Consumers Digest Best Buys in Camping Gear
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
the April 2005 issue of Consumers Digest magazine. The feature titled
"Expert's Choice: Camping Gear" showcases the latest and best models in
the categories of backpacks, backpacking tents, family tents, sleeping
bags, and camp stoves. Each category is subdivided into 3 price
ranges; high-end, mid-range, and bargain.
Len McDougall, author of the books: The Encyclopedia of Tracks and
Scats * The Log Cabin: An Adventure * Practical Outdoor Projects * The
Field & Stream Wilderness Survival Handbook * The Snowshoe Handbook *
The Outdoors Almanac * The Complete Tracker * Practical Outdoor
Survival
Wilderness Guide/Survival Instructor, Timberwolf Wilderness Adventures,
Paradise, Michigan (906) 492-3905
bic...@charter.net
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
<snip>
I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you say?
Halcitron
Something civilized, intelligent, and with good manners, which you
would have no clue of understanding.
Perhaps you can read his post again, but at a slower pace, so it sinks
in, then you will have a second chance, if you try.
:/
bic...@charter.net
Halcitron wrote:
> bicy...@charter.net wrote:
> > Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you
say?
>
> Something civilized, intelligent, and with good manners, which you
> would have no clue of understanding.
Oh please. I've been reading his blowhard carp for years. Nothing new
except his sig gets longer.
> Perhaps you can read his post again, but at a slower pace, so it
sinks
> in, then you will have a second chance, if you try.
Even Jeffrey Dahmer had his admirers.
Halcitron
You and Jefery should do lunch someday, I hear he has a wonderful way
with liver.
:/
bic...@charter.net
Tastes like chicken.
Strider
Envy is not a virtue.
Strider
Cyli
>
>bicy...@charter.net wrote:
>> Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you say?
>
>Something civilized, intelligent, and with good manners, which you
>would have no clue of understanding.
>
He does that occasionally, just to throw us off, I think.
>Perhaps you can read his post again, but at a slower pace, so it sinks
>in, then you will have a second chance, if you try.
I tried it. Hmm. Yes, possibly a clue to some useful information, if
we want to buy the magazine. But I'll bet 10 to 1 up to 10 dollars
that he's one of the 'experts' who's done the testing. Or else his
ever growing sig file has yet another new book listed that he's
pushing.
Len's been posting on rec.backcountry for years. Generally a big
spate right after he finishes a new book. Then he gets flames from
some more expert or knowledgeable than he is and flames back and then
we ignore him and he goes away. Until his next book or ad for one of
his wilderness school things. We're used to him, but many don't like
him. Bicycle @ charter whatever is probably one who's tired of him
and his bragging and ads.
Just a hint. You don't have to take it. Read Len all you want, but
confirm stuff with knowledgeable folks before you rely on it, okay?
Some of what he says is fine (once you follow the turgid prose), but
some is kind of iffy as to reality being the base of it.
Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: cyl...@gmail.com.invalid (strip the .invalid to email)
Tim May
McDougall, Outdoor Writer <LMwr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Lots of questions here pertain to reviews of camping gear. Check out
> the April 2005 issue of Consumers Digest magazine. The feature titled
> "Expert's Choice: Camping Gear" showcases the latest and best models in
> the categories of backpacks, backpacking tents, family tents, sleeping
> bags, and camp stoves. Each category is subdivided into 3 price
> ranges; high-end, mid-range, and bargain.
Though we probably disagree on a lot of political/moral issues, I
recognize you as having probably 500 times the wilderness camping
experience that I have.
This said, when I was camping regularly about 40 years ago, we were
taught to travel very light (but we still travelled heavily, as we each
carried cooking gear, plus everyone had an axe, etc.).
I must have missed the part of Boy Scouts which emphasized things like
Dutch ovens and whatnot (prominently mentioned in varius cast iron or
Lodge sites). Instead, I remember each of us cooking in little aluminum
pans or, worse, in aluminum foil. This was gnarly, even for 1962-66.
Few things were more indigestible than a round steak bundled in the
same aluminum foil as some chopped up potatoes and carrots.
Tonight, I cooked a stir fry in a Lodge 14-inch wok, later some hash
browns in that same piece of gear. (My 10-inch Lodge skillet would
basically have sufficed, of course.) Over an induction cooktop, but it
could just as easily been over a campfire or a bed of coals. The
7-pound weight, amortized over several campers or hikers, is
reasonable.
I think the focus on "backpacking" has screwed up the priorities, which
has resulted in a lot of backpackers basically living on Powerbars and
maybe some tea or dried soup heated in titanium pans over microstoves.
Granted, if I try to "bug out" somewhere, I won't take a cast iron pan
or wok or Dutch oven with me...I'll live on trail mix, Powerbars, and
slightly-warmed Dinty Moore for the few days I'll presumably be hiking
somewhere.
But a lot is lost when weight is king.
--Tim May
bic...@charter.net
There's nothing to envy about a pompous blowhard.
Sounds like you and Len should get a room together. On second thought,
make that a *bunker*.
bic...@charter.net
His sig line in the late 90's was like one line showing where his books
could be purchased. A couple of years ago it grew to 4 lines. Now his
sig is longer than his actual post. Where will it end?
bic...@charter.net
Sorry, I don't post about black helicoptors, Nazi leaders or
bunker stockpiling.
Wolfgang
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111056063.0...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sorry, I don't post about black helicoptors, Nazi leaders or
> bunker stockpiling.
Guess what?
Wolfgang
who, if his newsreader is to be believed, has just read a post about black
helicopters, nazi leaders and bunker stockpiling.
Lady Chatterly
bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
>Sorry, I don't post about black helicoptors, Nazi leaders or
>bunker stockpiling.
Are you asking if you do not post about Black helicoptors?
--
Lady Chatterly
"She's a bot, you moron. I do hear that she's a bot with nice tits
though." -- Homerun Frogbutt
Gio Medici
bic...@charter.net
I actually wrote "dark rotary winged aircraft, Heinrich Himmler and
bomb shelter recipes." See, it's all a conspiricy and your newsreader
is right in the middle of it.
bic...@charter.net
Halcitron wrote:
> bicy...@charter.net wrote:
> > Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you
say?
>
> Something civilized, intelligent, and with good manners, which you
> would have no clue of understanding.
Hmmm...maybe I was too quick to judge Len. Maybe his promoting of the
April issue of Consumers Guide is just a sincere request that we read
about gear reviews. If it is then I will apologize to all.
> Perhaps you can read his post again, but at a slower pace, so it
sinks
> in, then you will have a second chance, if you try.
Ok, I read his post again at a slower pace. I also went to Gregory's
website and read this little tidbit:
"Temecula, CA - The Gregory Whitney pack has been recognized as "Best
Buy" in the April 2005 issue of Consumer's Digest magazine.
"Gregory products are known to be ergonomically sound, and the
Whitney is an example of this company's stated goal of creating a
'perfect fit'. No other backpack provides more adjustment points,
greater comfort over long hauls or better load stability on treacherous
terrain." Writes Len McDougall of Consumer's, "...based on our
experience, it should last a lifetime." Pack criteria included
"comfort, volume and user-friendly features"."
