Pittsburgh Tribune Wants Bikes OFF the Road!!
Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bicycles and cars don't mix
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/columnists/vassilaros/s_8
2631.html
By Dimitri Vassilaros
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, July 23, 2002
I don't want to share the road with a bicycle. However, you and I must
because if we did not, it could lead to tragedy. Drivers have to follow
the law, but that does not mean we have to like it.
The Tour de France seems to have spawned the Tour de South Hills ‹ if
you'll pardon my French.
Are your secondary arteries clogged by clumps of Lance Armstrong-esque
bicyclists sporting aerodynamic helmets, colorful skintight synthetics
and baseball-size calf muscles?
Drivers anywhere near East McMurray Road are plagued by these swarms
most weekends. Do you have the same problem where you live?
If you see them up ahead, you are forced to drive slower than the
slowest one of the pack while you ponder if you can pull out without
grazing one and not plowing into an oncoming car around the next bend.
Bicyclists are an accident waiting to happen.
Your municipality should be doing whatever it can to get them off the
road. It can start by taking down those yellow street signs with black
silhouettes of bike rider and car that encourage road sharing.
Common sense tells you roads are designed for most motorized vehicles:
golf carts, riding mowers and farm equipment being some of the
exceptions. Yet flimsy, two-wheeled vehicles powered by huffing and
puffing are allowed ‹ even welcomed, according to those yellow signs.
The governments' values are upside down.
Since bicycles are allowed on our streets, why not in-line skating and
skateboarding?
Cars, trucks and motorcycles pay for our roads. State and federal taxes
siphon about one-third of the cost of a gallon of gas, according to the
stickers on some gas pumps. Take the time to read one the next time you
defy the EPA by topping off your tank.
A motorist must pay for all the stickers on his car every year ‹ two on
the windshield and one on the license plate ‹ even if no repairs are
warranted. He also pays for a driver's license and auto insurance in
case of an accident. He pays dearly if he gets a speeding ticket, and
he even pays a tax for the privilege of throwing away his old tires.
And do not forget the government makes every motorist pay the hidden
costs of all safety features mandated for our vehicles. We are forced
to wear seat belts, and motorcycle riders are forced to wear helmets.
Do you think many bicycle riders have been stopped and ticketed for
safety violations?
If the government is so concerned about highway safety ‹ seat belt
this, air bag that and crash test after crash test ‹ why does it allow
bicycles anywhere near traffic? Can you name another vehicle on our
streets that has no safety features? Does the government care about
safety or not?
When those spoke-thin road hogs start paying their fair share of road
costs ‹ like motorized vehicles do ‹ then maybe we could consider
allowing them on a few isolated roads like in our city, county and
state parks, where the only drivers they could threaten would be the
teenagers whose parents are teaching them to drive.
The politically correct crowd loves bicycles. They don't use fossil
fuels They don't pollute. And the more people can be convinced to ride
them instead of cars, the more people will want to move back into the
city so their ride Downtown and back would be doable. I have even seen
bike racks on PAT buses.
Bicycling is a practical way to commute, if you live in Beijing. Cars
are a luxury there, but they are a necessity here. Safety should be a
necessity, too.
Dimitri Vassilaros can be reached at dvass...@tribweb.com or (412)
380-5637.
M A R T I N K R I E G : "Awake Again" Author
Bent Since '83, Car Free Since '89, Attacking with Love
Coma, Paralysis, Clinical Death Survivor
'79 & '86 TransAm Vet - Invites you to:
http://www.BikeRoute.com/SCNBGFest
N A T I O N A L B I C Y C L E G R E E N W A Y
Scott Munro
Greenway" <N...@bikeroute.com> wrote:
>[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
>Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
>publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
Well, the man's an idiot (and a liar; he's clearly far more concerned
with his own tiny inconveniences than with anyone's safety), but
somehow I can't find it "heartbreaking" that a newspaper chose to
print a view with which I strongly disagree.
--
Scott Munro
"But what is liberty without wisdom and without virtue? It is the
greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness,
without tuition or restraint."
--Edmund Burke, *Reflections on the Revolution in France*
Guy Chapman
Greenway" <N...@bikeroute.com> wrote:
> What to do??
My reply to this fuckwit:
"Strange. You drive on the roads which cyclists originally campaigned
for, yet you resent the cyclists for doing the same. You take up -
what? 16ft by 6ft? we take up maybe 6ft by 2ft 6in. of road space.
