Trains
Cliff
Boater
> "The Candidates as Trains"
> http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
That's just...hilarious.
Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
Protagonist
fred....@yahoo.com
Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. Wait, no... that won't happen.
He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
messiah.
What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
Fred
John Forrest Tomlinson
>On Oct 11, 1:45 pm, Boater <say-w...@esad.org> wrote:
>> Cliff wrote:
>> > "The Candidates as Trains"
>> > http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
>>
>> That's just...hilarious.
>>
>> Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
>
>Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
>Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
>Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
>himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
>with his hands in the cookie jar.
Who are Obama's Fannie/Freddie-connected financial advisors?
What "cookie jar"?
Where do you get this stuff?
BTW, are you aware that the head of the McCain campaign's company was
being piad by FreddieMac $15,000 per MONTH through August of this
year? And that in July (and possibly at other times) Mr. McCain denied
that any of his staff worked for that company (meaning McCain was
either being tricked by the head of his campaign, or lying. If it was
the former, I'd think he would have fired him...)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html?em
John McCain - straight talker you betcha.
fred....@yahoo.com
wrote:
uhhh, Raines, Jim Johnson, etc...
"The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political
bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama. Now remember,
he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab
the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris
Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."
You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. I'm sure you don't see it that
way, but you've got blinders on. Besides, its all Bush's fault,
right?
tenjets
Fred, you're way off base. If your party didn't screw the pooch so
badly, you'd never have to worry about non-socialists like obama. Your
party is wrong.
P.Chisholm
don't feed the animals....................
P.Chisholm
And McCain was a poor Naval Officer and aviator who said he 'found
religion' after Hanoi but was a self described 'wild man' after he
returned. He set new records for womanizing and drinking..in spite of
his wife, who was hurt in a car crash and could barley walk. John was
living the high life in DC. Just the guy we want running things.
ST
THIS was signed by McCain:
http://humanevents.com/images/letter_050506c.gif
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973
McCain Letter Demanded 2006 Action on Fannie and Freddie
by Human Events
10/10/2008
Sen. John McCain's 2006 demand for regulatory action on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could have prevented current financial crisis, as HUMAN EVENTS learned from the letter shown in full text below.
McCain's letter -- signed by nineteen other senators -- said that it was "...vitally important that Congress take the necessary steps to ensure that [Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac]...operate in a safe and sound manner.[and]..More importantly, Congress must ensure that the American taxpayer is protected in the event that either...should fail."
Sen. Obama did not sign the letter, nor did any other Democrat.
Bill C
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds like Ted Kennedy, but McCain never abandoned anyone to die, and
didn't bother reporting it until he sobered up.
http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2008/10/11/the_coming_obama_thugocracy
http://tinyurl.com/3hjgf3
Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco
By Jeff Jacoby
Globe Columnist / September 28, 2008
Bill C
John Forrest Tomlinson
Frank Raines had one or two phone calls with Obama staffers and now
he's one of Obama's financial advisors, despite both him and the Obama
campaign saying he's not? Nonsense. Jim Johnson was but resigned from
the Obama campaign before Freddie/Fannie imploded. He may be
culpable, but he to say he would be forced to resign is nonsensical
since he already has you dope.
>"The top three U.S. senators getting big Fannie and Freddie political
>bucks were Democrats and No. 2 is Sen. Barack Obama. Now remember,
>he's only been in the Senate four years, but he still managed to grab
>the No. 2 spot ahead of John Kerry — decades in the Senate — and Chris
>Dodd, who is chairman of the Senate Banking Committee."
Where is this from? Butting quotes around some blog quote doesn't
make it right.
PS - I believe Obama got more contributions than McCain from Fannie
and Freddie employees, but that's like saying that if factory workers
are contributing to a campaging the candidate is going to favor the
company. Not necessarily. We have to look where decisionmakers in
the company are channeling money. Such as to the McCain campaign
head....
>You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
>shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
>loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
>to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. I'm sure you don't see it that
>way, but you've got blinders on. Besides, its all Bush's fault,
>right?
Mainly if you include Plus Phil Gramm and the Republican leadership of
Congress. Probably Greenspan too, A tiny bit maybe Rubin (he's
actually an Obama advisor).
John Forrest Tomlinson
>
>THIS was signed by McCain:
>
>http://humanevents.com/images/letter_050506c.gif
>http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28973
>
>
>McCain Letter Demanded 2006 Action on Fannie and Freddie
>by Human Events
>10/10/2008
>
>
>Sen. John McCain's 2006 demand for regulatory action on Fannie Mae and
>Freddie Mac could have prevented current financial crisis, as HUMAN EVENTS
>learned from the letter shown in full text below.
>
>McCain's letter -- signed by nineteen other senators -- said that it was
>"...vitally important that Congress take the necessary steps to ensure that
>[Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac]...operate in a safe and sound
>manner.[and]..More importantly, Congress must ensure that the American
>taxpayer is protected in the event that either...should fail."
That letter is about accounting troubles -- surely important but not
about the underlying solvency of the organizations. The focus is on
stopping waste, not avoiding an implosion.
John Forrest Tomlinson
So don't vote for Kennedy.
But I guess because Kennedy was a wildman that taints the other
Democrats who might run for president. Pretty much any of them. And
Hanoi Jane leaned democrat. And Michael Moore! Reverand Wright!!
Bogeyty wogety.
Curly Surmudgeon
Embarrass them instead, take a look at McCain's advisors and see if you
can find a single one that wasn't a washington lobbist.
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jail to the Chief
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
Bill C
wrote:
>
> So don't vote for Kennedy.
>
> But I guess because Kennedy was a wildman that taints the other
> Democrats who might run for president. Pretty much any of them. And
> Hanoi Jane leaned democrat. And Michael Moore! Reverand Wright!!
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://tinyurl.com/4h5lz4
Obama fundraiser, convicted of fraud, spills beans By MIKE ROBINSON,
Associated Press Writer
Sat Oct 11, 11:44 AM ET
CHICAGO - Jailed political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko, the Chicago
real estate developer who helped launch Barack Obama on his political
career, is whispering secrets to federal prosecutors about corruption
in Illinois and the political fallout could be explosive.
Bill C
Bill C
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=
Obama's ACORN Connection to Voter Fraud
October 10, 2008 06:00 PM ET | Bonnie Erbe | Permanent Link | Print
Hate to say it, but when one thinks of voter fraud, one usually
associates it with the GOP, the 2000 election, and the debate over who
won Florida. You remember, voting machines that didn't work, long
lines to vote in predominantly Democratic districts, and recounts that
weren't accurate.
This election brings with it stories of voter fraud, but this time on
the Democratic side. It seems ACORN, a community organizing group that
normally helps poor people with low-income housing issues, has
registered thousands of people to vote in Democratic districts. Some
of these supposed voters reportedly are dead, nonexistent, or use
storefronts as their home addresses, as told by CNN:
No Teddy in sight.
Bill C
Howard Kveck
fred....@yahoo.com wrote:
Franklin Raines is not and has never been a member of or advisor to Obama's
campaign. Johnson was brought in to help vet VP candidates - nothing more.
> You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
> shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
> loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
> to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. I'm sure you don't see it that
> way, but you've got blinders on. Besides, its all Bush's fault,
> right?
Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for the
current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not racist much,
are y'all?):
______________________
Federal Reserve Board data show that:
_ More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private
lending institutions.
_ Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and
moderate-income borrowers that year.
_ Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing
law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.
The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of
underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and
extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets reported
Friday.
(snipper)
To be sure, encouraging lower-income Americans to become homeowners gave
unsophisticated borrowers and unscrupulous lenders and mortgage brokers more chances
to turn dreams of homeownership in nightmares.
But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small
portion of overall lending. And at the height of the housing boom in 2005 and 2006,
Republicans and their party's standard bearer, President Bush, didn't criticize any
sort of lending, frequently boasting that they were presiding over the highest-ever
rates of U.S. homeownership.
______________________
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html
--
tanx,
Howard
Abandon the Creeping Meatball!
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Howard Kveck
Bill C <trito...@verizon.net> wrote:
Well, that surely means all kinds of bad news for Obama. Because it's so specific,
you know. Any William Ayers news today?
> http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzE
> yMjE0ODI=
>
> http://tinyurl.com/52p2fk
>
> Obama's ACORN Connection to Voter Fraud
> October 10, 2008 06:00 PM ET | Bonnie Erbe | Permanent Link | Print
> Hate to say it, but when one thinks of voter fraud, one usually
> associates it with the GOP, the 2000 election, and the debate over who
> won Florida. You remember, voting machines that didn't work, long
> lines to vote in predominantly Democratic districts, and recounts that
> weren't accurate.
