A question for the Danielson tifosi
Bob Schwartz
years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
Discovery.
He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
right now.
He's spent the last four seasons riding for teams (Fassa
Bortolo and Discovery) with entries in the Tour and not
once has he been put on the start list. Whatever anyone
may think of Bruyneel, he knows a thing or two about
doing well in the Tour.
Come on now, admit it. His palmares are pretty light.
Come on now, admit it. He's not very good at riding his
bike.
Come on now, admit it. He doesn't win very often.
My question is this. How long is it going to take for
you guys to accept that his role is to dominate the minor
leagues of the domestic US road circuit? Like Gord Fraser,
who didn't win anything for years and then came to the US
and won everything in sight.
Just curious,
Bob Schwartz
Steven L. Sheffield
csXCi.1526$FO2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net, "Bob Schwartz"
<bob.sc...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
I used to think like you ... But after reading about his giardia problems,
which have plagued him for the past 2-3 years, I'm inclined to cut him a
little slack.
If he's managed two top-10 finishes at the Vuelta, while harboring this bug,
imagine what he might have been able to do had he been 100% ... this year's
Vuelta would likely have been that chance to show what he can really do when
he's healthy; unfortunately, now we'll have to wait and see what Slipstream
has in mind.
No ... I don't think he's the next Lance, and God forbid that he become the
next LeMond; but could he become the next Andy Hampsten?
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
Donald Munro
> No ... I don't think he's the next Lance, and God forbid that he become the
> next LeMond; but could he become the next Andy Hampsten?
You mean you're predicting he's going to win a blizzard ridden
stage over the Gavia in the giro ? One in which no one from Holland
has a chance of winning ?
PS Just for Ewoud:
http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/true-stories-andy-hampsten-the-gavia-1988-12016
r15...@aol.com
wrote:
> On 09/03/2007 11:25 AM, in article
Could be. I don't know about winning the Giro but he's going to be a
good bet for stage wins in grand tours. IMO he is already one of the
best all-time American climbers, more talent even than Hampsten, more
than Vaughters.
Bob Schwartz
> Could be. I don't know about winning the Giro but he's going to be a
> good bet for stage wins in grand tours. IMO he is already one of the
> best all-time American climbers, more talent even than Hampsten, more
> than Vaughters.
By the time Hampsten was Danielson's age he had already won
a number of climbing prizes including multiple Tours de
Suisse and several Grand Tour mountain stages including the
epic Gavia Pass stage in the 1988 Giro.
Just wanted to point that out.
Bob Schwartz
brian_...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
that won that Gavia stage.....
Bob Schwartz
> I used to think like you ... But after reading about his giardia problems,
> which have plagued him for the past 2-3 years, I'm inclined to cut him a
> little slack.
>
> If he's managed two top-10 finishes at the Vuelta, while harboring this bug,
> imagine what he might have been able to do had he been 100% ... this year's
> Vuelta would likely have been that chance to show what he can really do when
> he's healthy; unfortunately, now we'll have to wait and see what Slipstream
> has in mind.
The giardia was this past spring. And he has my sympathy for that.
The cure has been described as every bit as nasty as the illness.
He's apparently also had some Asian bug since 2003, whose impact
was subtle enough that he didn't know it was there.
Bob Schwartz
DirtRoadie
wrote:
> The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
> years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
> Discovery.
> He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
> right now.
He did start late, but yes he should be at or near his peak. He may in
fact be. However this season has hardly been one where he had the
opportunity to show it
> He's spent the last four seasons riding for teams (Fassa
> Bortolo and Discovery) with entries in the Tour and not
> once has he been put on the start list. Whatever anyone
> may think of Bruyneel, he knows a thing or two about
> doing well in the Tour.
When Tom was with them, Fassa put together a sprinters team to support
Petacchi. No climbers or GC contenders needed. When he moved to
Discovery he was still a bit of an unknown for grand tours, so they
kept him out of the big show.
> Come on now, admit it. His palmares are pretty light.
OK. But hardly invisible.
> Come on now, admit it. He's not very good at riding his bike.
Um, what?
> Come on now, admit it. He doesn't win very often.
Nor do most pros.
> My question is this. How long is it going to take for
> you guys to accept that his role is to dominate the minor
> leagues of the domestic US road circuit? Like Gord Fraser,
> who didn't win anything for years and then came to the US
> and won everything in sight.