You move at an average of less than 12mph in the city (average speeds
now lower than in the days of the horse and cart), we move at an
average of 15mph or more. If I drive the fifteen mile round trip to
work it takes me at least thirty minutes, but if I cycle it takes less
than twenty-five. Do I live in Beijing? I most certainly do not.
"I pay my road taxes, and I leave the car at home. But wait - "spoke
thin." A light dawns. It's good old-fashioned envy! You envy the
cyclist the ability to get fit while commuting to work, rather than
wasting his life sitting in a box breathing someone else's exhaust
fumes! You think we all have a duty to line the pockets of Arab
sheikhs in order to perpetuate World Order!
"I have news for you. A car is not a necessity, any more than a
coronary is a necessity (or didn't you know that cyclists live, on
average, ten years longer?). I have a car I rarely use and a bicycle
I ride every day, so I write from experience."
Guy
===
Riding every day on a road near you (provided you live near Reading, England).
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and dynamic DNS permitting)
Above email is a spam-sink. Remove maker of Spam from bikeHO...@chapmanFOODScentral.com to reply by mail
Kyralessa
message news:230720021616187049%N...@bikeroute.com...
> [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
> Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
> publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>
> costs of all safety features mandated for our vehicles. We are forced
> to wear seat belts, and motorcycle riders are forced to wear helmets.
> Do you think many bicycle riders have been stopped and ticketed for
> safety violations?
Before anyone responds, consider whether it's worth your time to argue
with a guy who whines about the fact that people in cars are "forced" to
wear seat belts. Once I read this, I stopped taking him the least bit
seriously.
Do you suppose he's one of those who thinks he'll leap clear in a car
accident, or is he just a wuss about how horribly painful wearing a seat
belt is?
EldredP
Greenway" <N...@bikeroute.com> writes:
>Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
>publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
Geez - I'm not as gung ho as some of you here are, and I *still* think the guy
has the wrong attitude... :(
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
My .sig file is in the shop for repairs...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Mark Jones
news:230720021616187049%N...@bikeroute.com...
> publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
transportation long before cars and trucks became common.
The bicycles were here first, so it is only fair that they have
the right to be on the road.
Pete
"Mark Jones" <mej...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ahktkl$sks$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
That argument does not work with diehard "cars pay, bikes don't" people.
What might work is..."The law says so". or..."Me on my bike is one less car
in front of you".
Eventually, I just say "Tough $hit. Live with it."
Pete
S. Anderson
I've read that heavy trucks erode highways and roads at a rate approx. 100x
faster than cars. And yet they get taxed, at least here, the same as cars.
I get more pissed having to drive behind trucks doing 80kph on the highway
blocking my view of traffic knowing that they're destroying the road with
great zeal and my tax dollars are paying to store some company's inventory
on those decaying roads! Yikes, I've done it now...
Cheers!
Scott..
--
Scott Anderson
Remove the z's for e-mail..
"Pete" <p...@usaf.com> wrote in message
news:asn%8.154246$CJ2.18...@twister.neo.rr.com...
bob...@hotmail.com
Greenway" <N...@bikeroute.com> wrote:
>[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
>Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
>publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Bicycles and cars don't mix
Isn't this exactly the position your organization takes?
Bob
Kyralessa
news:Itn%8.10080$sb5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I've often wondered why car people aren't more pissed at trucks than
bikes.
> I've read that heavy trucks erode highways and roads at a rate approx.
100x
> faster than cars. And yet they get taxed, at least here, the same as
cars.
> I get more pissed having to drive behind trucks doing 80kph on the
highway
> blocking my view of traffic knowing that they're destroying the road
with
> great zeal and my tax dollars are paying to store some company's
inventory
> on those decaying roads! Yikes, I've done it now...
On the other hand, as a rule I have found that more truckers drive
politely and courteously than car drivers.
Mike Latondresse
"S. Anderson" <scott.a...@zsympaticoz.ca> wrote in message
news:Itn%8.10080$sb5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I get more pissed having to drive behind trucks doing 80kph on the
highway
> blocking my view of traffic knowing that they're destroying the road
with
> great zeal and my tax dollars are paying to store some company's
inventory
> on those decaying roads! Yikes, I've done it now...
Wow Scott is that 80k on the flats? I am impressed.
Tom Kunich
news:e8m%8.902$PG5.21...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Before anyone responds, consider whether it's worth your time to argue
> with a guy who whines about the fact that people in cars are "forced" to
> wear seat belts. Once I read this, I stopped taking him the least bit
> seriously.
