaps some people whose employment or team slots
were terminated, so we can get a more accurate <S> picture of what really
happened all those years ago.
I think I'm grasping the basics pretty well, here!
>I guess the US gold
>medal hockey team must have been >pumped up on roids, too. Right, Tom?
Making assumptions based on performance and association is your prime area,
Brian. Remember? "Lance wins races and consults with Ferrari, so Lance is a
doper?"
(I posted):
>> "I might have been tempted". Snort, guffaw.
(reply):
>But your man Lance is clean. Snort, >guffaw.
I'm snorting at the self-serving, chicken-shit "might". I know that didn't
really go over your head. Lance? What about Lance, Brian? Any news? They didn't
find his name in the Balco stuff, no post-Tour "revelations" from Walsh, no
nothing (including, of course: A&B sample positive tests, possession, uncoerced
confession).
(snip from previous):
>IIRC, back then it was the Chinese swim
>team that was heavy into steroids, and >obviously so.
If this is true it only pokes a nice big hole in Spitz's statement that
"steroids were only used in other sports" (along with the fact that steroids
were in common use from approx. 1954 in the USA:
<http://www.methodistsports.com/Images/Item/bin11705.pdf>
That would be real close to 20 years that steroids were known about and used
right here in the USA, not just behind the Iron Curtain. Spitz: "We had
steroids...". His own recent words.
Damn, Brian, you dragged poor old Mark Spitz in here and he got all dirty,
whether he ever doped or not. Tsk tsk. I hope you can still look at that fading
picture on your bedroom wall with the same rosy adulation <S><g>. --TP
B. Lafferty
"Mark Fennell" <marco_f...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6YSSc.30767$xk.21259@fed1read01...
I can tell you that I've had conversations with students who were playing
football and using steroids, creatine and probably more. They were very
competitive and all looking for scholarships to college. The social aspect
was important too, but the steroids went along with a tremendous amount of
hard work nearly year round to try to score that college ticket.
And then there was the senior woman, who was using steroids to keep her body
fat low so as to star in soccer and track. She did quite well and got what
she wanted.
TritonRider
>I can tell you that I've had conversations with students who were playing
>football and using steroids, creatine and probably more. They were very
>competitive and all looking for scholarships to college. The social aspect
>was important too, but the steroids went along with a tremendous amount of
>hard work nearly year round to try to score that college ticket.
>
>And then there was the senior woman, who was using steroids to keep her body
>fat low so as to star in soccer and track. She did quite well and got what
>she wanted.
>
Were back to the link I posted a while ago about kids down to age 10, GET
THAT? 10.
Doing performance enhancing drugs. I know that coach, mom and dad are looking
at the money but this shit has just gotten sick.
Bill C
>
>
B. Lafferty
"Tom Paterson" <dusto...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
> >From: "B. Lafferty"
>
> >Two of the reasons high school football players use steroids is to get
> >football scholorships to college and in the hope (absurd for most) of
making
> >it to the pro level. (snip)
>
> > Would there be fewer dopers
> >if there was no money. Fewer perhaps, but human nature being what it is,
> >some will still dope. We see it at the local races all the time. Come
big
> >race day, some riders suddenly have >rocket power.
>
> So you agree that at least some of the Spitz article you posted the link
for is
> bull: people take steroids when there is little/no money at stake
("amateur"
> bike racing) and/or when the rewards are iffy, as for scholarships and pro
> careers. "Taking the money out" is a dumb thing to say. Spitz isn't dumb.
> Disingenuous, maybe. Not dumb.
>
> >Sounds like you have the inside track on mark Spitz. Have you ever met
him,
> >Tom?
>
> What's the matter, Brian? I'm obviously playing off you here. Sarcasm
lost?
> Turnabout a little hard to take?
Oh. You're playing off me? Now I'm confused.
>
> Met him? No. Parallel to your (longstanding) treatment of Lance Armstrong
> nearly completed. Bear with me a moment:
>
> Mark Spitz a *hero* of yours or something? Are you indeed a Spitz tifiosi?
Do
> you believe everything he says, even when he won all those medals in a
> scurrilously suspicious display of superiority? Why didn't he swim in more
> events? What about that non-competitive, post-testing comback attempt in
91-92?
> And all those high-paying commercials that kept him out of the pool!!!
