Biggest gainers by position : +64 Michael Rasmussen +46 Thierry Marichal +41 Thomas Voeckler +32 Tobias Steinhauser +28 Giovanni Lombardi +24 Mario Aerts +21 Francis Mourey +19 Volodimir Gustov +19 JosÚ Luis Arrieta +18 Pierrick FÚdrigo
Biggest losers by position : -65 Benjamin Noval -65 Pavel Padrnos -38 Joost Posthuma -31 Bram Tankink -29 Andrei Grivko -28 Massimo Giunti -27 Sylvain Chavanel -24 Alessandro Cortinovis -19 Juan Manuel Garate -18 Egoi Martinez -17 Fred Rodriguez
Biggest gainers by time : +4:22 Michael Rasmussen +1:00 Jens Voigt +0:58 Christophe Moreau
Biggest losers by time : -22:00 Daniel Becke -17:05 Alessandro Bertolini -17:05 Alessandro Cortinovis -17:05 Alessandro Vanotti -17:05 Andrei Grivko -17:05 Angelo Furlan -17:05 Laszlo Bodrogi -17:05 Rafael Nuritdinov -15:20 Allan Davis -15:20 Baden Cooke -15:20 Benjamin Noval
Favourites by position : +2 Stefano Garzelli +2 Paolo Savoldelli +2 Michael Rogers +2 Dario Cioni -1 Roberto Heras -1 Oscar Pereiro Sio -1 Francisco Mancebo -1 Alejandro Valverde -2 Vladimir Karpets -2 Santiago Botero -2 Levi Leipheimer -2 Lance Armstrong -2 Jan Ullrich -2 Ivan Basso -2 Floyd Landis -2 Bobby Julich -2 Andreas Kl÷den -2 Alexandre Vinokourov -4 Fabian Cancellara
Favourites by time : -2:12 Dario Cioni -2:18 Vladimir Karpets -2:18 Stefano Garzelli -2:18 Santiago Botero -2:18 Roberto Heras -2:18 Paolo Savoldelli -2:18 Oscar Pereiro Sio -2:18 Michael Rogers -2:18 Levi Leipheimer -2:18 Lance Armstrong -2:18 Jan Ullrich -2:18 Ivan Basso -2:18 Francisco Mancebo -2:18 Floyd Landis -2:18 Bobby Julich -2:18 Andreas Kl÷den -2:18 Alexandre Vinokourov -2:18 Alejandro Valverde -15:20 Fabian Cancellara
Favourites standings : 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18 5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20 6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44 8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54 11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08 12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08 13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31 15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36 16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49 19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12 21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16 24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42 27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57 29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21 34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26 37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29 52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06 128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04
Retirements to date : Ag2r-Prevoyance Sylvain Calzati (Fra) DNF 8 Credit Agricole Jaan Kirsipuu (Est) DNF 9 Davitamon-Lotto Leon van Bon (Ned) DNF 8 Domina Vacanze Sergei Gonchar (Ukr) DNS 8 Fassa Bortolo Claudio Corioni (Ita) DNF 6 Franþaise Des Jeux Christophe Mengin (Fra) DNS 8 Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne Isaac Gßlvez (Spa) DNF 8 Lampre-Caffita Alessandro Spezialetti (Ita) DNF 7 Liberty Seguros-W³rth Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano (Spa) DNF 9 Liquigas-Bianchi Luciano Pagliarini (Bra) DNF 9 Phonak Hearing Systems Steve Zampieri (Swi) DNF 7 Saunier Duval-Prodir Constantino Zaballa (Spa) DNF 5 Saunier Duval-Prodir Jose Angel Gomez Marchante (Spa) DNF 9 Team CSC David Zabriskie (USA) DNF 9 Total retirements : 14
On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:37:35 GMT, Bob Martin wrote: > Favourites standings : > 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18 > 5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20 > 6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25 > 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44 > 8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54 > 11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08 > 12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08 > 13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31 > 15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36 > 16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49 > 19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12 > 21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16 > 24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42 > 27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57 > 29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21 > 34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26 > 37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29 > 52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06 > 128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04
Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo? Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.
>On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:37:35 GMT, Bob Martin wrote: >> Favourites standings : >> 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18 >> 5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20 >> 6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25 >> 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44 >> 8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54 >> 11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08 >> 12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08 >> 13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31 >> 15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36 >> 16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49 >> 19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12 >> 21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16 >> 24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42 >> 27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57 >> 29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21 >> 34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26 >> 37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29 >> 52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06 >> 128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04
>Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo? >Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and >Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.
I knew this list would be contentious! I don't agree about Savoldelli as he's a major rider and will be DSC's leader if LA falls off his bike. Yes, Cioni and Cancellara look out of place, but it'll be interesting to see how they recover. I had Mayo in the list in his previous races but he always disappointed. I'll add Sastre and Menchov. Any more?
Tony Rall wrote: > Bob Martin wrote: > > Biggest gainers by time : > > +1:00 Jens Voigt
> I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the > previous day's leader.
Voigt was at 1:00 to the leader, and now is at 0:00 to the leader. By convention, GC times are referenced to the leader at the moment, not to the putative favorite.
> Tony Rall wrote: > > Bob Martin wrote: > > > Biggest gainers by time : > > > +1:00 Jens Voigt
> > I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the > > previous day's leader.
> Voigt was at 1:00 to the leader, and now is at 0:00 to the > leader. By convention, GC times are referenced to the leader > at the moment, not to the putative favorite.