Well, if you're one of those people who want to force everyone else to be
"as safe" as you are then I'm afraid I can't take anything you say
seriously.
> Do you suppose he's one of those who thinks he'll leap clear in a car
> accident, or is he just a wuss about how horribly painful wearing a seat
> belt is?
Do you suppose that you ought to be able to determine the means of death of
others?
Tom Kunich
news:3d3e0eaa....@news.east.cox.net...
My thought exactly Bob. What is the difference between a car bigot and a
bike bigot?
Chuckk Hubbard
news:mrmrjugpfp7srp9v4...@4ax.com...
>
> My reply to this fuckwit:
>
Here's mine:
"Do you think we shouldn't have clean air because we don't pay pollution
tax? All the things drivers pay for are dwarfed by the problems they
create.
As far as safety, the numbers are all over the internet. Bicyclists are
less than 2% of all auto-related fatalities; of course, there are more cars
than bikes out there, but per million, about 16 bikers to 19 auto drivers
dies in a year.
You're entitled to your opinion, but as long as it remains an uninformed
one, it's not going to change the world."
-Chuckk
Tom Keats
"Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway" <N...@bikeroute.com> writes:
> [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
> Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
I'm not even gonna look at it. I've heard it all before.
If some ppl wanna get high blood pressure over a bit of
written crap, that's their beeswax.
I don't care anymore.
I just wanna ride my bike. And I shall. Relaxedly.
Screw a buncha razmatazz.
cheerZ,
Tom
S. Anderson
damn trucks... ;-) Maybe I need to get a disc wheel...
Cheers!
--
Scott Anderson
Remove the z's for e-mail..
"Mike Latondresse" <mikelat-u...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:rVp%8.36138$v53.1...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
S. Anderson
involved in far fewer accidents per mile travelled than car drivers. It's
not the trucker's fault, but the companies they work for. A good example is
the border closing after the 9/11 incident..2 days and they had to start
shutting down auto plants because the "warehouse" couldn't make it over the
border! Hey, it's great business sense too, but we pay for the road
maintenance...
Cheers!
--
Scott Anderson
Remove the z's for e-mail..
>
William Mc Hale
: "Mark Jones" <mej...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
One could point out that the level of damage (and hence additional upkeep
needed) done to roads by cyclists is so small that it is pretty much
impossible to calculate and even if it were possible would result in a tax
that would probably cost more to administer than it would raise in funds.
Also I suppose one could ask them if they oppose electric cars; afterall
electric cars do more damage to roads by far than bicycles (per electric
car) but other than registration fees they do not pay most of the taxes
associated with cars (i.e. fuel taxes).
--
Bill
***************************************************************************
Laughing stock - cattle with a sense of humor.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Home page - http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~wmchal1
***************************************************************************
Scott Safier
>[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
>Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
>publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Bicycles and cars don't mix
>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/columnists/vassilaros/s_8
>2631.html
First, please understand that the Tribune-Review is not known for its
unbiased and accurate reporting. It is run by Richard Mellon Scaife,
a rabid conservative and conspiracy theorist, and the editorial page
often reflects these tendencies.
It is true that the article is full of many inaccuracies. Bicycles in
PA are considered vehicles under the Motor Vehicle Code with equal
access to the roadways. This position has been upheld by the PA
Supreme Court. The writer apparently doesn't care about facts like this.
The writer is also talking about certain suburbs of the city known as
the "south hills". In a 1990 (1991?) article in Bicycling Magazine,
Pittsburgh was ranked as one of the three worst cities for cycling
because of narrow roadways and a lack of bike lanes. While the City
of Pittsburgh has come a long way since then, the suburbs have not.
It seems that this is the basis of many of the writers complaints, but
rather than adopt changes that would make the roadways safer, the
writer wants to blame the cyclists.
Lastly, I'd like to point out that Pittsburgh's economy has declined
markedly in the past 20 years because of attitudes like the writers.
In a new book by Richard Florida called _The Rise of the Creative
Class_, Florida, a professor in the Heinz School of Public Policy at
Carnegie Mellon, notes that "creative class" workers (e.g. high tech,
"gold collar" professionals, etc) tend to enjoy and participate in
outdoor activities, such as cycling. According to the book:
According to the _Lifestyle_Market_Analysis_, which looked at 15.3
million Americans and compiled by Equifax:
1) High income people (>$75,000) between 18-34 are more than twice as
likely to scuba dive, snow ski, play tennis, fly frequently, jog.