>
> This election brings with it stories of voter fraud, but this time on
> the Democratic side. It seems ACORN, a community organizing group that
> normally helps poor people with low-income housing issues, has
> registered thousands of people to vote in Democratic districts. Some
> of these supposed voters reportedly are dead, nonexistent, or use
> storefronts as their home addresses, as told by CNN:
>
> No Teddy in sight.
> Bill C
You guys don't understand the difference between "voter fraud" and "registration
fraud," do you? ACORN hires unemployed and homeless people to help register voters
and also help the person they employed. SOme of them have filled out a bunch of bad
registration forms because they get hired again if they do a "good job." When they
turn in the forms, ACORN people look them over and sort them into three piles: good
ones, questionable ones and obviously bad ones. The law requires that all filled out
forms get turned in, so ACORN does that, *flagging* the questionable and bad ones.
The local election officials can do what needs to be done with these forms, which
usually means getting rid of them. So how is it that ACORN is doing a bad thing if
they are *alerting* election officials that some of the forms are questionable or
bad? Furthermore, even if there are a few registrations that get through that are
under fake names, do you think someone is going to show up and claim to be that
person and vote? If you actually think this is going to have any effecton an
election, then go out and find any and all references to real voter fraud, where
people voted multiple times. Good luck finding those, Bill. All this is about is
trying to find an excuse - ANY excuse - for the fact that McCain is between 7 and 11
points behind as of today.
ST
YOURhoward-ACD95...@newsgroups.comcast.net, "Howard Kveck"
<YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
Dumb Howie,
Acorn does not flag anything! IF their surrogates are doing questionable
work to register people it is THEIR responsibility!
Bribing people with cigarettes and such to register 72 times??
Howard Kveck
> Acorn does not flag anything!
Wrong again, pinhead.
> IF their surrogates are doing questionable
> work to register people it is THEIR responsibility!
That's why they flag the questionable and obviously bad ones when they hand them
over to the election officials. They are taking responsibility.
Howard Kveck
Bill C <trito...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Sounds like Ted Kennedy, but McCain never abandoned anyone to die, and
> didn't bother reporting it until he sobered up.
After the accident that involved his plane on the USS Forrestal, he climbed out of
the plane, went downstairs and eventually left. He did not offer to help fight the
fires or rescue anyone. 134 sailors died. I'm not saying he caused the accident - he
didn't. But his actions after he got clear of the scene look mighty similar to
"abandoning [some]one."
________________________
Whatever the circumstances of the fire零 origins, McCain did not stay on deck to help
fight the blaze as the men around him did. With the firefighting crew virtually wiped
out, men untrained in fighting fires had to pick up the fire hoses, rescue the
wounded or frantically throw bombs and even planes over the ship零 side to prevent
further tragedy. McCain left them behind and went down to the hangar-bay level, where
he briefly helped crew members heave some bombs overboard. After that, he went to the
pilot零 ready room and watched the fire on a television monitor hooked to a camera
trained on the deck.
________________________
http://tinyurl.com/4ohysr
> http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2008/10/11/the_coming_obama_thugo
> cracy
"Thugocracy?" Are you kidding? After the last seven years, someone failed to grok
the irony in accusing Obama of that. How ridiculous.
Cliff
wrote:
Both he & herr shrubbie are/were justly famed party animals
as well as academic failures.
Why don't we elect some engineers, scientists & mathematicians?
--
Cliff
John R. Carroll
Because they suck at the business of governing Cliff. They lack the skills
and training to do it.
JC
Cliff
>On Oct 11, 1:45 pm, Boater <say-w...@esad.org> wrote:
>> Cliff wrote:
>> > "The Candidates as Trains"
>> > http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
>>
>> That's just...hilarious.
>>
>> Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
>
>Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
>Freddie and Fannie until after the election,
Huh?
>you'd see most of
>Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame
Said parties are exactly the ones herr shrubbie put in charge.
And who demanded all this deregulatiion & tax cut for
millionaires (so that they pay a lesser percentage, if any at all,
than average Joe)?
>AND Nobama
>himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
>with his hands in the cookie jar.
And how did the trickle down work out?
>Wait, no... that won't happen.
>He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
>messiah.
Who exported the jobs & whined that you get paid too much?
>What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
>same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
Find those "WMDs" yet?
>Fred
Palin can see the moon from her moose so she's a Space Cowboy.
--
Cliff
P.Chisholm
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3hjgf3
> Frank's fingerprints are all over the financial fiasco
> By Jeff Jacoby
> Globe Columnist / September 28, 2008
>
> Bill C
Didn't know Ted was running for Pres...hmmmm.
John did well while in captivity, did what the SRO told him to do in a
very tough situation. BUT as a Naval Aviator and Officer, he left a
lot to desire. Particularly post VietNam. He was 'given' VA-174, in
spite of not having a previous operational command, was essentially
'given' O-6, was never really competitive for flag.
He was shuffled off to DC, rather than stay in the operational
mainstream of the USN. He was 'plucked', given a cushy job rather than
send him to sea as say a CV XO.
BUT his carousing post VN is legendary. To say he hung out with women
of questionable repute puts it mildly.
rand mair fheal
Cliff <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote:
they tell the truth
arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
Cliff
Nothing based on lies, superstitions & ignorance works very well, John.
Though the very worst of the superstitions get weeded out. Everybody
dies.
--
Cliff
John R. Carroll
Lyndon Johnson couldn't add Cliff but he was one of he most effecive
legistlators of our time. Look at all of the Kennedy programs he got passed.
The last engineer we had was incredibly smart but didn't govern effecively
enough to get a second term.
Bill Clinton, OTOH, has real intellect but his genius was getting things
done, including reelection.
The very last thing we need right now is a technocrat.
JC
Bob Schwartz
> To say he hung out with women
> of questionable repute puts it mildly.
Heh. A characteristic he carries with him still.
Bob Schwartz
fred....@yahoo.com
> In article <65ff317b-e348-47f3-905a-ddb5533bd...@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Not blaming anything on the minorities, only those who pander to them
but never actually help them.
mmc
trivialities like "facts"!
We want people that are just like us! If Jacky Broyles and Dunlap would just
run....pig huntin, gitar playin, NASCAR lovin, trailer livin heaven!
Carla Fong
rand mair fheal wrote:
>> Why don't we elect some engineers, scientists & mathematicians?
>
> they tell the truth
>
An engineer acquaintance of mine is running for mayor of his town. He
says that this campaign season, for a change, people are running highly
tuned BS detectors -
Smart guy - will probably get elected in spite of being transgendered :)
check it out: www.vote4stu.com
Carla
Fred Fredburger
> On Oct 11, 1:45 pm, Boater <say-w...@esad.org> wrote:
>> Cliff wrote:
>>> "The Candidates as Trains"
>>> http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
>> That's just...hilarious.
>>
>> Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
>
> Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
> Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
> Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
> himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
> with his hands in the cookie jar. Wait, no... that won't happen.
> He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
> messiah.
>
> What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
> same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
You left out the part about eating babies.
Fred Fredburger
> Bogeyty wogety.
>
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE if Obama gets elected!
Mark my words, don't say I didn't warn you.
Donald Munro
> BUT his carousing post VN is legendary. To say he hung out with women of
> questionable repute puts it mildly.
She must have been called Fanny.
Fred Fredburger
From this stream of uncritical acceptance of McCain talking points, I
can only conclude that you are attempting to prove JT correct in his
characterizations of you.
Point made.
John Forrest Tomlinson
<trito...@verizon.net> wrote:
>http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=
>
>http://tinyurl.com/52p2fk
>
>Obama's ACORN Connection to Voter Fraud
>October 10, 2008 06:00 PM ET | Bonnie Erbe | Permanent Link | Print
>Hate to say it, but when one thinks of voter fraud, one usually
>associates it with the GOP, the 2000 election, and the debate over who
>won Florida. You remember, voting machines that didn't work, long
>lines to vote in predominantly Democratic districts, and recounts that
>weren't accurate.
>
>This election brings with it stories of voter fraud, but this time on
>the Democratic side. It seems ACORN, a community organizing group that
>normally helps poor people with low-income housing issues, has
>registered thousands of people to vote in Democratic districts. Some
>of these supposed voters reportedly are dead, nonexistent, or use
>storefronts as their home addresses, as told by CNN:
National Review? Glenn Beck?
Congratultions Bill - finally your true colors have come out. You're
a right-winger. Just accept it. I'm not arguing with you that that's
bad (you know what I think) but finally it's straight-up obvious.
Thanks for at last being clear about this.
ST
YOURhoward-B029F...@newsgroups.comcast.net, "Howard Kveck"
<YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article <C516B148.5D7F5%sds...@sbcglobal.net>, ST <sds...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Acorn does not flag anything!
>
> Wrong again, pinhead.
>
>> IF their surrogates are doing questionable
>> work to register people it is THEIR responsibility!