I'll wait until his retirement and see how it all worked out. That's
why racing is racing. Mere opinions don't count for much.
DR
Bob Schwartz
> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
> that won that Gavia stage.....
Some trolls are more subtle than others.
Bob Schwartz
Donald Munro
>> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
>> that won that Gavia stage.....
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Some trolls are more subtle than others.
Dutch trolls are as subtle as their cuisine.
Ewoud Dronkert
> By the time Hampsten was Danielson's age he had already won
> a number of climbing prizes including multiple Tours de
> Suisse and several Grand Tour mountain stages including the
> epic Gavia Pass stage in the 1988 Giro.
Please. I said no jokes for a week or so.
--
E. Dronkert
Dan Connelly
> On Sep 3, 11:25 am, Bob Schwartz <bob.schwa...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
>> years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
>> Discovery.
>
>> He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
>> right now.
>
> He did start late, but yes he should be at or near his peak. He may in
> fact be. However this season has hardly been one where he had the
> opportunity to show it
"Near"? The canonical age of retirement is 32. That's a rather tight peak, if most riders don't reach it by 29.
I still recall CBS coverage of Paris-Roubaix in 1988. Describing Dirk Demol: "At 28, old for a cyclist." That was a bit laughable. But 29 is hardly pre-peak, physically.
Dan
DirtRoadie
wrote:
> DirtRoadie wrote:
> > He did start late, but yes he should be at or near his peak. He may in
> > fact be. However this season has hardly been one where he had the
> > opportunity to show it
>
> "Near"? The canonical age of retirement is 32. That's a rather tight peak, if most riders don't reach it by 29.
>
> I still recall CBS coverage of Paris-Roubaix in 1988. Describing Dirk Demol: "At 28, old for a cyclist." That was a bit laughable. But 29 is hardly pre-peak, physically.
Well, I would offer Levi as an example. I would say he peaked this
year - and he's 4-1/2 years older than Danielson. Clearly the clock
is ticking for Danielson, but it has not stopped.
DR
Howard Kveck
Donald Munro <fat-d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hold the mayo?
--
tanx,
Howard
Fabergé eggs are elegant but I prefer Fabergé bacon.
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Ryan Cousineau
Howard Kveck <YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <46ddabde$0$31166$ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com>,
> Donald Munro <fat-d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > brian_...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
> > >> that won that Gavia stage.....
> >
> > Bob Schwartz wrote:
> > > Some trolls are more subtle than others.
> >
> > Dutch trolls are as subtle as their cuisine.
>
> Hold the mayo?
You're stealing WADA's lines, now.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
Ewoud Dronkert
> The canonical age of retirement is 32.
It is? I'd've said 36 or 37. But maybe my perception is skewed by
classy riders holding out longer.
--
E. Dronkert
DA74
wrote:
Here's a handy Pro Cyclist Retirement Age Chart for you guys:
Canonical age of retirement = 32 = Pre EPO / HGH
Modern "classy rider" age of retirement = 36/37 = Amgen / Eli Lilly
assisted
Thanks,
The Canonical DA74, lacking Class as per usual
r15...@aol.com
wrote:
No doubt someone has already pointed out your very common error in
above statement.
I know what Hampster did but I don't see him throwing down a 1:42 on
Evans, guess we'll never know. TD will be at his best in 4 years or
so, and had form to win stages this year. Guess we'll never know that
either.
Bob Schwartz
> I know what Hampster did but I don't see him throwing down a 1:42 on
> Evans, guess we'll never know. TD will be at his best in 4 years or
> so, and had form to win stages this year. Guess we'll never know that
> either.
Dumbass,
One of my points was that Danielson has time on his hands
in July to do citizen races like Evans. That's not
consistent with being one of the best American climbers
ever, and not something that Hampsten had available to
him.
Bob Schwartz
Steven L. Sheffield
46dd6467$0$31176$ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com, "Donald Munro"
<fat-d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Now that's just friggin' hysterical!
Steven L. Sheffield
eJfDi.23900$eY....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net, "Bob Schwartz"
<bob.sc...@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/aug07/aug03news2
"I was scared. I was scared for my health. I was scared for my career," he
said in an interview with Colorado's Durango Herald. "I didn't know what was
going on."