People in ths age bracket who earn <=$30,000 play video games,
horseback ride, fiddle with electronics, camp, ride a motorcycle or do
automotive work.
2) The same pattern holds for people 34-45, except the frequency is
only 1.5 times as likely to play tennis, golf, jog or enjoy wines.
3) Affluent middle-aged Americans are more likely to own a vacation
home, travel, golf, sail and attend art functions while lower income
people in the same age group spend time with grandchildren, enter
sweepstakes, sew, do needlework, collect stamps or coins, read the
Bible or engage in crafts.
"...Creative Class people...value active outdoor recreation highly.
They are drawn to places and communities where many outdoor activities
are prevalent -- both because they enjoy these activities, and because
their presence is seen as a signal that the place is amenable to the
broader creative lifestyle. The Creative Class people in my studies
are into a variety of active sports, from traditional ones like
BICYCLING, jogging, and kayaking to newer, more extreme ones like
trail running and snowboarding. My favorite, BICYCLING, has grwon
dramatically in the past few decades." yadda yadda yadda about other
countries and how things are changing in the US "For the creative
people and high-tech professionals in my field of studies, riding a
mountain bike has become a de rigueur social skill -- much as
horseback riding was for members of the old elite. And it is not just
the young. I have come across countless forty- and fifty- somethings
who are avid mountain bike riders. Quite a cultural transformation:
forty years ago the bicycle was a childish symbol of small town
squareness; today it is cool."
One key example of this tendency of "creative class" individuals is
Microsoft, where bicycle commuting and cycling trails are part of the
culture of the area. Pittsburgh has no Microsoft, instead it has
rusting and decaying steel mills and superfund sites. It's not
suprising to me that the Tribune-Review is part of the problem.
--
Scott, in Pittsburgh
http://www.pink-triangle.org/scott
Men are like a fine wine. They all start out like grapes, and it's our job
to stomp on them and keep them in the dark until they mature into
something you'd like to have dinner with.
Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle Greenway
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3d3e0eaa....@news.east.cox.net>,
<bob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:16:18 -0700, "Cycle America/Nat. Bicycle
> Greenway" <N...@bikeroute.com> wrote:
>
> >[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> > the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
> >
> >Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
> >publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Bicycles and cars don't mix
> > http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/columnists/vassilaros/s_8
2631.html
> > By Dimitri Vassilaros
> > TRIBUNE-REVIEW
> > Tuesday, July 23, 2002
> > I don't want to share the road with a bicycle. However, you and I must
> > because if we did not, it could lead to tragedy. Drivers have to follow
> > the law, but that does not mean we have to like it.
> > The Tour de France seems to have spawned the Tour de South Hills < if
> > you'll pardon my French.
<snip>
>
> Isn't this exactly the position your organization takes?
>
>
> Bob
The NBG Mission statement:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The primary objectives and purposes of the National Bicycle Greenway
(NBG) are to gather and coordinate the resources needed to create a
nationwide network of interconnected car roads (that meet its standards
for safety and efficacy) and bicycle pathways (multi-use with priority
given to transportation). The NBG will also engage in related
activities that educate the public regarding a healthful,
environmentally sound lifestyle.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's not attack each other but endeavor to illuminate those who think
ours is a an unsafe, obtrusive lifestyle. The Pittsburgh Tribune needs
to be the object of our assault and not one another. Here are, for
example, some addresses that I just got from Fritz Feline:
mailto:dvass...@tribweb.com (author of inflammatory piece)
mailto:ehar...@tribweb.com
mailto:rhar...@tribweb.com
mailto:kca...@tribweb.com
mailto:jher...@tribweb.com
mailto:cqu...@tribweb.com
mailto:amcm...@tribweb.com
mailto:fcr...@tribweb.com
mailto:tste...@tribweb.com
mailto:jora...@tribweb.com
mailto:fmy...@tribweb.com
mailto:jcu...@tribweb.com
mailto:jfi...@tribweb.com
mailto:gstei...@tribweb.com
mailto:bbrod...@tribweb.com
mailto:tbar...@tribweb.com
mailto:cmcn...@tribweb.com
mailto:dmi...@tribweb.com
mailto:smcfa...@tribweb.com
mailto:gru...@tribweb.com
mailto:rst...@tribweb.com
mailto:wl...@tribweb.com
mailto:squ...@tribweb.com
mailto:lra...@tribweb.com
mailto:ssko...@tribweb.com
mailto:psa...@tribweb.com
mailto:mdud...@tribweb.com
mailto:ksm...@tribweb.com
mailto:jku...@tribweb.com
mailto:bre...@tribweb.com
mailto:ek...@tribweb.com
mailto:mjoh...@tribweb.com
mailto:dber...@tribweb.com
mailto:jpitk...@tribweb.com
mailto:bar...@tribweb.com
mailto:cpo...@tribweb.com
mailto:rsir...@tribweb.com
mailto:mwhit...@tribweb.com
mailto:ka...@tribweb.com
mailto:ad...@tribweb.com
mailto:ckuch...@tribweb.com
mailto:kbra...@tribweb.com
mailto:rfe...@tribweb.com
mailto:am...@tribweb.com
mailto:lna...@tribweb.com
mailto:kmcg...@tribweb.com
mailto:jcor...@tribweb.com
mailto:fmu...@tribweb.com
Pete
"William Mc Hale" <wmc...@umbc7.umbc.edu> wrote
>
> One could point out that the level of damage (and hence additional upkeep
> needed) done to roads by cyclists is so small that it is pretty much
> impossible to calculate and even if it were possible would result in a tax
> that would probably cost more to administer than it would raise in funds.
