Lance shows at local race
Jason Waddell
it without fanfare and snuck in undetected before the start. He just rode in
the rear of the field until about the halfway(40mile) point and then he decided
to do some intervals. I was truly fortunate to be able to follow his attack
when he went and was among the 9 other lucky guys that got to spend 40 miles in
a 10 man break with a 3time TdF winner.
He never went so hard as to drop us or completely decimate the group but with
him just being in the group we were all riding just a little bit harder than
normal. He would force the pace occasionally just to make sure we were paying
attention, but he let everyone have a turn and that has got to be about the
smoothest pace line that I have ever been a part of. No one was screwing
around, just riding hard.
But the course was hilly as was Saturdays race and I was completely wasted with
10 miles to go. I sat out a pull and Lance comes around in the pace line and
looks at me and says:
LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
LA: well get dropped then
5miles later with one lap to go he dropped the hammer and after a bit eased up
so that the 3 guys that were still able to halfway follow could get on his
wheel. The rest of us just rode in with our 5 minute gap safe...
Truly a unique experience to get to spend 2hrs in a small break with a rider of
his caliber.
jason
Cathy Boland
"Jason Waddell" <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote in message
news:20020225180754...@mb-mu.aol.com...
> But the course was hilly as was Saturdays race and I was completely wasted
with
> 10 miles to go. I sat out a pull and Lance comes around in the pace line
and
> looks at me and says:
>
> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
>
LOL! That's classic! Thanks for posting this, Jason.
Cathy
brian roth
I sat out a pull and Lance comes around in the pace line and
> looks at me and says:
>
> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
>
Didn't your r.b.r. cred count for anything?!?!?!?
Tom Kunich
news:20020225180754...@mb-mu.aol.com...
>
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
I hope you take what he said to heart Jason. I think he was telling you to
get fitter.
Steven L. Sheffield
jjwb...@aol.com12345 (Jason Waddell) wrote:
> 5miles later with one lap to go he dropped the hammer and after a bit eased
> up
> so that the 3 guys that were still able to halfway follow could get on his
> wheel. The rest of us just rode in with our 5 minute gap safe...
So where did he place?
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at mac dot com
aitch tee tea pea colon four word slash forward slash double ewe double you double yew dot veloworks dot com
Jason Waddell
>Date: 2/25/2002 8:58 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <stevens-5E6A7F...@nnrp04.earthlink.net>
>
>In article <20020225180754...@mb-mu.aol.com>,
> jjwb...@aol.com12345 (Jason Waddell) wrote:
>
>
>> 5miles later with one lap to go he dropped the hammer and after a bit eased
>
>> up
>> so that the 3 guys that were still able to halfway follow could get on his
>> wheel. The rest of us just rode in with our 5 minute gap safe...
>
>
>
>
>So where did he place?
He pulled off with 200meters to go, jumped in the van and went home...
jason
Jason Waddell
>Date: 2/25/2002 8:55 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <%OCe8.16425$0C1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Kunich(self confessed cat 5) telling me about what Lance said to me. Tommy,
you truly are a piece of work.
FYI: I was in 2 breakaways for 10 of the first 40 miles and then made the
Armstrong group. On a hilly 6 mile loop. Oh yeah, I was 3rd on Saturdays
hillier RR.
First race of the year and I think I'm fine Tom. But thanks for your insight.
Maybe I should go ahead and lose a few more pounds, 6.5% body fat is kinda high
for a sprinter huh???
BTW: how did you do in your SUPER competitive Norcal cat 5 race this weekend?
oh yeah, shut up Kunich
jason
Amit
There is another account of this race at:
http://www.canadiancyclist.com/dailynews/February/2.24.0211.22PM41.shtml
-Amit Ghosh
Josef Pribramska
Did you get a chance to tell him about www.homo.com?
Bikezelbub Smith
>
>
> He pulled off with 200meters to go, jumped in the van and went home...
>
> jason
>
Pantani was right. No respect at all.
Ike
David Cowie
tsk, tsk, pro's should know better on how to warm down.
(unless of course, he was back behind the van motorpacing home)
Cool picture at Cyclingnews, the surprised expression on the spectators
faces !
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/news/feb02/lance_pace_bend.shtml
"Hey, did you see who just went passed ?"
"No way!"
Ewoud Dronkert
> "Jason Waddell" <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote:
> > LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> > JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> > LA: well get dropped then
>
> I hope you take what he said to heart Jason. I think he was telling you
> to get fitter.
Are you suggesting Jason might have misunderstood Lance while he really
said: "Well get doped then."?
Bart
That makes much more sense from that angle.
in case it was "dropped" after all, JW had alotta answers at his
disposal:
'dude, you think i'm some german bratwurst?'
'you're gonna have to *look* harder than that'
'make my day, punk'
'ronde champ is dating your wife'
(Good story Jason)
etc.
Ewoud Dronkert
> in case it was "dropped" after all, JW had alotta answers at his
> disposal:
> 'dude, you think i'm some german bratwurst?'
> 'you're gonna have to *look* harder than that'
> 'make my day, punk'
> 'ronde champ is dating your wife'
Great. Or
"Am I gonna take my pull? Maybe. Am I gonna kick your ass in the sprint?
Definitely."
in true LA-question-repeating style.
Tom Paterson
Pantani was right. No respect at all.
Yeah, Pantani has lost the respect he once enjoyed. Doping suspicions, car
crashes, poor performances, and that regrettable reaction to Lance showing him
some pretty strong respect in the Tour.
"Maybe he'll get it all back together this year". --Tom Paterson
Alan Atwood
news:d58ad322.02022...@posting.google.com...
How can you say that?? He didn't show up there to beat up on all the
local riders, he was there for training and did not want to take a
finishing place away from the local folks competing. If he went clear
at the end and won the race, that would make you scratch your head and
wonder. But Lance clearly got what he came for and exited the race only
after the final selections were made as to not affect the final outcome
of the race. It's great to see that Lance values the grass roots race
enough to show up and ride with them.
Alan
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Bart
> How can you say that??
Hey Alan, emoticons are rare here.
hope this helps
Kyle Legate
It's February, you dolt.
... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
leg...@mcmaster.ca Kyle Legate leg...@hotmail.com
Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca
moon musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
Dave Mackey
Actually, to really mock him, you need to refer to yourself in the third
person.
--
Dave Mackey
usenetATmirrorcageDOTcom
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity; lick it once and you suck forever.