>
> That's why they flag the questionable and obviously bad ones when they hand
> them
> over to the election officials. They are taking responsibility.
Prove it! show a source/link.
Roy Blankenship
<fred....@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2d8f2bd0-c954-439f...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 11, 1:45 pm, Boater <say-w...@esad.org> wrote:
> Cliff wrote:
> > "The Candidates as Trains"
> > http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
>
> That's just...hilarious.
>
> Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
with his hands in the cookie jar. Wait, no... that won't happen.
He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
messiah.
What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
Fred
-----------------------------------
Nice try, Fred.....
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2005/260505newbushism.htm
Fred Fredburger
Fred Fredburger
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/acorn_rallies_its_troops.php
"Voter registration cards aren't the property of ACORN or any other
group, and ACORN is required by law to turn in every completed form --
even if they're obviously fraudulent. ACORN insists it has procedures in
place to flag these forms..."
Not that I expect this to change anyone's opinion.
r15...@aol.com
> You can lay the blame for the current credit mess squarely on the
> shoulders of democrats who pressured the lending industry to give
> loans to the poor and who refused to create the approriate regulations
> to prevent the meltdown we're seeing. ...
Hold it, are you high? The derivatives bubble is a quadrillion. That's
not 4 trillion, by the way, that's 1000 trillion. All the mortgages
put together are spittle in a bucket. But nice one -- it's all the
fault of the poor, and the democrats. Go drink more koolaid.
Howard Kveck
So lazy, you. And what happens when I do?
_________________
What Griffin fails to note, however, is that ACORN made very clear that some
registrations they gathered from canvassers in Lake County may have been faulty. An
ACORN spokesmen explained this in an October 7 press release:
"ACORN flags and turns in three kinds of cards, those that it can verify, those
that are incomplete, and those that it flags as problematic. It turns those in
labeled in a special way and are very conservative in terms of what it flags as
problematic. It has stacks of problematic cover sheets. [...]"
The Lake County Board knew about the questionable registrations today because ACORN
flagged them for the board. For example, the Jimmy John's card is one that a caller
had flagged and labeled as problematic. ACORN can get that caller to talk to the
press.
According to Regina Harris, the Director of Registrations for Lake County, this claim
checks out. "It's certainly true. They did have three batches separated." she told me
this morning. "There was a pile they knew were good, there was some they said had
missing info -- like no voter ID number or a missing birthday -- and another batch
they called 'suspicious.' "
Why would ACORN submit registration forms it had deemed "suspicious"? Because under
most state laws, voter registration organizations are required to turn in all the
forms they receive. In a phone conversation today, ACORN press coordinator Charles
Jackson confirmed that this is the case in Indiana.
So what explains all the faulty registration forms? There are two probable causes.
One is that some registration forms can contain simple errors. That means the
registrant didn't intend to subvert the election process, but rather just made an
honest mistake.
The other scenario involves the canvassers themselves. If employees want to boost
their performance in the eyes of their boss or simply don't want to do the work of
finding legitimate new voters, they could turn in forged or faulty registration
forms. This is illegal and can wreak havoc on registrar's offices, but there's no
evidence these imaginary people turn around and vote in November. Given Indiana's
strict voter ID law, it would actually be next to impossible for anyone to cast a
ballot under the name of a submarine sandwich chain or a dead person.
_________________
http://progressillinois.com/2008/10/10/vilifying-acorn-without-facts
That was easy.
And if you believe so strongly that "voter fraud" (not *registration* fraud) is
taking place then you can search out the examples of people getting in trouble for
fraudulent voting, right?
You know, the case of the US Attorneys that got canned a while back was about
voter fraud - the DOJ, driven by Gonzalez, were telling the USAs to prosecute voter
fraud, but the USAs couldn't find any to prosecute.
Howard Kveck
Fred Fredburger <Fred.Fr...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
Thanks, FF.
Howard Kveck
fred....@yahoo.com wrote:
> > fred.gar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Not blaming anything on the minorities, only those who pander to them
> but never actually help them.
Well, it comes across as blaming the minorities, and that has been much more
explicitly stated in many mainstream right leaning sources. There's several problems
with it, besides the ones that I presented in my last post. First thing to be aware
of is that people in this country are essentially raised to know that banks are to be
trusted. So when a lower income person sees everyone else buying a home, they want to
be part of that too. So they go to the mortgage broker and he shows them papers that
say they can qualify and that their down will be low (or zero) and the initial
payments will also be affordable. Many times, those brokers told them to fudge info
because that'd make it get approved more easily. The main thing is that people were
told they'd be able to afford it and, since it's they're dealing with a bank, they
trusted that info. Well, down the road the intererest rates adjusted and balloon
payments came due and people couldn't make the payments. Now, you don't actually
think that people went into that with the express idea of defaulting on the loan, do
you? Many people who got into the crazy adjustable rate loans that were aimed for the
sketchiest borrowers actually qualified for more straightforward (fixed rate) loans
but the brokers got a bigger commission on the other loan. Of course brokers want
more commissions.
A bigger part of the home loans in default are actually not in the "subprime"
market - it's more middle of the road people who bought more house than they needed
(the "McMansions"). Many of those people also jacked up their payments by doing HELOC
crap far beyond what they should have.
The programs to help lower income people get into home ownership are fine, but the
deregulation of the banking industry (thank Phil Gramm for much of that) made it so
that brokers didn't have enough oversight to keep them in line. The regulations and
oversight that were there before should have been enough to stop this stuff.
Gunner
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
>>
>> What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
>> same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
>>
>> Fred
>
>And McCain was a poor Naval Officer and aviator who said he 'found
>religion' after Hanoi but was a self described 'wild man' after he
>returned. He set new records for womanizing and drinking..in spite of
>his wife, who was hurt in a car crash and could barley walk. John was
>living the high life in DC. Just the guy we want running things.
Oh...just like JFK and Teddy Kennedy?
Gunner
Cliff
How were their many wives?
Did their wives support them?
Is yours still on welfare?
>Gunner
It's so good for you to have new heroes !!!
Tell us about conservative values again.
All the kids preggers & with VD or somesuch, was it?
In debt you cannot pay for up to your eyebrows?
Or are they just about lying as much as you can?
--
Cliff
Cliff
>On Oct 11, 1:45 pm, Boater <say-w...@esad.org> wrote:
>> Cliff wrote:
>> > "The Candidates as Trains"
>> > http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
>>
>> That's just...hilarious.
>>
>> Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
>
>Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
>Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
>Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
>himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
>with his hands in the cookie jar. Wait, no... that won't happen.
>He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
>messiah.
>
>What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
>same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
>
>Fred
Is Fred trying to get in the running with gummer for an award?
--
Cliff
Cliff
>"Cliff" <Clhu...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:0vo3f4pqn4t7s91db...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:10:20 -0700 (PDT), "P.Chisholm"
>> <pe...@vecchios.com>
>
>>
>> Both he & herr shrubbie are/were justly famed party animals
>> as well as academic failures.
>> Why don't we elect some engineers, scientists & mathematicians?
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>Like Herbert Hoover?
The Republican?
Who was left the economy produced by John Calvin Coolidge
(another repub?)
--
Cliff
Cliff
[
"See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over
again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."
]
http://www.yuricareport.com/Iraq/SenEdwardKennedyonIraq.html
[
The decision on Iraq could have been announced earlier. Why time it for
September? As White House Chief of Staff Andy Card explained on September 7th:
"From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August."
]
Find those "WMDs" yet, Fred?
--
Cliff
Bill C
<Fred.Fredbur...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
> From this stream of uncritical acceptance of McCain talking points, I
> can only conclude that you are attempting to prove JT correct in his
> characterizations of you.
>
> Point made.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How are those not valid issues connected with Obama? Isn't it amazing
that all we hear about from a bunch of the folks is Republican thugs,
and vote fraud?
Questions about McCain and the Keating 5 are perfectly valid and
should be brought up, as should the connections of his people to
Fannie and Freddie, why is it wrong to do the same for Obama?
Let's discuss the history of voter fraud by the Chicago Machine,
especially since they long bragged THEY elected JFK from their
cemetaries. Is Obama a product of that system?
Let's see, fraudulent registrations, blocking every attempt at laws
requiring picture ID to vote, and then since you don't need picture
ID, or better yet fingerprint, which they do here in Mass. for
firearms background checks, it's pretty easy for them to orchestrate
massive vote fraud isn't it?
As the saying goes "Vote Early, Vote Often!".
Bill C
John Forrest Tomlinson
<trito...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Let's discuss the history of voter fraud by the Chicago Machine,
>especially since they long bragged THEY elected JFK from their
>cemetaries. Is Obama a product of that system?
Bill, if you're raising the standard Republican talking points as a
poltiical argument, I'm not going to bite because (despite what you
think) I don't enjoy arguing politics with you. But I'm sure someone
will.