Danielson had been having stomach problems since 2004, and even repeated
visits to various emergency rooms were unable to pinpoint the problem. "It
was really frustrating, to be sick and not be able to train. I mean, I got
so sick that I thought I was going to die or something. The symptoms for
what I had ranged from a parasite or something like this all the way to
cancer."
[snip]
The ultimate diagnosis was Giardia, an intestinal illness caused by a
microscopic parasite. According to the US Food and Drug Administration,
*** "Normally illness lasts for one to two weeks, but THERE ARE CASES OF
CHRONIC INFECTIONS LASTING MONTHS TO YEARS." ***
The latter seems to apply to Danielson. He apparently picked the bug up when
he won the Tour of Langkawi in Malaysia in 2003. "From when I did Malaysia
back in '03, from then on we've kind of had this documented history of these
weird symptoms," he said.
Steven L. Sheffield
1188976390....@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "DA74"
<davida...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 5, 12:03 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid>
> wrote:
>> Dan Connelly wrote:
>>> The canonical age of retirement is 32.
>>
>> It is? I'd've said 36 or 37. But maybe my perception is skewed by
>> classy riders holding out longer.
>>
>> --
>> E. Dronkert
>
>
> Here's a handy Pro Cyclist Retirement Age Chart for you guys:
>
> Canonical age of retirement = 32 = Pre EPO / HGH
> Modern "classy rider" age of retirement = 36/37 = Amgen / Eli Lilly
> assisted
Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle, born 1954. Retired in 1995 at the age of 41. So he
was 32 in 1986, LONG BEFORE EPO/HGH were commonly used.
Ewoud Dronkert
> PS Just for Ewoud:
> http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/true-stories-andy-hampsten-the-gavia-1988-12016
Argh.
Well, here's a link that will hopefully be picked up by Google Images.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ewoud/cycling/giro_gavia_breukink_vandevelde_1.jpg
--
E. Dronkert
Bob Schwartz
That differs markedly from
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13186.0.html
"Doctors in Colorado deciphered that Danielson was whacked by
a parasitic double whammy and was actually suffering from two
intestinal bugs at once.
The first was a relatively easy-to-detect case of Giardia, a
microscopic protozoan parasite which infected his gastrointestinal
system that Danielson suspects he picked up riding on manure-
laden roads this spring in Spain's Catalunya.
The other was a still-unknown parasite that doctors guess entered
Danielson's system while he won the Tour of Malaysia back in 2003.
Were it not for the severe diarrhea that plagued him this spring,
however, doctors might not have ever found the Asian parasite."
Bob Schwartz
Carl Sundquist
"Steven L. Sheffield" <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote in message
news:C30410F1.62753%ste...@veloworks.com...
> On 09/05/2007 01:13 AM, in article
> 1188976390....@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com, "DA74"
> <davida...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 5, 12:03 am, Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> Dan Connelly wrote:
>>>> The canonical age of retirement is 32.
>>>
>>> It is? I'd've said 36 or 37. But maybe my perception is skewed by
>>> classy riders holding out longer.
>>>
>>> --
>>> E. Dronkert
>>
>>
>> Here's a handy Pro Cyclist Retirement Age Chart for you guys:
>>
>> Canonical age of retirement = 32 = Pre EPO / HGH
>> Modern "classy rider" age of retirement = 36/37 = Amgen / Eli Lilly
>> assisted
>
>
> Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle, born 1954. Retired in 1995 at the age of 41. So
> he
> was 32 in 1986, LONG BEFORE EPO/HGH were commonly used.
>
Fred Rompelburg
Joaquim Agostinho
Joop (TIOOYK)
Bob Schwartz
Maybe you should create a Wikipedia entry that matches your view
of reality.
Bob Schwartz
Donald Munro
> Maybe you should create a Wikipedia entry that matches your view
> of reality.
I hope Kunich doesn't take your advice.
SLAVE of THE STATE
wrote:
> Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
> > On 09/04/2007 10:28 AM, in article
>
> "Doctors in Colorado deciphered that Danielson was whacked by
> a parasitic double whammy and was actually suffering from two
> intestinal bugs at once.
>
> The first was a relatively easy-to-detect case of Giardia, a
> microscopic protozoan parasite which infected his gastrointestinal
> system that Danielson suspects he picked up riding on manure-
> laden roads this spring in Spain's Catalunya.
