The junior track program at Hellyer Park Velodrome (San Jose) is fantastic... open to anyone 10-15 years old, and the guys running it (Rob Jensen, Glenn Kubacki, Steven Woo and Andrew Lanier) make sure everyone has a great time, regardless of their skill levels.
I've been working on my son for a while, trying to get him away from video games and into riding a bike, and was making pretty slow progress... until I got him to the track. He loves it. And now he's even got the racing bug. He's got a long way to go (TV, video games & junk food aren't good for the body), but this past Sunday, I saw real hope. Why?
Because in the win & out, and somewhat longer event that starts with 6 laps before getting to the sprints, he worked himself hard enough that he threw up about halfway through... and kept going. That, in my book, is cool. He's no longer laughing at Dad's oft-repeated remark "That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." Now he believes.
> The junior track program at Hellyer Park Velodrome (San Jose) is > fantastic... open to anyone 10-15 years old, and the guys running it (Rob > Jensen, Glenn Kubacki, Steven Woo and Andrew Lanier) make sure everyone has > a great time, regardless of their skill levels.
> I've been working on my son for a while, trying to get him away from video > games and into riding a bike, and was making pretty slow progress... until I > got him to the track. He loves it. And now he's even got the racing bug. > He's got a long way to go (TV, video games & junk food aren't good for the > body), but this past Sunday, I saw real hope. Why?
> Because in the win & out, and somewhat longer event that starts with 6 laps > before getting to the sprints, he worked himself hard enough that he threw > up about halfway through... and kept going. That, in my book, is cool. He's > no longer laughing at Dad's oft-repeated remark "That which doesn't kill > you, makes you stronger." Now he believes.
> The junior track program at Hellyer Park Velodrome (San Jose) is > fantastic... open to anyone 10-15 years old, and the guys running it (Rob > Jensen, Glenn Kubacki, Steven Woo and Andrew Lanier) make sure everyone has > a great time, regardless of their skill levels.
> I've been working on my son for a while, trying to get him away from video > games and into riding a bike, and was making pretty slow progress... until I > got him to the track. He loves it. And now he's even got the racing bug. > He's got a long way to go (TV, video games & junk food aren't good for the > body), but this past Sunday, I saw real hope. Why?
> Because in the win & out, and somewhat longer event that starts with 6 laps > before getting to the sprints, he worked himself hard enough that he threw > up about halfway through... and kept going. That, in my book, is cool. He's > no longer laughing at Dad's oft-repeated remark "That which doesn't kill > you, makes you stronger." Now he believes.
> On Mar 7, 3:02 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > The junior track program at Hellyer Park Velodrome (San Jose) is > > fantastic... open to anyone 10-15 years old, and the guys running it (Rob > > Jensen, Glenn Kubacki, Steven Woo and Andrew Lanier) make sure everyone has > > a great time, regardless of their skill levels.
> > I've been working on my son for a while, trying to get him away from video > > games and into riding a bike, and was making pretty slow progress... until I > > got him to the track. He loves it. And now he's even got the racing bug. > > He's got a long way to go (TV, video games & junk food aren't good for the > > body), but this past Sunday, I saw real hope. Why?
> > Because in the win & out, and somewhat longer event that starts with 6 laps > > before getting to the sprints, he worked himself hard enough that he threw > > up about halfway through... and kept going. That, in my book, is cool. He's > > no longer laughing at Dad's oft-repeated remark "That which doesn't kill > > you, makes you stronger." Now he believes.
On Mar 7, 8:46 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <p...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> Take my advice and buy a bike instead..- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Are we back to the "Cycling causes impotency" thread again? ;-) If your somewhere reasonably safe, it's really cool to have the kids, get a trailer that's a little bit too big and set it up as a "nest" for the kid/s and use it as much as you can. We set ours up with blankets, pillows, snacks, books, toys, and a radio/cassette player for music or stories and did picnics, rides, back and forth to school, shopping, you name it with it. Got a pretty decent hybrid with a triple, slightly agressive tires so we could go off-road too and had a blast with it. It also converted as a stroller you could run with too. The kids absolutely loved it, it was practical, it left the car home, and it got the family more good time together. That was some of the most fun I've ever had on a bike, and gets cycling started early, in a positive way for the kids. It does point out the passing years though when those same kids just leave you for dead on every little hill on their own bikes later though. Nothing like having to beg your kid to wait for you at the top!! Bill C
> Are we back to the "Cycling causes impotency" thread again? ;-) > If your somewhere reasonably safe, it's really cool to have the kids, > get a trailer that's a little bit too big and set it up as a "nest" > for the kid/s and use it as much as you can. > We set ours up with blankets, pillows, snacks, books, toys, and a > radio/cassette player for music or stories and did picnics, rides, > back and forth to school, shopping, you name it with it. > Got a pretty decent hybrid with a triple, slightly agressive tires so > we could go off-road too and had a blast with it. It also converted as > a stroller you could run with too. > The kids absolutely loved it, it was practical, it left the car home, > and it got the family more good time together. That was some of the > most fun I've ever had on a bike, and gets cycling started early, in a > positive way for the kids.