Hmm... seems Len was doing what he does best, blowing his own horn. Had
I not followed your advice, I would not have seen the truth about his
post. Thanks Halcitron. Looks like I won't have to apologize after all.
the Moderator
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111073807....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good call. Sounds like someone owes you an apology.
Gunner
>To be fair, I read his post again. Then I read this tidbit on Gregory's
>website:
>
>Temecula, CA - The Gregory Whitney pack has been recognized as "Best
>Buy" in the April 2005 issue of Consumer's Digest magazine.
>
>"Gregory products are known to be ergonomically sound, and the
>Whitney is an example of this company's stated goal of creating a
>'perfect fit'. No other backpack provides more adjustment points,
>greater comfort over long hauls or better load stability on treacherous
>terrain." Writes Len McDougall of Consumer's, "...based on our
>experience, it should last a lifetime." Pack criteria included
>"comfort, volume and user-friendly features".
>
>Len was doing what he does best, blowing his own horn. Now my
>impression of him is even worse than before. Thanks Halcitron for
>helping me see the light.
Cool. Now your opinion is public. Good on ya Mate.
Now piss off.
Gunner
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
Gunner
Based on the continual self promotion of your opinion...it would
appear that spam is your forte as well.
Now that you have posted a goodly number of times, subjecting us all
to your repeated opinion...Ill not have to chose between you and Len.
Len at the least, has the decency to post once or twice..then leave.
You on the other hand hang around like a hemmroid flare up.
'
bic...@charter.net
Sounds like you got your cable disconnected and missed Jerry Springer.
Take a deep breath, put down the beer and go outside and pull the weeds
from around your trailer.
bic...@charter.net
Looks like the truth has struck a nerve with the Len groupies.
>
> Now that you have posted a goodly number of times, subjecting us all
> to your repeated opinion...Ill not have to chose between you and Len.
Sounds like you two will be happy together. Better get a doublewide
trailer because Len's ego won't fit in a single.
> Len at the least, has the decency to post once or twice..then leave.
> You on the other hand hang around like a hemmroid flare up.
Your credibilty just went out the window when you used "Len" and
"decency"
in the same sentence.
Gunner
>>
>> Based on the continual self promotion of your opinion...it would
>> appear that spam is your forte as well.
>
>Looks like the truth has struck a nerve with the Len groupies.
>
>>
>> Now that you have posted a goodly number of times, subjecting us all
>> to your repeated opinion...Ill not have to chose between you and Len.
>
>Sounds like you two will be happy together. Better get a doublewide
>trailer because Len's ego won't fit in a single.
>
>
>> Len at the least, has the decency to post once or twice..then leave.
>> You on the other hand hang around like a hemmroid flare up.
>
>Your credibilty just went out the window when you used "Len" and
>"decency"
>in the same sentence.
Once again, your opinion is noted. You sound like a Left wing fringe
kook. Its that delight in diversity of opinion thing I guess....
Btw...opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one and they all
stick. Yours of course are no exception.
bic...@charter.net
Gunner wrote:
> On 17 Mar 2005 11:47:00 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Based on the continual self promotion of your opinion...it would
> >> appear that spam is your forte as well.
> >
> >Looks like the truth has struck a nerve with the Len groupies.
> >
> >>
> >> Now that you have posted a goodly number of times, subjecting us
all
> >> to your repeated opinion...Ill not have to chose between you and
Len.
> >
> >Sounds like you two will be happy together. Better get a doublewide
> >trailer because Len's ego won't fit in a single.
> >
> >
> >> Len at the least, has the decency to post once or twice..then
leave.
> >> You on the other hand hang around like a hemmroid flare up.
> >
> >Your credibilty just went out the window when you used "Len" and
> >"decency"
> >in the same sentence.
>
> Once again, your opinion is noted. You sound like a Left wing fringe
> kook. Its that delight in diversity of opinion thing I guess....
Had you done your homework, you would know what my political views are.
Traditionally, folks like yourself are left leaning and while they do
lack in the brain department, they are smart enough not to bite the
hand that feeds them, hence voting democrat. You are the anomaly, a
right-winger who relies on government support. Cheer up, only 2 weeks
to go until your next check and you can get your cable back on.
vote
Halcitron
Cyli wrote:
> Just a hint. You don't have to take it. Read Len all you want, but
> confirm stuff with knowledgeable folks before you rely on it, okay?
> Some of what he says is fine (once you follow the turgid prose), but
> some is kind of iffy as to reality being the base of it.
I sometimes do:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
http://www.equipped.org/
:/
Gunner
Which check is that? Im self employed. Seems like you dont do
homework either.
As to homework...why would I bother to check up on you? You mean as
much as a bit of gum on the sole of my boot..
You still sound like a left wing fringe kook. Since you have such a
delight in cable..enjoy yourself. I dont have cable, havent had for
15yrs, nor do I miss it. Hell..I watch about 2 hours a week.
On the other hand...you sound like someone who fills up the popcorn
bowl and sits rapt infront of Seinfield.
Wolfgang
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111069924.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Wow.......there are a LOT of idiots in this newsgroup.
Wolfgang
who may just have to stay here for a while. :)
bic...@charter.net
I did. You're a welfare bum. Saying you're "self employed" just lifts
your self esteem a little.
> As to homework...why would I bother to check up on you? You mean as
> much as a bit of gum on the sole of my boot..
Right, that's why you keep humping my posts. You can get off my leg
anytime now.
> You still sound like a left wing fringe kook. Since you have such a
> delight in cable..enjoy yourself. I dont have cable, havent had for
> 15yrs, nor do I miss it. Hell..I watch about 2 hours a week.
>
> On the other hand...you sound like someone who fills up the popcorn
> bowl and sits rapt infront of Seinfield.
"INfront" is a collaborative project space and launch pad to
Australia's best online designers. What that has to do with anything is
anyone's guess. The malt liquor must be kicking in.
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
Halcitron, Gunner, and Strider are hardly groupies of anyone. I've
known them, via the misc.survivalism NG, for about 7 years now, and,
unlike yourself and your ilk, they're among the most intelligent people
you're likely to correspond with. You'd be best advised to sit at
their feet and learn. Migwetch anishnabek.
As for getting personal with me, be grateful you can hide behind an
assumed name. For you, Cyli (silly?), et al, the advantage of a
newsgroup is that you can anonymously pretend to be something you
aren't (i.e., educated). The disadvantage is that you seriously
underestimate others because you judge them by the only frame of
reference you have, namely your bathroom mirror. I use my real name, I
readily publish my address, and I really do dance with wolves.
The people you're badmouthing have more time in the woods taking a
leak than you'll spend there in your lifetime.
Len McDougall, author of the books: The Encyclopedia of Tracks & Scats;
The Log Cabin: An Adventure; The Field & Stream Wilderness Survival
Handbook; The Snowshoe Handbook; The Complete Tracker; Practical
Outdoor Projects; Made for the Outdoors; Practical Outdoor Survival.