Carl Sundquist
"Jason Waddell" <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote in message
news:20020225180754...@mb-mu.aol.com...
I sat out a pull and Lance comes around in the pace line and
> looks at me and says:
>
> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
>
You should have told him that you were going to sit on his wheel so he would
"experience more drag and will find it more difficult to pull away."
Didier A. Depireux
> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
You see this guy for the first time in your life, and the first thing he
says to you is an insult, and you think he's the greatest? Wow.
Didier
--
Didier A Depireux ddep...@umaryland.edu did...@isr.umd.edu
685 W.Baltimore Str http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm
Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
University of Maryland -1273 (lab)
Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-4724
N. Peter Armitage
-P
Ewoud Dronkert
> [a great report]
So Jason I guess it's
1 Dominique Rollin
2 Ian Dille
3 Ryan Roth
4 Mark Ernsting
5 Scott Henry
6 Jason Waddell
..
DNF Lance Armstrong
Henry Chang
<did...@rai.isr.umd.edu> wrote:
>Jason Waddell <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote:
>
>> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
>> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
>> LA: well get dropped then
>
>You see this guy for the first time in your life, and the first thing he
>says to you is an insult, and you think he's the greatest? Wow.
You've obviously never been in a break where someone is sitting on.
"well get dropped then" is one of the nicer things one would hear (or
see) in that situation.
It's a bike race for god's sake, not a knitting convention.
Henry
Steve Leuty
Jason Waddell
>Date: 2/26/2002 6:12 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <3c7c2219....@news1.news.adelphia.net>
It was not the first time I had raced with him, and I have said the exact same
thing to guys not doing their share before.
It is bike racing.
jason
Yank Ng Yo Chang
> ...But Lance clearly got what he came for and exited the race only
> after the final selections were made as to not affect the final outcome
> of the race.
Not that I care if he won or not or "jumped in the van," but how do you
put in attacks, and contribute to the winning break, and not affect the
final outcome?
later,
Yank Ng Yo Chang
Kevin Metcalfe
> Jason Waddell <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote:
>
> > LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> > JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> > LA: well get dropped then
>
> You see this guy for the first time in your life, and the first thing he
> says to you is an insult, and you think he's the greatest? Wow.
>
So you think that the three time Tour de France champ should be
Jason's bitch and tow him around to the finish???
On the other hand, it doesn't say anything in the rule book about
having to take your pulls until you get dropped either. If Jason
can't pull, or doesn't want to, he doesn't have to. If Lance (or
anybody else) doesn't like it, then it's up to them to get rid of the
dead weight.
Kevin Metcalfe
nslc...@yahoo.com
Pleasant Hill, CA
Tom Kunich
> >From: "Tom Kunich" tku...@earthlink.net
> >Date: 2/25/2002 8:55 PM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: <%OCe8.16425$0C1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
> >
> >"Jason Waddell" <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote in message
> >news:20020225180754...@mb-mu.aol.com...
> >>
> >> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> >> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> >> LA: well get dropped then
> >
> >I hope you take what he said to heart Jason. I think he was telling you
to
> >get fitter.
>
> Kunich(self confessed cat 5) telling me about what Lance said to me.
Tommy,
> you truly are a piece of work.
At least I can recognize when someone is kind enough to say something polite
to me. Do you suppose that Hincapie would tell Lance that he was a sprinter
and so couldn't take pulls on the front? Geez, if you're going to make
excuses at least make them believable. How about, "I'm too tired from all
the work I did in all of those breaks that didn't have a chance."
> FYI: I was in 2 breakaways for 10 of the first 40 miles and then made the
> Armstrong group. On a hilly 6 mile loop. Oh yeah, I was 3rd on Saturdays
> hillier RR.
Perhaps you might start thinking a little more about who is going to stay
away then. At least that is one thing that I've noticed that Cat 5's don't
know shit about. I would have expected someone of your experience and skill
to be a lot better at it.
> First race of the year and I think I'm fine Tom. But thanks for your
insight.
> Maybe I should go ahead and lose a few more pounds, 6.5% body fat is kinda
high
> for a sprinter huh???
So it's percentage of body fat that determines which group you break with?
Jason, you are one of the big boys now. You get to have your own team. You
aren't supposed to be covering every break.
> BTW: how did you do in your SUPER competitive Norcal cat 5 race this
weekend?
Me? Race? I stopped that the day they told some guys who weren't racing that
if they didn't wear helmets they'd be disqualified.
> oh yeah, shut up Kunich
Tell it to the real racers Waddell.
Clem Schnide
"Jason Waddell" <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote in message
news:20020225180754...@mb-mu.aol.com...
> This past weekend in west Austin Lance showed up for the Pace Bend RR. He
did
> it without fanfare and snuck in undetected before the start. He just rode
in
> the rear of the field until about the halfway(40mile) point and then he
decided
> to do some intervals. I was truly fortunate to be able to follow his
attack
> when he went and was among the 9 other lucky guys that got to spend 40
miles in
> a 10 man break with a 3time TdF winner.
>
> He never went so hard as to drop us or completely decimate the group but
with
> him just being in the group we were all riding just a little bit harder
than
> normal. He would force the pace occasionally just to make sure we were
paying
> attention, but he let everyone have a turn and that has got to be about
the
> smoothest pace line that I have ever been a part of. No one was screwing
> around, just riding hard.
>
> But the course was hilly as was Saturdays race and I was completely wasted
with
> 10 miles to go. I sat out a pull and Lance comes around in the pace line
and
> looks at me and says:
>
> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
>
Eric Harvey
I'm thinking 1997 or 1998, back when I was somewhat active on this
group. I just remember a time of relative silence from him.
Tom, your comments on this are totally absurd. Jason was relating a
funny story and that was it. He doesn't need fine analysis on his
fitness level by a doofus like yourself. You have NO CLUE what it takes
to race at Jason's level, let alone Lance's level. But then that has
never stopped you from spouting off before....
Back to lurking,
Eric.
Bart
> It is bike racing.
Thanks for clearing this out.
Half the reactions in this thread seem good incentives to never bother
giving good stories again.
Bart
Ilan Vardi
>
> So you think that the three time Tour de France champ should be
> Jason's bitch and tow him around to the finish???
>
> On the other hand, it doesn't say anything in the rule book about
> having to take your pulls until you get dropped either. If Jason
> can't pull, or doesn't want to, he doesn't have to. If Lance (or
> anybody else) doesn't like it, then it's up to them to get rid of the
> dead weight.