If you're raising them to prove how independent you are, well, it's
not working.
Could you please throw in something about antiwar protesters in
Vietnam and the PC "free-speech zones" on the Amherst College campus
as reasons to question Obama and then we'll have a right-wing trifecta
in play
LOL.
Cliff
> "The Candidates as Trains"
> http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
Kurgan Gringioni
>
> Blind JT,
<snip>
Partisan Moron -
It's ironic and funny that you would call someone else blind.
Fannie and Freddie were part of the problem, but those two entities
were not/are not capable of causing a global financial crisis no
matter what they did.
The root problem is the enabling of the asset deficient credit default
swaps. Credit Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan. I will expound if you
wish to offer one of your shallow partisan protestations.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
SLAVE of THE STATE
> Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for the
> current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not racist much,
> are y'all?):
Oh, shut the fuck up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
idiot.
The root of these wide-spread problems is the federal reserve (central
banking) and the banking laws. The Fed needs to be abolished, along
with a complete revision of law regarding reserve requirements and
clear disclosure of terms on deposits. (Just noting the first basics.)
If you're worring about inadequate regulation, and honesty in
advertising, maybe you could call out for abolishing the fed and
strict disclosure of fractional reserves in banking. And also insist
that guvmints did not allow banks to do what other firms are not
allowed to do: functionally operate as bankrupt while not announcing
or filing for bankruptcy. IOW, being allowed to suspend specie
payments. In fact, the guvmint promotes the bad behavior.
I could accept a _gradual_ phase out of the FED, but its gotta go.
The contemporary bogeyman of "insufficient credit" is complete
horseshit in the sense that cheap credit is at the base of the
liquidity and credit problems today. Sure, now the house of cards can
come tumbling down and there is only the bad "choice" of injecting
liquidity. And so they are "pushing on the string." And that is not
guaranteed to work, so the next step is massive fiscal policy because
the massive monetary policy will be limited. And yep, that is exactly
what is happening after we were told we needed this big bailout, sure
enough now there are calls for massive fiscal policy in addition. It
is the standard bogus (keynesian) econ doctine. It is so predictable.
If "you" are going to make the decision to have a cheap credit banking
system with an inflating central bank and fractional reserve banking,
you are going to have a boom-bust type of economy. No amount of
regulation is going to cure this in a complete way. Eliminating the
centralizing aspect and forcing full disclosures on deposits will
avoid the massive (wide-spread) boom-busts, although more local ones
would likely still happen.
You don't get rid of your problems by handing them over to guvmint,
unless you manage to saddle your neighbor instead.
I am a bit annoyed that guvmint policy incentivises me not to "hoard"
my cash, saving it to purchase a new clown car with full cash down.
Since the guvmint incentives to "not hoard" are strong, I use credit,
but invariably being uncertain of the value of money (to me) in this
guvmint distorted case, I overspend, buying an SUV instead of a clown
car. Then I cause too much global warming. Then I buy a 52'
flatscreen on credit. Then I buy a bigger house. All the stuff you
love is pure crank doctrine. No one is smart enough to pull the
levers on something so complex as what is vaguely called "the
economy." You are drinking koolaid if you listen to these frauds.
The best thing Obama or McCain could do to "lead" "us" out of the
crisis is to get the fuck out of the way. But they won't do it. The
dominant doctrine/ideology is statism and a cult of personality. "We
need a great leader in these tough times." It is so sad that a nation
founded upon individual strength, "every man his own king," and
fortitude has come to this weirdo euro-trash ideology. People left
that elite-infested shit-hole to come to the USA. Now euro-tardism
has itself crossed the ocean. RIP USA.
The USA has not lived up to its ideals. So it may just as well go
straight to where it is going.
Fred Fredburger
> On Oct 12, 5:21 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <Fred.Fredbur...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
>
>> From this stream of uncritical acceptance of McCain talking points, I
>> can only conclude that you are attempting to prove JT correct in his
>> characterizations of you.
>>
>> Point made.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> How are those not valid issues connected with Obama? Isn't it amazing
> that all we hear about from a bunch of the folks is Republican thugs,
> and vote fraud?
Unquestioning acceptance of Republican talking points destroys your
ability to claim independence. So stop. You're as independent as Sarah
Palin.
Bill C
Who's unquestioningly accepting them? Seems that raising these
questions is not allowed, but how about this one?:
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/oct/12/obamas-kenya-ghosts/print/
Sunday, October 12, 2008
HYMAN: Obama's Kenya ghosts
Mark Hyman
COMMENTARY:
About 50 parishioners were locked into the Assemblies of God church
before it was set ablaze. They were mostly women and children. Those
who tried to flee were hacked to death by machete-wielding members of
a mob numbering 2,000.
The 2008 New Year Day atrocity in the Kenyan village Eldoret, about
185 miles northwest of Nairobi, had all the markings of the Rwanda
genocide of a decade earlier.
<<snipped>>
This was not Mr. Odinga's first brush with notoriety. Like his father,
Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, the main opposition leader in the 1960s and
1970s, Raila Odinga is a Marxist He graduated from East Germany's
Magdeburg University in 1970 on a scholarship provided by the East
German government. He named his oldest son after Fidel Castro.
Raila Odinga was implicated in the bloody coup attempt in 1982 against
then-President Daniel Arap Moi, a close ally of the United States.
Kenya has been one of the most stable democracies in Africa since the
1960s. The ethnic cleansing earlier this year was the worst violence
in Kenya since that 1982 coup attempt.
Mr. Odinga spent eight years in prison. At the time, he denied guilt
but later detailed he was a coup leader in his 2006 biography. Statue
of limitations precluded further prosecution when the biography
appeared.
Initially, Mr. Odinga was not the favored opposition candidate to
stand in the 2007 election against President Mwai Kibaki, who was
seeking his second term. However, he received a tremendous boost when
Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Kenya in August 2006 to campaign on his
behalf. Mr. Obama denies that supporting Mr. Odinga was the intention
of his trip, but his actions and local media reports tell otherwise.
Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama were nearly inseparable throughout Mr.
Obama's six-day stay. The two traveled together throughout Kenya and
Mr. Obama spoke on behalf of Mr. Odinga at numerous rallies. In
contrast, Mr. Obama had only criticism for Kibaki. He lashed out
against the Kenyan government shortly after meeting with the president
on Aug. 25. "The [Kenyan] people have to suffer over corruption
perpetrated by government officials," Mr. Obama announced.
"Kenyans are now yearning for change," he declared. The intent of Mr.
Obama's remarks and actions was transparent to Kenyans - he was firmly
behind Mr. Odinga.
More there, or can't these things be questioned?
Bill C
Fred Fredburger
> On Oct 13, 7:28 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <Fred.Fredbur...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>>> On Oct 12, 5:21 pm, Fred Fredburger
>>> <Fred.Fredbur...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
>>>> From this stream of uncritical acceptance of McCain talking points, I
>>>> can only conclude that you are attempting to prove JT correct in his
>>>> characterizations of you.
>>>> Point made.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> How are those not valid issues connected with Obama? Isn't it amazing
>>> that all we hear about from a bunch of the folks is Republican thugs,
>>> and vote fraud?
>> Unquestioning acceptance of Republican talking points destroys your
>> ability to claim independence. So stop. You're as independent as Sarah
>> Palin.
>
> Who's unquestioningly accepting them? Seems that raising these
> questions is not allowed, but how about this one?:
You misunderstand. I'm not arguing with you. JT already did that. I'm
just telling you that JT won.
Bill C
<Fred.Fredbur...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
> You misunderstand. I'm not arguing with you. JT already did that. I'm
> just telling you that JT won.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's your judgement. Where, on facts, did JT, win? Just curious.
Bill C
Howard Kveck
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 6:16 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for
> > the current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not
> > racist much, are y'all?):
>
> Oh, shut the fuck up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
> idiot.
Greg, what do you consider "idiot-talk," the part about right wing cretins trying
to blame it on minorities? Because that can be found with the quickness - the Great
Gazoogle works wonders. Or are you going to berate for not buying into your
one-size-fits-all "gubmint bad, smash gubmint" routine?
Reading on, yeah. Look at the bigger picture. RL, UM.
'Ow bow dat Krugman?
SLAVE of THE STATE
> Greg, what do you consider "idiot-talk," the part about right wing cretins trying
to blame it on minorities?
It certainly would be idiot talk if the blame has to do with being in
a "minority group." I suspect you are far too quick to throw that
card onto the table. You can always find a nut.
It would not be idiot talk if some bad loans were due to guvmint
policy coercing loans to individuals that were prima-facie bad risks.
If someone wants to say the individuals that were poor risk were
defined by that same someone to be in "minority groups," then I say
they should not even say that (and leftists do say that; in fact, they
make the definition). A bad risk is a bad risk. Period. Coercion
forcing loans to poor risks is "bad practice." So are uncoerced bad
risk loans that a later backed by coercive acts.
