I Hate My Car!!!!
Roj Avon
As a Newbie to cycling who has only recently started reading this
newsgroup I think the best ad for the bike commute of all is owning a
car.
Two days after an oil change my wife's car breaks down on her way to
church last night. Oil leaks everywhere and she has to hoof it home
a couple of miles. A tow truck has to be called with the full
knowledge that just picking up the car will be at least $25-35 plus
mileage...then take it to a garage which can pretty much tell the
average driver anything they want and charge any price they want
disguising the mark up as labor....not to mention the 5 other things
they find wrong with your car that you "really should get fixed while
we've got it on the rack".
All morning my day has been disrupted with thoughts of what I'm going
to do if indeed, as I first thought, my car dropped all its oil and
the engine has locked up for good. New car? Fix the old one?
Well it all worked out...the oil turned out to be gas and an
adjustment to a fuel line fixed the problem but still......I don't'
need this aggravation.
You know if it weren't for my stupid cars I'd have no debt at
all....for the past 5 years one or the other of my cars has had at
least one major repair job.......electircal system....then replacement
of an old car....transmission.....air conditioner....
Its funny...you know I have a car so I can have a job that pays enough
money so I can finance my freekin car repairs. I'm really tempted to
add up my car payment....insurance...fuel and throw in an average
repair bill all together and then consider carefully whether or not I
shouldn't just get a job at Barnes and Noble (a 5 minute bike ride or
so) .....yikes...the more I add all this up the more I wonder what I'm
doing here....*f*
AAAARRRRGGGHHHH
You know....cycle commuting is looking better and better.
Roj Avon
"Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here."--Melvin Udall, "As Good As It Gets"
Children of Gallifrey
A Dallas/Fort Worth Doctor Who Viewing Club
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/4814/dfwdwvs.html
Jack Dingler
I got $3500 into debt over repairs a few years ago, then ended up scrapping the car. The engine
guy blamed the transmission guy, the transmission guy blamed the engine guy... I got fit on the
bicycle during this ordeal. Now we're down to one car. My wife drives it.
There are still repairs that have to be done on a bike. I broke a spoke this morning. It'll
cost 35 cents to fix it. I'll even have to get a spoke out of my bike bag.
Jack Dingler
JAS
I found myself sentimentally attached to it. Now, living carless, I'm
much more calm. I can do almost everything by bike. What I can't I can
do by bus or metro, or taxi. If absolutely necessary I have friends who
are willing to give me a lift. It really helps that I live in a city and
am close to work. the bike commute is no challenge at all, and if I
prefer not then public transportation is fast and reliable. Sometimes as
I'm falling asleep at night I start to think about my car being parked
outside--I breathe a sigh of relief when I remember that it is one thing I
don't have to worry about anymore.
Jennifer
Lyz Filteau
But I won't.
Roj Avon wrote:
>
>
>
> All morning my day has been disrupted with thoughts of what I'm going
> to do if indeed, as I first thought, my car dropped all its oil and
> the engine has locked up for good. New car? Fix the old one?
>
Danny Nathan
money so I can finance my freekin car repairs. I'm really tempted to
add up my car payment....insurance...fuel and throw in an average
To buy a really nice bike with that money?? Its also funny for those people
who have a car to get to the job that pays the money...that buys the bike
that is powered by you and not gas! Fortunately enough, I'm a college
student who hasn't hit the 9-5 dolldrums yet. I'm also majoring in acting
and will probably be broke for the rest of my life :-) Oh the irony!!
Danny Nathan
Ken Kifer
--
What are the causes of fatigue when riding a bike?
URL: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/
Roj Avon
wrote:
>As a car sales person at Steve Marshall Ford in Nanaimo I could.......
>But I won't.
>
>
Car dealer huh? Don't get me started....
I work at a hotel where on occasion I've been able to listen in on
some Car Salesman Conferences where they learn how to screw the
consumer....give as little as possible for trade ins....lean how to
beat the customer down with that lame old...."Well let me go talk to
my manager" routine and try to defeat the fact that consumers can get
so much cost information online....
I read once that if all car dealers and lawyers were laid end to end
around the equator that nobody knew how far around the earth they
would go but it would probably make the world a better place.
The only thing worse than owning a car is buying one.
Irises
> Its funny...you know I have a car so I can have a job that pays enough
> money so I can finance my freekin car repairs. I'm really tempted to
> add up my car payment....insurance...fuel and throw in an average
> repair bill all together and then consider carefully whether or not..."
