Svrn Nijs uses an altitude tent?
jerry in vermont
WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford. And
this is racing in the lowlands, so its doubley unfair ;)
Seriously, though, that is pathetic.
Nys explained his glamorous performance after the race: "Yesterday (in
Dottignies) I was already very good. When I came to Ruddervoorde I knew
I would be good as well. I've been sleeping in my special room which
simulates a high altitude. I'm competing near my maximum now and
apparently my race speed is just too high for the other riders ...
I'm eager for some races with mud as they should fit me even more!"
RonSonic
wrote:
Sure he could let up and still win. But how much can he ease off and keep
winning like he does? He doesn't know and he's afraid to find out.
Ron
John Forrest Tomlinson
<engenu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>from cyclingnews.com.
>
>WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
>it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford. And
>this is racing in the lowlands, so its doubley unfair ;)
>
>Seriously, though, that is pathetic.
It's not pathetic. It's the way it's done. I'd be dissapointed if a
top rider who had the means to use an altitude tent (or at least
altitude training) didn't do it. That's the point of top sport -- to
go all out to be the best.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
Andre
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2006 11:25:53 -0700, "jerry in vermont"
> <engenu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >from cyclingnews.com.
> >
> >WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
> >it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford. And
> >this is racing in the lowlands, so its doubley unfair ;)
> >
> >Seriously, though, that is pathetic.
>
> It's not pathetic. It's the way it's done. I'd be dissapointed if a
> top rider who had the means to use an altitude tent (or at least
> altitude training) didn't do it. That's the point of top sport -- to
> go all out to be the best.
Well said John. I have no idea what point Jerry in Vermont is trying to
make.
Andre
Kurgan Gringioni
jerry in vermont wrote:
> from cyclingnews.com.
>
> WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
> it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford.
<snip>
Dumbass -
They're not that expensive. Most Masters Fatties could get one by
trading in a tricked out bike.
And, if one really wants to get frugal, you can make your own, for not
that much $$$$. Just do a little searching on the pumps they use to
separate oxygen from air. Pump the oxygen depleted air into the tent,
the oxygen back into the room. Monitor the oxygen level and use
non-airtight zippers on the tent to keep it safe. The tent
manufacturers don't really "manufacture" anything - they just take
someone else's parts and assemble them for a different application.
I forgot though. Most bike racers are too stupid to execute a high
school level science project. Nevermind.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
ps. It's spelled "Sven"
Ewoud Dronkert
> ps. It's spelled "Sven"
Ah, but is it Nijs or Nys? I honestly don't know.
--
E. Dronkert
Kyle Legate
>
> Well said John. I have no idea what point Jerry in Vermont is trying to
> make.
>
Donald Munro
>> Well said John. I have no idea what point Jerry in Vermont is trying to
>> make.
Kyle Legate wrote:
> Jonathon Page can't afford an oxygen tent, and that's why he doesn't win.
He could go live at the top of Mt Washington. That is near Vermont isn't
it ?
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
I don't know either, but cyclingnews.com (not that dumbass J. Jones
knows anything either) is going w/ Nys.
Back on topic: the search to go with is: molecular sieve. About 5 years
ago the pumps could be had for around $1000 and the other stuff might
add another $500. In cyclingnews' Superprestige #1 coverage, Nys (sp?)
talks about his altitude room. That's about as easy as a tent. Just
caulk up all the baseboard, use weatherstripping on the windows along
with the interior door. Pump air through the molecular sieve, pump the
oxygen out the room, the depleted air into the room. Monitor the oxygen
levels for safety - that's the hardest part is making the pump
automatically shut off if the levels get too low, but it's child's play
for an electrical engineer.
And yes, jerry in vermont is an idiot, but what do you expect? He
worships bike racers.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
RicodJour
jerry in vermont wrote:
> from cyclingnews.com.
>
> WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
> it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford. And
> this is racing in the lowlands, so its doubley unfair ;)
>
> Seriously, though, that is pathetic.