Survival Instructor/Wilderness Kayaking Guide, Timberwolf Wilderness
Adventures, Paradise, MI (906) 492-3905
Strider
>
>Strider wrote:
>> On 16 Mar 2005 12:39:47 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
>> ><snip>
>> >
>> >I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you
>say?
>>
>> Envy is not a virtue.
>
>There's nothing to envy about a pompous blowhard.
Perhaps if you got out from in front of that computer more often, lost
about forty pounds, and saw to some dental work, then even a sad sack
of bovine waste product like yourself might find some semblance of a
life to write about instead of snapping at people's ankles like a
mange ridden chihuahua.
Strider
Gunner
>>
>> Which check is that? Im self employed. Seems like you dont do
>> homework either.
>
>I did. You're a welfare bum. Saying you're "self employed" just lifts
>your self esteem a little.
I ask again. Which check are you referring to?
>
>
>> As to homework...why would I bother to check up on you? You mean as
>> much as a bit of gum on the sole of my boot..
>
>Right, that's why you keep humping my posts. You can get off my leg
>anytime now.
>
Like that bit of gum..its fun to scrap on the curb for a while,
watching it disintegrate. Much like you and your posts.
>
>> You still sound like a left wing fringe kook. Since you have such a
>> delight in cable..enjoy yourself. I dont have cable, havent had for
>> 15yrs, nor do I miss it. Hell..I watch about 2 hours a week.
>>
>> On the other hand...you sound like someone who fills up the popcorn
>> bowl and sits rapt infront of Seinfield.
>
>"INfront" is a collaborative project space and launch pad to
>Australia's best online designers. What that has to do with anything is
>anyone's guess. The malt liquor must be kicking in.
You drink malt liquor? Id have to say you must, in excess, if the
best you can do is a typo flame.
Lay off the booze, old quim, or at least dont post when you drink.
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
can't resist. I dunno, maybe I'm feeling mean enough today to verbally
beat up on someone who couldn't possibly put up a fight.
Baby, it ain't bragging if it's true. I make my entire living
teaching and writing about the outdoors. Every one of my paying
clients leaves satisfied that they've gotten their money's worth. I
write books to dispel the rampant ignorance that gets people killed in
the wilderness every year - you should read them all cover-to-cover.
Are you one of the "more knowledgeable" self-styled "experts" whom
you claim - incorrectly - has set me straight? That's funny, because
three book publishers, dozens of editors, and thousands of webmasters
pay me to be right - only you glass-ego wannabes feel threatened. If
I'm pulling a scam, it must be a very good one, because I've been
interviewed about what I do dozens of times by television, radio, and
newspaper reporters. You know something none of these media
professionals are smart enough to discover?
My "turgid prose" has written eight books and a thousand magazine
and newspaper articles. Please list your published credits, and I'll
be more than happy to read them. Surely you're a professional author?
I guess I should apologize for taking up so much space by listing
the titles of my books and my profession at the ends of my posts.
You're right, listing the accomplishments my hard work has netted just
takes up too much room.
Len McDougall, eater of squirrels, catcher of trout, uses minnows as
bait.
Gunner
<LMwr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Your credibilty just went out the window when you used "Len" and
>> "decency"
>> in the same sentence.
>
>Halcitron, Gunner, and Strider are hardly groupies of anyone. I've
>known them, via the misc.survivalism NG, for about 7 years now, and,
>unlike yourself and your ilk, they're among the most intelligent people
>you're likely to correspond with. You'd be best advised to sit at
>their feet and learn. Migwetch anishnabek.
> As for getting personal with me, be grateful you can hide behind an
>assumed name. For you, Cyli (silly?), et al, the advantage of a
>newsgroup is that you can anonymously pretend to be something you
>aren't (i.e., educated). The disadvantage is that you seriously
>underestimate others because you judge them by the only frame of
>reference you have, namely your bathroom mirror. I use my real name, I
>readily publish my address, and I really do dance with wolves.
> The people you're badmouthing have more time in the woods taking a
>leak than you'll spend there in your lifetime.
Well....taking a leak And a shit perhaps. Though growing up in
Northern Michigan as a Pine Prince..perhaps I did spend some time
there.
Howdy Len! Hope your winter is going well. Perhaps next year Ill try
to get home, and if I do, Ill come by and meet the wolves. It would
be my privilege to finally meet you face to face.
Wolfgang
"Winston Smith" <spam...@1stconnectREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:0kgk31dk8m90d8dlp...@4ax.com...
> ...New thread next month, 101 uses for Gunner...
Hm.......ballast......um......um........?
Wolfgang
who, like all the rest, waits in breathless anticipation.
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
"boys." We might even be raising a new wolf pup by next year. My
address and phone (see below) are public, or you can ask anyone in the
village of Paradise where the "wolf people" live. Only two roads here
- Whitefish Point Road (where I live) and M-123, so we aren't hard to
find. Give me a day's notice, and I'll make time for us to do an
outing (no charge, of course). Your choice, depending on the season:
Kayaking, fishing, dogsledding, snowshoeing, or just hiking around your
old stomping grounds. My back yard borders more than a million acres
of Lake Superior State Forest, so we can find something to do. I'll
treat you to a burger and a beer at the Yukon Inn.
Gunner
wrote:
Keep up the good work Wolgang (one of my middle names too btw) and Ill
not watch you six when the Leftist Fringe Kooks creep up on you.
Wolfgang
"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:9mhk31d13ellm0jar...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:49:56 -0600, "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Winston Smith" <spam...@1stconnectREMOVE.com> wrote in message
>>news:0kgk31dk8m90d8dlp...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> ...New thread next month, 101 uses for Gunner...
>>
>>Hm.......ballast......um......um........?
>>
>>Wolfgang
>>who, like all the rest, waits in breathless anticipation.
>>
> Keep up the good work Wolgang (one of my middle names too btw) and Ill
> not watch you six when the Leftist Fringe Kooks creep up on you.
Um......does anyone here read......uh......well, never mind. :(
Wolfgang
who recognizes english, german, greek, latin, french, portugese, spanish,
italian, tagalog, hungarian, russian, canadian, and.......evidently not
enough others.
Strider
wrote:
101 uses for Gunner:
Head shots at 800 yards.
Strider
Cyli
<LMwr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
(some snipped)
> As for getting personal with me, be grateful you can hide behind an
>assumed name. For you, Cyli (silly?), et al, the advantage of a
>newsgroup is that you can anonymously pretend to be something you
>aren't (i.e., educated).
Oh, how cute. I'm not anonymous. Everyone at my ISP knows exactly
who I am and most of them have known me for years. They're the ones
who set up my account with this username. I've used this name since
1988 or so and somewhere on the 'Net or Web is my real name.
The disadvantage is that you seriously
>underestimate others because you judge them by the only frame of
>reference you have, namely your bathroom mirror.
God, I hope not. I did give up writing when I found out I wasn't good
at it. Hmmm...
I use my real name, I
>readily publish my address,
No shit. All too often, especially when you've got any reason to
think you can profit by it.
and I really do dance with wolves.
Yeah. Captive ones, right?