> 'Ow bow dat Krugman?
Hey, he proved Samuelson wrong, therefore, he can't be all bad. I
told you I have three of his books. (I like his little essay
collection book "the accidental theorist" the best, of those I have.)
In fact, I give a fair amount of partial credit to Krugman for turning
me against being a democrat, or voting that way. So in a sense, I
very much appreciate Dr. Krugman. Seriously though, note what he got
it for -- that is pretty good stuff. That is the only groundbreaking
work he did, that I know of. And I be checking to see if there is
prior art. Then see JFT howl. It was always thought he might well
win it someday, and there you go...
Arnold Kling on Krooooogman's win:
_Not as Bad as You Thought, Why Paul Krugman deserved the Nobel Prize_
"Paul Krugman received a Nobel Prize for his contributions to
international trade theory. Even for those of us who disagree with his
political views and see little value in his recent work as a
columnist, this award brings neither surprise nor disappointment."
http://www.reason.com/news/show/129435.html
Off-note:
Here's a book review of one of your favorite crank's books, including
a little video:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/128903.html
Note that Krugman never sez the ridiculous things about Friedman that
Klein Bottle sez. I bought Klein's book on your recommendation. You
jerk. What a waste of money. THe most I think Krugman said was
Friedman was "willing to cut a few corners in an argument."
Republicans with bongs?
http://all-left.net/
Kurgan Gringioni
> On Oct 11, 6:16 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for the
> > current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not racist much,
> > are y'all?):
>
> Oh, shut the fuck up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
> idiot.
>
> banking) and the banking laws. The Fed needs to be abolished, along
> with a complete revision of law regarding reserve requirements and
> clear disclosure of terms on deposits. (Just noting the first basics.)
<snip>
Dumbass -
The root problem is abolishing regulation, an act which gave rise to
the widespread trading of credit default swaps. The credit default
swaps which became commonly traded between banks were sufficiently
complicated and opaque that the buyers (and, apparently, the sellers)
of the securitized "baskets" of subprime loans were convinced that the
risk was sufficiently spread around the banking system so that they
were a safe investment. Over time, a gigantic house of cards was
erected as the housing bubble grew larger than the ability of the
financial system as a whole to withstand a bursting of the bubble and
it's ability to meet its obligations on the defaults.
George Soros didn't trade in credit default swaps because he said he
didn't understand them. Warren Buffet called them "financial weapons
of mass destruction". Alas, as usual, Buffet was right.
When it comes to greed, Wall Street is not capable of self regulation.
We need small government, but we need the right set of rules too. Less
regulation is not always better.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Howard Kveck
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> Howard Kveck wrote:
>
> > Greg, what do you consider "idiot-talk," the part about right wing cretins
> > trying to blame it on minorities?
>
> It certainly would be idiot talk if the blame has to do with being in
> a "minority group." I suspect you are far too quick to throw that
> card onto the table. You can always find a nut.
>
> It would not be idiot talk if some bad loans were due to guvmint
> policy coercing loans to individuals that were prima-facie bad risks.
> If someone wants to say the individuals that were poor risk were
> defined by that same someone to be in "minority groups," then I say
> they should not even say that (and leftists do say that; in fact, they
> make the definition). A bad risk is a bad risk. Period. Coercion
> forcing loans to poor risks is "bad practice." So are uncoerced bad
> risk loans that a later backed by coercive acts.
I'm not sure how that addresses what I was saying. Right wingers are explicitily
saying that programs like CRA and others are responsible for getting loans into the
hands of people who were high risks and then didn't pay them off. That is not backed
up by the facts. Even banks aren't blaming CRA for the problems. Here's a fairly good
and simple explanation:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_crisis
The Wall Street Journal reported in 2006 that 61% of all borrowers receiving
subprime loans had credit scores high enough to qualify for prime conventional loans.
I'll have more on this later.
> Republicans with bongs?
> http://all-left.net/
Is there an organization for the Libertarian Right? Because sure as the Lib Left
exist, so do the Lib Right.
Howard Kveck
Howard Kveck <YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure how that addresses what I was saying. Right wingers are
> explicitily saying that programs like CRA and others are responsible for getting
> loans into the hands of people who were high risks and then didn't pay them
> off. That is not backed up by the facts. Even banks aren't blaming CRA for the
> problems. Here's a fairly good and simple explanation:
>
> http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_cr
> isis
>
> The Wall Street Journal reported in 2006 that 61% of all borrowers
> receiving subprime loans had credit scores high enough to qualify for prime
> conventional loans.
I forgot this link (it's a pdf):
<http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/traiger_hinckley_llp_cra_foreclosure_study_1-7
-08.pdf>
Donald Munro
> Note that Krugman never sez the ridiculous things about Friedman that
> Klein Bottle sez. I bought Klein's book on your recommendation. You jerk.
> What a waste of money.
You should have bought a frame pump on credit.
Donald Munro
> You misunderstand. I'm not arguing with you. JT already did that. I'm just
> telling you that JT won.
Nonsense. Fogel-bot won, even though he didn't post. He always wins
because no other bot can generate the positively Baileyesque quantity of
dump and drivel he does.
SchwartzSoft have fallen behind in the battle of the bots.
Donald Munro
> When it comes to greed, Wall Street is not capable of self regulation. We
> need small government, but we need the right set of rules too. Less
> regulation is not always better.
The only problem with regulation is the people making the regulations
are rarely as smart as the ones trying to work around them.
Bill C
>
> George Soros didn't trade in credit default swaps because he said he
> didn't understand them. Warren Buffet called them "financial weapons
> of mass destruction". Alas, as usual, Buffet was right.
>
> When it comes to greed, Wall Street is not capable of self regulation.
> We need small government, but we need the right set of rules too. Less
> regulation is not always better.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
Damn I'm gonna have to invest in a fan club membership. Wish we could
get more of the clear headed, rational, objective reasoning you have
been consistently displaying lately from the clowns running for office
and their supporters, but I think Donald has that covered too.
Bill C
William R. Mattil
>
> More there, or can't these things be questioned?
>
Never ...... These Fruit Loops have all tasted the Kool Aid and will
follow the anointed one forever.
I like to think of it as "Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show"
Bill - the other one
SLAVE of THE STATE
> In article <YOURhoward-40FD4F.00175814102...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure how that addresses what I was saying. Right wingers are
> > explicitily saying that programs like CRA and others are responsible for getting
> > loans into the hands of people who were high risks and then didn't pay them
> > off. That is not backed up by the facts. Even banks aren't blaming CRA for the
> > problems. Here's a fairly good and simple explanation:
>
> > isis
>
> > The Wall Street Journal reported in 2006 that 61% of all borrowers
> > receiving subprime loans had credit scores high enough to qualify for prime
> > conventional loans.
>
> I forgot this link (it's a pdf):
>
> -08.pdf>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3rkftb
Search either of the documents you linked for *minorities/minority*.
You threw in the idiot card.
Gordon references DiLorenzo, so here is a DiLorenzo article:
http://mises.org/story/2963
In any case, and however you judge the causes of the crisis, it isn't
about "minorities." You made that crap up.
SLAVE of THE STATE
Since I have actually read some stuff Friedman has written, I was in a
position to be able to critique claims of Klein Bottle without undue
effort. So that was why I was willing to go there where the prima
facie evidence otherwise said it was pure junk. (I almost never read
that kind of crap.) She'z disreputable, that is for sure. At the
NYT, Krugman has only risen to shill status; that is a lot more
respectable, as respectability is sacrificed in quest of The Ideology
of Wishful Thinking.
A frame pump and a ride are better than rbr any day, except maybe
during winter rains. I insist that I will learn! I need to
demonstrate behavior that will improve my credit.
SLAVE of THE STATE
> 'Ow bow dat Krugman?
And another:
<http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/10/13/krugman-nobel-economics-
oped-cx_pb_1013boettke.html>
Prior art excerpt:
"In addition to Krugman's scientific contributions in first-best trade
theory, he also re-established the field of economic geography and
location analysis in discussions of trade, growth and development. At
one level, his work on economic geography followed naturally from his
increasing-returns perspective, and focused attention on industrial
clustering in development. But Krugman's claim to originality in this
field is very muted, as he himself has admitted on numerous occasions.
Instead, Krugman is credited with bringing professional attention back
to an earlier literature that in fact had been forgotten in the
striving for precise equilibrium models.
To put this very simply, the formal tools used by economists for most
of the 20th century required smooth and continuous functions that are
twice differentiable. Lumpy and discrete phenomena defy such
representation, and it is arguably the lumpy and discrete things in
our world that make the economic world worthy of study--and provide
alternative arguments about the power of markets and the problems of
politics that are missed in the formal exercises of economic theory.