I remember using that setup to get my daughter to day care. She'd be in the back, cracking the whip as it were, by yelling "go Daddy GO! go Daddy GO!"
You can do surprisingly well with one of those rigs, once you can accept what I call "Mule mode" and just hunker down. You can even climb reasonably well, although at a much lower speed. Took about two weeks to really get used to it, if I recall correctly. Unfortunately, it did *not* get my daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who was having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
> It does point out the passing years though when those same kids just > leave you for dead on every little hill on their own bikes later > though. Nothing like having to beg your kid to wait for you at the > top!! > Bill C
Right now I'm living for that day. Ironically, as I spend more time on the bike with my son, that day will come sooner, not later, because I'm not getting in the type of riding I normally would. No more AltoVelo A rides, sniff. But in a couple years, I'd love to take him to France to see the 'Tour.
> The junior track program at Hellyer Park Velodrome (San Jose) is > fantastic... open to anyone 10-15 years old, and the guys running it (Rob > Jensen, Glenn Kubacki, Steven Woo and Andrew Lanier) make sure everyone has > a great time, regardless of their skill levels.
> I've been working on my son for a while, trying to get him away from video > games and into riding a bike, and was making pretty slow progress... until I > got him to the track. He loves it. And now he's even got the racing bug. > He's got a long way to go (TV, video games & junk food aren't good for the > body), but this past Sunday, I saw real hope. Why?
> Because in the win & out, and somewhat longer event that starts with 6 laps > before getting to the sprints, he worked himself hard enough that he threw > up about halfway through... and kept going. That, in my book, is cool. He's > no longer laughing at Dad's oft-repeated remark "That which doesn't kill > you, makes you stronger." Now he believes.
> My wife, of course, thinks we're both crazy.
> Life is good.
If he likes the Win-And-Out -- probably the most demoralizing, anticlimactic and (IMHO) stupid event in track racing -- then he must really be hooked.
> On Mar 7, 8:46 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <p...@vecchios.com> > wrote:
> > Take my advice and buy a bike instead..- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Are we back to the "Cycling causes impotency" thread again? ;-) > If your somewhere reasonably safe, it's really cool to have the kids, > get a trailer that's a little bit too big and set it up as a "nest" > for the kid/s and use it as much as you can. > We set ours up with blankets, pillows, snacks, books, toys, and a > radio/cassette player for music or stories and did picnics, rides, > back and forth to school, shopping, you name it with it. > Got a pretty decent hybrid with a triple, slightly agressive tires so > we could go off-road too and had a blast with it. It also converted as > a stroller you could run with too. > The kids absolutely loved it, it was practical, it left the car home, > and it got the family more good time together. That was some of the > most fun I've ever had on a bike, and gets cycling started early, in a > positive way for the kids. > It does point out the passing years though when those same kids just > leave you for dead on every little hill on their own bikes later > though. Nothing like having to beg your kid to wait for you at the > top!! > Bill C
Not what I meant at all. Cycling aside, kids are their own special problems..."parents are the stone that children cut their teeth on"...hardest job there is.
G <mgl...@mindspring.com.invalid> wrote: > In article <4kuHh.2951$tv6.2...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net>, > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > The junior track program at Hellyer Park Velodrome (San Jose) is > > fantastic... open to anyone 10-15 years old, and the guys running it (Rob > > Jensen, Glenn Kubacki, Steven Woo and Andrew Lanier) make sure everyone has > > a great time, regardless of their skill levels.