Why? A competitive personality doesn't stop trying to get better, and,
last time I checked, cycling hadn't gone socialist. On the Fairness
Aggregate Transgression Scale (FATS) this ranks about 0.
R
jerry in vermont
why? cause having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
to monitor you blood levels, and then of course you are getting your
blood checked regularly, and on and on.
cyclocross has not really been about the drugs, and seems to be lagging
behind road in all this big money drug business, and has been more
about specializing and hard work.
Its like nukes, once one guy does it, then they all HAVE to do it. And
if the best guy does it, then the others think they have to do that and
then a little more, and on it goes. You think Lance didn't promote the
rise of drug use in the sport, just by being so dominant for so long?
You think Jan/tyler/floyd wanted to get on a medical program?
But with cross only a couple can afford that level, so its going to
widen the gap that the UCI is trying to close, and we will have an even
more Belgo-centric cross. Sorry african racers, have fun living in
that barn in Belgium.
I dont want to start THAT discussion, and for those who "dont know what
point" I am trying to make, its that this is the start of the end. Its
niave to say anyone at THAT level (ie UCI, tested, etc) can just run
out and buy a tent, and so its cheap. The tent is part and parcel with
the medical program. You cant just go letting your HCT run rampant can
you. And once you have the tent, and the blood doctor, and the desire,
its A SLIPPERY SLOPE of rationalization that leads from there.
That is my point. In summary, a two part point:
1. This is a sign of the start of organized doping in cross
2. This is the start of the Lance effect in cross
Blah blah blah Jonathan Page. Once again, I post about something to do
with CYCLOCROSS and no mention of or connection too JP, who is not even
fucking racing, and all we get is a bunch of posts about Page. Wasnt
me who said his name. Search my posts, its a very low percentage. I
post about cross, not about page, thank very fuckign much dumbasses.
RonSonic
wrote:
>
>RicodJour wrote:
>> jerry in vermont wrote:
>> > from cyclingnews.com.
>> >
>> > WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
>> > it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford. And
>> > this is racing in the lowlands, so its doubley unfair ;)
>> >
>> > Seriously, though, that is pathetic.
>>
>> Why? A competitive personality doesn't stop trying to get better, and,
>> last time I checked, cycling hadn't gone socialist. On the Fairness
>> Aggregate Transgression Scale (FATS) this ranks about 0.
>>
>> R
>
>why? cause having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
>to monitor you blood levels, and then of course you are getting your
>blood checked regularly, and on and on.
Not really, just an occasional test whether the room's working properly. HCT
isn't likely to go illegally high with a tent.
>cyclocross has not really been about the drugs, and seems to be lagging
>behind road in all this big money drug business, and has been more
>about specializing and hard work.
>
>Its like nukes, once one guy does it, then they all HAVE to do it. And
>if the best guy does it, then the others think they have to do that and
>then a little more, and on it goes.
You could say the same of off-season training, or quitting cigarettes.
>You think Lance didn't promote the
>rise of drug use in the sport, just by being so dominant for so long?
>You think Jan/tyler/floyd wanted to get on a medical program?
Jan was BORN into a medical program.
>But with cross only a couple can afford that level, so its going to
>widen the gap that the UCI is trying to close, and we will have an even
>more Belgo-centric cross. Sorry african racers, have fun living in
>that barn in Belgium.
>
>I dont want to start THAT discussion, and for those who "dont know what
>point" I am trying to make, its that this is the start of the end. Its
>niave to say anyone at THAT level (ie UCI, tested, etc) can just run
>out and buy a tent, and so its cheap. The tent is part and parcel with
>the medical program. You cant just go letting your HCT run rampant can
>you. And once you have the tent, and the blood doctor, and the desire,
>its A SLIPPERY SLOPE of rationalization that leads from there.
>
>That is my point. In summary, a two part point:
>
>1. This is a sign of the start of organized doping in cross
>2. This is the start of the Lance effect in cross
I'd argue that Sven is a freeking obsessive who would be doing any damn thing he
could to continue winning anyway.