They are not missed, however, in the "appreciative theory" exercises
we employ in our classrooms and lunchroom conversations, and are
evident in the literary economics of classical political economists
such as Adam Smith or modern political economists such as F. A. Hayek
and James Buchanan.
But Krugman's rediscovery of economic geography did not focus our
efforts on the broader points of political economy. Instead, it sought
to provide novel ways to translate some aspects of the broader
argument into the formalistic exercise of standard economics. Krugman,
in fact, saw his role as a sort of economic theorist middleman, who
was able to buy low the ideas of economic geographers and sell them at
a higher price to modern economic theorists of trade and development."
SLAVE of THE STATE
> On Oct 13, 11:29 am, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
>
> > The root of these wide-spread problems is the federal reserve (central
> > banking) and the banking laws. The Fed needs to be abolished, along
> > with a complete revision of law regarding reserve requirements and
> > clear disclosure of terms on deposits. (Just noting the first basics.)
>
> the widespread trading of credit default swaps. The credit default
> swaps which became commonly traded between banks were sufficiently
> complicated and opaque that the buyers (and, apparently, the sellers)
> of the securitized "baskets" of subprime loans were convinced that the
> risk was sufficiently spread around the banking system so that they
> were a safe investment. Over time, a gigantic house of cards was
> erected as the housing bubble grew larger than the ability of the
> financial system as a whole to withstand a bursting of the bubble and
> it's ability to meet its obligations on the defaults.
>
> George Soros didn't trade in credit default swaps because he said he
> didn't understand them. Warren Buffet called them "financial weapons
> of mass destruction". Alas, as usual, Buffet was right.
>
> When it comes to greed, Wall Street is not capable of self regulation.
> We need small government, but we need the right set of rules too. Less
> regulation is not always better.
Perhaps you've focused too much contemporary folly. I said the fed
needed to go away, not all and any law affecting disclosure regarding
transactions.
I guarantee you that if there was widespread perception of "wall
street" that "it" was unreliable/dishonest, and other options were not
wiped away by guvmint interference (for example, like "hoarding"
cash), then "wall street" would in fact self-regulate if "it" wanted
investment and investment/"other stuff" swaps.
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to
fill the world with fools."--Herbert Spencer
_The Rhyme of History_, corrigan, 3-20-2000
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/corrigan2.html
Fred Fredburger
You won it for him. Your own posts in this thread supply all the facts
he'd ever need.
Let's try this: If I said all cyclists are dopers and used Tyler, Vino,
Rasmussen et. al. as proof, would you notice a flaw in that reasoning?
How about if I claimed, as some do that Palin is a terrorist who hates
America. Supporting evidence would be her involvement with the Alaska
Independence Party and the history of that group.
Do either of those stimulate your internal BS detector at all?
How about Gwen Ifill, she did a pretty awful hatchet job on Palin,
didn't she?
The ACORN stuff is a tempest in a teapot. They're being criticized for
complying with the law by turning in ALL registrations received, for
crying out loud. Voter registration drives always piss people off,
there's nothing new here. Locally, Democrats have bitched for years
about Republican efforts to drive people to the polls and provide
babysitters on voting day. It's analogous to stuffing the ballot box,
they say. Grow the fuck up, I say.
It's all just a bunch of crap to give people a reason to feel like the
victim of the other guy so they'll go vote against them. Swiftboat tactics.
Republican swiftboat tactics work on you every time. Read your own posts
in this thread for proof. Half this crap only makes sense if you start
from the assumption that Obama (Kerry, Gore) is nothing but PURE EVIL!
I just wasted 5 minutes of my life. Ah, well, I wasn't doing anything
with it anyway.
Kurgan Gringioni
<snip>
Dumbass -
The Fed didn't cause this crisis.
They didn't prevent it, but they didn't cause it either.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
SLAVE of THE STATE
Oh, they helped all right. The FED is at the root. DEmocrats and
republicans are now statists/corporatists, so every problem is "lack
of oversight" & "market failure." Of course, that is so easy: "we
just didn't control things enough, we need to pass another law." You
knuckleheads will never learn. Get ready for more of the same and
diminishing prosperity.
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
The problem isn't a law they added. It's one they took away. Phil
Gramm, in 2000, slipped the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act"
into an appropriations bill. The CFMA enabled the credit default swaps
which are at the root of the housing bubble. There was absolutely no
government oversight of the credit default swaps. Basically, what Wall
Street did was completely legal.
It shouldn't be. They keep their bonuses and leave the global
financial system in a big, big mess. The deriviatives (credit default
swaps) were not underpinned by assets. They were basically selling
insurance with no assets to back up the policies if they went bad
(that's the simplified version). None of this would have happened if
Gramm hadn't engaged in his legistlative sleight of hand.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
John Forrest Tomlinson
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Dumbass -
>
>
>The problem isn't a law they added. It's one they took away. Phil
>Gramm, in 2000, slipped the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act"
>into an appropriations bill. The CFMA enabled the credit default swaps
>which are at the root of the housing bubble. There was absolutely no
>government oversight of the credit default swaps. Basically, what Wall
>Street did was completely legal.
Dumbass
SotS is like a kid who latched onto one idea in 10th grade social
studies and thinks it explains everything. He won't change.
Fred Fredburger
Dumbass
No kid ever latched onto any idea in 10th grade social studies. At least
not in a PUBLIC school.
bjwe...@gmail.com
Dumbass,
Not public school with fiat homeworks and a central-bank
system of report cards, but free-market school with
class assignments distributed by auction bidding.
Hate word problems? Bid to solve a geometry proof instead!
You know how normal people send their kids to Montessori
kindergarten and they come back as vegan hippies who
grow up to move to Portland and support themselves by
knitting earflap hats for the fixed-gear cycling community?
Greg's parents are mainstream, but they sent him to Ayn Rand
kindergarten.
Ben
It could be worse - I went to
Ingmar Bergman kindergarten.
Fred Fredburger
Back in 1975, homework default swaps led to a meltdown in standardized
test scores at my school. But that was before it was renamed from Milton
Friedman Middle School to Vive La Revolucion Jr. High.
Kurgan Gringioni
wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:46:17 -0700 (PDT), Kurgan Gringioni
>
> >Dumbass -
>
> >The problem isn't a law they added. It's one they took away. Phil
> >Gramm, in 2000, slipped the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act"
> >into an appropriations bill. The CFMA enabled the credit default swaps
> >which are at the root of the housing bubble. There was absolutely no
> >government oversight of the credit default swaps. Basically, what Wall
> >Street did was completely legal.
>
> Dumbass
>
> SotS is like a kid who latched onto one idea in 10th grade social
> studies and thinks it explains everything. He won't change.
Dumbass -
thanks for the heads-up. It'll save me some time.
cheers,
K. Gringioni.
Howard Kveck
"b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
And I thought I had it bad at Tierra del Fuego High.
> It could be worse - I went to
> Ingmar Bergman kindergarten.
When you're out of slits, you're out of pier...
Howard Kveck
Kurgan Gringioni <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > The Fed didn't cause this crisis.
> >
> > > They didn't prevent it, but they didn't cause it either.
> > Oh, they helped all right. The FED is at the root. DEmocrats and
> > republicans are now statists/corporatists, so every problem is "lack
> > of oversight" & "market failure." Of course, that is so easy: "we
> > just didn't control things enough, we need to pass another law." You
> > knuckleheads will never learn. Get ready for more of the same and
> > diminishing prosperity.
> The problem isn't a law they added. It's one they took away. Phil
> Gramm, in 2000, slipped the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act"
> into an appropriations bill. The CFMA enabled the credit default swaps
> which are at the root of the housing bubble. There was absolutely no
> government oversight of the credit default swaps. Basically, what Wall
> Street did was completely legal.
>
> It shouldn't be. They keep their bonuses and leave the global
> financial system in a big, big mess. The deriviatives (credit default
> swaps) were not underpinned by assets. They were basically selling
> insurance with no assets to back up the policies if they went bad
> (that's the simplified version). None of this would have happened if
> Gramm hadn't engaged in his legistlative sleight of hand.
See also: the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed the Glass-Steagall
Act. The Glass-Steagall Act prohibited the mixing of commercial and investment
banking.
______________________
"The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as Citigroup, the largest U.S. bank by
assets, to underwrite and trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and
collateralized debt obligations and establish so-called structured investment
vehicles, or SIVs, that bought those securities. [12] Citigroup played a major part
in the repeal. Then called Citicorp, the company merged with Travelers Insurance
company the year before using loopholes in Glass-Steagall that allowed for temporary
exemptions. With lobbying led by Roger Levy, the "finance, insurance and real estate
industries together are regularly the largest campaign contributors and biggest
spenders on lobbying of all business sectors [in 1999]. They laid out more than $200
million for lobbying in 1998, according to the Center for Responsive Politics..."