> The people you're badmouthing have more time in the woods taking a
>leak than you'll spend there in your lifetime.
People? Only you, Len. And amount of time is no guarantor of being
good at what you do. I'll admit that you're adequate at giving the
newbbies to the outdoors some nice adventures. Most of your advice is
okay. It's the damn self aggrandizing I dislike. And the turgid
prose. Don't take sales as a barometer of your writing ability. Look
at Dan Brown with his dopey DaVinci Code. You're in a limited field,
got in early and continue to push yourself to editors and publishers.
Fine. So why do you need that stupid sig file? Why did you need the
whole book about living in the wilderness that got you nailed here for
being in about as much civilization as da Youper offers?
If I had to choose anyone to go into a survival situation with, I can
think of at least 3 people on here, none known to be fans of yours,
that I'd take like a shot. I couldn't choose you because one of us
would probably not survive for long. I'll admit that it would most
likely be me, but...
Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: cyl...@gmail.com.invalid (strip the .invalid to email)
Strider
wrote:
***snip***
>Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
>H. L. Mencken
There are times when you hit the nail on the head.
Strider
Strider
wrote:
Let me know. I'll show up.
I think it's about time.
Strider
Strider
<LMwr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Forget the ankle biters.
Are you aware of the wolf project her in Tennessee?
http://www.wolfsource.org/baysmt.html
Strier
Gunner
Gunner
Drop that down to 600. I need new glasses. Shrug.
Gunner
wrote:
>
>If I had to choose anyone to go into a survival situation with, I can
>think of at least 3 people on here, none known to be fans of yours,
>that I'd take like a shot. I couldn't choose you because one of us
>would probably not survive for long. I'll admit that it would most
>likely be me, but...
Indeed. Always remember to watch your six.
Now that we have a complete discourse on your opinion of Len, who
actually does walk the walk...., I wonder if perhaps we should all
line up and discuss if you only talk the talk.
Whatch think? Or are you done promoting YOUR opinions?
Hummm?
Sisu....think Sisu
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
intelligent fight. You really haven't got the slightest idea of which
you speak, do you? Are you my (thank God) ex-wife?
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer
intelligent fight. You really haven't got the slightest idea of which
you speak, do you? Are you my (thank God) ex-wife?
Len McDougall, author of the books: The Encyclopedia of Tracks & Scats;
Cyli
<LMwr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Sheesh, now I really do feel guilty - I thought you'd put up a more
>intelligent fight. You really haven't got the slightest idea of which
>you speak, do you? Are you my (thank God) ex-wife?
No, and I thank god for that, too.
heynony
McDougall, Outdoor Writer <LMwr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I don't usually engage in a battle of wits
Understandably. But we certainly thank you for making the entertaining
effort here.
> My "turgid prose" has written eight books and a thousand magazine
> and newspaper articles ... you should read [all my books] cover-to-cover
Cannot be done. Absolutely _cannot_ be done.
> thousands of webmasters pay me to be right
While there are certainly thousands of stupid webmasters around,
nothing about you suggests you have the organizational ability to get
_all_ of them writing you checks at the same time. A Lincoln quote
comes to mind, about fooling some of the people some of the time.
> I guess I should apologize for taking up so much space by listing
> the titles of my books and my profession at the ends of my posts
That might have been a useful conclusion for you to have arrived at
some years ago. Len, you are not totally worthless; you're probably
among the most useful 25% of posters here over the years, and your
accuracy batting average is better than average. It's the "kick me"
sign that raises the hackles.
> Len McDougall, eater of squirrels, catcher of trout, uses minnows as
> bait
I like it! Good work. I would have made the third item of the sequence
parallel, but good work nonetheless.
bic...@charter.net
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
> > Gunner wrote:
<snip>.
> >
> > Your credibilty just went out the window when you used "Len" and
> > "decency"
> > in the same sentence.
>
> Halcitron, Gunner, and Strider are hardly groupies of anyone. I've
> known them, via the misc.survivalism NG, for about 7 years now,
Exactly, you're proving my point. Keep going...
> unlike yourself and your ilk, they're among the most intelligent
people
> you're likely to correspond with. You'd be best advised to sit at
> their feet and learn. Migwetch anishnabek.
Doubt it. I've had more intesting and knowledgable conversations
with the girl who wipes the tables at the local McDonalds. Why?
Because she's genuine. She isn't constantly trying to impress people.
She's a humble, sincere person, not a ego-driven blowhard.
> As for getting personal with me, be grateful you can hide behind
an
> assumed name.
Nope, I'm not hiding under anything. My full name, where I live and
even where I work are all in the archives as are my previous exchanges
with you in years past. Nothing anonymous about me. On Usenet as in
real life, when you're so busy talking about yourself, you can't hear
what others are saying.
> For you, Cyli (silly?), et al, the advantage of a
> newsgroup is that you can anonymously pretend to be something you
> aren't (i.e., educated).
Looks like Len hates women too. Too bad. Cyli is a kind, knowledgable
woman who doesn't feel the need to brag 24/7. You might want to sit at
her feet and learn a thing or two about humility
> The disadvantage is that you seriously
> underestimate others because you judge them by the only frame of
> reference you have, namely your bathroom mirror. I use my real name,
I
> readily publish my address, and I really do dance with wolves.
Wolves belong in their natural enviroment, not in your backyard.
> The people you're badmouthing have more time in the woods taking a
> leak than you'll spend there in your lifetime.
Not even close, Lennyboy.
>
> Len McDougall, Blowhard.
>
bic...@charter.net
Strider wrote:
> On 17 Mar 2005 02:00:31 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Strider wrote:
> >> On 16 Mar 2005 12:39:47 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
> >> ><snip>
> >> >
> >> >I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you
> >say?
> >>
> >> Envy is not a virtue.
> >
> >There's nothing to envy about a pompous blowhard.
>
> Perhaps if you got out from in front of that computer more often,
lost
> about forty pounds, and saw to some dental work, then even a sad sack
> of bovine waste product like yourself might find some semblance of a
> life to write about instead of snapping at people's ankles like a
> mange ridden chihuahua.
And that would make me envy a pompous blowhard? That's my leg you're
humping, not Gunner's.
bic...@charter.net
Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
> can't resist.
First rule of engagement would be to quote who you're battling with.
Looks like you lost already.
bic...@charter.net
Gunner wrote:
>
>
> Howdy Len! Hope your winter is going well. Perhaps next year Ill
try
> to get home, and if I do, Ill come by and meet the wolves. It would
> be my privilege to finally meet you face to face.
And slip him the tongue!
Old Yooper
"Cyli" <cyl...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:u4kk31tbruhomrq8l...@4ax.com...
It's Yooper, not Youper. A resident of the UP >>> Yooper. Someone who was
here before most of the roads were paved, and still remembers visiting the
anti-aircraft gun emplacements at the locks, when they were still manned, is
an Old Yooper. Anyone who is an old Yooper would actually remember
wilderness in the UP. Maybe 40 or 50 years ago, or more. Today, there is no
WILDERNESS around Paradise anymore.
da Old Yooper
bic...@charter.net
Old Yooper wrote:
> "Cyli" <cyl...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
> > whole book about living in the wilderness that got you nailed here
for
> > being in about as much civilization as da Youper offers?