>
> The other was a still-unknown parasite that doctors guess entered
> Danielson's system while he won the Tour of Malaysia back in 2003.
>
> Were it not for the severe diarrhea that plagued him this spring,
> however, doctors might not have ever found the Asian parasite."
I guess giardia is ruled out as performance enhancing unless one
enters a pooping contest.
Ryan Cousineau
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> > "Doctors in Colorado deciphered that Danielson was whacked by
> > a parasitic double whammy and was actually suffering from two
> > intestinal bugs at once.
> >
> > The first was a relatively easy-to-detect case of Giardia, a
> > microscopic protozoan parasite which infected his gastrointestinal
> > system that Danielson suspects he picked up riding on manure-
> > laden roads this spring in Spain's Catalunya.
> >
> > The other was a still-unknown parasite that doctors guess entered
> > Danielson's system while he won the Tour of Malaysia back in 2003.
> >
> > Were it not for the severe diarrhea that plagued him this spring,
> > however, doctors might not have ever found the Asian parasite."
>
> I guess giardia is ruled out as performance enhancing unless one
> enters a pooping contest.
Are you kidding? The weight loss!
It's like natural ephedra,
Tom Kunich
news:p2lsd3lq60r9r601h...@4ax.com...
Without a doubt Ewoud writes better English than most of the native speakers
here.
r15...@aol.com
wrote:
dumbass, give him a break, he's had giardia. The fact that TD has been
out of some tours might mean his effective career will last a bit
longer than most racers.
Anyway, Hampster did race Evans, and he didn't post no 1:43.
Ryan Cousineau
The Netherlands is an English-speaking country.
You can't fool me,
Donald Munro
> The Netherlands is an English-speaking country.
> You can't fool me,
You're a real sucker for beer. I bet all your wife had to do
was feed you one beer to pick you up at the singles bar.
Bob Schwartz
> dumbass, give him a break, he's had giardia. The fact that TD has been
> out of some tours might mean his effective career will last a bit
> longer than most racers.
Just to be clear, I am not dumping on Danielson. I think he has
done the best he could with what he's got. I have no reason to
believe otherwise.
I am dumping on tifosi like yourself, people that talk nonsense
based on non-existent results. People that are ready to put him
into the hall of fame because of good performances in citizen
races and other races that the real racers don't show up to. For
whatever reason, TD has a lot of fans that are out of touch with
reality. And I'm grateful for that, you guys are good entertainment.
Bob Schwartz
Donald Munro
> And I'm grateful for that, you guys are good entertainment.
You need to get laid more often.
r15...@aol.com
> Just to be clear, I am not dumping on Danielson. I think he has
> done the best he could with what he's got. I have no reason to
> believe otherwise.
>
> I am dumping on tifosi like yourself, people that talk nonsense
> based on non-existent results. People that are ready to put him
> into the hall of fame because of good performances in citizen
> races and other races that the real racers don't show up to. For
> whatever reason, TD has a lot of fans that are out of touch with
> reality. And I'm grateful for that, you guys are good entertainment.
>
> Bob Schwartz
Dumbass,
Stop being a retard. TD has a long way to go to match the achievements
of Hampsten, probably never will, but he's already proved that he's
one of the fastest ever American climbers.
Robert
Fred Fredburger
Words we can all live by.
Fred Fredburger
That's pretty kind of her, considering how mad she was to find him
hanging out there.
William Asher
And just how drunk would you have to be to hit on your own wife at the
singles bar? Would you wake up the next morning, recognize who was in bed
with you and try to sneak out of your own house so you could show up later
and say you spent the night at a friend's because you were too drunk to
drive?
--
Bill Asher
Ryan Cousineau
Donald Munro <fat-d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
She had me at hello.
Ryan Cousineau
William Asher <gcn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
If you see your wife at a singles bar, hitting on her is the only safe
recovery for either of you.
That said, both my wife and I have a pathetically, notoriously low
alcohol capacity.
My recent knowledge of singles bars is entirely theoretical, you
understand,
William Asher
<snip>
>
> That said, both my wife and I have a pathetically, notoriously low
> alcohol capacity.
>
It makes the LIVEDRUNK(tm) easier on the wallet though.
--
Bill Asher
Bob Schwartz
You guys don't tap a foot while you read news, do you?
Bob Schwartz