(etc.
> etc.)
What's your point? You don't like Mark Spitz? I don't have any opinion
about him either way.
>
> >He never tested positive, did he.
>
> Nor did anyone until '76 if my sources are correct. Nice try (not): one
Olympic
> alcohol positive in 68, seven unspecified positives in 72.
Does that mean he and everyone else was clean?
>
> <S> (for Sarcasm, Brian, I'll start doing that; anything to help): Is
that
> improved testing for '76 *really* why Spitz quit, not the "lost his
amateur
> status" cover story? I find myself unsatisfied with the answers given <S>.
It
> would seem that Mr. Spitz has a deeper, more detailed story to tell <S>.
> Perhaps we can find people who swam with him or worked with organizations
he
> was affiliated with <S>, perhaps some people whose employment or team
slots
> were terminated, so we can get a more accurate <S> picture of what really
> happened all those years ago.
Sounds like you're really a very frustrated person. I suggest that if you
have that much bile for Mr. Spitz, start researching and interviewing.
>
> I think I'm grasping the basics pretty well, here!
>
> >I guess the US gold
> >medal hockey team must have been >pumped up on roids, too. Right, Tom?
>
> Making assumptions based on performance and association is your prime
area,
> Brian. Remember? "Lance wins races and consults with Ferrari, so Lance is
a
> doper?"
And if Spitz or any other swimmer today had used a Ferrari type of
trainer/coach, I'd be asking the same questions and seeing the same warning
flags I and others see with Armstrong. The issue is, as Spitz, Lemond and
numerous others have pointed out, that not testing positive proves nothing.
>
> (I posted):
>
> >> "I might have been tempted". Snort, guffaw.
>
> (reply):
>
> >But your man Lance is clean. Snort, >guffaw.
>
> I'm snorting at the self-serving, chicken-shit "might". I know that didn't
> really go over your head. Lance? What about Lance, Brian? Any news? They
didn't
> find his name in the Balco stuff, no post-Tour "revelations" from Walsh,
no
> nothing (including, of course: A&B sample positive tests, possession,
uncoerced
> confession).
Have you read the Walsh & and Ballester book yet? I have. Talk to me about
Walsh and Lance after you've read it. Until then you're just blowing smoke
out of your bung hole. If you want to borrow the book let me know.
>
> (snip from previous):
>
> >IIRC, back then it was the Chinese swim
> >team that was heavy into steroids, and >obviously so.
>
> If this is true it only pokes a nice big hole in Spitz's statement that
> "steroids were only used in other sports" (along with the fact that
steroids
> were in common use from approx. 1954 in the USA:
> <http://www.methodistsports.com/Images/Item/bin11705.pdf>
>
> That would be real close to 20 years that steroids were known about and
used
> right here in the USA, not just behind the Iron Curtain. Spitz: "We had
> steroids...". His own recent words.
Steroids were around. Did Spitz use them? I certainly don't know. He never
tested positive and he says he didn't use them. Maybe he just has a great
VO2 Max--higher than Lance's 82 (not the 83.5 that his web site suddenly
changed to).
>
> Damn, Brian, you dragged poor old Mark Spitz in here and he got all dirty,
> whether he ever doped or not. Tsk tsk. I hope you can still look at that
fading
> picture on your bedroom wall with the same rosy adulation <S><g>. --TP
Thanks Tom. You made my day. Have a great evening.
B. Lafferty
I agree that it's completely sick. I think a lot of the parents just don't
want to know if the kid is using. And some do see the kid as a financial
way up and out.
WooGoogle
The link to stolenunderground.com speculates on three more US EPO
positives on the Healthnet team.
Tom Paterson
>Oh. You're playing off me? Now I'm >confused.
Hardly. You could have said you were flattered.
>What's your point? You don't like Mark Spitz? I don't have any opinion
>about him either way.
Just imitating your style. Don't play dumb.
>Sounds like you're really a very frustrated person.
Mirroring Walsh who you can bet is really, really frustrated. Hope he's okay.
> I suggest that if you
>have that much bile for Mr. Spitz, start >researching and interviewing.
Obviously imitating. Research sufficient for that completed.
>And if Spitz or any other swimmer today had used a Ferrari type of
>trainer/coach, I'd be asking the same questions and seeing the same warning
>flags I and others see with Armstrong.