>
> It's Yooper, not Youper. A resident of the UP >>> Yooper. Someone who
was
> here before most of the roads were paved, and still remembers
visiting the
> anti-aircraft gun emplacements at the locks, when they were still
manned, is
> an Old Yooper. Anyone who is an old Yooper would actually remember
> wilderness in the UP. Maybe 40 or 50 years ago, or more. Today, there
is no
> WILDERNESS around Paradise anymore.
They (youpers, yoopers) spell it both ways.
Yooper (also spelled "youper": someone from ever further up-nort than
you. (To be a true Youper, you have to come from the Youper Peninsula
of Michigan.)
Old Yooper
> On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:04:26 -0600, Cyli <cyl...@gmail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>If I had to choose anyone to go into a survival situation with, I can
>>think of at least 3 people on here, none known to be fans of yours,
>>that I'd take like a shot. I couldn't choose you because one of us
>>would probably not survive for long. I'll admit that it would most
>>likely be me, but...
>
> Indeed. Always remember to watch your six.
>
> Now that we have a complete discourse on your opinion of Len, who
> actually does walk the walk...., I wonder if perhaps we should all
> line up and discuss if you only talk the talk.
>
> Whatch think? Or are you done promoting YOUR opinions?
>
> Hummm?
>
> Sisu....think Sisu
So, you're a UP Finn? Carl Pellonpaa talked about Sisu for many years on
Sunday morning on Channel Six. My cousin is 78 and still lives on the family
farm just off the Liminga Road, over in the Copper Country. He still talks
about Sisu. Of the approximately three hundred thousand people who live in
the UP something like a quarter are 1st or 2nd generation Finn. Most of them
still know about Sisu. Some of the old timers can still talk pretty good
Finn. My aunt still bakes squeeky cheese in her oven, and she knows all
about Sisu..
No amount of remembering Sisu is going to make any wilderness reappear
around Paradise, Michigan. My opinion, but also fact. Don't believe me, then
go have a look for yourself.
Hint. Want a decent pizza. Try the Malamute Saloon in Kinross. Want to get a
few hoots, and a free beer. Go around the bar on a Saturday night a mention
McDougall, Paradise and wilderness all in the same sentence.
Another hint about the UP. The largest concentration of wolves in the UP
right now is not in McDougall's backyard, but around the east shore of Lake
Gogebic.
da Old Yooper
Old Yooper
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111157798.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Old Yooper wrote:
>> "Cyli" <cyl...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
>
>> > whole book about living in the wilderness that got you nailed here
> for
>> > being in about as much civilization as da Youper offers?
>>
>> It's Yooper, not Youper. A resident of the UP >>> Yooper. Someone who
> was
>> here before most of the roads were paved, and still remembers
> visiting the
>> anti-aircraft gun emplacements at the locks, when they were still
> manned, is
>> an Old Yooper. Anyone who is an old Yooper would actually remember
>> wilderness in the UP. Maybe 40 or 50 years ago, or more. Today, there
> is no
>> WILDERNESS around Paradise anymore.
>
> They (youpers, yoopers) spell it both ways.
No we don't. I'm looking out my window at the UP as I type this.
>
> Yooper (also spelled "youper": someone from ever further up-nort than
> you. (To be a true Youper, you have to come from the Youper Peninsula
> of Michigan.)
You can't get much further north in the UP than here. I AM from the Yooper
Peninsula. How did you miss dat?
da Old Yooper
>
bic...@charter.net
Old Yooper wrote:
> <bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:1111157798.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Old Yooper wrote:
> >> "Cyli" <cyl...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
> >
> >> > whole book about living in the wilderness that got you nailed
here
> > for
> >> > being in about as much civilization as da Youper offers?
> >>
> >> It's Yooper, not Youper. A resident of the UP >>> Yooper. Someone
who
> > was
> >> here before most of the roads were paved, and still remembers
> > visiting the
> >> anti-aircraft gun emplacements at the locks, when they were still
> > manned, is
> >> an Old Yooper. Anyone who is an old Yooper would actually remember
> >> wilderness in the UP. Maybe 40 or 50 years ago, or more. Today,
there
> > is no
> >> WILDERNESS around Paradise anymore.
> >
> > They (youpers, yoopers) spell it both ways.
>
> No we don't. I'm looking out my window at the UP as I type this.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but there are those from the UP
that spell it youper. Whether they are right or wrong would be a matter
of opinion
since it is a slang word.
<http://rivrdog.typepad.com/paratus/2004/11/paratus_bloghom.html>
The definition I supplied below is from a web search. They also said it
was spelled both ways.
> > Yooper (also spelled "youper": someone from ever further up-nort
than
> > you. (To be a true Youper, you have to come from the Youper
Peninsula
> > of Michigan.)
>
> You can't get much further north in the UP than here. I AM from the
Yooper
> Peninsula. How did you miss dat?
I've only been as far as Escanaba. An annual trip to haul Christmas
trees back to Memphis. Not too much fun to be on a layover there with a
tractor-trailer for a vehicle.
Old Yooper
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111167067.1...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Might be spelled that way, but believe me, to us Yoopers it's wrong. Here is
the site of our official diplomats, and they know more about how to spell
it, make fun of it, and sing about it, than anybody else up here... ;-)
BTW, the *Old* in Old Yooper doesn't mean *ex* Yooper, it means I just grew
*Old* living here.
da Old Yooper
Gunner
>
>Looks like Len hates women too. Too bad. Cyli is a kind, knowledgable
>woman who doesn't feel the need to brag 24/7. You might want to sit at
>her feet and learn a thing or two about humility
We really dont give a shit about humility. Survival is what we are
concerned with.
Now sitting around the fondue pot contemplating our belly buttons and
being humble really ranks pretty low on the survival scale.
Can Cyli make a fish trap? Can Cyli make a deadfall able to kill a
bear?
Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary with
just the contents of her car?
Get back to me when you have something intelligent to say. And stop
pushing your opinion. You look like a blowhard.
Gunner
Bye wanker.
<plink>
the Moderator
> On 18 Mar 2005 05:55:27 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Looks like Len hates women too. Too bad. Cyli is a kind, knowledgable
> >woman who doesn't feel the need to brag 24/7. You might want to sit at
> >her feet and learn a thing or two about humility
>
> We really dont give a shit about humility. Survival is what we are
> concerned with.
Nothing could be more obvious.
Gunner
Yes and? Define wilderness and please let us know if it will kill you
any faster than the area around Paradise if you are piss poor
prepared.
I now live in the high desert of California. Quite a change, eh? It
will still kill you just as fast as the Mojave will, if you have your
head up your ass.
I personally have read most if not all of Lens books. And they are
written for the newby, the amature, the folks who most need the
lessons. Interesting writing style. Well written for the most part.
Acceptable fare for those who dont live in the middle of the swamp.
I dont see you, or that buffoon Bicycle publishing anything. Or
should I be looking under some assumed byline?