On 10 Jul 2005 13:06:27 -0700, b...@mambo.ucolick.org <b...@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> Tony Rall wrote: >> Bob Martin wrote: >> > Biggest gainers by time : >> > +1:00 Jens Voigt
>> I don't understand. Voight gained 3:00 plus 18 bonus seconds over the >> previous day's leader.
> Voigt was at 1:00 to the leader, and now is at 0:00 to the > leader. By convention, GC times are referenced to the leader > at the moment, not to the putative favorite.
True, but I was interested in seeing the times that way, so I put together this list (with Armstrong's time subtracted out of all).
Favourites standings: 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.00 5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.02 6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 1.07 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 1.26 8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.36 11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.50 12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.50 13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 2.13 15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.18 16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 2.31 19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.54 21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 2.58 24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.24 27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.39 29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 4.03 34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 4.08 37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quicep 4.11 52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 5.48
-- Theodore (Ted) Heise <t...@heise.nu> Bloomington, IN, USA
Bob Martin wrote: > in 470314 20050710 184409 Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:37:35 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
>>>Favourites standings : >>> 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 2.18 >>> 5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 3.20 >>> 6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 3.25 >>> 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 3.44 >>> 8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.54 >>> 11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.08 >>> 12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.08 >>> 13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.31 >>> 15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.36 >>> 16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 4.49 >>> 19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 5.12 >>> 21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth 5.16 >>> 24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.42 >>> 27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 5.57 >>> 29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 6.21 >>> 34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 6.26 >>> 37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step 6.29 >>> 52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 8.06 >>> 128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo 35.04
>>Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo? >>Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and >>Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.
> I knew this list would be contentious! I don't agree about Savoldelli as he's > a major rider and will be DSC's leader if LA falls off his bike. Yes, Cioni and > Cancellara look out of place, but it'll be interesting to see how they recover. > I had Mayo in the list in his previous races but he always disappointed. > I'll add Sastre and Menchov. > Any more?
Disappointing or no, Mayo is more consistent than Botero. He should be on this list.
> in 470314 20050710 184409 Ewoud Dronkert <firstn...@lastname.net.invalid> > wrote: >>On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:37:35 GMT, Bob Martin wrote: >>> Favourites standings : >>> 3 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel >>> 2.18 >>> 5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team >>> 3.20 >>> 6 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC >>> 3.25 >>> 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC >>> 3.44 >>> 8 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team >>> 3.54 >>> 11 Andreas Kl÷den (Ger) T-Mobile Team >>> 4.08 >>> 12 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems >>> 4.08 >>> 13 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne >>> 4.31 >>> 15 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems >>> 4.36 >>> 16 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner >>> 4.49 >>> 19 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems >>> 5.12 >>> 21 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros-W³rth >>> 5.16 >>> 24 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne >>> 5.42 >>> 27 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne >>> 5.57 >>> 29 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel >>> 6.21 >>> 34 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi >>> 6.26 >>> 37 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step >>> 6.29 >>> 52 Dario Cioni (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi >>> 8.06 >>> 128 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo >>> 35.04
>>Are these your own picks, and pre-race? No Sastre, Menchov, Mayo? >>Savoldelli does not belong (being on DSC and not being Armstrong), and >>Cioni and Cancellara are rather out of place as well, I think.
> I knew this list would be contentious! I don't agree about Savoldelli as > he's > a major rider and will be DSC's leader if LA falls off his bike. Yes, > Cioni and > Cancellara look out of place, but it'll be interesting to see how they > recover. > I had Mayo in the list in his previous races but he always disappointed. > I'll add Sastre and Menchov. > Any more?
With a crazy man like Michael Rasmussen in the peloton...I'd add him to the favourites :o)
HBJensen <carbon...@sol.countrycode> wrote: > With a crazy man like Michael Rasmussen in the peloton...I'd add him to the > favourites :o)
Unfortunatly, M.Rasmussen doesn't think of himself as a GC guy - or to be more accurate: he doesn't think a GC spot is worth fighting for, because he has no chance of finnishing 1th overall i Paris. A guy like M.Rasmussen thinks that 2nd or 3rd in Paris only is honourable if your where figthing for 1st spot, and failed. Fighting for 2nd or 3rd isn't.
Danish ex pro R.Sørensen thinks that M.Rasmussen _can_ take the jersy tuesday if he stays put with Discovery, CSC and T-Mobile until the last climb. Sørensen also says that Armstrong won't try to follow him, in fear of exploding and loosing the Tour to CSC and T-Mobile.
However R.Sørensen also says M.Rasmussen could keep the jearsy throug the Alpes and Pyraneas, and continously gain time on L.Armstrong, I.Basso, A.Vinokurov and J.Ulrich. Eventually M.Rasmussen will lose big time on the last TT, at least 5 minuttes, pehaps 10 minuttes and end up between 3th to 5th GC in Paris.
The above scenario isn't honourable in Rasmussens strange universe (A universe even stranger than R.Sørensen, who would often hit the brakes in a spring Classics instead of fighting for 2nd - I Remember a Ronde van Vlandern where E.Van Hoydonck escpaed a four rider group, and Sørensen didn't even try to sprint for 2nd, althoug he by far was the fastest ands strongest of them remaining 3 riders)
Acording to R.Sørensen the only guys capable of finnishing 1th and 2nd are L.Armstrong, I.Basso, A.Vinukurov and J.Ulrich. (R.Sørensen also says that B.Jullich _will_ finnish 3rd - either while supporting I.Basso's victory or as the CSC substitue for a failling I.Basso)
