Niels Albert looks like he's been...
Ockham Razor
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/superprestige-diegem-c1/elite-men/photos/99367
bar
wrote:
> Niels Albert looks like he's been cut and pasted here:
>
don't let LeMond read this ... it'll launch a whole new wave of
virtual wins (via photoshop)
Tom Kunich
news:2bd8c259-5997-4731...@m11g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
You know, LeMond was a pain in the butt on some things but nevertheless he
was a great racer. You really ought to have some respect.
bar
> "bar" <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote in message
i respect the accomplishments, not the man.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> "bar" <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote in message
When was the last time this bot was upgraded?
-rj
Mexican Low Rider Mafia
"ronaldo_jeremiah" <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e5eb8936-1909-4933...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
-rj
If it was up your ass you'd know.
Tom Kunich
>
> i respect the accomplishments, not the man.
How do you separate them? Watch Greg's racing on the available disks. What's
pretty plain was that he was riding over his head most of the time. Took
lots of courage to ride like that.
ronaldo_jeremiah
> Watch Greg's racing on the available disks. What's
> pretty plain was that he was riding over his head most of the time.
Please explain to us how you can plainly see that he 'rides over his
head.' Also, explain what the fuck that means.
-rj
A. Dumas
> On Dec 27, 6:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" wrote:
>> Watch Greg's racing on the available disks. What's
>> pretty plain was that he was riding over his head most of the time.
>
> Please explain to us how you can plainly see that he 'rides over his
> head.' Also, explain what the fuck that means.
Greg plays the tuba.
WTF
"A. Dumas" <alex...@dumas.fr> wrote:
And you play the _skin_ flute..
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
ditto.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "bar" <barbari...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6facdfa6-af07-4b7d...@q2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > i respect the accomplishments, not the man.
>
> How do you separate them?
<snip>
Dumbass -
LemonD isn't the first, nor will he be the last person who
accomplished great things, but was a tool as a person.
Other sporting examples who are/were quite a bit worse than LemonD: OJ
Simpson, Bobby Fisher. Those guys were pretty bad.
Then there's the lesser ones: Eugene Robinson, Jock Boyer.
Athletes are just people. They have flaws just like normal people.
Some of them are egomaniacs, just like there are some egomaniacs in
the general population. Some of them are sociopaths, just as there are
sociopaths in the general population.
thanks,
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Tom Kunich
news:77d47966-f6e2-409c...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> accomplished great things, but was a tool as a person.
Then you actually know Greg?
> Athletes are just people. They have flaws just like normal people.
> Some of them are egomaniacs, just like there are some egomaniacs in
> the general population. Some of them are sociopaths, just as there are
> sociopaths in the general population.
In case you've missed it - Greg doesn't argue that he's better. He argues
that he won cleanly.
Bob Schwartz
> "ronaldo_jeremiah" <ronaldo_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e5eb8936-1909-4933...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> -rj
>
>
>
>
> If it was up your ass you'd know.
>
>
Dumbass,
Posting something like that using Outlook Express
just fucks it all up. Stop being such a retard.
Bob Schwartz
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:77d47966-f6e2-409c...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Dumbass -
That's not what we have an issue with.
He's arguing that certain riders are dirty. Riders whom he believes
threaten his legacy. Americans who won the TdF (LANCE and Flandis).
Let me point out that he doesn't say shit about Tyler Hamilton. It's
because Tyler didn't win the TdF.
LemonD is a tool.
--D-y
> In case you've missed it - Greg doesn't argue that he's better. He argues
> that he won cleanly.
Greg's whole deal is that he had a super high VO2 max, and that made
him "better".
Maybe so, but there's an elitist sense of entitlement there that I
find tool-ish (in the sense of "socially inept").
You've stated your own doubts about his "cleanly", IRT going out the
back door in the Giro and winning the TdF a short time later.
"Iron shots". Remember?
Greg might have good reason to be angry and bitter, but he has only
harmed himself, and bike racing, with his remarks.
Major tool-time, dude!
--D-y
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
100% agree.