Have I personally learned anything I could put to good use in Lens
books? A few things. But then..I live in the desert, not the woods.
Care to come survive in my world? Come on out in mid August, we can
saddle up and go play in the high lonesomes for a week or two.
I suggest something with an SPF of at least 30.
Old Yooper
Never said the area around Paradise wouldn't kill a person. Never said it
wasn't rough country. Never said McDougall's books weren't good. I, as do a
lot of others, just have a problem when somebody is selling a place as
wilderness when the air photos show logging roads, clear cuts and landings,
all over the place. North, west and south of Paradise.
>
> I now live in the high desert of California. Quite a change, eh? It
> will still kill you just as fast as the Mojave will, if you have your
> head up your ass.
Won't argue that at all. Never believed otherwise.
>
> I personally have read most if not all of Lens books. And they are
> written for the newby, the amature, the folks who most need the
> lessons. Interesting writing style. Well written for the most part.
> Acceptable fare for those who dont live in the middle of the swamp.
> I dont see you, or that buffoon Bicycle publishing anything. Or
> should I be looking under some assumed byline?
There's people who need to tout their accomplishments, and then there are
those who are quietly competent. It's not hard to tell the difference.
>
> Have I personally learned anything I could put to good use in Lens
> books? A few things. But then..I live in the desert, not the woods.
> Care to come survive in my world? Come on out in mid August, we can
> saddle up and go play in the high lonesomes for a week or two.
You assume I haven't been there, done that. High desert, north of Vegas, and
west of Beatty (I sure you know how hot that can be). Eighteen months. Loved
it.
da Old Yooper
bic...@charter.net
Gunner wrote:
> On 18 Mar 2005 05:55:27 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Looks like Len hates women too. Too bad. Cyli is a kind,
knowledgable
> >woman who doesn't feel the need to brag 24/7. You might want to sit
at
> >her feet and learn a thing or two about humility
>
> We really dont give a shit about humility. Survival is what we are
> concerned with.
Of course you are. Right-wing extremists are known for that sort of
paraniod
behaviour as I'm sure you'll continue to prove.
> Now sitting around the fondue pot contemplating our belly buttons and
> being humble really ranks pretty low on the survival scale.
Exhibit A: Cannot even contemplate any thing other than "survivalism".
> Can Cyli make a fish trap? Can Cyli make a deadfall able to kill a
> bear?
I'm pretty sure she can do the fish trap thing. I doubt the bear is on
her to-do list though.
Exhibit B: Gunner must constantly think of ways to kill in order to
"survive".
> Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary with
> just the contents of her car?
Is she planning a trip there?
Exhibit C: Gunner makes up stupid scenarios to instill fear in others
in an attempt to sway them into jumping on the "survivalism" bandwagon.
David Koresh did the same thing.
> Get back to me when you have something intelligent to say. And stop
> pushing your opinion. You look like a blowhard.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
> Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
> H. L. Mencken
Exhibit D: Whacko, right-wing extremist sig line.
Verdict: Cukoo!
bic...@charter.net
Gunner wrote:
> On 18 Mar 2005 06:07:26 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
> >
> >Gunner wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Howdy Len! Hope your winter is going well. Perhaps next year Ill
> >try
> >> to get home, and if I do, Ill come by and meet the wolves. It
would
> >> be my privilege to finally meet you face to face.
> >
> >And slip him the tongue!
>
>
> Bye wanker.
>
> <plink>
>
Exhibit E: Raising the white flag. Pussy.
bic...@charter.net
> >
> > The definition I supplied below is from a web search. They also
said it
> > was spelled both ways.
> >
> >> > Yooper (also spelled "youper": someone from ever further up-nort
> > than
> >> > you. (To be a true Youper, you have to come from the Youper
> > Peninsula
> >> > of Michigan.)
>
> Might be spelled that way, but believe me, to us Yoopers it's wrong.
Here is
> the site of our official diplomats, and they know more about how to
spell
> it, make fun of it, and sing about it, than anybody else up here...
;-)
>
> http://www.dayoopers.com/
>
> BTW, the *Old* in Old Yooper doesn't mean *ex* Yooper, it means I
just grew
> *Old* living here.
Looks like those other spellers need an ass kickin' then.
bic...@charter.net
Gunner wrote:
> I now live in the high desert of California.
I'm sure you won't mind me posting a picture of your high desert home.
myal
Looks like they got under your skin hey ?
bic...@charter.net
More like they got bitch-slapped.
Wolfgang
"Old Yooper" <oldy...@biglake.com> wrote in message
news:d1fgr...@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> ...just have a problem when somebody is selling a place as wilderness when
Still, ya just gotta admire all them wilderness survival experts......ainna?
I mean, yeah, it ain't exactly "wilderness", but there isn't a Pizza Hut
within miles of Paynesville! :)
Wolfgang
who once stayed out all night.......in the dark.......alone. :(
Wolfgang
> ...Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary with
> just the contents of her car?...
Wow! You can survive in a wilderness for two days in February with nothing
more than the contents of your car??!! Wow!
Wolfgang
you guys slay me.......honestly. :)
bic...@charter.net
Sounds like you should be the one writing a book!
bic...@charter.net
Wolfgang wrote:
> "Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> news:bc9m315cv1u0qh56e...@4ax.com...
> > ...Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary
with
> > just the contents of her car?...
>
> Wow! You can survive in a wilderness for two days in February with
nothing
> more than the contents of your car??!! Wow!
We could go for at least a week eating the chicken McNuggets the kids
have dropped under the seat. I've even got some ketchup packets in the
glovebox.
Wolfgang
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111194922.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I did. You just read it.
Wolfgang
hey!......lookit me!.....i'm famous!
Wolfgang
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111195031.5...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Most people don't appreciate the importance of a big family (and thus a big
car) to winter survival in a roadless wilderness like the U.P.
Wolfgang
who most certainly does.
Gunner
<oldy...@biglake.com> wrote:
>
>There's people who need to tout their accomplishments, and then there are
>those who are quietly competent. It's not hard to tell the difference.
Hint...Len is an author. He makes part of his living selling his
books. Lets see Proctor and Gamble sell any products by not
advertising their Bigger/More Improved/Better items
I think Len does well. Self promotion is exactly what any salesman and
any decent author does so his books sell. Based on what Ive seen so
far, he doesnt go beyond the bounds, doesnt promise pie in the sky and
so forth. So he is doing Exactly as he is supposed to do.
>
>>
>> Have I personally learned anything I could put to good use in Lens
>> books? A few things. But then..I live in the desert, not the woods.
>> Care to come survive in my world? Come on out in mid August, we can
>> saddle up and go play in the high lonesomes for a week or two.
>
>You assume I haven't been there, done that. High desert, north of Vegas, and
>west of Beatty (I sure you know how hot that can be). Eighteen months. Loved
>it.
>
Lets try for 30 yrs. Perhaps some July claim digging outside of
Needles might be right up your alley.