"Questions" you lifted from Walsh. "Accusations" is the word. "We don't prove
anything here". That's right, you haven't.
>The issue is, as Spitz, Lemond and
>numerous others have pointed out, that >not testing positive proves nothing.
It proves you can pass tests over and over. So don't say "nothing", because
some have been caught by these same tests. And some have been caught in
possession. And some have admitted using illicit substances to improve
performance.
>Have you read the Walsh & and Ballester >book yet?
Only if you promise you haven't left anything out when posting here.
>If you want to borrow the book let me >know.
I'm sure I can do that locally and save postage. Thanks for the trust and the
offer, though.
>Steroids were around. Did Spitz use >them? I certainly don't know.
How about Lance? Do you know if he did?
>Thanks Tom. You made my day.
Thought you'd like the one about the picture on your bedroom wall. I felt
inspired there-- well, slightly anyhow.
>Have a great evening.
You too. Demain. --TP
Holden Caufield
THIS JUST IN.......TOP DEVELOPMENTS AND NEWS UPDATES FROM
STOLEN UNDERGROUND SPIES.
http://stolenunderground.com/id74.html
August 12 2004 1:54 AM
This just in from one of our top spies. It looks like three EPO
positives have come in from riders from the Health-Net team. The details
remain sketchy at the time, but I will check some other sources to verify if
this could be true.
"WooGoogle" <sw...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:39e72603.04081...@posting.google.com...
Howard Kveck
"B. Lafferty" <Ma...@Italia.com> wrote:
> "Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
> news:wOSSc.3937$Nb5....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> > Even if you did, do you think master's athletes dope?
>
> I know that they do. I've done masters races with a 50+ year old with fresh
> acne on his back.
Well, Brian, that doesn't really prove anything, doping-wise. Some
people are just naturally pimply. Oily skin, sunblock, work environments,
etc. Now, I'm not saying that masters don't dope. I don't *know* if they
do, but suspect some (or many) may. Just a suspicion on my part.
--
tanx,
Howard
So far, so good, so what?
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Tom Kunich
>
> http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=348
>
> Wow. S*** is hitting the fan now.....
This is a perfect example of what I was saying before. Bill posted an
article from New Scientist that was at least somewhat scientific but Decanio
demonstrates that he just doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
I'm not saying that he didn't see lots of drugs being used. But he really
doesn't have a clue about how to avoid detection and his ideas about turning
racing into an inqusition are rather pointless.
Believe it or not, the UCI's slow and steady progress is probably the best
way.
Stewart Fleming
B. Lafferty wrote:
> Yup! So test them every day for three months prior to the Tour. For
> classics riders, three months prior to April.
Testosterone is the best programme to use in preparation and also the
easiest to conceal. Last time anyone serious tested positive for testo
was....um....
Ewoud Dronkert
> Last time anyone serious tested positive for
> testo was....um....
Gert-Jan Theunisse?
Stewart Fleming
WooGoogle wrote:
If you consider that there's two Kiwis and one Canadian on that team,
and one just back after a "dodgy supplements" issue, that's cutting
quite close....
Stewart Fleming
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
Yeh that's exactly who I was thinking of.
Stewart Fleming
Stewart Fleming wrote:
Um....just don't get it from Wal-Mart...
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/081204_nw_Prescription_Error.html
WooGoogle
This site has been right on the money every time predicting these
before they are released.
August 13 2004 4:43PM
This just in.......Spy 11 has reported from the field......."I read
that 6 people tested positive for EPO at Georgia: (the lists I've
found have changed, but it looks like it will be revealed officially
on the 19th)
Horner
McCartney (Hn)
Sayers (Hn)
Dominguez (Colavita)
Haedo (Colavita)
O'Neill (Colavita)
And Adam Bergman (Jelly Belly) tested positive a second time
Stewart Fleming
WooGoogle wrote:
> Horner
> McCartney (Hn)
> Sayers (Hn)
> Dominguez (Colavita)
> Haedo (Colavita)
> O'Neill (Colavita)
> And Adam Bergman (Jelly Belly) tested positive a second time
Second-best indicator on the net...careful reading of John Lieswyn's CN
diaries...
The problem would be with McCartney, if this list is to be believed. If
these tests relate to TdG, then the results have been known about for a
while, but JM has been selected to go to the Olympics. In the current
climate, I find that hard to believe if a positive was in the works.