Scott
> On Dec 27, 9:22 pm, "Tom Kunich" <tkun...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > In case you've missed it - Greg doesn't argue that he's better. He argues
> > that he won cleanly.
>
> Greg's whole deal is that he had a super high VO2 max, and that made
> him "better".
I don't know how well documented it is, but it was certainly widely
reported that Lemond had a very high VO2 max.
But, it was also widely reported that LA has some sort of freakish
ability to dissipate lactic acid, supposedly allowing him to operate
at abnormally high levels of lactic acid in the blood, essentially
raising his lactate threshold to inhuman levels. If this is true, the
Lemond should appreciate that we're dealing with someone who's not
quite like everyone else, just like himself. It's crazy that he
automatically assumes that LA is doping but denies that he himself
ever doped.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
LemonD filters out the LANCE lactate data purposefully because it
doesn't fit his agenda.
VO2 max does fit his agenda.
Scott
Lemond has an agenda?
Amit Ghosh
\
> But, it was also widely reported that LA has some sort of freakish
> ability to dissipate lactic acid, supposedly allowing him to operate
> at abnormally high levels of lactic acid in the blood, essentially
> raising his lactate threshold to inhuman levels. If this is true, the
> Lemond should appreciate that we're dealing with someone who's not
> quite like everyone else, just like himself. It's crazy that he
> automatically assumes that LA is doping but denies that he himself
> ever doped.
dumbass,
lemond's feud with armstrong started when it was revealed that
armstrong was using ferrari and the press asked his opinion about it
and armstrong subsequently confronted lemond about his response.
in the case of landis, he only became part of the case when landis
actually called him up (making the so-called soft confession) and we
know about what happened after that - the manager's threat and
revelations about lemond being sexually assaulted as a youngster.
lemond may have a selfish agenda, but i don't think he's off base on
his accusations. how do you explain the stephanie mcilvain recording
lemond made and her retraction ?
Scott
I don't have an explanation for McIlvain's recording and subsequent
retraction. Haven't given it a moment's thought.
BTW, all that stuff you wrote in response to my earlier post, does any
of it have anything to do with what I wrote? Are you arguing that
anything I wrote was incorrect?
I understand everything you wrote, but I don't see the relationship to
what I'd written previously. You seem to be arguing the point that LA
must have been doping, when my post was all about both Lemond and LA
having physical characteristics that make them predisposed to success
in cycling and given that Lemond knows this about himself and LA, he
shouldn't be so quick to cast aspersions on LA, as if there was no
other explanation for his dominance.
I am not making any argument or taking any position on whether LA has
doped. Don't know, don't care.
Michael Press
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Lemond used up that respect. Let him do something respectable,
and I'll think about it.
--
Michael Press
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
LemonD's targets have 2 things in common:
1) they're American
2) they've won the TdF
He doesn't go after foreigners. Doesn't go after TdF winning (some of
whom were for sure dirty) Indurain, Ullrich, Riis or Pantani. Doesn't
go after other Americans who were dirty (Olympic Gold Medalist Tyler
Hamilton).
He goes after guys whom he believes threaten his legacy. Americans
whom have won the TdF.
--D-y
<kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dumbass -
>
> LemonD's targets have 2 things in common:
>
> 1) they're American
> 2) they've won the TdF
>
> He doesn't go after foreigners. Doesn't go after TdF winning (some of
> whom were for sure dirty) Indurain, Ullrich, Riis or Pantani. Doesn't
> go after other Americans who were dirty (Olympic Gold Medalist Tyler
> Hamilton).
>
> He goes after guys whom he believes threaten his legacy. Americans
> whom have won the TdF.
(excuse me please):
"The legacy he is entitled to because he tested high for VO2 max."
That's what Lemond doesn't seem to get: "It's not all for free because
you have natural ability".
Repeating, I'm not in any kind of loop here IRT Lance but I've "seen"
and have been told (by people who do know him personally) that he
leads life on the run, most every day. When that focus was turned on
the TdF, it was a bitch. Coming back and getting 3rd (first Vet) was a
bitch, too.