Gunner
>da Old Yooper
Gunner
wrote:
Two days? Blink blink...pay my wages and we can play for the whole
winter. Then when you think you are nice and gnarly...lets go up to
the Northwest Territories and survey a couple hundred miles of
pipeline right of way. Ill bring the .375 H&H I took the last time,
just to keep the bears honest. Think you can pack for 9 months?
bic...@charter.net
Gunner wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:12:27 -0600, "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> >news:bc9m315cv1u0qh56e...@4ax.com...
> >> ...Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary
with
> >> just the contents of her car?...
> >
> >Wow! You can survive in a wilderness for two days in February with
nothing
> >more than the contents of your car??!! Wow!
> >
> >Wolfgang
> >you guys slay me.......honestly. :)
> >
> Two days? Blink blink...pay my wages and we can play for the whole
> winter. Then when you think you are nice and gnarly...lets go up to
> the Northwest Territories and survey a couple hundred miles of
> pipeline right of way. Ill bring the .375 H&H I took the last time,
> just to keep the bears honest. Think you can pack for 9 months?
Put your dick back in your pants Lil' Gunner. No one gives a shit what
you've done.
Cyli
wrote:
>On 18 Mar 2005 05:55:27 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>
(snipped)
I snipped all of bicycle's stuff and your remarks directly to him, but
I'll answer the stuff he almost certainly doesn't know.
> Survival is what we are
>concerned with.
>
>Now sitting around the fondue pot contemplating our belly buttons and
>being humble really ranks pretty low on the survival scale.
Um, I don't think I qualify as humble. I really don't.
You know, I've never made but one fondue in my life. It was pretty
good, but there are easier ways to cook good or decent food.
>Can Cyli make a fish trap?
Yeah, it'd take me a while to find the willows and to make the strands
from inner tree bark, but, given the time in summer, I could. Moving
some rocks around on a stream bed to augment the trap would take work,
too. I could make if faster if I could use fishing line instead of
inner bark strands. Would depend on the survival need which I'd
choose. I might prefer to make a net, though.
>Can Cyli make a deadfall able to kill a
>bear?
Much iffier. And I'd have to be sure I wanted to. Nasty to waste a
whole bear on just one person unless I really needed the fat. I'd
more likely do a pitfall with spikes if I wanted a bear. And then
hope I'd made the platform strong enough that no skunk or wolverine
would break through. I could certainly do a dead fall that'd be big
enough to get a raccoon and probably one for a deer.
.
>
>Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary with
>just the contents of her car?
Maybe not with the car (maybe even so), but with the truck. But what
would I be doing with my car up there in winter?
Not for more than a week, most likely. I'm a weenie, so I'd not be
happy, but I'd almost certainly be alive if it weren't less than -20 F
at night and less then -10 F in the day average. But I think most
Minnesotans who ever venture out of the city can and should be able to
do that. It's easy to pop a sleeping bag and / or down coat and some
end remnant fleece into the trunk or pickup bed and leave it there.
In the truck bed I've got freeze dried food and a stove, so I'd be
okay if I paid attention and didn't run the truck often to keep warm.
By the end of two weeks, I'd have reread the emergency book / books
(usably SF) and all my maps and fishing and boating regs so often the
first thing I'd probably ask a rescuer for after begging them to turn
their vehicle heater up would be something to read. An aspirin bottle
label, anything. Anything. Yes, even what you're thinking of...
Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: cyl...@gmail.com.invalid (strip the .invalid to email)
Gunner
wrote:
Good girl! Then you would do to ride the river with. My compliments
Old Yooper
<bic...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1111194922.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
>> "Old Yooper" <oldy...@biglake.com> wrote in message
>> news:d1fgr...@news4.newsguy.com...
>> >
>> > ...just have a problem when somebody is selling a place as
> wilderness when
>> > the air photos show logging roads, clear cuts and landings, all
> over the
>> > place...
>>
>> Still, ya just gotta admire all them wilderness survival
> experts......ainna?
>> I mean, yeah, it ain't exactly "wilderness", but there isn't a Pizza
> Hut
>> within miles of Paynesville! :)
This is true. Since the general store in Paynesville burned down last year,
and the one in Kenton the year before, it's miles to anything, unless you're
into roadkill.
da Old Yooper
Wolfgang
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:12:27 -0600, "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>>news:bc9m315cv1u0qh56e...@4ax.com...
>>> ...Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary with
>>> just the contents of her car?...
>>
>>Wow! You can survive in a wilderness for two days in February with
>>nothing
>>more than the contents of your car??!! Wow!
>>
>>Wolfgang
>>you guys slay me.......honestly. :)
>>
> Two days? Blink blink...pay my wages and we can play for the whole
> winter.
Well......gosh......"mid February" is evidently a lot longer in your
neighborhood than it is here.
> Then when you think you are nice and gnarly...lets go up to
> the Northwest Territories and survey a couple hundred miles of
> pipeline right of way. Ill bring the .375 H&H I took the last time,
> just to keep the bears honest. Think you can pack for 9 months?
How large a car do I get?
Wolfgang
who reflects that while it is probably fortunate that being a survivalist
doesn't require literacy, being possessed thereof might preclude the need to
wrassle bars bear-handed in the first place.
Old Yooper
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:22:45 -0500, "Old Yooper"
> <oldy...@biglake.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>There's people who need to tout their accomplishments, and then there are
>>those who are quietly competent. It's not hard to tell the difference.
>
> Hint...Len is an author. He makes part of his living selling his
> books. Lets see Proctor and Gamble sell any products by not
> advertising their Bigger/More Improved/Better items
If it says "beans" on the can, I expect it to be beans. If the ad says
"wilderness"...
>
> I think Len does well. Self promotion is exactly what any salesman and
> any decent author does so his books sell. Based on what Ive seen so
> far, he doesnt go beyond the bounds, doesnt promise pie in the sky and
> so forth. So he is doing Exactly as he is supposed to do.
Just so I understand your point correctly, is advertising wilderness trips
to paying clients, that then take place in a non-wilderness area, to be
considered acceptable advertising "promotion" and within your acceptable
bounds? Your contention is that writing about wilderness adventures that
took place in relatively "civilized" surroundings is acceptable self
promotion? Is his definition of wilderness within your bounds? Should that
definition, if it is acceptable to you, be within everyone's bounds?
I guess one person's logging roads, clear cuts and landings can be another
person's wilderness experience. Promoting it as such, and getting somebody
to pay $100 to see it, is pretty darn good salesmanship.
"you'll be mushing through the snow-hushed wilderness of Lake Superior State
Forest"
http://groups.msn.com/TimberwolfWildernessAdventures/abouttimberwolfwildernessadventures.msnw
da Old Yooper
bic...@charter.net
How can you take seriously an ad that says "If you liked the movie Snow
Dogs".
That tells me everything I need to know.
Gunner
wrote:
>
>"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>news:8a7n31pmbai8dp9hk...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:12:27 -0600, "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>>>news:bc9m315cv1u0qh56e...@4ax.com...
>>>> ...Can Cyli survive in the Superior National forest in mid Febuary with
>>>> just the contents of her car?...
>>>
>>>Wow! You can survive in a wilderness for two days in February with
>>>nothing
>>>more than the contents of your car??!! Wow!