Unless of course you widen the conspiracy theory and believe that WADA
and IOC are out to totally humiliate and ruin careers by getting all the
positives on Olympic turf...
LMBenton
>
> http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=348
>
> Wow. S*** is hitting the fan now.....
>
> Alan
I suppose it's a matter of public record, but to save me the research time,
give me the complete roster of the U23 team with Matt in Europe.
Glenn Butzlaff
"B. Lafferty" <Ma...@Italia.com> wrote in message
<snip>
> Wonderful! But he's right about one thing in particular. Nothing's going
to
> change. It's all about making money and big money at that. Hence, Omerta.
In American pro racing? He seems to be referencing the drug scene in the
USA. Money is a factor, but in my opinion, so is the desire to advance the
sport here in the USA. Any large scale controversy could hurt fragile
sponsorships or slow the momentum the sport has seen in the recent past.
Glenn Butzlaff
Cudahy, WI
John Forrest Tomlinson
<stewart...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>The problem would be with McCartney, if this list is to be believed. If
>these tests relate to TdG, then the results have been known about for a
>while, but JM has been selected to go to the Olympics. In the current
>climate, I find that hard to believe if a positive was in the works.
>
>Unless of course you widen the conspiracy theory and believe that WADA
>and IOC are out to totally humiliate and ruin careers by getting all the
>positives on Olympic turf...
Somethign is going on beacuse national federations seem to be catching
people suddenly. I think they or the UCI might be worried about
embarrssement at the Olympics.
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
Dan Connelly
> Second-best indicator on the net...careful reading of John Lieswyn's CN
> diaries...
>
Example?
Stewart Fleming
"When he and I were trying to keep Gord at the front in the last 5km,
Jason pulled so hard that when it was my turn I couldn't even come through."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2004/diaries/john/?id=john0419
"In fact, only Creed was able to beat Sayers up the final climb. Sayers
weather a storm of attacks from the USPS rider while Fraser took a top
five placing as well."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2004/diaries/john/?id=john0420
"Perhaps credit should be given to the likes of Fraser, Grajales,
Horner, McCartney, and the other US-based riders who met the euro
challenge head on."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2004/diaries/john/?id=john0415
"Anyway, as the race entered the "finale" everyone was attacking into
the strong headwind trying to get away for the remaining placings. J-Mac
held off the hard charging field to win by 52 seconds. The picture on
Cyclingnews of his "posing" was classic! Veins and muscles bulging, he
looks totally pumped. I've never seen a finish line pose look quite
that... invigorated."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/georgia04/index.php?id=stage5/B85F6832
"Horner looked back, saw he had Grajales and nobody else, and went to
warp drive. VDB (the Postie), Bergman, myself, a dozen guys, we didn't
let up. No time to let the HR come down after the climb, just kept it
pegged, and even though a dozen guys were giving it their all, Horner
towed Grajales away from us like a motorcycle."
Nowhere near definitive unless you work for WADA...
Dan Connelly
Hardly. Any time he says someone is strong, that's an implicit doping
indicator? Heck, I can just look at results, then... (the one exception
MIGHT be that "veins bulging" comment, but that's a stretch).
Dan
Bob Schwartz
> Hardly. Any time he says someone is strong, that's an implicit doping
> indicator? Heck, I can just look at results, then... (the one exception
> MIGHT be that "veins bulging" comment, but that's a stretch).
Kunich can tell just by looking.
Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com
Bob Schwartz
> Horner
> McCartney (Hn)
> Sayers (Hn)
> Dominguez (Colavita)
> Haedo (Colavita)
> O'Neill (Colavita)
> And Adam Bergman (Jelly Belly) tested positive a second time
Bergman had some pretty amazing rides in Georgia so I
would not be surprised at all.
McCartney did too, and it hadn't struck me until now how
similar their histories are ie both made *huge* strides
in a short period of time.
If this plays out as advertised then there will be no
sweeping it under the rug.
Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com
Jim James
> sweeping it under the rug.
>
> Bob Schwartz
> cv...@execpc.com
If this plays out as advertised then we will know it WAS swept under
the rug. Nothing like postponing the media attention until after the
Games!
Jeff Jones
> before they are released.
>
Jeff