When I lived in Philly, I had a car for a portion of the time. When the car had
220K miles on it, it caught fire (short in the headlight switch). I was never
so relieved in my life. I was already taking public transit because it was
cheaper than the cost of parking the car at work. I suddenly had a *ton* of
money. I filtered it all into retirement investments and kept taking public
transit. I was more mobile via public transit than I was owning that stupid
car. Then public transit went on strike and I bought a bicycle (a simple task,
since I had all that money!). I became even *more* mobile, because I was no
longer tied to a bus/train schedule and could go anywhere without coughing up
for gasoline. It was fantastic! I saved even more money because I wasn't
shelling out $60 for a transpass. I think I was the only one routing for the
transit system to stay on strike.
Of course, I took that $60 every month and bought goodies for the bike. :P
Rach
Mr-Sp...@webtv.net
once. Guess what? I can't say the same for the customers who told me
every conceivable lie in the book. The sad fact is a good dose of the
general public will turn most honest car dealers into a reflection of
what comes through the door on a daily basis. When even the local
preachers lie to you, it's hard not to defend yourself by giving them a
dose of their own medicine.
Roj Avon
I know not all dealers are unscrupulous but Its very frustrating to
see a big room full of car dealers all together conspiring on how to
mislead and manipulate consumers. And I've seen it time and time
again. Not one meeting has ever been about "how we can educate the
consumer about the car business so we can make deals that are fair to
both sides" I have found a few car dealers that seemed honest and
straight forward...and they are the ones I've done business with but
90% of dealerships seem to use the same old rotten tactics.
No offense if you are or were one of the good ones.
I guess its a case of chicken or egg first. Rotten consumers lying
to car dealers mean that car dealers treat everybody like crap in
order to protect themselves.
Jeff R.
time, I did all the figuring and it came to about $450/month to own with the
payment, gas, insurance, and factoring in repairs (of course, this amount
drops substantially once it's paid off and I'm still driving it). And, that
was a cheap car - $14000 financed at 7.45% for 5 years. I was going to get
a nicer car, but with how little I drive (to work and back on bad weather
days, cross town errands, etc...), I couldn't justify the expense.
Another way I look at it is cost per mile. Let's say I drive it for 10
years then sell it for $2000. In that time, the car will have depreciated
$12,000 ($14000 purchase price - $2000 salvage value). Financing the car at
7.45% over 5 years incurs a interest charge of $2800. In that time, I'll
put 60,000 miles on the car. The car averages 30 miles/gallon, so I'll need
2000 gallons of gas. Here in Oregon, gas is expensive (highest in the
country) at about $1.50 per gallon. That's another $3000. Insurance is
about $800/year so 10 years worth of insurance will run $8000.
Miscellaneous repairs (oil changes, new tires, car washes, etc...) run about
$150/yr. Over the 10 year lifespan, that's another $1500.
Adding it all up, I get:
$12000 depreciation
$2800 interest charge for financing at 7.45% over 5 years
$3000 gas
$8000 insurance
$1500 miscellaneous repairs.
Total cost of car ownership for 10 years: $27,300
Total miles in 10 year period: 60,000
Cost per mile: $0.45/mile
Now look at the rate per mile for a very nice bicycle:
$2000 purchase price. Ride the bike for 10 years then sell it for $200
after that time. I average about 4000 cycling miles/year. Miscellanous
repairs about $50/year (tubes, tires, grease, etc...). Each mile of riding
burns about 40 calories (it's true, you can look it up). Nutritious food
costs about $1 for every 500 calories (wide variance there... those are my
approx. costs for the foods I like to eat).
So, for the same 10 year period, I get:
$1800 depreciation
$500 repairs
$3200 extra groceries to fuel my riding (40,000 total miles * 40 cals/mile *
$1 per 500 cals = $3200)
Total cost of cycling for 10 years: $5500
Total miles in 10 year period: 40,000
Cost per mile: $0.14 (less than one third the cost of driving).
-- Jeff
Brent & Dianne
I think the fear of being ripped off in a negotiation of price really
turns people off - and some dealers out there (or dealerships?) really
*do* lie in negotiations. Not having been a dealer I cannot say for sure,
but
I am sure many customers in their fear of being ripped off do the same.
Isn't it about time to have fair, fixed prices for all manufactured goods,
expensive or not?
I mean The Saturn Company survives only because of their creation of a non
confrontational fixed price environment?