>>>
>>>Wolfgang
>>>you guys slay me.......honestly. :)
>>>
>> Two days? Blink blink...pay my wages and we can play for the whole
>> winter.
>
>Well......gosh......"mid February" is evidently a lot longer in your
>neighborhood than it is here.
>
Did I indicate a stop time?
>> Then when you think you are nice and gnarly...lets go up to
>> the Northwest Territories and survey a couple hundred miles of
>> pipeline right of way. Ill bring the .375 H&H I took the last time,
>> just to keep the bears honest. Think you can pack for 9 months?
>
>How large a car do I get?
Car? None.
Gunner
>
>Wolfgang
>who reflects that while it is probably fortunate that being a survivalist
>doesn't require literacy, being possessed thereof might preclude the need to
>wrassle bars bear-handed in the first place.
>
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
Wolfgang
Do you wear your face paint, frizzy hairpiece, size 88 shoes and bulbous red
rubber nose ball in transit to and from.....or just while in camp? :)
Wolfgang
who, lest there be any misunderstanding among the semi-literate, hastens to
add that the question is rhetorical.
Strider
wrote:
>"Halcitron" <halc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>bicy...@charter.net wrote:
>>> Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you say?
>>
>>Something civilized, intelligent, and with good manners, which you
>>would have no clue of understanding.
>>
>>Perhaps you can read his post again, but at a slower pace, so it sinks
>>in, then you will have a second chance, if you try.
>>
>>:/
>
>What sinks in is the obvious marketing motive. Again.
>
>Gio
and your issue with a marketing motive that specifically pertains, and
is allowed under the carter of, this news group is what?
Strider
Strider
wrote:
Was that your way of letting us all know that you aren't up to the
challenge?
Strider
Strider
>
>Strider wrote:
>> On 17 Mar 2005 02:00:31 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Strider wrote:
>> >> On 16 Mar 2005 12:39:47 -0800, bic...@charter.net wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Len McDougall, Outdoor Writer wrote:
>> >> ><snip>
>> >> >
>> >> >I'm sorry, I fell asleep in the middle of your sig. What did you
>> >say?
>> >>
>> >> Envy is not a virtue.
>> >
>> >There's nothing to envy about a pompous blowhard.
>>
>> Perhaps if you got out from in front of that computer more often,
>lost
>> about forty pounds, and saw to some dental work, then even a sad sack
>> of bovine waste product like yourself might find some semblance of a
>> life to write about instead of snapping at people's ankles like a
>> mange ridden chihuahua.
>
>And that would make me envy a pompous blowhard?
Yes it does.
>That's my leg you're humping, not Gunner's.
I wouldn't hump anything you've got, blowhard.
Strider
>
>
>> >
>> >Sounds like you and Len should get a room together. On second
>thought,
>> >make that a *bunker*.
Wolfgang
"Strider" <str...@usit.net> wrote in message
news:obro31dh4irje60t4...@4ax.com...
Is this your way of confessing to a more or less wide audience that you
believe someone was actually issuing a serious challenge to survey a couple
hundred miles of pipeline right of way in the Northwest Territories of
Canada? :)
Wolfgang
who hereby challenges all and sundry to a round the world blindfold belly
boat race...........c'mon ya sissies!
Gunner
wrote:
Granted, with the oversized air insulated inflatable "mickey mouse"
boots, the beard, and the -40 degree weather, one may be considered a
bit Clownish...walking/snowshoeing a survey line for seismograph or
pipeline work in the winter in the Northwest Territories..and
preferably wearing bright orange or other colored coats/snow suits
makes one a bit outre in appearance.
But..then Im sure you wouldn't have much experience with the subject.
Yawn. Been there, done that. Still have deformed toes from a case of
frostbite gotten after falling through ice over a shallow pond and not
getting dried out fast enough. Shrug. When you are a kid..you think
you will live forever.
Btw...care to discuss what Sisu means?
Gunner
>who, lest there be any misunderstanding among the semi-literate, hastens to
>add that the question is rhetorical.
>
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
Gunner
An example of Sisu...
Toivo and Arnie were Finn soldiers fighting against the Russians in
the 1939 Winter War.
Toivo looked over at Arnie and told him they were in trouble, as they
were outnumbered 10 to one.
Arnie thought a moment, then check his ammo pouches, and pulled his
pukko (knife) and started stropping the edge.
He stropped and pondered for a couple minutes..then asked:
"how we gonna bury all the Russians?"
Sisu is a unique Finnish concept. It stands for the philosophy that
what must be done will be done, regardless of what it takes. Sisu is a
special strength and persistent determination and resolve to continue
and overcome in the moment of adversity…an almost magical quality, a
combination of stamina, perserverance, courage, and determination held
in reserve for hard times.
In the past Finns were obliged to struggle against nature and against
foreign intruders. Despite all of the drawbacks along the way, the
struggle gave a lot of strength. The early settlers found inspiration
in the Finnish landscape, sky and in mythological heroes who taught
them that it was possible to overcome obstacles. In more recent times
the same sources have been the basic source of inspiration for
athletes, artists, designers and architects who have made Finland
known to the world.
Our two soldiers were part of the Finnish army..an army the Russians
called the "White Death", in fear and respect.
Gunner
Wolfgang
> Granted, with the oversized air insulated inflatable "mickey mouse"
> boots, the beard, and the -40 degree weather, one may be considered a
> bit Clownish...
With or without.
> walking/snowshoeing a survey line for seismograph or
> pipeline work in the winter in the Northwest Territories..and
> preferably wearing bright orange or other colored coats/snow suits
> makes one a bit outre in appearance.
Heroes are stacking up so fast in this place I'm having a hard time figuring
out where to stack them.
> But..then Im sure you wouldn't have much experience with the subject.
"The subject"? Which subject would that
be....walking......snowshoeing....surveying....seismography....pipelines....work....winter....NWT....wearing
orange....coats.....snow suits.....or looking clownish in front of a vast
audience?
> Yawn. Been there, done that.
Tedious, huh? Not like your REAL adventures, huh?
> Still have deformed toes from a case of
> frostbite gotten after falling through ice over a shallow pond and not
> getting dried out fast enough.
Well now, there's a ringing endorsement of one's own outdoorsy skills if I
ever did see one. :)
> Shrug. When you are a kid..you think
> you will live forever.
Not me. I just hope to live long enough to get that car you promised. My
Mom won't let me drive hers.......well, not till I get my driver's liscense,
anyway. :(
> Btw...care to discuss what Sisu means?
Mmmmmm.......nope.
Wolfgang
Wolfgang
>
> An example of Sisu...
>
>
> Toivo and Arnie
"Arnie"?!
Hee, hee, hee.......you don't tell Toivo so good. :)
Wolfgang
Strider
wrote:
If you pay his way, as he said, he'll go.
Strider
Wolfgang
> If you pay his way, as he said, he'll go.
>
> Strider
Sure he will. And you're a mighty (if momentarily in mufti) hero from a
book* you never could get through. :)
Wolfgang
*yeah, the movies were based on books......um......paper with words
printe.....uh......well, never mind.