These industries succeeded in their two decades long effort to repeal the act."
______________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Steagall_Act
Gunner
<Fred.Fr...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
>fred....@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 1:45 pm, Boater <say-w...@esad.org> wrote:
>>> Cliff wrote:
>>>> "The Candidates as Trains"
>>>> http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/electiontrains.jpg
>>> That's just...hilarious.
>>>
>>> Delightfully, I believe Palin's problems in Alaska are just beginning.
>>
>> Maybe, but if not for the democrats blocking any investigation into
>> Freddie and Fannie until after the election, you'd see most of
>> Nobama's financial advisors being forced to resign in shame AND Nobama
>> himself dropping out of the race due to the humilation of being caught
>> with his hands in the cookie jar. Wait, no... that won't happen.
>> He's drunk the koolaid himself, and actually believes he's the
>> messiah.
>>
>> What he is, is a thinly-veiled socialist who believes in telling the
>> same lie over and over until its accepted as true.
>
>You left out the part about eating babies.
He eats babies? The socialist part is well proven, so how about a
cite to the eating baby thingy?
Howard Kveck
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> On Oct 14, 12:32 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > In article <YOURhoward-40FD4F.00175814102...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> > Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure how that addresses what I was saying. Right wingers are
> > > explicitily saying that programs like CRA and others are responsible for
> > > getting loans into the hands of people who were high risks and then
> > > didn't pay them off. That is not backed up by the facts. Even banks
> > > aren't blaming CRA for the problems. Here's a fairly good and simple
> > > explanation:
> >
> > >http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_su...
> > > isis
> >
> > > The Wall Street Journal reported in 2006 that 61% of all borrowers
> > > receiving subprime loans had credit scores high enough to qualify for
> > > prime conventional loans.
> >
> > I forgot this link (it's a pdf):
> >
> > <http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/traiger_hinckley_llp_cra_forec...
> > -08.pdf>
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/3rkftb
>
> Search either of the documents you linked for *minorities/minority*.
> You threw in the idiot card.
Whether you can recognize it or not, those articles were backing up what I've
said, so the likleyhood they'd say wither of those words is small. Besides, even the
people who are pushing that line are unlikely to use those words either.
> Gordon references DiLorenzo, so here is a DiLorenzo article:
> http://mises.org/story/2963
His premise is fucked up by the third graf:
"Gordon is a defender of the federal government's 1977 Community Reinvestment Act
(CRA) under which the Fed and other financial regulators have pressured/extorted
banks into making more loans to less-than-creditworthy borrowers than they would
normally be willing to risk."
Regulators didn't "pressure" banks into making loans to those people. And as I've
pointed out several times (and you just ignore, likely because it doesn't fi your
ideology), the overwhelming majority of those allegedly "less-than-creditworthy"
borrowers who got loans via CRA are doing fine. Gordon shoots holes in the argument:
__________________
"Second, it is hard to blame CRA for the mortgage meltdown when CRA doesn't even
apply to most of the loans that are behind it. As the University of Michigan's
Michael Barr points out, half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies
beyond the reach of CRA. A further 25 to 30 percent came from bank subsidiaries and
affiliates, which come under CRA to varying degrees but not as fully as banks
themselves. (With affiliates, banks can choose whether to count the loans.) Perhaps
one in four sub-prime loans were made by the institutions fully governed by CRA."
__________________
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_crisis
Yeah, that is the article that DiLorenzo is tryingh to refute. I think Gordon is
correct.
> In any case, and however you judge the causes of the crisis, it isn't
> about "minorities." You made that crap up.
No, Greg, *I* didn't make that crap up - right wingers made it up. I'm just
telling you what they're saying. Go to Investor's Business Daily's oped pages, the
World's Shittiest Site (the Corner) or any number of right leaning sites. They start
in with saying that loans weren't made based on people's ability to pay but their
ethnicity or status (and that was by force). You may not see that as relating to
"minorities" but it is. It's called "dog whistle politics." You may not (want to) see
it but the people it's aimed at do see it: the right wing bloggers like Malkin and
her Hot Air clowns, Pajamas Media and a jillion others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEnqC1uPu0
Donald Munro
> No kid ever latched onto any idea in 10th grade social studies. At least
> not in a PUBLIC school.
What, you never learned about technical virginity ?
Donald Munro
Kurgan Gringioni
Dumbass -
My family has been in the real estate business since 1970, but I've
been in the dark about what caused the housing bubble as anyone else
until recently.
Way back in 2003 I knew that California had a bubble going for the
simple fact that 20%+ gains in values cannot be sustained for long if
incomes are only going up 5%. Still, the market kept going up and up
and up, piling on. I was flabbergasted. It didn't seem right. Where
was the money coming from? I finally concluded that money from China
(excess dollars from their huge trade surplus with us) was coming back
across the Pacific in an amateur-ish way to invest their money.
It was a bad guess. I was totally wrong. The mistake was making the
assumption that there was no way Americans could be so stupid as to
make those loans for overpriced real estate. The culprit was the
credit default swaps. They enabled the stupidity. The investment
houses on Wall Street felt comfortable with the credit default swaps
as insurance even though the CDS's were not backed up by real assets.
"Burst!" went the housing bubble and the US financial system along
with it. Fucking idiots. They're supposed to be experts.
In a way, I guess some of the top guys are "experts". The CEO of
Lehman Bros. made $350 million in bonuses the last 5 years. Those Wall
Street Top Dogs did a legal Ponzi scheme on us (thanks Phil Gramm) and
they get the last laugh. They get to keep their bonus money even
though they ruined the investors' portfolio's (see average Joe's 401k
who had shares in those companies) along with our financial system.
We're now selling off pieces of it to foreign investors (for instance,
Mitsubishi is buying Morgan Stanley).
What a fucking disaster.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Bill C
<Fred.Fredbur...@Where.Are.The.Nachos.Huh> wrote:
>
> You won it for him. Your own posts in this thread supply all the facts
> he'd ever need.
>
> Let's try this: If I said all cyclists are dopers and used Tyler, Vino,
> Rasmussen et. al. as proof, would you notice a flaw in that reasoning?
>
Nope, but when they are linked to Ferrari, Oil for Drugs, etc...then
I have some questions about them.
> How about if I claimed, as some do that Palin is a terrorist who hates
> America. Supporting evidence would be her involvement with the Alaska
> Independence Party and the history of that group.
>
I want to know what they believe, what actions they've taken, etc...
> Do either of those stimulate your internal BS detector at all?
>
They make me ask questions.
> How about Gwen Ifill, she did a pretty awful hatchet job on Palin,
> didn't she?
>
I already covered that, and said that She did a really good job with
the debate. That's not a given by any stretch of the imagination.
> The ACORN stuff is a tempest in a teapot. They're being criticized for
> complying with the law by turning in ALL registrations received, for
> crying out loud. Voter registration drives always piss people off,
> there's nothing new here. Locally, Democrats have bitched for years
> about Republican efforts to drive people to the polls and provide
> babysitters on voting day. It's analogous to stuffing the ballot box,
> they say. Grow the fuck up, I say.
>
If activists, organizers, and get out the vote folks weren't also
fighting to block having to provide picture ID, or other positiver
identification, and if false documents weren't being generated for a
shitload of people, as we saw in the Agriprocessors mess, and we
hadn't had a history of voter fraud, then I'd agree with you.
Providing rides, babysitting, whatever, that allows legal votes is a
great thing, and more power to them.
Using Illegals as an example here because it's easy. There are 11
States that issue licenses to illegals. Combine that with voter
registration fraud, and even a picture ID does no good at preventing
vote fraud. Lots of other places have extremelty easy to work around
ID systems, showing a piece of mail with your name and address is good
enough ID to vote. Pretty easy to vote a few times with that. We don't
have a good comprehensive system of checking the rolls, and a shortage
of people to do it, along with people trying very hard to block
tightening the system up.
> It's all just a bunch of crap to give people a reason to feel like the
> victim of the other guy so they'll go vote against them. Swiftboat tactics.
>
> Republican swiftboat tactics work on you every time. Read your own posts
> in this thread for proof. Half this crap only makes sense if you start
> from the assumption that Obama (Kerry, Gore) is nothing but PURE EVIL!
>
Not that JT would believe it but here are local Democrats I do
support, and have voted for, and plenty I would support on a National
level: Stan Rosenberg, Peter V. Kocot, Dennis Gruyer, and there are
others locally, it depends on the individual, their positions and
voting records. Those folks have run against Republican candidates
here and I voted for them.
> I just wasted 5 minutes of my life. Ah, well, I wasn't doing anything
> with it anyway.
Not all talking points are garbage. Not all the Swifboat stuff was
garbage though 99% of it was. Kerry failed miserably to counteract it.