>Blah blah blah Jonathan Page. Once again, I post about something to do
>with CYCLOCROSS and no mention of or connection too JP, who is not even
>fucking racing, and all we get is a bunch of posts about Page. Wasnt
>me who said his name. Search my posts, its a very low percentage. I
>post about cross, not about page, thank very fuckign much dumbasses.
Relax, they just like giving you crap over your man-crush.
Ron
Ewoud Dronkert
> 1. This is a sign of the start of organized doping in cross
Hah!
--
E. Dronkert
Kurgan Gringioni
jerry in vermont wrote:
>
> why? cause having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
> to monitor you blood levels, and then of course you are getting your
> blood checked regularly, and on and on.
That's bullshit. Guys who live in Colorado don't have to go into the
clinic every week.
> But with cross only a couple can afford that level, so its going to
> widen the gap that the UCI is trying to close,
That is also bullshit. Buying a tent is about as expensive as buying a
nice, new, state of the art bike and as I've posted elsewhere in this
thread it only costs about $1500 to make your own.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Bob Schwartz
> why? cause having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
> to monitor you blood levels, and then of course you are getting your
> blood checked regularly, and on and on.
http://www.labessentials.com/centrifuge.htm#Portable%20Centrifuges
Bob Schwartz
amit....@gmail.com
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> And yes, jerry in vermont is an idiot, but what do you expect? He
> worships bike racers.
dumbass,
what's surprising about this thread is that rbr wise guys like you and
JFT would bite on this lame troll.
amit....@gmail.com
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> Pump air through the molecular sieve, pump the
> oxygen out the room, the depleted air into the room.
you could ust light a match to get the oxygen out of the room.
jerry in vermont
you guys are all over this doping apparatus shit. I think you have a
skewed view of bike racers in general, confusing them with
techno-geeker usenet groupies who spend their time spoofing and tracing
ISP's and blah blah blah.
1. I dont think doping is that "pervasive" in cross, or MTB for that
matter, or domestic pro racing either, at this point. I think it IS
pervasive/widespread in euro based road racing. My 2 cents. Call me
niave. Of course its happening, I didnt say that - so dont bother with
the stupid flames, thanks.
2. I dont think biker racers are building tents off of parts they buy
online, and whipping up control systems for them with their electrical
engineering buds over beers. Nor do I think that they drawing and
measuring their own blood on little machines they google up off the
net. Maybe in Colorado that is what all the cool kids are doing, but I
dont believe it in the pros.
3. Pro racers who live in Colorado are running to the doc to get their
HCT checked all the time if they are naturally high to start with. It
would be irresponsible not to, and potentially career ending. Or they
did it so often they ended up getting a certificate like Vaughters did.
Seem to recall a little french girl with an altitude tent at sea level
being declared unfit to race at one time or another for high HCT. Bet
she wished she got that checked by her EPO doc.
If think they all go to bed with a needle in their ass and are busy
buying and building doping apparatus like a fucking basement meth lab,
then I guess I feel bad for you. Maybe consider a new sport.
J
b...@mambo.ucolick.org
> cyclocross has not really been about the drugs, and seems to be lagging
> behind road in all this big money drug business, and has been more
> about specializing and hard work.
Right, just ask Mario De Clercq.
> I dont want to start THAT discussion, and for those who "dont know what
> point" I am trying to make, its that this is the start of the end. Its
> niave to say anyone at THAT level (ie UCI, tested, etc) can just run
> out and buy a tent, and so its cheap. The tent is part and parcel with
> the medical program. You cant just go letting your HCT run rampant can
> you. And once you have the tent, and the blood doctor, and the desire,
> its A SLIPPERY SLOPE of rationalization that leads from there.
People who know about altitude tents (like Shaun Wallace and
Coggan) have posted here before about the effects. They are not
that large. I don't know if they are even a couple of points of HCT.