If he can't win one more, it won't be for lack of attention to
preparation.
Greg to my extremely limited knowledge doesn't have anything like
Lance's carpe diem.
(excuse repetition of a low blow, please):
"Lance Armstrong Foundation" v. "Official Greg Lemond Hunter Safety
Course"?
Agreed, Greg isn't up on his high horse attacking doping for the sake
of rider health and fair competition, he's attacking those who have
stolen his "birthright".
--D-y
Amit Ghosh
>
> LemonD's targets have 2 things in common:
>
> 1) they're American
> 2) they've won the TdF
>
> He doesn't go after foreigners. Doesn't go after TdF winning (some of
> whom were for sure dirty) Indurain, Ullrich, Riis or Pantani. Doesn't
> go after other Americans who were dirty (Olympic Gold Medalist Tyler
> Hamilton).
>
> He goes after guys whom he believes threaten his legacy. Americans
> whom have won the TdF.
>
dumbass,
yes, but that doesn't mean what he is saying is always bullshit.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
The rationales for his positions are crap, like the VO2 max thing, or
that one can tell who's doping because they have a performance that's
statistically anamolous.
He doesn't have any real evidence. Most every other retired athlete in
any sport knows that one shouldn't be engaging in that sort of
fingerpointing unless there is evidence. It's bad for the finger
pointer and it's bad for the sport.
Mike Jacoubowsky
news:3_2dnZBy5s35uaXW...@earthlink.com...
Greg didn't come out of the woodwork until Lance's victories threatened his
own record. And he *has* argued that he's better, but that situations such
as his turkey-shot poisoning led to his demise. There's an awful lot of
regret for what could have been. That's really unfortunate, because his
accomplishments stand on their own and don't need embellishment via virtual
victories. He was an awesome rider. Anybody questioning that is out of their
mind. On the bike LeMond was a true Champion. But I don't think that's what
we're talking about here.
It is true that LeMond has suffered some truly unfortunate things in his
life, including that phone call from Landis's friend claiming to be
something terrifyling ugly from his past. Nobody deserves that. But we can
empathize with that while still questioning the *manner* in which he regards
the past and current situation in cycling. He could be much more effective
and far less destructive than he has chosen to be. And it is a choice.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
Tom Kunich
news:DdOdnY2mUuEMEKfW...@earthlink.com...
>
> Greg didn't come out of the woodwork until Lance's victories threatened
> his own record. And he *has* argued that he's better, but that situations
> such as his turkey-shot poisoning led to his demise. There's an awful lot
> of regret for what could have been. That's really unfortunate, because his
> accomplishments stand on their own and don't need embellishment via
> virtual victories. He was an awesome rider. Anybody questioning that is
> out of their mind. On the bike LeMond was a true Champion. But I don't
> think that's what we're talking about here.
Hmm, I heard LeMond talking about the problem in pro-racing before Lance was
anyone to even think about. Remember that they overlapped slightly. Greg was
arguing that drugs were destroying the sport at that time and he was quite
correct.
That he later started complaining that Lance was using (like everyone else
mind you) was later.
> It is true that LeMond has suffered some truly unfortunate things in his
> life, including that phone call from Landis's friend claiming to be
> something terrifyling ugly from his past. Nobody deserves that. But we can
> empathize with that while still questioning the *manner* in which he
> regards the past and current situation in cycling. He could be much more
> effective and far less destructive than he has chosen to be. And it is a
> choice.
I'm not saying that Greg is someone of impeccable character but only that
what he is arguing is pretty much spot on.
I'm not supporting his stupidity attacks, but just reminding ourselves that
he isn't lying about the problems in pro racing.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote in message
>
> news:DdOdnY2mUuEMEKfW...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
> > Greg didn't come out of the woodwork until Lance's victories threatened
> > his own record. And he *has* argued that he's better, but that situations
> > such as his turkey-shot poisoning led to his demise. There's an awful lot
> > of regret for what could have been. That's really unfortunate, because his
> > accomplishments stand on their own and don't need embellishment via
> > virtual victories. He was an awesome rider. Anybody questioning that is
> > out of their mind. On the bike LeMond was a true Champion. But I don't
> > think that's what we're talking about here.
>
> Hmm, I heard LeMond talking about the problem in pro-racing before Lance was
> anyone to even think about. Remember that they overlapped slightly. Greg was
> arguing that drugs were destroying the sport at that time and he was quite
> correct.
>
> That he later started complaining that Lance was using (like everyone else
> mind you) was later.
<snip>
Dumbass -
You're such an idiot. When some people in this forum say the same
stuff that LemonD says (Keith for instance), you throw them under the
bus, but when it comes out of LemonD's mouth, then you defend it?
Moron. You've got your bike racer hero worship up to such a level that
when one guy calls another guy a doper, you simulaneously say that the
doper is clean and that the accuser's accusations are correct, just
because they're both bike racers whom you worship.
Idiot.
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" <tkun...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:3_2dnZBy5s35uaXW...@earthlink.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
Dumbass -
I agree except for my words would describe LemonD's character in far
harsher terms. That guy sucks ass. If he didn't have all that bike
racing talent, he would've eventually sucked ass at whatever he did.
That sort of narcissistic, entitlement syndrome works only in sport,
where one's talent can cause people to overlook other character flaws.
Not so in other professions.
Fred Fredburger
That's lame.
In a world where people didn't have reputations, in a world where there
was no such thing as credibility, it would be a reasonable response.
In _this_ world, people who spout enough bullshit either don't get
listened to or else end up on a cable news channel. Lemond's not on TV,
lately.
Michael Press
<c7895a41-ea0c-44a7...@e20g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Amit Ghosh <amit....@gmail.com> wrote:
Everything Lemond says is tainted when it relates to
Lance Armstrong. Armstrong owns Lemond, and Lemond
proves it every time he speaks about Lance Armstrong.
--
Michael Press
Howard Kveck
"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> That sort of narcissistic, entitlement syndrome works only in sport,
> where one's talent can cause people to overlook other character flaws.
> Not so in other professions.
Acting and music come to mind too.
--
tanx,
Howard
Caught playing safe
It's a bored game
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Howard Kveck
"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 29, 8:46�am, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 28, 11:31�pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
> >
> >
> >
> > > LemonD's targets have 2 things in common:
> >
> > > 1) they're American
> > > 2) they've won the TdF
> >
> > > He doesn't go after foreigners. Doesn't go after TdF winning (some of
> > > whom were for sure dirty) Indurain, Ullrich, Riis or Pantani. Doesn't
> > > go after other Americans who were dirty (Olympic Gold Medalist Tyler
> > > Hamilton).
> >
> > > He goes after guys whom he believes threaten his legacy. Americans
> > > whom have won the TdF.
> >
> > dumbass,
> >
> > yes, but that doesn't mean what he is saying is always bullshit.
>
>
>
> Dumbass -
>
> The rationales for his positions are crap, like the VO2 max thing, or
> that one can tell who's doping because they have a performance that's
> statistically anamolous.
One of the things that makes him very tool-like is that he's saying that he can
tell by a rider's performance whether he's doping or not: a ride that doesn't seem
"possible." But many of his own rides easily fit into that category. For example,
when he was dominating senior category races as a junior.
William Asher
> In article
> <a5a44b7a-5770-4ca9...@d32g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That sort of narcissistic, entitlement syndrome works only in sport,
>> where one's talent can cause people to overlook other character
>> flaws. Not so in other professions.
>
> Acting and music come to mind too.
>
Science is like that too. Not that I would know anything about talent
overcoming character flaws mind you.
50/50
--
Bill Asher
bjwe...@gmail.com
No, it's not bullshit, in the sense that he fingers people
who actually probably (almost certainly) did break the
rules, but since the reasoning behind it is flawed,
he does more damage than good to the "cause" he
thinks he is advancing.
Sometimes, people argue a case with bad reasoning,
and it's embarrassing to anyone who wants to make
the case the right way. This happens in political disputes
all the time, and sometimes you see it in cases of the
broader applications of science (like environmental
or health disputes), and it's really frustrating because
it creates so much obfuscation that it's impossible
to make the correct case clearly any longer.
Lemond is like that, although perhaps worse since he's
advocating an essentially judicial procedure but feels
exempt from normal standards of proof. Although, I'm
not so frustrated as I would be over some important
ecological dispute, because this is sports and it's not
really that important whether Lemond and the others
find justice and smite the wrongdoers.
Ben
William R. Mattil
>
> Greg didn't come out of the woodwork until Lance's victories threatened
> his own record. And he *has* argued that he's better, but that
> situations such as his turkey-shot poisoning led to his demise. There's
> an awful lot of regret for what could have been. That's really
> unfortunate, because his accomplishments stand on their own and don't
> need embellishment via virtual victories. He was an awesome rider.
> Anybody questioning that is out of their mind. On the bike LeMond was a
> true Champion. But I don't think that's what we're talking about here.
>
> It is true that LeMond has suffered some truly unfortunate things in his
> life, including that phone call from Landis's friend claiming to be
> something terrifyling ugly from his past. Nobody deserves that. But we
> can empathize with that while still questioning the *manner* in which he
> regards the past and current situation in cycling. He could be much more
> effective and far less destructive than he has chosen to be. And it is a
> choice.
Mike,
Very well put. Thanks
Bill
--
William R. Mattil
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
> In article <dd663a6b-c1f5-4509-abbb-e7066c3a0...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 8:46 am, Amit Ghosh <amit.gh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Dec 28, 11:31 pm, "Kurgan. presented by Gringioni."
>
> > > > LemonD's targets have 2 things in common:
>
> > > > 1) they're American
> > > > 2) they've won the TdF
>
> > > > He doesn't go after foreigners. Doesn't go after TdF winning (some of
> > > > whom were for sure dirty) Indurain, Ullrich, Riis or Pantani. Doesn't
> > > > go after other Americans who were dirty (Olympic Gold Medalist Tyler
> > > > Hamilton).
>
> > > > He goes after guys whom he believes threaten his legacy. Americans
> > > > whom have won the TdF.
>
> > > dumbass,
>
> > > yes, but that doesn't mean what he is saying is always bullshit.
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > The rationales for his positions are crap, like the VO2 max thing, or
> > that one can tell who's doping because they have a performance that's
> > statistically anamolous.
>
> One of the things that makes him very tool-like is that he's saying that he can
> tell by a rider's performance whether he's doping or not: a ride that doesn't seem
> "possible." But many of his own rides easily fit into that category. For example,
> when he was dominating senior category races as a junior.
Dumbass -
Bingo.
1989 Worlds too. Chasing down Fignon in the last kilo AND winning the
sprint over Sean Kelly.
Donald Munro
> In _this_ world, people who spout enough bullshit either don't get
> listened to or else end up on a cable news channel. Lemond's not on TV,
> lately.
Maybe he could make it on Fox if he claims Obama must have doped to win.
Scott
In the interest of full disclosure, Konishev beat Kelly, too. Plus,
Kelly has stated he thinks he was hampered by his decision to run a 13
as his smallest cog.
"This one goes to 11."
--D-y
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJSgzHTRg38>
Chasing Fignon down at least twice in the last 2-3 miles, and catching
Claveyrolat, too.
That kind of performance is why NASCAR has post-race teardown
inspections <g>.
Not great camera work, or editing. Kelly closed a sizeable gap on the
last downhill, which we don't get to see here. At one moment, the
leading group was doing 90 km/hr downhill in the rain.
A great ride, a great victory. Shoulda kept his mout' shut. Too bad!
--D-y
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
Dumbass -
Konyshev beat him too, but Kelly stopped pedaling once he realized
LemonD would hold him off. When asked about it by the press, that's
when he issued the famous, "second place, third place, what's the
difference? The only place that matters is first."
A. Dumas
Interview with him (in Dutch/Flemish obviousy) about the 2nd lap sprint
in the GVA Trofee race in Loenhout where Gerben de Knegt "stole" a point
from him and he flipped De Knegt off, also with images of the incident:
http://nl.tinypic.com/m/6t3ips/1
Scott
I haven't heard that particular story, but it certainly seems
feasible. Kelly, btw, is one of my 'old school' favorite riders.
Tchmil is another.
Ryan Cousineau
<5bd63331-258d-48e0...@e27g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Bah, Steve Bauer displayed his usual spectacularly bad luck. If anyone
deserves a couple of virtual Worlds titles, it's the Canadian.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
--D-y
> Bah, Steve Bauer displayed his usual spectacularly bad luck. If anyone
> deserves a couple of virtual Worlds titles, it's the Canadian.
Well, "luck" but then there's the ancient interview (probably Velo
News) where Bauer revealed that he and Tomac had gone on some
incredibly hard, long ride just the day before.
Kinda crazy, kinda stupid, like they went out there and egged each
other on, with a healthy dose of stage fright mixed in.
Isn't the wwweb great? Look what I found <g>:
<http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/john-tomac-the-gnarly-pav-of-
roubaix-21151>
(quote from above link):
1990: 7-Eleven and Steve Bauer
Our big gun for Roubaix in 1990 was Bauer. He had some good form that
year and we both rode the Thursday test together, doing all the
sections of pavé at a very good speed. I felt really good that day
also, staying with Steve as we pounded through all the sectors of pavé
together. In hindsight I rode much, too hard that day, and it took the
edge off my good legs for Sunday. The same thing wasn't true for
Steve, however; he was second to Eddy Planckaert in a photo finish,
the closest Roubaix finish ever! Steve and 7-Eleven came up just 10mm
too short. (end)
Geeze, I wonder how ol' Steve could have done if he'd been more
careful about saving some gas for Sunday (the day of the actual
event)?
You can watch a film clip of the finish attached to the Tomac
interview.
Um, I only have a little track experience but going uphill and slowing
down, then having to jump hard to catch the two chasers you knew were
coming, and who-- guess what?-- took the short way to the blue
line...? Not the way I would have done it (I hope).
Planckaert, looks to me, had just that little more pop in the last
pedal strokes, enough to go around the top and take the V with a touch
more speed right at the line-- just like you're supposed to do it,
with your opponent thinking he has you.
Luck had nothing to do with it, except maybe *not* having an ill-timed
flat tire and even that isn't all luck.
Nothing personal (or nationalistic, either) but geeze!!! getting beat
by _Alexi Grewal_ in a two-up for the Olympic Road Race?
Is that bad luck, too? Or just being way too overconfident or
something? --D-y
Ryan Cousineau
<b61fc0d7-39c8-4cc1...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jan 1, 5:21�am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bah, Steve Bauer displayed his usual spectacularly bad luck. If anyone
> > deserves a couple of virtual Worlds titles, it's the Canadian.
>
> Well, "luck" but then there's the ancient interview (probably Velo
> News) where Bauer revealed that he and Tomac had gone on some
> incredibly hard, long ride just the day before.
> Kinda crazy, kinda stupid, like they went out there and egged each
> other on, with a healthy dose of stage fright mixed in.
>
> Isn't the wwweb great? Look what I found <g>:
>
> <http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/john-tomac-the-gnarly-pav-of-roubaix-21151>
> Um, I only have a little track experience but going uphill and slowing
> down, then having to jump hard to catch the two chasers you knew were
> coming, and who-- guess what?-- took the short way to the blue
> line...? Not the way I would have done it (I hope).
> Planckaert, looks to me, had just that little more pop in the last
> pedal strokes, enough to go around the top and take the V with a touch
> more speed right at the line-- just like you're supposed to do it,
> with your opponent thinking he has you.
Heh. Not all of Bauer's near-misses were bad luck in the strictest sense
(though I would say that given the number of times he just missed the
Big Win, Bauer was either especially untalented at finishing off races*,
or notably unlucky at finishing off races.
> Luck had nothing to do with it, except maybe *not* having an ill-timed
> flat tire and even that isn't all luck.
There is also the matter of the dubious DQ at the '88 Worlds when he and
Criquelion came together.
> Nothing personal (or nationalistic, either) but geeze!!! getting beat
> by _Alexi Grewal_ in a two-up for the Olympic Road Race?
> Is that bad luck, too? Or just being way too overconfident or
> something? --D-y
Bauer was the Canadian Pou-Pou, sure, but I am the guy who thinks that
second (or third, or top-ten) is not that bad. He did win the Dauphin�,
won a stage and spent 14 days in yellow, and so forth. He was a
world-class danger man, and maybe the reality was he rode over his head
and was in an unusual number of decisive moments for someone of his
talents.
But of course, I really made the crack because when you see someone with
a lot of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th places you think "wow, first loser!" And also
because I got to make the "virtual Worlds" joke.
*not the same as Hincapie Disease, which is where you're a "favorite"
for some race or another, and then don't actually make it into the
winning bunch.
--D-y
> There is also the matter of the dubious DQ at the '88 Worlds when he and
> Criquelion came together.
That did suck.
> Bauerwas the Canadian Pou-Pou, sure, but I am the guy who thinks that
> second (or third, or top-ten) is not that bad.
You're not the only one. I understand "first loser" and all, but by no
means think the only thing is "winning".
> I got to make the "virtual Worlds" joke.
One of the words that Lemond shouldn't have used, for sure.
> *not the same as Hincapie Disease, which is where you're a "favorite"
> for some race or another, and then don't actually make it into the
> winning bunch.
George was, by account, a lieutenant for seven TdF wins in a row, won
a stage juiced to the gills <g>. Then switched roles to become a
successful lead-out man. That's a career IMHO; too bad about Paris-
Roubaix, it's over George's stage fright threshold.
--D-y
Ryan Cousineau
<26d7fdef-e319-4c54...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
--D-y <dusto...@mac.com> wrote:
Okay, and I have to be fair here: it's the same deal, George has had a
good career, as far as these things go.
Though Bauer was a far more important rider in his day, and I don't know
if George's fans would be able to admit (understand?) that.
Okay, they were no Seans Kelly, but...
Scott
> In article
> <26d7fdef-e319-4c54-8b3b-546eee023...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
I wonder how many of GH's competitors have ever really considered him
a threat for the classics? I imagine he's well respected, perhaps
even well liked, but did anyone ever fear him?
My guess is that in his day, Bauer was far more feared/respected than
Hincapie. Just a guess.
Michael Press
Not only successful lead out. Add captain of the squad that
ran the peloton, and dictated the chase in flat stages.
You nailed it with "stage fright." He does his best work
in the scrum.
--
Michael Press
--D-y
Bauer's Worlds DQ (IMHO) shows fear.
Hincapie, from brief looks at the raging peloton over the last k's
leading into a TdF bunch sprint (George at the front, no one coming
around), aroused a different variety of fear.
I don't think he gets that kind of respect anywhere near the end of P-
R; more like none who regard themselves as worthy winners want to get
beat by him. Which would make seeing George finally "get over it" and
punch the thing out very rewarding, speaking personally.
Well, we all have our crosses to bear, as they say. And The Money just
gets to being a given, with the scoreboard being what really counts,
where you live (ask Greg Lemond) (virtually, of course).
George helped make the USA a legit cycling entity (if you remember the
first 7-11 forays to the Continent, and bless them for it).
Kevin Livingston, too, just speaking up for a homeboy who was very
much there at the Beginning of Lance. Minor loyalty moments, NBD.
--D-y
z
George never rode for 7-Eleven.
Bob Schwartz
> Heh. Not all of Bauer's near-misses were bad luck in the strictest sense
> (though I would say that given the number of times he just missed the
> Big Win, Bauer was either especially untalented at finishing off races*,
> or notably unlucky at finishing off races.
With respect to the near miss in the Roubaix velodrome, Planckaert
has been very open about his EPO use at the end of his career. So
no, I wouldn't write that off to bad luck either.
Bob Schwartz
--D-y
Exactly <g>.
--D-y