Go back and you'll see me blasting Kerry, but for his actions AFTER he
came back.
Not all of Air America, Maddow, Stewart, Moore, stuff etc...is wrong
by any means, and JT was absolutely correct that there is stuff they
bring up that noone else does, and important stuff, but like with
Drudge it's buried in a lot of other garbage.
Bill C
ST
YOURhoward-4B676...@newsgroups.comcast.net, "Howard Kveck"
<YOURh...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> In article
> <e3b8741a-99f1-44de...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 11, 6:16 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for
>>> the current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not
>>> racist much, are y'all?):
>>
>> Oh, shut the fuck up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
>> idiot.
>
> Greg, what do you consider "idiot-talk," the part about right wing cretins
> trying
> to blame it on minorities?
Dumb Howie,
This is why I am done with you east bloc assbags. (Bill C is getting his ass
beat by you jerks too! And he is one of the most open-minded rational people
I have ever read here)
UNTIL you jerks can tell me you are stupid enough to sign on to one of those
mortgages where you pay interest only for 2 years and then your payment
DOUBLES and you know your income will not THEN I will think you really
believe in you rhetoric.
UNTIL THEN.... I will continue to believe in that golden rule "personal
responsibility"
ST
d43f0340-65f4-4f93...@31g2000prz.googlegroups.com, "Kurgan
Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 13, 11:29 am, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 6:16 pm, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, but the facts get in the way of your attempt to lay the blame for
>>> the
>>> current economic crisis on blacks, hispanics and other minorities. (Not
>>> racist much,
>>> are y'all?):
>>
>> Oh, shut the fuck up with the idiot-talk. It makes you sound like an
>> idiot.
>>
>> The root of these wide-spread problems is the federal reserve (central
>> banking) and the banking laws. The Fed needs to be abolished, along
>> with a complete revision of law regarding reserve requirements and
>> clear disclosure of terms on deposits. (Just noting the first basics.)
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
>
> The root problem is abolishing regulation, an act which gave rise to
> the widespread trading of credit default swaps. The credit default
> swaps which became commonly traded between banks were sufficiently
> complicated and opaque that the buyers (and, apparently, the sellers)
> of the securitized "baskets" of subprime loans were convinced that the
> risk was sufficiently spread around the banking system so that they
> were a safe investment. Over time, a gigantic house of cards was
> erected as the housing bubble grew larger than the ability of the
> financial system as a whole to withstand a bursting of the bubble and
> it's ability to meet its obligations on the defaults.
>
> George Soros didn't trade in credit default swaps because he said he
> didn't understand them. Warren Buffet called them "financial weapons
> of mass destruction". Alas, as usual, Buffet was right.
>
> When it comes to greed, Wall Street is not capable of self regulation.
> We need small government, but we need the right set of rules too. Less
> regulation is not always better.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.
You really are a rich kid fuckin idiot!
I am still waiting for you to comment on you Coke dealing at UCSD?
I am still waiting to hear about you getting caught trying to put a virus on
the UCSD computer system?
SHOW us stupid folk the LACK of regulation? SHOW us stupid folk WHAT came
first?
The securities became a problem BECAUSE of sub-prime mortgages going bad and
not being paid when their "introductory" rates blew up!
Stainless,
Mommy & Daddy will always be disappointed in you!
SLAVE of THE STATE
Way to change the topic. Like I said, you got your lens in so close
you can't see the forest through the trees.
Oh well. You'll never learn and that is the way it will stay.
SLAVE of THE STATE
> SHOW us stupid folk WHAT came
> first?
The rigged big-banking backed Aldrich commission(s) came first. That
made creating the Fed a done deal. Not too long after came the great
depression, which persisted much longer than it would have because of
massive government (Hoover and FDR administrations) intervention.
These people are like heroin junkies. They don't complain about the
high times, it is just screeching when the dope runs out. They need
their cheap credit fix courtesy of the the taxpayers.
Party on Wayne.
Party on Garth.
These knuckleheads in rbr are the same as everywhere. They will never
learn. They have their simple 10th grade publik skool social studies
lesson: market bad, guvmint good.
SLAVE of THE STATE
> In article <a72288e0-0d54-4081-9dd4-982487811...@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 14, 12:32 am, Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
> > > In article <YOURhoward-40FD4F.00175814102...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> > > Howard Kveck <YOURhow...@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I'm not sure how that addresses what I was saying. Right wingers are
> > > > explicitily saying that programs like CRA and others are responsible for
> > > > getting loans into the hands of people who were high risks and then
> > > > didn't pay them off. That is not backed up by the facts. Even banks
> > > > aren't blaming CRA for the problems. Here's a fairly good and simple
> > > > explanation:
>
> > > >http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_su...
> > > > isis
>
> > > > The Wall Street Journal reported in 2006 that 61% of all borrowers
> > > > receiving subprime loans had credit scores high enough to qualify for
> > > > prime conventional loans.
>
> > > I forgot this link (it's a pdf):
>
> > > <http://www.traigerlaw.com/publications/traiger_hinckley_llp_cra_forec...
> > > -08.pdf>
>
> > >http://tinyurl.com/3rkftb
>
> > Search either of the documents you linked for *minorities/minority*.
> > You threw in the idiot card.
>
> Whether you can recognize it or not, those articles were backing up
No they don't. You are in denial. That won't change. That's good
cuz I know I can drop out.
Donald Munro
> learn. They have their simple 10th grade publik skool social studies
> lesson: market bad, guvmint good.
Sorry, missed that class. I was busy in the biology lab with
a technical virginity experiment.
John Forrest Tomlinson
<trito...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Not that JT would believe it but here
> are local Democrats I do
> support, and have voted for,
> and plenty I would support on a National
> level: Stan Rosenberg, Peter V. Kocot,
> Dennis Gruyer,
I don't believe you'd vote for them for president and here's why.
Given what you know now, sure you'd vote for them. But in a
presidential election the RNC would out all the bogeymen that work on
you against these people and you'd pay attention to those rumours and
distractions. You have again and again. And they'd probably work on
you even for those people.
Or to be more charitable *maybe* it's *possible* for you to vote for
such a person but the only way you'd ever do it if you were so
familiar with their record that you could see through the bogeyman.
That is, it'd take particularly strong personal information on your
part to overcome the "normal" mud slinging that works on you and
again. If that's what it takes to overcome obvious BS in the wake of
what you yourself have admitted has been a disastrous 8 years, then
yeah, you're a right-winger.
[quoting out of order]
> If activists, organizers, and get
> out the vote folks weren't also
> fighting to block having to provide
> picture ID, or other positiver
> identification,
Here's another bogeyman that works on Bill C: voter fraud.
In the Bush administration the Justice Department greatly expanded
attempts to find any significant or substantial voting fraud and as
far as I can tell they have had zero successful prosecutions. The fact
is, all the best evidence shows there isn't any voter fraud. None or
almost none.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-10-poll-fraud-report_x.htm
Politicians nowadays have better and safer things to spend money on to
affect elections, and if they want to do anything illegal or
quasi-illegal it's way easier to spend it on voter suppression (as the
phone-jamming case in New Hampshire is showing).
> [details of theoretical fraud snipped]
> Pretty easy
> to vote a few times with that. We don't
> have a good comprehensive system of checking
> the rolls, and a shortage
> of people to do it,
Oh yeah, "it hasn't been checked." "It's slipping through."
We don't have comprehensive systems of checking for a lot of other
types of crimes and yet when the Justice Department wants to, it can
at least find *some* examples of the crime and win at least a case.
Where there's smoke there's fire.
But in this case, the only smoke is Rush and Rove. No reality. No
fire.
But the right-wing has been trumpeting voting fraud over and over and
now it works on Bill and guys like him. I can just see it -- some
local Dem he voted for for local office is trying to become president
and we start seeing ads linking him to nebulous voter fraud and
"progressive" groups and Bill starts to have doubts. But hey, he
considered voting democractic so he's really independent, right?
Howard Kveck
> UNTIL you jerks can tell me you are stupid enough to sign on to one of those
> mortgages where you pay interest only for 2 years and then your payment
> DOUBLES and you know your income will not THEN I will think you really
> believe in you rhetoric.
Because the mortgage brokers told them that it would go up but only a little. They
were not telling people that their mortgage payment would double. The low income
people we're talking about overwhelmingly have not previously owned so they were
inexperienced in the process of the paperwork involved and (as I've said before)
since most people are raised to **trust banks and bankers**, they had no reason to
doubt it when the broker told them stuff that turned out to be bullshit.
Richer people who got ARMs while buying McMansions or condos to flip should have
known better but were stupid enough to think the price of the homes they were buying
would always go up. They were wrong. And that is the group who are responsible for
the largest part of the foreclosures.
Fred Fredburger
<pointless stuff>
Barack Obama said "Hi" to a child molester once. That's all that really
matters.