Actually, this story confirms my theory that the best professionals
are very similar in every respect to good Cat 2's, except for superior
speed and fitness. This theory started when I heard Greg Lemond
saying: "Man, we were hammerin'."
-ilan
Mike Gladu
<sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
This was my problem.
A Pro enters a TXBRA Cup 1/2/3 event and contributes to the winning break.
Forget tactics - the only chance one had to finish atop the points in that
race to win was to go with Lance when he 'went'. Those who would work and
could hang (this early in the season) were delivered to the line (in this
case, without one place being taken away by Lance).
To say that he did not affect the final outcome is ludicrous.
He would have affected the outcome even if he had only sat in, his
presence encouraging some to stay with his group rather than break away.
As someone who is on the defending TXBRA Cup Overall Champion team - I
would have preferred the latter - a fair race without Lance's help.
Mike G.
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gladu, bicycling photojournalist Infinite HangTime Photography
http://www.velodrome.com/ Email: velo...@mac.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Join the track list on TOPICA.COM velodrome...@topica.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Chung
I don't know if anyone else did, but I laughed.
Henry Chang
wrote:
>> Not that I care if he won or not or "jumped in the van," but how do you
>> put in attacks, and contribute to the winning break, and not affect the
>> final outcome?
>
>This was my problem.
>
>A Pro enters a TXBRA Cup 1/2/3 event and contributes to the winning break.
>
>Forget tactics - the only chance one had to finish atop the points in that
>race to win was to go with Lance when he 'went'.
Forget tactics?
If that little race was really all that important to your team, maybe
you should have tried the novel tactic of sitting on Lance's wheel.
There's nothing that exposes the fragile male ego more than when a
superior competitor shows up to ruin the party. Gladu's post is
reminiscent of all the ego-challenged masters who whined when Thurlow
Rogers showed up to steal all those oh-so-valuable masters national
championships medals, and it was "whining" because Rogers met the age
requirement.
Henry
fan of the fragile male ego
Henry Chang
wrote:
>
>Perhaps you might start thinking a little more about who is going to stay
>away then. At least that is one thing that I've noticed that Cat 5's don't
>know shit about. I would have expected someone of your experience and skill
>to be a lot better at it.
<snip>
>So it's percentage of body fat that determines which group you break with?
>Jason, you are one of the big boys now. You get to have your own team. You
>aren't supposed to be covering every break.
<snip>
Kunich, you demonstrate your Cat 5-ness quite well here by not
realizing that the first race of the year (no national calendar or UCI
points) is something that the serious people use to gain fitness.
Henry
Yank Ng Yo Chang
>
> ... it doesn't say anything in the rule book about
> having to take your pulls until you get dropped either.
As a 45 yo NorCal rider who's not a Cat 1 or Cat 2, I plan to take the
absolute fullest advantage of this fact.
Pull me,
Yank Ng Yo Chang
Yank Ng Yo Chang
>
> There's nothing that exposes the fragile male ego more than when a
> superior competitor shows up to ruin the party. Gladu's post is
> reminiscent of all the ego-challenged masters who whined when Thurlow
> Rogers showed up to steal all those oh-so-valuable masters national
> championships medals, and it was "whining" because Rogers met the age
> requirement.
Funny, I was there in Santa Rosa in the same age group and I didn't hear
even one such complaint. It really didn't matter to me who won because
I knew I never had a chance of finishing in the top 25 any way (much
less medal). I was more awestruck than anything, and that *is* what was
related to me by other riders.
In the Crit, Rodgers soloed off the front of the pack. I was in the
pack and I couldn't believe that Rodgers was actually putting time on
the pack considering the pack was averaging 28mph or so. It was quite
impressive.
Apparently those medals were important to Rodgers and a few other riders
-- why else would they try to cross the finish line first? Why else
would they "whine?" Why do you get to decide what's important to other
riders? Quit whining about what Masters do or don't do. Whiner.
Henry Chang
<sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
>Funny, I was there in Santa Rosa in the same age group
>and I didn't hear even one such complaint.
Because the all-knowing, all-powerful Gregory White didn't hear
something means it didn't happen?
Ego-challenged people complained mightily on this newsgroup (and
elsewhere I imagine) - that's when the "no-pros in the Masters" debate
got started by the ego-challenged sect. It is a discussion I love to
have with those people who are small-minded enough to be blinded by
the fact that the whole point of Masters racing is to have age-graded
rather than ability graded competition.
>Apparently those medals were important to Rodgers and a few other riders
>-- why else would they try to cross the finish line first? Why else
>would they "whine?" Why do you get to decide what's important to other
>riders?
I don't 'decide' what is important to other riders. I do enjoy
pointing out when the fragile ego displays its insecurities.
Like right now.
Yank Ng Yo Chang
> ... the whole point of Masters racing is to have age-graded
> rather than ability graded competition.
Actually it's both, no matter what USAC and the NCNCA say. Masters
racing is both age graded and ability graded in _practice_. Regarding
ability, there are effectively (in practice) two Masters categories: Cat
1 and Cat 4.
I still don't know why people from 30 to 34 are called "Masters" because
there's not really any substantial age degradation in that age group (I
think Cippolini recently won another race and he's 34). The degradation
from ages 35 to 39 is marginal enough that people in this age group can
still win races at nearly the highest level of the sport. I think
Gilbert Duclos-Lasalle (sp?) won PR twice in a row when he was about 40
(although it did surprise everyone). "Everyone" expects Cippolini, as a
sprinter, to lose enough speed in the next few years, such that he is
forced into retirement.
There's no unilateral rule regarding exactly when, and by how much, age
degrades ability. For me, the last 6 years (40=>45) have shown much
more physical ability drop off than the 35=>39 period. I don't know
what others have experienced. But tactical knowledge continues to
grow. So for young riders, tactical knowledge grows as strength grows
-- they are coincident. But the opposite thing happens to Masters;
strength/speed diminishes while tactical sense still continues to
improve (or at least stays flat). Show me a 50yo pro.
Henry Chang
<sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
<a bunch of stuff snipped>
So why should someone be banned from Masters Nationals if they meet
the age requirement?
You didn't address the meat of that discussion.
Henry
Jonathan Babiak
> You see this guy for the first time in your life, and the first thing he
> says to you is an insult, and you think he's the greatest? Wow.