ahhh...but I've heard it argued from the *evil side* that those are "Road
use" fees, instead of road maintance fees.
> Also I suppose one could ask them if they oppose electric cars; afterall
> electric cars do more damage to roads by far than bicycles (per electric
> car) but other than registration fees they do not pay most of the taxes
> associated with cars (i.e. fuel taxes).
>
and then they would state that "Electric cars can keep up with traffic. They
don't block the whole road."
Face it. There is no pleasing these fools, except for a complete ban on
bikes on the road.
Pete
William Mc Hale
: "William Mc Hale" <wmc...@umbc7.umbc.edu> wrote
:>
:> One could point out that the level of damage (and hence additional upkeep
:> needed) done to roads by cyclists is so small that it is pretty much
:> impossible to calculate and even if it were possible would result in a tax
:> that would probably cost more to administer than it would raise in funds.
: ahhh...but I've heard it argued from the *evil side* that those are "Road
: use" fees, instead of road maintance fees.
Then pedestrians should not be allowed to walk across the street? Besides
every state in the US has laws dealing with non-motorized traffic so even
if it is a road use fee, it only applies to motor-vehicles.
:> Also I suppose one could ask them if they oppose electric cars; afterall
:> electric cars do more damage to roads by far than bicycles (per electric
:> car) but other than registration fees they do not pay most of the taxes
:> associated with cars (i.e. fuel taxes).
:>
: and then they would state that "Electric cars can keep up with traffic. They
: don't block the whole road."
That is fine, but undermines the claim that cyclists don't pay gasoline
taxes.
: Face it. There is no pleasing these fools, except for a complete ban on
: bikes on the road.
We are not trying to please the fools, but persuade the majority who might
be presuaded by their foolish arguments (after all even a bright man can
believe foolish things if that is all he is exposed to).
--
Bill
***************************************************************************
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
Ron McKinnon
bigot is this:
A bike bigot will tell a motorist that his vehicle is the source
of all the world's ills.
A car bigot will tell a cyclist that he will DIE if he doesn't
get off his road.
I prefer the bike bigot's view myself.
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in
<nYp%8.211$Ky3....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
<SNIP>
><bob...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3d3e0eaa....@news.east.cox.net...
>> On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:16:18 -0700, "Cycle America/Nat.
>> >Bicycles and cars don't mix
>>
>> Isn't this exactly the position your organization takes?
>
>My thought exactly Bob. What is the difference between a car
>bigot and a bike bigot?
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________
Ron McKinnon e-mail: rmckin at magma dot ca
spam > ro...@127.0.0.1 web: http://www.magma.ca/~rmckin
Zoot Katz
bob...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>Bicycles and cars don't mix
>
>Isn't this exactly the position your organization takes?
>
>
>Bob
Busted!
--
zk
Dave Brichler
> The bicycles were here first, so it is only fair that they have
> the right to be on the road.