> > I've been working on my son for a while, trying to get him away from video > > games and into riding a bike, and was making pretty slow progress... until > > I > > got him to the track. He loves it. And now he's even got the racing bug. > > He's got a long way to go (TV, video games & junk food aren't good for the > > body), but this past Sunday, I saw real hope. Why?
> > Because in the win & out, and somewhat longer event that starts with 6 laps > > before getting to the sprints, he worked himself hard enough that he threw > > up about halfway through... and kept going. That, in my book, is cool. He's > > no longer laughing at Dad's oft-repeated remark "That which doesn't kill > > you, makes you stronger." Now he believes.
> > My wife, of course, thinks we're both crazy.
> > Life is good.
> If he likes the Win-And-Out -- probably the most demoralizing, > anticlimactic and (IMHO) stupid event in track racing -- then he must > really be hooked.
Hey I like win and Outs. I like reverse Win and Outs even better though. A reverse win and out is where the first sprint if for 5th place, the second sprint is for 4th place and the final sprint is for 1st. Needless to say the best riders don't go for the first few sprints. This gives riders who normally don;t have a chance to place in a regular sprint the chance to win a sprint. Of course if you have 4 good sprinters they all cant win the final sprint for 1st so it becomes a game of how confident ae you in your ability to beat the remaining riders since you could be the best sprinter but end up not placing at all if you don't win that final sprint.
>> If he likes the Win-And-Out -- probably the most demoralizing, >> anticlimactic and (IMHO) stupid event in track racing -- then he must >> really be hooked.
> Hey I like win and Outs. I like reverse Win and Outs even better > though. A reverse win and out is where the first sprint if for 5th > place, the second sprint is for 4th place and the final sprint is for > 1st. Needless to say the best riders don't go for the first few > sprints. This gives riders who normally don;t have a chance to place in > a regular sprint the chance to win a sprint. Of course if you have 4 > good sprinters they all cant win the final sprint for 1st so it becomes > a game of how confident ae you in your ability to beat the remaining > riders since you could be the best sprinter but end up not placing at > all if you don't win that final sprint.
That sounds like an interesting event, but could be a bit difficult to explain to the younger folk.
For now, I've got him psyched up for the Canada Road time trial on March 17th. 9.7 miles. He knows his time is going to get blown away, but he's still looking forward to half an hour of suffering. Not sure whether I should sign up for it myself or not; I'd rather it was all about him, not me.
> If he likes the Win-And-Out -- probably the most demoralizing, > anticlimactic and (IMHO) stupid event in track racing -- then he must > really be hooked.
> Now, the MISS-AND-OUT -- that's an EVENT!!!
Ouch. I remember those. Actually, don't recall that I crashed on the track much, if at all. Then again, I wasn't a sprinter back then, so I'd usually try to catch people off guard and do a 4k on my own. That hurt! Especially if (if?) you got caught.
I miss the old days, when there was a very strong, adversarial relationship between those who were roadies vs trackies. We'd invade the track and do whatever damage we could, but truthfully, we were jealous of their wimpy training schedules (compared to that of a Cat 1/2, or even a successful junior). We'd extract whatever revenge we could when they'd show up on our turf, but, alas, the joke was often on us. Unless they were foolish enough to show up for a race with hills, of course.
On Mar 7, 3:03 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> For now, I've got him psyched up for the Canada Road time trial on March > 17th. 9.7 miles. He knows his time is going to get blown away, but he's > still looking forward to half an hour of suffering. Not sure whether I > should sign up for it myself or not; I'd rather it was all about him, not > me.
Growing up, my father got me into martial arts much like you're getting your son into this. Being an already accomplished martial artist he ran into the same dilemma at tournaments.
I found that when he could compete in his own class and we could watch each other, it made the experience solid gold. We'd both have stories, we both had that same rush & sense of accomplishment, it was more of a "together" thing for me, and as a result bonding for us.
When he didn't compete and just watched me instead, it wasn't quite as fun. I felt more pressure (even though he didn't impose any), and more like he was doing something for me than we were doing something together. I realize now that he was doing something for himself in watching me, but at the time I didn't have that concept. I actually didn't even start to grasp the parent thing until about a year ago, and I'm still getting it day by day.
When we had to miss each others fights & katas it was a mild disappointment, but I guess that's part of growing up?