>
> Didier
Dear Dr. Didier: Men will at times, when communicating with other men,
couch a challenge in terms of encouraging quitting. For example, if
one man says to another, "This doctorate is too damn hard. It's really
starting to get to me," the response may be, "Okay, then quit. You can
always be an aliquot monkey down at the urinalysis lab." The
expectation, of course, is to have the first man think, "I'm better
than that, and I'm not quitting."
Lance wasn't insulting anyone. It was just one man's way of saying to
another man, "You're stronger than you think, and you'll get in some
really great training today if you take a few turns at the front. Go
for it." Spend some time talking to men, and you'll understand what I
mean. Jonathan Babiak (Austin, Texas)
Jason Waddell
>Date: 2/27/2002 1:50 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <3C7C8FD3...@somewhere.be>
My though exactly. I thought it would be a good story for the group, but yet
again it gets picked apart by the likes of Kunich.
jason
Jason Waddell
>> Alan Atwood wrote:
>>
>> > ...But Lance clearly got what he came for and exited the race only
>> > after the final selections were made as to not affect the final outcome
>> > of the race.
>>
>>
>> Not that I care if he won or not or "jumped in the van," but how do you
>> put in attacks, and contribute to the winning break, and not affect the
>> final outcome?
>
>This was my problem.
>
>A Pro enters a TXBRA Cup 1/2/3 event and contributes to the winning break.
>
Actually Mike it was a Pro 1/2 race. So he had every right to be there.
jason
Yank Ng Yo Chang
>
> So why should someone be banned from Masters Nationals if they meet
> the age requirement?
>
I don't personally care either way who's included or excluded in Masters
Nationals. I suppose that for an amateur only competition someone
should be excluded if they *are* (not "were" or "going to be") a pro, or
if they break the rules. But who cares besides the individuals who are
actually competing for the prize (and that would not be me)? I think
you secretly covet Masters racing.
I'm sure Rodgers will decide for himself just how satisfying those
medals are. I wasn't too impressed that he easily defeated me and a lot
of other racers that week. I was impressed by how fast he could go.
Yank Ng Yo Chang
>
> >From: Bart bart.vanh...@somewhere.be
> >Half the reactions in this thread seem good incentives to never bother
> >giving good stories again.
> >
> >Bart
> >
>
> My though exactly. I thought it would be a good story for the group, but yet
> again it gets picked apart by the likes of Kunich.
I don't know about that -- I thought that particular "picking apart" was
quite humorous in a weird sort of way. But then it wasn't my story
getting picked at.
Henry Chang
<sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
>Henry Chang wrote:
>>
>> So why should someone be banned from Masters Nationals if they meet
>> the age requirement?
>>
>
>I don't personally care either way who's included or excluded in Masters
>Nationals.
???
So what are we arguing about?
Henry
Steven Gee
person ? Or are you hidding behind your keyboard. Jason is a real
rider who makes a POSITIVE contribution to this group. So what if
Lance is fitter. Who is'nt. Jason was obviously not insecure about
Lance's comments.
You, well you just add dribble. Go away, LEAVE.
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<6zZe8.19648$ZC3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Mike Gladu
henri...@takethisout.home.com (Henry Chang) wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:58:16 -0800, Yank Ng Yo Chang
> <sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
>
> <a bunch of stuff snipped>
>
> So why should someone be banned from Masters Nationals if they meet
> the age requirement?
Nice troll.
We've beat this one to death already.
Tom Kunich
news:6efd8f0.02022...@posting.google.com...
>
> So what if Lance is fitter. Who is'nt. Jason was obviously not insecure
> about Lance's comments.
Thanks for agreeing with my point Steven.
But I think that you missed my original meaning. Waddell is a good racer
now. In a race like that he should be able to keep up with everyone but
Lance on the hills, sprinter or not.
The reason he gives that he couldn't was because HE was covering all the
breaks. Real racers don't race stupid EVER. If you are Jason's level you
have to be a professional, not some jerk with talent who gets to ride with
Lance because he lucks out.
I think that Jason can race with the best but not if he has the attitude of
a loser.
Tom Kunich
news:3c7d2771....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
I have to agree with Henry here. Not because I don't think that Mike doesn't
have a point, but because whenever a World Champion shows up EVERYONE learns
something.
Alan J Bishop
In Europe, even in Australia, europros turn up to local races and compete - and
get beaten! It's just part of their training.
So suppose Lance had of stayed in the bunch? Suppose it came down to a sprint
finish and he got beaten by an average back blocks kicker? So what? would it
prove that Lance was a hero or a second rate rider or a second rate sprinter
(we know the answer to that one)...
So what!
AJB
Theodore Heise
> >From: Bart bart.vanh...@somewhere.be
> >Half the reactions in this thread seem good incentives to never bother
> >giving good stories again.
>
> again it gets picked apart by the likes of Kunich.
Hey, I liked it a lot!
(I thought about asking if he came over for pizza and beer, but figured it
wouldn't really be that funny.)
--
Theodore W. Heise <the...@netins.net> West Lafayette, IN, USA
Ewoud Dronkert
Fred Rompelberg.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/jan98/jan30.html
http://www.fredrompelberg.com/
Emory Ball
them greatly and since, most likely, I will never be in these
situations its neat to see though your eyes what goes on inside pro,
1, 2 races. Most likly the detractors are just picking because it was
not them in the break with Lance. Ignore them and post for those of us
who want to read your reports.
Thanks for taking the time.
Yours
Emory
jjwb...@aol.com12345 (Jason Waddell) wrote in message news:<20020227202726...@mb-mf.aol.com>...
Gary
Gary
Cathy Boland
"Emory Ball" <dea...@ipass.net> wrote in message
news:64e1d85f.02022...@posting.google.com...
> Jason I for one hope you don't stop posting your reports here. I enjoy
> them greatly and since, most likely, I will never be in these
> situations its neat to see though your eyes what goes on inside pro,
> 1, 2 races. Most likly the detractors are just picking because it was
> not them in the break with Lance. Ignore them and post for those of us
> who want to read your reports.
> Thanks for taking the time.
Yes, ditto for me. The only reason I bother lurking on this group anymore
is to catch contributions like Jason's. That and Euro updates from Bart.
Jason, thanks again for posting. I really enjoyed reading it.
Cathy
Cathy Boland
"Alan J Bishop" <alanj...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:3C7E00A5...@bigpond.com...
> So what! Is this what comes of living in the relative isolation of Texas?
>
> In Europe, even in Australia, europros turn up to local races and
compete - and
> get beaten! It's just part of their training.