Kind of tangental to the thread, but wasn't the Indy 500 originally a
velotrack? There's a book I read awhile back, "Hearts of Lions", kind
of a history of bike racing if I recall. I remember finding it
fascinating to learn that cycling was THE major American spectator
sport in the late 1800's, and how many Americans, now notable for
"other" things, started out building/selling/promoting bicycles & bike
events: Henry Ford, Orville & Wilbur Wright, Cooper (tires), Curtiss
(airplanes), Davidson (motorcycles). I also seem to recall that
Spalding was a major promoter or some such of bike races, long before
he invented "America's Pastime".
Recollection's a bit vague, but you get the idea. Bike's were here
first. :)
Best,
Dave
Paul D.
50mph is the 'safe' vehicle, the 25 lb vehicle traveling 20mph is the
'dangerous' vehicle. And don't get me started on SUV owners... "oh, I
bought it because its safer!" Safer?!? safer for who? You maybe, but a
hell of a lot more dangerous for anyone or anything that may be on or near
the road while you are on it. Listen world! It is the CAR thats
dangerous. Just like a gun being dangerous, only if you are on the wrong
end of it.
It aint the bike thats dangerous...
<stepping off my soapbox... peace> Keep on riding!
-Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuckk Hubbard" <chu...@paonline.com>
Newsgroups:
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Tribune Wants Bikes OFF the Road!!
Neal L. Grotenstein
Lots of words.
Hope some of y'all are also sending notes to the article author.
Venting here is preaching to the choir.
Something concise & coherent could adjust 'tudes at this big newspaper.
It has a bigger voice than we do, so it is schmoozing time.
The article is at:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/columnists/
vassilaros/s_82631.html
(I just love 80 char+ URLs in the morning)
The article is NOT a total horror scene, so my note wasn't either.
Be nice to have this big city newspaper at least accepting us eventually.
It starts:
"I don't want to share the road with a bicycle. However, you and I must
because if we did not, it could lead to tragedy. Drivers have to follow
the law, but that does not mean we have to like it."
We've all seen worse..
Here is the author followed by others at the same paper. Quality action
from us can do some good, one editorial writer at a time. The Washington
Post's traffic writer is at least bike tolerant.
dvass...@tribweb.com (author of inflammatory piece)
Here are his colleagues:
ehar...@tribweb.com, rhar...@tribweb.com, kca...@tribweb.com,
jher...@tribweb.com, cqu...@tribweb.com, amcm...@tribweb.com,
fcr...@tribweb.com, tste...@tribweb.com, jora...@tribweb.com,
fmy...@tribweb.com, jcu...@tribweb.com, jfi...@tribweb.com,
gstei...@tribweb.com, bbrod...@tribweb.com, tbar...@tribweb.com,
cmcn...@tribweb.com, dmi...@tribweb.com, smcfa...@tribweb.com,
gru...@tribweb.com, rst...@tribweb.com, wl...@tribweb.com,
squ...@tribweb.com, lra...@tribweb.com, ssko...@tribweb.com,
psa...@tribweb.com, mdud...@tribweb.com, ksm...@tribweb.com,
jku...@tribweb.com, bre...@tribweb.com, ek...@tribweb.com,
mjoh...@tribweb.com, dber...@tribweb.com, jpitk...@tribweb.com,
bar...@tribweb.com, cpo...@tribweb.com, rsir...@tribweb.com,
mwhit...@tribweb.com, ka...@tribweb.com, ad...@tribweb.com,
ckuch...@tribweb.com, kbra...@tribweb.com, rfe...@tribweb.com,
am...@tribweb.com, lna...@tribweb.com, kmcg...@tribweb.com,
jcor...@tribweb.com, fmu...@tribweb.com
---
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a
million typewriters ... and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare."
--Blair Houghton
Neal Grotenstein
ne...@cpcug.org
www.cpcug.org/user/nealg/
Wayne SIKORSKI
Thank you for reading my swill.
As you probably can imagine, I have been inundated with e-mail the last few
days so I'm sorry it has taken so long to get back to you.
Typically I answer each electronic missive sent to me. However there are so
many lately, the only way to acknowledge each is by this standard response.
Please know that between trying to write my four columns and other news
stories this week, I have taken the time to read your e-mail and all the
others.
You probably will not be surprised to learn most readers who have taken the
time to write disagree with my position.
Alas, that is one of the occupational hazards of being a snotty burned-out
columnist.
You may want to compose a thoughtful letter about how you feel and send it
as a letter to the editor at the Trib. To get directions how to send it,
please go to:
Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings with
me.
My best,
DV
Columnist
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Wayne
Scott Safier
>The article is NOT a total horror scene, so my note wasn't either.