I'm not going to give you parenting advice, as I'm not a parent myself. I will say this: Looking back, I think my dad may have chosen some of the classes & events he competed in within a specific tournament day based more on how they'd interact with my schedule and events than on which events may have been best matched for him. I'll have to find out, and thank him if I'm right.
Glad to hear you're out there with him, pedaling or on the sidelines.
> I found that when he could compete in his own class and we could watch > each other, it made the experience solid gold. We'd both have > stories, we both had that same rush & sense of accomplishment, it was > more of a "together" thing for me, and as a result bonding for us.
I've been thinking the same thing. Main thing I want to avoid is being out there on the course at the same time, and having to blow past him if he was ahead of me. Tough one; if I went first, it would be kinda fun because I'd see him on the return, but I'd like to be with him there at the start. Guess I'll just sign up too and see where the chips fall (starting times are emailed a couple days before the event).
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: >> I found that when he could compete in his own class and we could watch >> each other, it made the experience solid gold. We'd both have >> stories, we both had that same rush & sense of accomplishment, it was >> more of a "together" thing for me, and as a result bonding for us.
> I've been thinking the same thing. Main thing I want to avoid is being out > there on the course at the same time, and having to blow past him if he was > ahead of me. Tough one; if I went first, it would be kinda fun because I'd > see him on the return, but I'd like to be with him there at the start. Guess > I'll just sign up too and see where the chips fall (starting times are > emailed a couple days before the event).
On Mar 7, 11:53 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <M...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> > I found that when he could compete in his own class and we could watch > > each other, it made the experience solid gold. We'd both have > > stories, we both had that same rush & sense of accomplishment, it was > > more of a "together" thing for me, and as a result bonding for us.
> I've been thinking the same thing. Main thing I want to avoid is being out > there on the course at the same time, and having to blow past him if he was > ahead of me. Tough one; if I went first, it would be kinda fun because I'd > see him on the return, but I'd like to be with him there at the start. Guess > I'll just sign up too and see where the chips fall (starting times are > emailed a couple days before the event).
I'm sure they would let you juggle your spot to accomodate.
Something I like to point out to new riders is a quote from Greg Lemond: "It doesn't get any easier. You just go faster." I break it to them gently, so they don't give up too easily, disappointed that it still hurts even after they have been doing it for a while.
> daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off > training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who was > having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three > blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels ? I have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer he was still riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
>> daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off >> training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who > was >> having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three >> blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
> Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels ? I > have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer he was still > riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
On Mar 9, 6:34 am, "Charles" <guyonab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off > > training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who > was > > having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three > > blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
> Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels ? I > have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer he was still > riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
I taught him to ride by never using training wheels. I jogged alongside holding his jacket clenched in my fist between the shoulder blades and I steered him that way, and kept him from falling. It was up to him to steer the bike and keep it upright. I've tried one of those bars you attach to the back but that way I was always supporting the bike, and it seemed like he wasn't "getting it" about how the bike constantly wobbles back and forth beneath him. Something that they figure out quicker in my experience if they have to control the bike.
Thick clothes makes spills less traumatic, and gloves makes a huge difference. Scraped palms full of gravel is a real turn-off for little kids.
I also think a foot brake is the way to go, and remove any front brake. The kids get all hung up in trying to use it, and crash into a fence with all their attention on the lever.
Proper bike fit is also very important. My daughter also learned, but not as quickly. I think this is because when she was ready, she was a different size than my son and her bike didn't fit as well. The 12" wheel bike was too small, and the 20" was a bit more unwieldy. I think this made it harder. They have to be able to get their feet on the ground, but also be able to get reasonable leg extension while pedaling. Some kids bike really suck and have strange geometry with super high bottom brackets making proper positioning difficult. Check around. Also I took apart the bike and greased and adjusted all the bearings. There was a HUGE amount of drag right out of the box. The movie shows what I consider a very suitable kid-position. I also swapped the cog on the kids' bikes. All the bikes came with a very high gear that made even microscopic inclines difficult, as well as getting started.
In article <6c7Ih.2692$uo3.1...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off > >> training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who > > was > >> having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three > >> blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
> > Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels ? I > > have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer he was still > > riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
-- Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
Ryan Cousineau wrote: >>> Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels >>> ? I have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer >>> he was still riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
> The "Undersized Bike Approach" is what I think sounds most likely.