>
Ok, Alan. You've made your point. So lets hear some interesting stories
about some of the races you've done in Europe and Australia where a pro(s)
has(have) shown up. Did you stay in the winning break? What happened then?
Cathy
Tom Paterson
Especially since he didn't take any prizes with him, what's the problem?
Wouldn't the same riders have gone to the front anyway since they were the
strongest in a hilly race?
The Violet Crown S.A. (Austin) pulled Pro I, II, III race permits for many
years as an open invitation for Lance, Livingston, and other Pro/I's to enter.
He used to get blasted by a few mountain bikers when he raced (and didn't take
prizes) in that venue, also. Extreme ego sensitivity.
Keep on posting, Jason. I have a "rode with Lance story" much less glorious
than yours, but still treasured. Like I said, ignore the nabobs. Thanks.
--Tom Paterson
Dave Hansen
"Alan J Bishop" <alanj...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:3C7E00A5...@bigpond.com...
would it
> prove that Lance was a hero or a second rate rider or a second rate sprinter
> (we know the answer to that one)...
5th, 6th, 7th rate sprinter at best
Dave
Gary
Gary
Bob Schwartz
> Keep on posting, Jason. I have a "rode with Lance story" much less glorious
> than yours, but still treasured. Like I said, ignore the nabobs. Thanks.
Absolutely.
Years ago I bought a Campy corkscrew as a wedding present for some
friends. One of the big hulking ones, not one of the smaller plastic
ones. I had the chance to get Sean Kelly to autograph the box. He
had never seen one before, which surprised me a lot. But maybe he
doesn't hang out with wine drinkers.
That's as close as I can come to a Jason-like story although I do
have a friend that got to take a leak next to Eddy Merckx.
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cvccbikers/misc/eddy.html
Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com
Henry Chang
wrote:
>In article <3c7d697a....@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
>henri...@takethisout.home.com (Henry Chang) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:58:16 -0800, Yank Ng Yo Chang
>> <sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
>>
>> <a bunch of stuff snipped>
>>
>> So why should someone be banned from Masters Nationals if they meet
>> the age requirement?
>
>Nice troll.
>
>We've beat this one to death already.
True.
Keep in mind though, that you were complaining about a pro showing up
to a Pro1,2,3 race.
The horror! The horror!
Henry
Jason Waddell
>Date: 2/28/2002 1:15 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <LOkf8.22780$ZC3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
What? "attitude of a loser" You really must explain that one.
Are you saying that I am a bad racer for covering the early moves, that I
wasted precious early season reserves? Or are you saying that I should have
not covered those moves and let the groups roll away?
Kunich once again you show your true self. In Texas if I am in a break it gets
chased down. Not bragging or chest beating but it is the honest truth. If I
attack the whole field reacts, it happens every time I race in Texas. I go to
Texas for training and fitness, not to sit in and wait for the "big move".
this is not Flanders or Liege. Sometimes the little moves with nobodies in it
succeedes. So you have to be very active from the start.
jason
Heinz Getzler
> This past weekend in west Austin Lance showed up for the Pace Bend RR. He did
> it without fanfare and snuck in undetected before the start. He just rode in
> the rear of the field until about the halfway(40mile) point and then he decided
> to do some intervals. I was truly fortunate to be able to follow his attack
> when he went and was among the 9 other lucky guys that got to spend 40 miles in
> a 10 man break with a 3time TdF winner.
I was really suprised to hear that Lance was racing in Texas. Earlier
this month Lance was in San Diego and then went to Arizona (US Postal
training camp) and then went off to the US Postal training camp in
Spain. It is usually theorized that the more you travel the more you
lose your form. So it very well could be that Lance has disproven
this theory for traveling. On the otherhand it could be that Lance
deals very well with traveling.
>
> He never went so hard as to drop us or completely decimate the group but with
> him just being in the group we were all riding just a little bit harder than
> normal. He would force the pace occasionally just to make sure we were paying
> attention, but he let everyone have a turn and that has got to be about the
> smoothest pace line that I have ever been a part of. No one was screwing
> around, just riding hard.
>
> But the course was hilly as was Saturdays race and I was completely wasted with
> 10 miles to go. I sat out a pull and Lance comes around in the pace line and
> looks at me and says:
>
> LA: Are you gonna take your pull?
> JW: Uh, I'm a sprinter and don't go uphill very well
> LA: well get dropped then
>
> so that the 3 guys that were still able to halfway follow could get on his
> wheel. The rest of us just rode in with our 5 minute gap safe...
>
> Truly a unique experience to get to spend 2hrs in a small break with a rider of
> his caliber.
>
> jason
Tom Paterson
>> Keep on posting, Jason. I have a "rode with Lance story" much less glorious
>> than yours, but still treasured.
>Gary replied:
>Well, share it :)
At your invitation: The details are unimportant, except that I was in a 3-man
chase group Lance was waiting for in the hills at the famous Tuesday Nighter in
Austin. I got excited and blew (Jason vindicated?) before we got to him. He
turned and looked to see where I was when the other two caught, indicating he'd
wait. I was blasted, so I signaled to go on, which the other two were doing
anyway (Jason vindicated?). Right toward the end, I jumped back in on the flat
run-in (previous invitation by one of the group). When Lance came back past me
in the 5-6 man paceline, I looked him in the eye and exclaimed "I'll work!!!
(listening, Jason?) to which he laughed. I got to hit the front a couple of
times and then they wound it up, with Lance leading it out for someone else to
win. When I thanked him after, he laughed again and said "No problem".
There are many such stories around Austin and elsewhere. I'm burdening the NG
with this mainly to get a head start on the negative "Lance A-strong is a
_______" posts that will proliferate as the season goes on; proof being that
the negativity has started already, even though at least one actual participant
(thanks again, Jason) has reported in a very positive manner about this affair.
Like I said, very little glory, except that my daughter knows I "raced with
Lance once". (Disappointing reality details to be gathered and filed with other
similar as life goes on.) Thanks for asking, Gary.
--Tom Paterson
John Forrest Tomlinson
news:3c7e63f9$0$35578$1dc6...@news.corecomm.net...
> Tom Paterson wrote:
> > Keep on posting, Jason. I have a "rode with Lance story" much less
glorious
> > than yours, but still treasured. Like I said, ignore the nabobs.
Thanks.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> Years ago I bought a Campy corkscrew as a wedding present for some
> friends. One of the big hulking ones, not one of the smaller plastic
> ones. I had the chance to get Sean Kelly to autograph the box. He
> had never seen one before, which surprised me a lot. But maybe he
> doesn't hang out with wine drinkers.