>Be nice to have this big city newspaper at least accepting us eventually.
As I've already pointed out, this is not a quality newspaper. As for
big city, well, it's actually a Westmoreland County (suburban
Pittsburgh) newspaper that is trying to make in-roads into
Pittsburgh's market. The main Pittsburgh newspaper is the
Post-Gazette, which is fairly bike tolerant.
Brill's content did a piece on the Tribune-Review and its biased
reporting several years ago. Unfortunately, that is no longer on the
net, but this article about the Brill's content piece is:
http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010208trib6.asp
>The Washington
>Post's
The trib is not the washington post, it is the washington times. Hope
that helps.
--
Scott
WLS
> This is they reply that I received from Mr. Vassilaros:
>
> Thank you for reading my swill.
>
> many lately, the only way to acknowledge each is by this standard response.
>
i.e. had you complained about his opinion of lifeguards at the public
pools you would have gotten the same reply.
--
To reply via email: pull out all the stops
"And it's tutti all the way folks" - P. Schickele
Guy Who Laughs At Funny Hotel Keys
newspapers - to keep newspapers from spreading their Hitlerly hate!
Dimwit Assholaros needs to remove his dog's balls from his throat, then
just croak and get out of the way so he's not hogging the world's
resources.
--
I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative!
------ http://www.todayslastword.org -------
Guy Who Laughs At Funny Hotel Keys
(Scott Safier) said:
>The trib is not the washington post, it is the washington times. Hope
>that helps.
That figures. The Washington Post is the respectable newspaper there.
The Washington Times is an organ for the spittle spewing of Sun Myung
Moon, who hates the guts of the working class. Naturally, Moon has many
allies in the fascist federal government who keep that old fossil alive
well past the average life expectancy - at the expense of the working
people he hates, who the government murders by polluting the water
supply with toxic waste and by polluting our food with genetic
engineering.
Sun Myung Moon is a scumbag and a sicko.
Our local newspaper, the Cincinnati Post, is like this too - a hate
paper that abuses freedom of the press by mocking the working class
endlessly. (The Cincinnati Enquirer is probably less sneering lately,
despite its history.)
If any working-class people had the money to start their own regular
daily newspaper, it would drive the scumbag rags out of business within
a year.
I regard the Washington Times and the Cincinnati Post (whose Covington
edition runs front-page editorials approximately once every month
praising school uniforms) to be right-wing propaganda leaflets rather
than real newspapers.
Guy Who Laughs At Funny Hotel Keys
(Scott Safier) said:
>The trib is not the washington post, it is the washington times. Hope
>that helps.
That figures. The Washington Post is the respectable newspaper there.
The Washington Times is an organ for the spittle spewing of Sun Myung
Moon, who hates the guts of the working class. Naturally, Moon has many
allies in the fascist federal government who keep him alive on life
support - a privilege not afforded to the working people he hates, who
Chris Hobbs
> Here is the author followed by others at the same paper. Quality action
> from us can do some good, one editorial writer at a time. The Washington
> Post's traffic writer is at least bike tolerant.
I'm sure they'll all appreciate the additional offers to enhance their
penile size and be able to retire quickly because of the extra spam
I'm certain they'll be getting since your posting of their
e-mail addresses on Usenet.
Chris
DrummaKid
> [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
>
> Can you believe this article? It is heartbreaking that any responsible
> publication would allow it to see the light of day. What to do??
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> 2631.html
"The roads are obviously meant to be used by [fast moving
petrol-burning transportation]" -- him
"That goatfk-r deserves to be hauled out of his car through the
passenger side window and gutted, crotch to sternum, like a rainbow
trout."--me
Notice the connection between the two statements.... They're both
opinions, and they're both irrelevant to the way things are. The
upside of cager culture is the fact that, though many people in their
cages might have vaguely similar opinions, they would never express
them. In case you didn't know, vassilaros is a pretty wonked-out
dood. I think he got a bad batch or something, anyway I've never seen
anything from him that makes much sense.
--Jordan K.
"Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand" --anonymous
Mike
truth , much less cover the news in an un-biased manner, ever.
"Guy Who Laughs At Funny Hotel Keys" <ban...@todayslastword.org> wrote in
message news:3d4177f3.3090268@localhost...
Eric S. Sande
>the truth , much less cover the news in an un-biased manner, ever.
Watergate. Oliver North. Monica Lewinsky. AOL.
Granted it's not perfect, but it's a fairly well respected paper that
serves its community.