When GBShaun sells an altitude tent, he doesn't sell you a
doctor too. Does every bike racer living in Boulder or doing
altitude camps in the mountains (Colorado, the Alps, wherever)
do regular HCT testing?
The top crossers might all have staff doctors and get their
HCT checked and be on programs, but the fact that Nijs
has a tent is not a sign of that increasing (or decreasing).
Ben
jerry in vermont
b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> jerry in vermont wrote:
>
> > cyclocross has not really been about the drugs, and seems to be lagging
> > behind road in all this big money drug business, and has been
___more___
> > about specializing and hard work.
>
> Right, just ask Mario De Clercq.
>
guess you also missed the part where I said i know it happens, didnt
say it doesnt/hasnt. thanks though.
What initially set me off is the Nijs Nys Nees whatever has repeatedly
spouted off about how him winning too much is bad for the sport, and
IIRC even made the connection from that to his income potential, etc.
Yet he goes to the trouble of dealing with altitude tents for a minimal
gain.
Whatever, I gotta go ride my bike.
Ewoud Dronkert
> Yet he goes to the trouble of dealing with altitude tents for a minimal
> gain.
He's aiming for Bejing (MTB) and trying to build experience with the
perfect preparation.
--
E. Dronkert
Kurgan Gringioni
jerry in vermont wrote:
>
>
> 1. I dont think doping is that "pervasive" in cross, or MTB for that
> matter, or domestic pro racing either, at this point.
Dumbass -
You've got your head up your ass.
Google Danny De Bie or Jerome Chiotti. The emotional "rewards" are the
same in 'cross and MTB as they are for road cycling and the same in
North America as they are in Europe. The decision to use drugs is
mostly an emotional decision.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Kurgan Gringioni
jerry in vermont wrote:
>
> you guys are all over this doping apparatus shit. I think you have a
> skewed view of bike racers in general,
Dumbass -
No we don't. We know that bike racers are stupid.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Simon Brooke
vermont ('engenu...@hotmail.com') wrote:
> 1. I dont think doping is that "pervasive" in cross, or MTB for that
> matter, or domestic pro racing either, at this point. I think it IS
> pervasive/widespread in euro based road racing.
Yes, it's all these nasty dishonest cheating Europeans doing the dirty on
good, clean living American wimps^W cyclists. Of course Americans don't
cheat. The US Olympic cycling team have never pioneered blood doping, and
the coach of that team never went on to found a cycling team. Even if he
had, none of the members or ex members of that team would ever be found to
have doped. Uniquely in the world, US cyclists are clean, honourable,
upstanding men who achieve greatness through purity of heart and
dedication to the cause, entirely unaided by medical science...
Oh, and irony is like pewtery, only harder.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; All in all you're just another nick in the ball
-- Think Droid
John Forrest Tomlinson
>RicodJour wrote:
>> jerry in vermont wrote:
>> > from cyclingnews.com.
>> >
>> > WTF, that is pretty pathetic. Dude dominates, yet he still has to pour
>> > it on by using the tent, which no one else, hardly, can afford. And
>> > this is racing in the lowlands, so its doubley unfair ;)
>> >
>> > Seriously, though, that is pathetic.
>>
>> Why? A competitive personality doesn't stop trying to get better, and,
>> last time I checked, cycling hadn't gone socialist. On the Fairness
>> Aggregate Transgression Scale (FATS) this ranks about 0.
>>
>> R
>
>why? cause having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
>to monitor you blood levels, and then of course you are getting your
>blood checked regularly, and on and on.
>
>cyclocross has not really been about the drugs, and seems to be lagging
>behind road in all this big money drug business, and has been more
>about specializing and hard work.
What drugs? How is an altitude tent drugs? It's not drugs. it's a
place in which one sleeps.
aco...@earthlink.net
> having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
> to monitor you blood levels
Only if you were born with a naturally-high hematocrit. Otherwise,
using an altitude tent won't push you over the UCI limit.
> , and then of course you are getting your
> blood checked regularly, and on and on.
Having your blood checked regularly is a BAD thing??