>
> That's as close as I can come to a Jason-like story although I do
> have a friend that got to take a leak next to Eddy Merckx.
>
I met Ronde Champ in a parking lot once I think.
JT
--
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
*******************************************
Jason Michael Blank
> I still don't know why people from 30 to 34 are called "Masters"
> because there's not really any substantial age degradation in that age
> group (I think Cippolini recently won another race and he's 34). The
> degradation from ages 35 to 39 is marginal enough that people in this
> age group can still win races at nearly the highest level of the sport.
It baffles me too, but then I'm a runner and we designate masters as 40+
(seniors 50+, etc.). I don't need to give this group examples of
endurance athletes hanging on (or dominating) into their mid thirties,
but I will point out that Carl Lewis and Linford Christie both won
Olympic golds at age 36.
Jason
_______________________________________________________________________
Jason Blank Hopkins Marine Station
Enloe HS '92, Duke '96, Stanford ?? Oceanview Boulevard
jbl...@stanford.edu Pacific Grove, CA 93950
"I hate it when people say, 'If basketball doesn't work out, you can
always fall back on your degree.' A degree should never be something
you fall back on. It's something you should use."
- Jason Williams, Duke student-athlete
_______________________________________________________________________
Yank Ng Yo Chang
Nothing -- just for the sake of arguing itself. I thought you knew
that. By the way, I changed my mind. I now care and pro's should be
allowed to compete for those medals.
Later,
Yank
Yank Ng Yo Chang
>
> ...Real racers don't race stupid EVER. ...
I'm a "real racer" and I've done lots of stupid Cat 3 stuff. I've also
not done anything, and that was stupid too. I've learned a lot from my
mistakes. I doubt there's any racer who doesn't second guess
themselves. I would say they're stupid if they don't.
Yank
Mike Gladu
henri...@takethisout.home.com (Henry Chang) wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:05:00 -0600, velo...@mac.com (Mike Gladu)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <3c7d697a....@news1.news.adelphia.net>,
> >henri...@takethisout.home.com (Henry Chang) wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:58:16 -0800, Yank Ng Yo Chang
> >> <sw...@slippery.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> <a bunch of stuff snipped>
> >>
> >> So why should someone be banned from Masters Nationals if they meet
> >> the age requirement?
> >
> >Nice troll.
> >
> >We've beat this one to death already.
>
>
>
> True.
>
> Keep in mind though, that you were complaining about a pro showing up
> to a Pro1,2,3 race.
>
> The horror! The horror!
>
> Henry
I complained about no such thing. My beef was with a pro 'showing up' (not
entered) at a 1/2/3 (no pre designation) race (as it was described in the
first few anecdotes), and affecting the outcome.
...you apparently don't read all the replies to your stuff...
I made two mistakes (PBRR had a Pro permit, and Lance was entered), so I
took it back.
Case closed.
TritonRider
It's great to hear real stories about Lance that haven't been spun by the PR
machine.
Keep posting Jason.!
Bill C.
Henry Chang
wrote:
>
>I made two mistakes (PBRR had a Pro permit, and Lance was entered), so I
>took it back.
>
>Case closed.
Agreed.
Carl Sundquist
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:LOkf8.22780$ZC3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Real racers don't race stupid EVER.
You kinda have to wonder about Jacky Durand sometimes...
Bob Schwartz
> I met Ronde Champ in a parking lot once I think.
Was she hot?
Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com
Tom Kunich
"Yank Ng Yo Chang" <sw...@slippery.com> wrote in message
news:3C7EC9E4...@slippery.com...
Come on Greg, the only "real" you are is fat. :-)
Tom Kunich
news:u7tsru2...@corp.supernews.com...
One of the smartest racers in the pack. He doesn't have the blast to be a
winning rider (usually) but has garnered more publicity for his sponsors
than practically any other rider in the bunch.
Tom Kunich
news:20020228150652...@mb-mm.aol.com...
>
> What? "attitude of a loser" You really must explain that one.
Let's consider this Jason. You spot Lance Armstrong in your race and you
take a flyer in the first break. Did you really think that it was going to
stick? You're a winner now and that ain't the moves of a winner when there
is someone in the race that virtually has to show everyone up to maintain
his own reputation. Imagine what would have been the headlines if Lance
showed up at a race and finished 102. So obviously if he shows at a race
he's going to put on a demonstration.
By the time he did you were hard pressed to stay with him. I think you've
got more in you than that.
> Are you saying that I am a bad racer for covering the early moves, that I
> wasted precious early season reserves? Or are you saying that I should
have
> not covered those moves and let the groups roll away?
If you're racing the early races just for training that's fine. But you
obvoiusly would have gained more by sticking around and watching Lance and
then being able to ride all the way to the line with the front group. You
would have gotten a better finish too since you've got a kick.
> Kunich once again you show your true self. In Texas if I am in a break it
gets
> chased down. Not bragging or chest beating but it is the honest truth. If
I
> attack the whole field reacts, it happens every time I race in Texas. I
go to
> Texas for training and fitness, not to sit in and wait for the "big move".
> this is not Flanders or Liege. Sometimes the little moves with nobodies
in it
> succeedes. So you have to be very active from the start.
Come on Jason! No move by a bunch of nobodies in a race with Lance Armstrong
in it is going to stick. And you really have to work on that thing about
being able to recognize people that are on your side.
Tom Kunich
compete - and
> get beaten! It's just part of their training.
They aren't racing against a bunch of nobodies. There are racers all over
Europe who only race their neighborhoods and in those races no one can beat
them.
> So suppose Lance had of stayed in the bunch? Suppose it came down to a
sprint
> finish and he got beaten by an average back blocks kicker? So what? would
it
> prove that Lance was a hero or a second rate rider or a second rate
sprinter
> (we know the answer to that one)...
You're missing Mike's point -- no matter what Lance did he effected the
results. My point is so what? That's racing.
Bart
> You kinda have to wonder about Jacky Durand sometimes...
He has a palmares, and good contracts. Thomas Wegmuller was another
case...
Mike Gladu
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
True. Case closed.
Kevin Metcalfe
>
> Come on Jason! No move by a bunch of nobodies in a race with Lance Armstrong
> in it is going to stick. And you really have to work on that thing about
> being able to recognize people that are on your side.
Yes, but what if you can be part of the bunch of nobody's that get's
off the front. While you're off the front a "somebody" like Lance
makes a ferocious attack that you couldn't cover if your life depended
on it and bridges up to the group of "nobody's" that you're in? Now
you're in the cat bird seat while if you had waited around and tried
to follow Lance, you'd be just another one of the guys that Lance
dropped...
It is nearly always more "doable" to ride in the break once it's
established than to follow the move that creates it if you're not
among the strongest riders in the race.
It's that whole tactics thing Tom.
Kevin Metcalfe
nslc...@yahoo.com
Pleasant Hill, CA
Steven L. Sheffield
<velodrome-010...@user-33qs1gf.dialup.mindspring.com>,
velo...@mac.com (Mike Gladu) wrote:
> In article <CdGf8.25877$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > You're missing Mike's point -- no matter what Lance did he effected the
> > results. My point is so what? That's racing.
>
> True. Case closed.
By the same token, had Kunich or I showed up, no matter what we did, we
would have affected the results as well. ANY racer who shows up affects
the results to some extent.
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at mac dot com
aitch tee tea pea colon four word slash forward slash double ewe double you double yew dot veloworks dot com
Steven L. Sheffield
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Which nets him a good salary ... and occasionally his attacks work,
padding his palmares.
Ron Hall
Hear, hear. Please keep posting Jason...it's really enjoyable stuff!
Ignore the yappers. :)
-Ron H
Tim Mullin
> I doubt there's any racer who doesn't second guess
> themselves. I would say they're stupid if they don't.
So, what would you call a stupid person who doesn't race, but spends
all their time second guessing real racers? Oh....wait....never mind,
I know the answer to that one. You'd call that person "Kunich."
Mike Gladu
L. Sheffield" <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote:
> In article
> <velodrome-010...@user-33qs1gf.dialup.mindspring.com>,
> velo...@mac.com (Mike Gladu) wrote:
>
> > In article <CdGf8.25877$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > You're missing Mike's point -- no matter what Lance did he effected the
> > > results. My point is so what? That's racing.
> >
> > True. Case closed.
>
> By the same token, had Kunich or I showed up, no matter what we did, we
> would have affected the results as well. ANY racer who shows up affects
> the results to some extent.
>
> Steven L. Sheffield
Not quite. Change "...any rider who shows up..." to "...any rider who is
legally entered" affects the results..., and you have the non-issue I
arrived at after being corrected.
"Show up" in an event I'm officiating as a bandit entry and I'll cut you
out of the herd like a calf for branding.
Jason Waddell
>From: "Tom Kunich" tku...@earthlink.net
>Date: 3/1/2002 1:34 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <Z9Gf8.25874$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
>
>"Jason Waddell" <jjwb...@aol.com12345> wrote in message
>news:20020228150652...@mb-mm.aol.com...
>>
>> What? "attitude of a loser" You really must explain that one.
>
>Let's consider this Jason. You spot Lance Armstrong in your race and you
>take a flyer in the first break. Did you really think that it was going to
>stick?
No I didn't think that the first break would stick, but the break that you
don't go with is always the one that sticks. you would know this if you had
ever raced seriously.
You're a winner now and that ain't the moves of a winner when there
>is someone in the race that virtually has to show everyone up to maintain
>his own reputation. Imagine what would have been the headlines if Lance
>showed up at a race and finished 102. So obviously if he shows at a race
>he's going to put on a demonstration.
>
IF you followed this thread at all you would have read that I didn't know he
was in the race until almost half-way and i already had 15+ miles of breakaways
in my legs. But when he did go, out of 80 guys I was one of the 9 who could
respond and I made it.
>> Are you saying that I am a bad racer for covering the early moves, that I
>> wasted precious early season reserves? Or are you saying that I should
>have
>> not covered those moves and let the groups roll away?
>
>If you're racing the early races just for training that's fine. But you
>obvoiusly would have gained more by sticking around and watching Lance and
>then being able to ride all the way to the line with the front group. You
>would have gotten a better finish too since you've got a kick.
>
" I would have gained more by watching Lance" WTF are you talking about? I
think when it comes to one-day local races in Texas I know just about as much
as anyone, including Lance. I was able to ride all the way to the finish,
Lance attacked with 5 miles to go and took three of the 9 guys with him. Even
if I hadn't done crap in the first 30 miles I would not have been able to
follow his attack on that hill. Finishing order doesnt' mean diddly this time
of year. If you don't win then it doesn't matter. This was my first race of
the season(training) and your know-it-all ass is trying to tell my how to race
when you are a cat 5.
>> Kunich once again you show your true self. In Texas if I am in a break it
>gets
>> chased down. Not bragging or chest beating but it is the honest truth. If
>I
>> attack the whole field reacts, it happens every time I race in Texas. I
>go to
>> Texas for training and fitness, not to sit in and wait for the "big move".
>> this is not Flanders or Liege. Sometimes the little moves with nobodies
>in it
>> succeedes. So you have to be very active from the start.
>
>Come on Jason! No move by a bunch of nobodies in a race with Lance Armstrong
>in it is going to stick. And you really have to work on that thing about
>being able to recognize people that are on your side.
>
Read above that I didn't know LA was in the race until halfway.
Who exactly is on "my side" Mr. know-it-all.
Kunich, once and for all shut up.
this is the last time that I will ever reply to one of your posts.
jason
Yank Ng Yo Chang
> "Steven L. Sheffield" <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote:
> > <velodrome-010...@user-33qs1gf.dialup.mindspring.com>,
> > velo...@mac.com (Mike Gladu) wrote:
> > > "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > You're missing Mike's point -- no matter what Lance did he effected the
> > > > results. My point is so what? That's racing.
> > >
> > > True. Case closed.
> >
> > By the same token, had Kunich or I showed up, no matter what we did, we
> > would have affected the results as well. ANY racer who shows up affects
> > the results to some extent.
> >
> > Steven L. Sheffield
>
> Not quite. Change "...any rider who shows up..." to "...any rider who is
> legally entered" affects the results..., and you have the non-issue I
> arrived at after being corrected.
The Heisenburg Uncertrainty Principle says you can't even look at
something without affecting it.
Mike Gladu
Tom Kunich
news:71b8fc58.02030...@posting.google.com...
And I agree with you Kevin. However, Jason has shown that he can stick with
some pretty mean attacks. I'm sure that Lance could attack and drop everyone
but why would he show up at a local race and do that? Lance has never shown
himself to be anything like that self absorbed.
Tom Kunich
news:stevens-9D2BB3...@nnrp04.earthlink.net...