--
_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>cwhi...@texastwr.utaustin.edu__________
Mark Jones
news:3D41DBF7...@erols.com...
> >You're kidding, right? The Washington Post hasn't seen fit to print
> >the truth , much less cover the news in an un-biased manner, ever.
>
> Watergate. Oliver North. Monica Lewinsky. AOL.
>
> Granted it's not perfect, but it's a fairly well respected paper that
> serves its community.
of the best new coverage and investigative reporters
in the business.
This can't be said of some of the publications that are
talking negative about bicycles or other subjects only so
they can increase ad revenues. They don't care about
accuracy at all.
Kyralessa
news:dXp%8.209$Ky3....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "Kyralessa" <ryan_lundy@spamless_hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8m%8.902$PG5.21...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Before anyone responds, consider whether it's worth your time to
argue
> > with a guy who whines about the fact that people in cars are
"forced" to
> > wear seat belts. Once I read this, I stopped taking him the least
bit
> > seriously.
>
> Well, if you're one of those people who want to force everyone else to
be
> "as safe" as you are then I'm afraid I can't take anything you say
> seriously.
I don't recall singlehandedly passing the seat belt laws. However, I
also don't have a problem wearing one. But my opinion is that if you
want to not wear one and risk sending your face through the windshield,
that's your business. However, I do hope you're not on the same
insurance plan as me, because it would be irritating to see my premiums
go up because someone like you was not bright enough to buckle up.
> > Do you suppose he's one of those who thinks he'll leap clear in a
car
> > accident, or is he just a wuss about how horribly painful wearing a
seat
> > belt is?
>
> Do you suppose that you ought to be able to determine the means of
death of
> others?
You may be getting at something with this comment, but it's far from
clear what.
Chuckk Hubbard
> Dimwit Assholaros needs to remove his dog's balls from his throat, then
> just croak and get out of the way so he's not hogging the world's
> resources.
lol
Robert Haston
ComutrBob
>first. :)
Not much of an argument. So were dinosaurs.
The editorial infuriates me, but most of the arguments I've read on this thread
seem like they'd come across as pretty lame to all the fatties, druggies,
alcoholics, workaholics and the like who cannot possibly understand the cyclist
mindset. Personally, I think the best thing we can do is proclaim our legal
right to the road, then behave on the road as if we belong there. In most
states, that means obeying traffic signs and signals and riding as far to the
right as possible. And it's on this last point where most everyone who hates
cyclists gets their ammo. I can't count the number of times I've been on group
rides where riders are crawling along four abreast with no regard whatsoever
for the traffic they're blocking behind them. I rarely do group rides anymore
because there's so much of this kind of thing and I'm so against it. Again, in
most states, cyclist are to ride as far to the right as is "practicable" (the
specific language here in SC). I see cyclists violating this all the time. I
see cyclists running stop signs all the time. I understand that sometimes it's
best to just clear an intersection so there are no traffic issues. But when
there are other riders following, I've seen near disaster WAY too many times.
And I live in a smaller town where there are plenty of fantastic secondary
roads for riding. There's no real reason for people to need to ride the main
arteries except for short stretches here and there. But some cyclists insist
on using these roads. Sure they have the "right," but it's still poor
judgment.
My suggestion is that we work harder at not being our own worst enemies. We're
never gonna be able to stop people in cars and some "journalists" from being
idiots.
Bob C.
Preston Crawford
> My suggestion is that we work harder at not being our own worst enemies. We're
> never gonna be able to stop people in cars and some "journalists" from being
> idiots.
>
> Bob C.
But we ARE going to be able to stop the jackasses who insist on breaking
the law? Doubtful.
Preston
Dennis P. Harris
comu...@aol.com (ComutrBob) wrote:
> Personally, I think the best thing we can do is proclaim our legal
> right to the road, then behave on the road as if we belong there. In most
> states, that means obeying traffic signs and signals and riding as far to the
> right as possible.
wrong. AS PRACTICABLE. there is a big difference, and it's
called safety.
Guy Chapman
<mfa...@onestop.mpowermail.com> wrote:
>The Washington Post hasn't seen fit to print the
>truth , much less cover the news in an un-biased manner, ever.
Harsh and unjustified, IMO. All newspapers reflect the bias of their
proprietors (hence the widespread regulatory resistance to Murdoch's
ever increasing empire) but the Post has a long and honourable
history.
Guy
===
Riding every day on a road near you (provided you live near Reading, England).
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
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