If negotiations for price bring out the worst in everyone, then WHY DO IT
THAT WAY?
----------
In article <18151-37...@newsd-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
Eleanor MacMaster
Selling my car two years ago was the best decision I have made
in years. I got out my computer and did some calculations and
saw that I would be miles ahead (in so many respects!) if I
unloaded that gigantic, money-sucking machine and would remove
a huge burden from my shoulders. It did. Even though due to
a strange combination of cirumstances I have had to rent a car
about five times in the past two months for a weekend, I am
still way ahead. It was costing me over $100.00 per month
just to park the damn thing in my apt. bldg. parking garage and
pay the insurance - and that was before I had gone anywhere.
So, on average, I rent a car about six weekends a year -- a couple
of times maybe have to get a taxi if I need to haul something in the
winter - and use the bus for about 3 mos. of winter.
It is, however, very hard to do this through the years when you
are raising a family. I certainly could not have done without
one of the dratted things while I was hauling children daycare,
buying family-size grocery orders, taking kids to swimming,
and other classes, etc. -- and later helping to get my son
to and from university. (He still misses my car but I figure
the time is fast approaching when he can have and care for his
very own!).
What is wild is how many people think I am totally nuts (probably
my car-less state is not the only reason...but then). And now
that I am approaching elderly-cyclist status, I hear a lot of
"Oh, isn't is WONDERFUL that you do so much?" Which makes me
feel as though death must be imminent, but always sounds
very odd to me since I have been riding since my early
twenties (my riding as a child was just of an entirely different
order).
Some people quite obviously view going car-less as a rebellion
of sorts -- which, of course, it is. Unapologetically so!
--
"Biker Chick"
Mr-Sp...@webtv.net
competitors. I figured everyone deserved an excellent car no matter what
their knowledge of the market was. I went to great lengths to make sure
the odds were stacked in the customers favor. I knew which vehicle
models had histories of bad transmissions ect. and avoided them. It flat
didn't work. I got haggled any way. I was unable to stop what had been a
long standing tradition in the car business. I went back to the old way,
pricing high enough to get haggled and still make a profit. People that
think there getting away with something are only fooling themselves.
Here's what I wound up doing. If I got haggled, I played the game. If I
didn't get haggled, I'd wait till the money was changing hands. Then I'd
tell the customer that I have my reasons for doing this, and I don't do
it for everyone, here's 500 dollars cash back on the deal. They would
glow with pleasure, and so would I.
Here's an amazing fact. With all the information on the internet and in
magazines ect. not one customer knew how to evaluate a vehicle, not one.
Believe me, if they don't do a couple of things when there looking a car
over, the dealer knows you don't know what your doing.
I read consumer reports advice and I just laugh. If a dealer used this
information to evaluate vehicles, he''d be eaten alive.
Financing, you only need to know one thing and all the smoke and mirrors
disappear. It's hard to believe that something so simple isn't practiced
by the general public. I'll be happy to give you the answer via e-mail.
Richard Masoner
"Brent & Dianne" <br...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> If negotiations for price bring out the worst in everyone, then WHY DO IT
> THAT WAY?
I'm not sure what this has to do with cycling, but I personally enjoy
haggling on the price on everything from automobiles to the steaks at
the supermarket.
Richard Masoner
Jessica L. Mosher
Oh sure, but buying a car is soooo Victorian.
When I was shopping I brought along a Decoy Boy. Oh, it worked so
well. At every dealership save one the salesman knew what he did for a
living, what he lived in, what he currently drove, what sports he
watched. All they knew about me is that I had a broken arm from an
accident and needed a car quickly. And when it came to the bargaining
table, the broken arm bought me NOTHING in sympathy.
The mutual chorus of oinking throughout the entire auto shopping
experience made rec.bicycles.racing seem like the Michigan Women's
Festival. These guys could not stoop too low.
--
Jessica L. Mosher UniKix Technologies
j.mo...@unikix.com
"At the end of the day, it is our actions, not our beliefs, that define
who we are and what we are." --Unknown
BQinMD
<j.mo...@unikix.com> writes:
>The mutual chorus of oinking throughout the entire auto shopping
>experience made rec.bicycles.racing seem like the Michigan Women's
>Festival. These guys could not stoop too low.
My wife was a much better business person than I. She would spot a likely car,
go in alone, get a quote (after being ignored too long) and leave. A few hours
later I'd check it out. Generally the salesfolk were fairly cooperative when
we'd go in the third time together and ask for an explanation of why the price
quoted to her was at least 10% higher. I hate haggling. I support my LBS
enough they give me an occassional (unsolicited) break on prices. I even feel
guilty about that.
Bill Yoder Harford County, MD USA
Roj Avon
>Here's what I wound up doing. If I got haggled, I played the game. If I
>didn't get haggled, I'd wait till the money was changing hands. Then I'd
>tell the customer that I have my reasons for doing this, and I don't do
>it for everyone, here's 500 dollars cash back on the deal. They would
>glow with pleasure, and so would I.
>
Wow...if there were more people like you selling cars....people
wouldn't hate buying them so much.
Its a shame that more dealers don't try the "no haggle" pricing...but
I can understand why they don't.....its just too en grained that
"sticker price = sucker price".
Jessica L. Mosher
Roj Avon wrote:
>
> On Sat, 31 Jul 1999 23:17:30 -0400 (EDT), Mr-Sp...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> >Here's what I wound up doing. If I got haggled, I played the game. If I
> >didn't get haggled, I'd wait till the money was changing hands. Then I'd
> >tell the customer that I have my reasons for doing this, and I don't do
> >it for everyone, here's 500 dollars cash back on the deal. They would
> >glow with pleasure, and so would I.
> >
>
> Wow...if there were more people like you selling cars....people
> wouldn't hate buying them so much.
>
> Its a shame that more dealers don't try the "no haggle" pricing...but
> I can understand why they don't.....its just too en grained that
> "sticker price = sucker price".
When I bought my latest car, they asked me for the intro price. When it
became clear that I was going to have to "start" I suggested something
outrageous. They started to throw us off the lot. I explained that
since I had to name the first price, what did I have to lose? The
salesperson told me that they weren't "used" to haggling since the
industry was trying to move away from that, and so many people preferred
leasing these days.
As for this technique--I was squandered out of an extra $500; they
"forgot" that I was only purchasing a car that was certified used. For
their trouble I've told all 100 people in the office and probably 200
more how horrible my shopping experience was, in spite of being a repeat
customer.
Bottom feeders. Too stupid to even try to find out that I'm a software
engineer.
wheels78
"I mean The Saturn Company survives only because of their creation of a
nonconfrontational fixed price environment"
Straighten me out on this if you know something I don't, but I have
read that for years Saturn has had one of the highest customer
satisfaction ratings of all the different companies.
Bob
In article <7nu58r$p...@dfw-ixnews14.ix.netcom.com>,
"Brent & Dianne" <br...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Too bad you aren;t still one - might have a few web customers!
>
> I think the fear of being ripped off in a negotiation of price really
> turns people off - and some dealers out there (or dealerships?) really
> *do* lie in negotiations. Not having been a dealer I cannot say for
sure,
> but
> I am sure many customers in their fear of being ripped off do the
same.
>
> Isn't it about time to have fair, fixed prices for all manufactured
goods,
> expensive or not?
> I mean The Saturn Company survives only because of their creation of a
non
> confrontational fixed price environment?
>
> If negotiations for price bring out the worst in everyone, then WHY DO
IT
> THAT WAY?
>
> ----------
> In article <18151-37...@newsd-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> Mr-Sp...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> >Well Roj, I was a car dealer and I never ripped anyone off, not even
> >once. Guess what? I can't say the same for the customers who told me
> >every conceivable lie in the book. The sad fact is a good dose of the
> >general public will turn most honest car dealers into a reflection of
> >what comes through the door on a daily basis. When even the local
> >preachers lie to you, it's hard not to defend yourself by giving them
a
> >dose of their own medicine.
> >
>
--
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
George Stuteville
I pity it at this point and keep it running because it makes life so
much easier to haul my son to soccer camp, for example.
But I feel sorry for my car when we are bogged down on I-95 at about
five miles an hour. That type of travel is absolute hell on my car.
Plus, it gives my boxy old vehicle a complex when it idles next to some
dinosaur of an SUV.
So I am doing my best to ease my car into retirement.
My car has been rejoicing on the mornings I bike in. No longer does it
have to participate in that rage-inducing, stinking, competitive, mess
(not to mention enduring the lonely vigil in the dark parking garage) as
it dreaded the evening rush.
My car was all for it when I wired a big basket on my bike to ferry my
own groceries from store to pantry.
All this means more time my poor old Escort can stay in the driveway --
happy, indolent, rusting away, springing strange leaks and anticipating
eternity in that great salvage yard in the sky.