> In article
> <velodrome-010...@user-33qs1gf.dialup.mindspring.com>,
> velo...@mac.com (Mike Gladu) wrote:
>
> > In article <CdGf8.25877$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > You're missing Mike's point -- no matter what Lance did he effected
the
> > > results. My point is so what? That's racing.
> >
> > True. Case closed.
>
> By the same token, had Kunich or I showed up, no matter what we did, we
> would have affected the results as well. ANY racer who shows up affects
> the results to some extent.
Even I ain't that stupid Steven. The only way I could effect the race would
be if they were lapping me and I got in the way.
Carl Sundquist
line first? In terms of publicity you're probably dead-on, but that isn't in
the context of what we were discussing. As for race tactics, yes, Durand has
won some good races, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that the peloton watches
him ride off into the horizon, periodically looking at the course profile
chart in their pockets. Eventually the pace picks up as the selection is
being made and usually they gather him up on their way to the finish line,
like at Paris Tours. Every once in a while, the peloton doesn't quite heat
up enough to catch him, and he wins. Now I've oversimplified this whole
thing, and it still takes a hell of a rider to do what he does, but
tactically smart? Do you remember your words about Ekimov from last October?
<<Ekimov has been and remains one of my favorite riders. (snipped)
And he didn't have good coaching
here and if you recall he used to do that perfectly stupid trick of
trying to break away in the last 5 k time and time again despite the
fact that everyone was on to the fact that if he got a couple of seconds
on the group that no one could close on his wheel.>>
So why was Ekimov "perfectly stupid", but Durand "one of the smartest
riders in the pack"?
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:j2Gf8.25870$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Mike Gladu
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Steven L. Sheffield" <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote in message
> news:stevens-9D2BB3...@nnrp04.earthlink.net...
> > In article
> > <velodrome-010...@user-33qs1gf.dialup.mindspring.com>,
> > velo...@mac.com (Mike Gladu) wrote:
> >
> > > In article <CdGf8.25877$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > > "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You're missing Mike's point -- no matter what Lance did he effected
> the
> > > > results. My point is so what? That's racing.
> > >
> > > True. Case closed.
> >
> > By the same token, had Kunich or I showed up, no matter what we did, we
> > would have affected the results as well. ANY racer who shows up affects
> > the results to some extent.
>
> Even I ain't that stupid Steven. The only way I could effect the race would
> be if they were lapping me and I got in the way.
Welcome to r.b.r. Pro/1/2 Race Tactics 101 <grin>.
Ilan Vardi
>
> So why was Ekimov "perfectly stupid", but Durand "one of the smartest
> riders in the pack"?
Because Durand is one of the only riders to wear knee warmers on cold
stages.
-ilan
Carl Sundquist
"Ilan Vardi" <ila...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b26c09dc.02030...@posting.google.com...
Tom Kunich
>
> <<Ekimov has been and remains one of my favorite riders. (snipped)
> And he didn't have good coaching
> here and if you recall he used to do that perfectly stupid trick of
> trying to break away in the last 5 k time and time again despite the
> fact that everyone was on to the fact that if he got a couple of seconds
> on the group that no one could close on his wheel.>>
>
> So why was Ekimov "perfectly stupid", but Durand "one of the smartest
> riders in the pack"?
Very simple -- Durand takes out directly after the start and generally leads
for half the race or more. Durand can't win a race against the big guns
anytime. His only hope of winning is by riding like a crazyman. He does it
to garner great publicity (which has kept his job when others of his skill
level are plowing in the fields) and he gets the occasional win which
other's of his talent will never see.
Ekimov on the other hand would stick in the pack for the whole race as Mr.
Invisible and then make a jump near the end hoping that his original pursuit
speed would snatch him victory. I don't think that it ever worked once and
instead of getting publicity he generally got nothing but jeers. I think
that Eki should have concentrated on going with a long break. It would have
been easier to try his little pursuit trick if he didn't have to race
against the power of a peloton.
Slava was a racer who started with incredible talent but after coming to the
west I think that his training suffered as he tried to learn to live in a
free society. He wasn't paid enough to hire first rate coaches and he didn't
know how to super-motivate himself because he had been one of the USSR's
prodigies who had been kept in comfort and trained with an iron program
without any worries to himself.
Yank Ng Yo Chang
> Come on Greg, the only "real" you are is fat. :-)
I am not FAT!
I am losing weight!
I am getting into EXCELLENT SHAPE!
SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!
Amit
> for half the race or more. Durand can't win a race against the big guns
> anytime. His only hope of winning is by riding like a crazyman. He does it
> to garner great publicity (which has kept his job when others of his skill
> level are plowing in the fields) and he gets the occasional win which
> other's of his talent will never see.
>
That's not true, he's one of the best rouleurs in the business. His
palamres better than most pro cyclists with many good results in
stages and some classics. His style is unorthodox but he still has to
be a strong rider to pull it off as often as he does, at least a
couple times a year. His main flaw is that he's not a team rider.
> Ekimov on the other hand would stick in the pack for the whole race as Mr.
> Invisible and then make a jump near the end hoping that his original pursuit
> speed would snatch him victory. I don't think that it ever worked once ...
It's worked many times for many riders (including Ekimov),
particularly Jan Raas and riders he's managed (Nidjam, Boogerd,
Dekker). It doesn't work as well when sprinting teams have their
trains keeping the race together.
>
> Slava was a racer who started with incredible talent but after coming to the
> west I think that his training suffered as he tried to learn to live in a
> free society. He wasn't paid enough to hire first rate coaches and he didn't
> know how to super-motivate himself because he had been one of the USSR's
> prodigies who had been kept in comfort and trained with an iron program
> without any worries to himself.
How you can say this seriously is beyond me, he raced at the highest
level for over a decade. I was watching the 1990 World's where he won
the pursuit, and 10 years later he won the Olympics (van Moorsel did
the same thing too!). He might not've contested major tours but he was
a solid and above average pro for many years. I don't think anyone can
expect any more from a young rider when they turn pro.
As for the money issue, he was very well paid (though a lot might've
gone to the Russian Federation). His was one of the first big rookie
signings, and he promtly won the TT in the Tour of the Med (48 kph in
a 53x15!).
I think your knowledge of cycling is based on pure speculation and
superficial spectation. It's okay to be an armchair QB, but you are a
bit clued out. I don't think you know anything about what racers do on
and off the bike and what actually happens during races.
-Amit