A hybrid approach: pads, thick clothing, undersized bike, and remove the pedals to turn the bike into a scooter. When the kid can balance well enough to scoot along while sitting on the saddle, put the pedals back but have the kid continue to scoot along (with a slightly wider stance to avoid hitting the pedals with fragile ankles. This is the reason why the bike should be undersized).
"joseph.santanie...@gmail.com" <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 9, 6:34 am, "Charles" <guyonab...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off > > > training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who > > was > > > having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three > > > blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
> > Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels ? I > > have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer he was still > > riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
> I taught him to ride by never using training wheels.
> Proper bike fit is also very important. My daughter also learned, but > not as quickly. I think this is because when she was ready, she was a > different size than my son and her bike didn't fit as well. The 12" > wheel bike was too small, and the 20" was a bit more unwieldy. I think > this made it harder. They have to be able to get their feet on the > ground, but also be able to get reasonable leg extension while > pedaling. Some kids bike really suck and have strange geometry with > super high bottom brackets making proper positioning difficult. Check > around. Also I took apart the bike and greased and adjusted all the > bearings. There was a HUGE amount of drag right out of the box. The > movie shows what I consider a very suitable kid-position. I also > swapped the cog on the kids' bikes. All the bikes came with a very > high gear that made even microscopic inclines difficult, as well as > getting started.
This is really interesting and useful advice. I haven't seen anyone else discuss the geometry and gearing issues of kid bikes.
I have a niece and a nephew who are about to learn how to ride bikes. This is good info.
-- Ryan Cousineau rcous...@sfu.ca http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
> In article <1173428883.451728.185...@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
> "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com" <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 9, 6:34 am, "Charles" <guyonab...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > daughter interested in cycling at a young age. She didn't even get off > > > > training wheels until she was 8, and was shamed into it by a friend who > > > was > > > > having a birthday party where they were all going to ride bikes the three > > > > blocks from the house to a park. My son was off training wheels at 3 1/2.
> > > Can you pass on any tips to getting a youngster started on 2 wheels ? I > > > have a 5 y.o. and wish to avoid training wheels. Last summer he was still > > > riding a tricycle, some. He is not afraid.
I'm waiting to see what sort of body type he has before nudging him in any particular direction. :-) Right now I think I have the bases covered with ice-hockey, xc skiing, figure skating, and cycling. Specialization comes at a later age.
I have a secret plan to get him a road bike this summer. They are building a bike path which will be done in the fall that goes essentially door to door the 4.5km from my house to school. We'll see how that goes!
> > I taught him to ride by never using training wheels.
> > Proper bike fit is also very important. My daughter also learned, but > > not as quickly. I think this is because when she was ready, she was a > > different size than my son and her bike didn't fit as well. The 12" > > wheel bike was too small, and the 20" was a bit more unwieldy. I think > > this made it harder. They have to be able to get their feet on the > > ground, but also be able to get reasonable leg extension while > > pedaling. Some kids bike really suck and have strange geometry with > > super high bottom brackets making proper positioning difficult. Check > > around. Also I took apart the bike and greased and adjusted all the > > bearings. There was a HUGE amount of drag right out of the box. The > > movie shows what I consider a very suitable kid-position. I also > > swapped the cog on the kids' bikes. All the bikes came with a very > > high gear that made even microscopic inclines difficult, as well as > > getting started.
> This is really interesting and useful advice. I haven't seen anyone else > discuss the geometry and gearing issues of kid bikes.
> I have a niece and a nephew who are about to learn how to ride bikes. > This is good info.
I bought my daughter a new bike (pink!) to learn on, but it was hopeless and I threw it out. It had 12" wheels like the green one in my son's movie, but the bb was almost 2 inches higher! I don't know what optimal geometry is for a kids bike but that green one was very good. I can meause it if anyone is interested.
In article <rcousine-C227C1.19180409032...@news.telus.net>, Ryan Cousineau
<rcous...@sfu.ca> wrote: > This is really interesting and useful advice. I haven't seen anyone else > discuss the geometry and gearing issues of kid bikes.
One thing about small wheeled bikes is that they tend to have pretty fast steering, i.e. small inputs on the bars seem to make the bike turn quickly. What I've seen done that seems to work well is to turn the fork around backwards for a while. The increased trail makes for greater stability. -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