> cyclocross has not really been about the drugs
WTF does an altitude tent have to do with drugs?
Andy Coggan
P.S. I'd loan Page my altitude tent, but I really don't care about
cyclocross, prefering instead to support deserving track racers...
Donald Munro
>>cyclocross has not really been about the drugs, and seems to be lagging
>>behind road in all this big money drug business, and has been more
>>about specializing and hard work.
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> What drugs? How is an altitude tent drugs? It's not drugs. it's a
> place in which one sleeps.
And its probably not a good place to smoke drugs in either.
Frank Drackman
<aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1161120281.6...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
At this point I think that he needs a good PT more than a tent.
RicodJour
>
> What drugs? How is an altitude tent drugs? It's not drugs. it's a
> place in which one sleeps.
You've never heard of the band Sweet? They covered all of this in
their song, Love is Like Oxygen.
Love is like oxygen
You get too much you get too high
If that's not a drug, I don't know what is.
R
dbrower
Let's start with whatever you were taking that said using Sweet lyrics
was good place to find a scientific definition. :-/
-dB
Mark Fennell
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> What drugs? How is an altitude tent drugs? It's not drugs. it's a
>> place in which one sleeps.
> You've never heard of the band Sweet? They covered all of this in
> their song, Love is Like Oxygen.
>
> Love is like oxygen
> You get too much you get too high
>
...and "Love is the Drug" (Roxy Music),
so, Tent ==Oxygen==Love==Drug. QED
Bob Schwartz
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> jerry in vermont wrote:
>>> why? cause having an O2 tent means you have also got a doctor on staff
>>> to monitor you blood levels, and then of course you are getting your
>>> blood checked regularly, and on and on.
>> http://www.labessentials.com/centrifuge.htm#Portable%20Centrifuges
>>
>> Bob Schwartz
>
> you guys are all over this doping apparatus shit. I think you have a
> skewed view of bike racers in general, confusing them with
> techno-geeker usenet groupies who spend their time spoofing and tracing
> ISP's and blah blah blah.
The reason I knew to google for cheap, portable hematocrit testers
is because... I know someone who has one. And he's not a pro. Kurgan
is dead on regarding the motivations for doping.
> 2. I dont think biker racers are building tents off of parts they buy
> online, and whipping up control systems for them with their electrical
> engineering buds over beers. Nor do I think that they drawing and
> measuring their own blood on little machines they google up off the
> net.
Heh.
Bob Schwartz
Michael Press
<1161089638....@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
"jerry in vermont" <engenu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sierraman?
--
Michael Press
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
I think poor ol' jerry may actually be serious.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Donald Munro
> Heh.
Translation from the Dutch Hah ?
burt....@gmail.com
of doping in sport, and we should do everthing legally and ethically
possible to get rid of it.
That being said, when pople like Dick Pound and Pat McQuaid ignore
their own rules, attempt to try people publically instead of allowing
cases to be adjucated in the proper forums, and basically mouth off in
a way which ignores any concept of "innocent until proven guilty," it
makes a mockery of the entire testing process. The documented issues
with the lab and the tests (especially in the Landis case) only
compounds the problem.
Right now, I'm as disgusted with WADA and the UCI as I am the cyclists
who really are cheating.
Kyle Legate
>
> What initially set me off is the Nijs Nys Nees whatever has repeatedly
> spouted off about how him winning too much is bad for the sport, and
> IIRC even made the connection from that to his income potential, etc.
> Yet he goes to the trouble of dealing with altitude tents for a minimal
> gain.
>
with a high hematocrit sometime in the future. He lets "altitude tent"
escape from his lips in one interview and now he doesn't have to worry
about tifosi murmuring about EPO when he makes a mistake in the timing
of the microdoses.
Sounds like excellent, below radar ass-covering to me.
Ryan Cousineau
JT, Mr. Pound would like a word with you. He seems to think bringing an
altitude tent into the bedroom constitutes an unnatural act.
He's just trying to preserve our precious bodily fluids,
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos