First time Backpacker--Getting Started
bva...@gmail.com
the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
"long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
thru hike.
How much should I expect to spend buying gear for 1 week trips?
How much consideration should I give to lightweight types of camping?
Should I choose a down or synthetic sleeping bag?
What type of tent should I choose?
How cold should my sleeping bag be rated?
What type of stove should I buy?
Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
I've already ordered a few good books from Amazon.com. What's the best
way to gain the experience I need to be successful at this new hobby?
bva...@gmail.com
happy.wh...@spokane.wa.net.lib wrote:
> You should look into ultra light backpacking. You can make some of your own
> gear such as a soda pop stove. A good start would be to read "Beyond
> Backpacking" by Ray Jardine.
>
I saw the review of the book. I'll definately check it out! Thanks.
Brian...
Cyli
>Hi, my wife and I are new to backpacking and am overwhelmed with all
>the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
>is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
>"long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
>thru hike.
First advice is that you may want to spend next year working up to
doing the Long Path in the following year. Start with one overnight
less than 10 miles from your vehicle in an area without much elevation
to up and down.
>
>How much should I expect to spend buying gear for 1 week trips?
No way to tell. At least a couple of hundred if you go with used and
military surplus. From there up to enormous amounts, depending on your
choices.
>
>How much consideration should I give to lightweight types of camping?
Lots. Probably best not to stat out planning for ultra light, but try
for low weight, but sturdy, in everything.
>
>Should I choose a down or synthetic sleeping bag?
Down is lighter and packs smaller. If you're excellent at keeping
moisture away from it, goferit. Synthetic is cheaper and keeps you
warmer than down would if water or humidity gets to it.
>
>What type of tent should I choose?
Small. Light. Or a bivy sack.
>
>How cold should my sleeping bag be rated?
Where are you going and what are the general ambient temps there? Go
for 15 F lower than that. You'll need a pad, too.
>
>What type of stove should I buy?
I won't even want to start on that. Read previous posts on stoves
here.
If you don't have any experience with stoves, add another year to
everything I've said up above and start even more slowly.
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
>I've already ordered a few good books from Amazon.com. What's the best
>way to gain the experience I need to be successful at this new hobby?
If you haven't car camped, start that now. If you have, start with a
short trip (see my first paragraph).
You didn't even ask about boots, rain gear, bear canisters, dehydrated
food, poly versus wool, avoiding cotton, etc..
Go to Google or other archives and pull up all those subjects.
--
r.bc: vixen
Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher, etc..
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless. Really.
walt moffett
> On 19 Aug 2006 16:43:35 -0700, in rec.backcountry bva...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
>
Thanks for the link. Lots of useful information there.
Dan
> Down is lighter and packs smaller. If you're excellent at keeping
> moisture away from it, goferit. Synthetic is cheaper and keeps you
> warmer than down would if water or humidity gets to it.
Interestingly, I had also always heard that down is pretty bad when wet.
Years of same. Over and over.
The reality is that down is remarkably warm (prolly not QUITE as warm as
synthetic) even when drenched. Shocked the hell out of me...
Of course, .45 cal cylindrical hail (amazing sight in itself) and a
lightning strike with no perceptible time elapse between light and sound
do make for an interesting start to the night. Both tarps with big
holes raining on us through our lean-to all night completed the book.
Next day, sunshine after our hike meant about 90 minutes to dry and
resuscitate the bags, and all was well for a toasty night under the
clouds of mosquitoes...
One of my most memorable trips to Lassen NP.
Dan
hlil...@juno.com
bva...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, my wife and I are new to backpacking and am overwhelmed with all
> the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
> is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
> "long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
> thru hike.
Start with the easy, simple stuff and work up slowly. If possible find
a friend who is good at it and get information/mentoring from him/her.
Probably the surest way to have a miserable experience is dive into a
more difficult hike where you have no easy retreat when you have yet to
gain any experience. That is also a good way to risk meeting the likes
of me in the line of duty (I'm in search and rescue).
You ask a lot of questions about gear, which is useful. However don't
forget that the most important equipment you have is between your ears.
Learn how to functin safely in the environment. Learn navigation.
Learn wilderness first aid. Learn how to recognize and deal with bad
weather. The books you mention are helpful but there is not substitute
for a good instructor or mentor.
> How much should I expect to spend buying gear for 1 week trips?
My suggestion: See if you can borrow or rent for the first few trips.
Try for different stuff each time to find out what you like. The pack
that works great for one person may be horrid for someone with a
different body shape. You don't want to spend a lot of money on gear
only to find that it isn't what works for you, or to decide that after
all you don't really like backpacking.
I once went on a climb with a guy, Josh, who had just finished the
Mazamas basic climbing school. Josh had lots of nice new gear. Seems
that one of the guys in his climbing school group went out and bought
all the latest and greatest stuff. That, BTW, was directly contrary to
the school recommendations, they suggested buying only the minimum till
students were certain they wanted to continue. Well, at the end of
that school the guy decided climbing just wasn't his thing so Josh and
others in the group bought up his stuf cheap and he took a large
monetary loss.
> How much consideration should I give to lightweight types of camping?
Depends on your budget and fitness. Ultralight is nice but of course
can't be as durable as more rugged stuff. If you're very fit you may
be better off with the heavier stuff, especially if your budget is
tight.
> Should I choose a down or synthetic sleeping bag?
Been in a down bag when it was wet, what a miserable night! What
happened was that in army training our squad had one guy whose air
matress leaked and that put the bag in the water collected in the holes
we had to dig to sleep in (to simulate being out of the line of fire
should the enemy come by. We did some rotation so he didn't get that
miserable bag every night. Don't use down unless you can keep it dry.
Here in the often wet Pacific Northwest down is not very popular.
I have a polarguard delta bag which is close to the best of both
worlds. It is synthetic but about as warm for the weight as down.
> What type of tent should I choose?
See above about trying different types.
> How cold should my sleeping bag be rated?
That question has no simple answer. In the first place there is no
really standardized means of rating bags so different manufacturers may
rate them differently. In the second place, people's sleeping needs
are not standard either. Some need more insulation than others.
Do get a good sleeping pad though. Your weight crushes the insulation
beneath you so it is not very thick and therefore does not insulate
well.
> What type of stove should I buy?
Try different types if you can. Howeve be aware that models change
fairly rapidly so you may not be able to find the model your buddy
loaned you. However trying a few different types will give you a feel
for what you like.
bva...@gmail.com
happy.wh...@spokane.wa.net.lib wrote:
> On 19 Aug 2006 16:43:35 -0700, in rec.backcountry bva...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
>
Great site. I really enjoyed reading the journals. Very inspiring.
Brian...
Steve Silberberg
While Ultralighting seems to be oh-so-chic, you might hate it.
Ultralighting is the practice of transferring the palpable misery of
an overloaded weight on your back to a series of tiny miseries in
every other aspect of your trip.
Do you really want to cut your sleeping pad down to the exact size of
your body? Sure it saves weight, but don't try to roll over when you
sleep.
Do you want to use a tarp on the Long Path? Saves lots of weight, but
boy those mosquitoes and no-see-ums can make your night miserable, not
to mention the instability of your tarp in high winds and wetness in
heavy storms. And stand-alone tents can be used on certain surfaces
like gravel beds which are difficult at best for a tarp.
Are you going to bring a soda-can alcohol stove? Don't expect to boil
water in 2 minutes like you can with a Whisperlite or other more
conventional stove. Maybe you don't mind waiting 15 more minutes, but
some of that time you just saved by hiking with a light pack is now
wasted on cooking. And if you're cooking for 4, forget it -- but of
course ultralighters don't eat hot food, another misery they endure to
carry a lighter load.
Only 1 shirt and pants? Sure, you can do it, but there really is
something nice about a clean, dry shirt you pull out of your pack
after several days of being on the trail.
Oh, you say you want to cut off all the straps on your pack? Or saw
off your toothbrush? Pulling a 3 inch strap or brushing with a 3 inch
toothbrush is a hassle and a misery. No reason to do it.
Don't get me wrong. A heavy pack is miserable. I'd like to make my
pack lighter, but not if I have to exchange it for "low top" boots
which make my ankle more susceptible to re-spraining.
All this to say, first decide what you want to get out of backpacking.
If mileage and a light load are your only criteria, then by all means
go Ultralight. Don't bring a water pump and instead drink chemically
treated water with floaties or mud in it.
However I do want to advise you that a non-constricting sleeping bag
that weighs a bit more and is rated a little lower in temp can bring
you far more joy than wearing your filthy fleece inside a skin tight
40 degree bag just to save 6 oz.
--------------
Steve Silberberg
mailto:steve.si...@alum.mit.edu
Read "We'll Kiss For Food"
http://www.kissforfood.com/
john smith
happy.wh...@spokane.wa.net.lib wrote:
>Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
Check the link below for realworld reviews before buying.
bva...@gmail.com
Steve Silberberg wrote:
>
> However I do want to advise you that a non-constricting sleeping bag
> that weighs a bit more and is rated a little lower in temp can bring
> you far more joy than wearing your filthy fleece inside a skin tight
> 40 degree bag just to save 6 oz.
> --------------
Wow, great post! I get the point that you have to weigh (all pun
intended) the pros and cons of the gear you choose to bring.
Steve Silberberg
happy.wh...@spokane.wa.net.lib wrote:
>Or better yet pick your water sources wisely and you don't need to filter or
>treat your water in most places.
While your other points are good, I STRONGLY disagree with this. I
was just on a trip with two people who had previously gotten giardia
-- one in Alaska, one in British Columbia -- from drinking untreated
water. They both thought they couldn't possibly get it.
I wasn't on either trip, so I don't know how carefully they chose
sources, but I know they weren't cavalier about it.
And while the OP may have lots of water choices on the Long Path, as a
general rule, you get water where you can. I'm not very sure how you
would have "wisely" chosen water sources this March on the Arizona
Trail, when it hadn't rained in 150 days and the only water to be
found was in muddy cow basins and algae filled puddles.
Snippy Bobkins
news:1156031015....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, my wife and I are new to backpacking and am overwhelmed with all
> the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
> is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
> "long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
> thru hike.
"Work up to" is key. It's all about progression. Whatever you're doing
fitness-wise outside of backpacking -- running, cycling, walking -- will
help you build stamina.
> How much should I expect to spend buying gear for 1 week trips?
Again, as someone else has suggested, progression. Start with (and keep
doing) day hikes, tag some New York peaks if you like, and add 1-2-3-day
overnights. As with any recreational pursuit, you can spend as much or as
little as you like, depending on how chic or simple you want to be.
>
> How much consideration should I give to lightweight types of camping?
Take weight seriously, but only as seriously as you can and still have fun.
If being a real weight weenie melts your butter then go for it (usenet is
rife with weenies). Personally, I want to be light without getting anal
about it.
> Should I choose a down or synthetic sleeping bag?
For a rookie, consider getting synthetic. It'll give you more room for
error as your learning curve grows.
> What type of tent should I choose?
Scope out rei.com. It can help you make your decision based on the time of
year you plan to camp, the number of companions, weight, etc.
> How cold should my sleeping bag be rated?
See above on tents.
> What type of stove should I buy?
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
> I've already ordered a few good books from Amazon.com. What's the best
> way to gain the experience I need to be successful at this new hobby?
Best way to gain experience is to get out there and do it. Check with your
local REI or EMS, or online in your area for hiking clubs. Getting
connected with hikers familiar to your setting will help you bone up on
local knowledge and skills related to camping like map and compass, first
aid, etc.
Check out
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/
http://gorp.away.com/index.html
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ has seconds, overruns, etc., for good
prices.
and don't forget the Sachs Fifth Avenue of camping... http://www.llbean.com/
Actually L.L.Bean is better than Eddie Bauer.
--
Snippy de Bobkins
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain;
as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
--Albert Einstein
Snippy Bobkins
news:jj_Fg.14135$tP4.2913@clgrps12...
> <bva...@gmail.com> wrote ...
>>
>> What type of stove should I buy?
The Whisperlite International is popular,
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47792735&parent_category_rn=4500454&vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC
or
but asking a backcountry forum which stove is best is risky. ;-)
Sean Elkins
Steve Silberberg <steve.si...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> On 19 Aug 2006 18:23:04 -0700, bva...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >happy.wh...@spokane.wa.net.lib wrote:
> >> You should look into ultra light backpacking. You can make some of your
> >> own
> >> gear such as a soda pop stove. A good start would be to read "Beyond
> >> Backpacking" by Ray Jardine.
> >
> >I saw the review of the book. I'll definately check it out! Thanks.
>
> While Ultralighting seems to be oh-so-chic, you might hate it.
> Ultralighting is the practice of transferring the palpable misery of
> an overloaded weight on your back to a series of tiny miseries in
> every other aspect of your trip.
>
> Do you really want to cut your sleeping pad down to the exact size of
> your body? Sure it saves weight, but don't try to roll over when you
> sleep.
>
> Do you want to use a tarp on the Long Path? Saves lots of weight, but
> boy those mosquitoes and no-see-ums can make your night miserable, not
> to mention the instability of your tarp in high winds and wetness in
> heavy storms. And stand-alone tents can be used on certain surfaces
> like gravel beds which are difficult at best for a tarp.
>
SNIP:
I would say that Steve offers very good advice here. Ultralight has
stopped being about comfort and started being about cool.
If you've never backpacked before, try to make you first trip one where
you can bail out easily, such as a night in the back yard or
'backpacking' in a campground where you limit yourself to only the
supplies in your pack.
This way if you discover some major flaws in your gear or preparation,
rescue is just through the back door or in the car parked 10 feet away.
Mary Malmros
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
> Hi, my wife and I are new to backpacking and am overwhelmed with all
> the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
> is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
> "long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
> thru hike.
You may be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Depending on your
experience level, you may have a ways to go before buying a tent, stove,
etc. makes any sense at all. How much hiking have the two of you done, how
recently, and what kind of hiking was it? Wanting to be a thru-hiker
before you've become a competent day-hiker is putting the cart before the
horse, IMO.
rick++
magazine to suscribe to.
The poster was going to learn about backpacking by reading about it
and provoked a long discussion.
(I took the position its most efficient to learn by watching others.
First, go car camping with friends or a social group, while
renting basic things. Then consider a backpacking trip with
a group too. Then head off on your own.
Some people disagreed, saying you could learn everything on
your own from a book.)
Eugene Miya
rick++ <ric...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>(I took the position ...
...
>Some people disagreed, saying you could learn everything on
>your own from a book.)
I don't recall anyone asserting that.
Who said that?
Well time to check the archives.
--
Mountain Voyageur
>Hi, my wife and I are new to backpacking and am overwhelmed with all
>the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
>is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
>"long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
>thru hike.
...
>How much consideration should I give to lightweight types of camping?
...
>Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
>I've already ordered a few good books from Amazon.com. What's the best
>way to gain the experience I need to be successful at this new hobby?
Not a thru-hiker myself, but afaik many (most?) successful thru-hikers
go ultralight.
One place where there is a lot of good info on ultralight is
www.backpackinglight.com. A certain amount of info there is free, and
if you get serious about it the paid membership may be worth it to
you.
ACAR
>
> >Do you want to use a tarp on the Long Path? Saves lots of weight, but
> >boy those mosquitoes and no-see-ums can make your night miserable, not
> >to mention the instability of your tarp in high winds and wetness in
> >heavy storms. And stand-alone tents can be used on certain surfaces
> >like gravel beds which are difficult at best for a tarp.
>
> Before that I had a go lite lair 2 and I did not like the lack of bug
> protection.
>
>
Check Stephenson's Warmlite tents (www.warmlite.com). At under 2.5 lb.
you get a real (expensive - prices start at $460) 2-person tent. I used
one of their 3-person tents for several years and LOTS of trips. Well
worth the money if you hike a lot.
Weight: Of course if you hike alone you get to carry 100% of what you
brung. But if you hike with a partner, you get to divvy up some of the
gear (tent, stove, water filter, food, etc.).
Shoes: IMHO, footwear isn't simple. Ultralite folks claim running shoes
are fine but LOTS of weekend backpackers used to city sidewalks and
easy trails will sprain an ankle before their muscles strengthen. On
the other hand, heavy boots will quickly tire you out - gotta lift that
load with every step you take. I suggest a lightweight boot with ankle
support unless you have time for training. But even lightweight boots
like Danner 453's weigh about 48 oz/pair vs. 32 oz/ pair for heavy duty
trail running shoes.
Hanta-Yo-Yo
Scouting is what it is called! You get to scout out the local surplus
stores, thrift, freebay, ebay, garage sales and flea markets, used
sporting stores, new sporting stores, Cabelas, EMS, REI, LLBean, Sears,
other dept stores, Walmart, and where ever else you care to look. Now
take your hard won prize home, knowing that you are a victorious scout
Then you get to try out all the goodies, find out how they work, and do
what you want them to do, find out what you want them to do! But
whether they do or don't, you get to continue scouting for that perfect
piece of equipment. That fit just so, that feels just right!
Then eventually you will scout out some rocky trail, lost on the
backside of nowhere, knowing that you are an experienced scout, never
lost, never out of solutions, and always more scouting to do. HYY
Jim Oakley
>Hi, my wife and I are new to backpacking and am overwhelmed with all
>the details to getting started, buying and selecting gear, etc. What
>is the best way to get started. I want to work up to hiking New York's
>"long path" next year as a precurser to a possible Appalachian Trail
>thru hike.
you have to want that AT thru hike in your heart before you attempt
it...
make sure that long distance hiking is what you want to do - not just
your everday backpacking trip
>
>How much should I expect to spend buying gear for 1 week trips?
if you have nothing to start with you should expect to spend plenty
unless someone can loan you sume gear
>
>How much consideration should I give to lightweight types of camping?
>
Personally, I say a lot, unless this turns to car camping.
how much "lack" of comforts can you stand? ultra light means going
without - and going without is something every new ultra-liter needs
to experience. my advice is do your homwork. start out with what you
consider your packweight then eliminate half. good luck.
>Should I choose a down or synthetic sleeping bag?
i've traveled more than 15 years with nothing but a down bag, but i
take precautions to never get it wet.
>
>What type of tent should I choose?
tough question - what are your intentions? thru hike on the AT?
something small, free standing,no more than three pounds, good
ventilation, mosquito screens.
tent for 4 season? little larger, sturdier in wind, 5 lbs or so...
PCT? tarp and/or mosquito netting, possibly a tent like AT for
WA
>
>How cold should my sleeping bag be rated?
i have more than one, but I travel in 4 seasons - if I were to buy one
bag, it would be a 20 degree.
>
>What type of stove should I buy?
too many options...
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a good backpacking primer online.
>I've already ordered a few good books from Amazon.com. What's the best
>way to gain the experience I need to be successful at this new hobby?
once again, are you backpacking, or long distance hiking? these are
two different monsters - i've done both.
long distance hiking takes a bit more preparation, not for the hiking,
but the preparing to hike (leaving your life behind to hit the trail
for 3-5 months is not just another walk in the park) Beyond
Backpacking covers this subject but expect a lot of thought and list
making if a thru hike is imminent - especially if you have a lot of
possesions, houses, pets, children, family responsibilities, job
responsibilities, etc.
backpacking trips need little to some preparation in comparison -
i like to just grab my pack and raid the pantry for a two-three
nighter on a whim!
there are many thru hike sites about the AT
www.whiteblaze.net is an AT site thats got plenty of AT info...
m...@privacy.net
>once again, are you backpacking, or long distance hiking? these are
>two different monsters - i've done both.
Can u explain a bit more how they are diff?
Pat O'Connell
Usenet Hint--this is not chat, IM or SMS. Spell things out and check
grammar if necessary. Usenet is archived by Google, and typos and
"leetspeak" will be on Google Groups forever. I've fixed three typos of
my own in this little paragraph.
Backpacking is hiking with your home on your back, and planning for one
or more overnight camps. See The Complete Walker.
Long distance hiking can be backpacking (Appalachian Trail and other
long trails) with re-supply along the way (read Fletcher's books), but
also can be done as a series of day hikes with a much lighter pack and a
day or two's worth of food, water, and emergency shelter (poncho or
tarp) only. You'll need car shuttle support for this.
I mostly do loop day hikes or out and back day hikes to eliminate the
need for a shuttle car. Backpacking trips can be done as loops also (did
one of those in the Smokies years ago), but probably not for the kind of
trip you're thinking of.
--
Pat O'Connell
[note munged EMail address]
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
m...@privacy.net
> You'll need car shuttle support for this.
what would be best way to support such a hike yet get
car moved daily to make sure it at destination?
arachnid
Use two cars:
A B C D E F G ...
Tow the first to A and drop it there.
Park your second at B
Hike B->A
Drive that car to C
Hike C->B
Drive that car to D
Hike D->C
Drive that car to E
Hike E->D
and so on.
Another way to go is using mail drop. If there are some good mail drops
but you can't count on anyone to get your supplies to them on time, put
everything all in one big and very sturdy box. Include packing and
labeling supplies. Mail it ahead to the first mail drop. Take out what you
need, then mail the remainder to the second mail drop. etc.
A shipping-supply store should have some inflatable shipping bags you can
use to take up space as supplies are removed. Or pack everything into many
small boxes that all go in the big one, and put the empty boxes back in to
take up space.
(It would appear to make more sense to ship the smaller boxes, that way if
one gets lost the others will probably still get there. However one big
box is a whole lot cheaper than many small ones)
If you get to a mail drop and your box isn't there, you can make
arrangements to have it forwarded to the next mail drop when it shows.
Pat O'Connell
A Significant Other that's willing to do the driving, is comfortable in
the outdoors, and has a good sense of direction.
m...@privacy.net
m...@privacy.net
>A Significant Other that's willing to do the driving, is comfortable in
>the outdoors, and has a good sense of direction.
Yeah but I have no sig other
Eugene Miya
arachnid <no...@goawayspammers.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:26:24 -0500, me wrote:
>> Pat O'Connell <gyp...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> You'll need car shuttle support for this.
>> what would be best way to support such a hike yet get
>> car moved daily to make sure it at destination?
>
>Use two cars:
Naw, you don't. That's silly.
There's numerous solutions.
By way of generality:
you can travel with others.
You can do key exchanges or cache the second car.
You can cache a bike and bike back (I have done this a number of times).
You can hitch.
You can take trains, buses, planes, etc.
You can get friends to drive you.
It depends where a person is, and what's happening.
But if the person is a 1st timer, they have bigger problems.
--
Mary Malmros
Time to make some friends or join a club, then.
You probably should be starting with dayhikes rather than backpacking,
but if you're a first-timer AND you don't have anyone to go with, you
REALLY shouldn't be starting with backpacking. Backpacking skills are
really just a superset of day-hiking skills, but with day-hiking, you
can set a learning curve that's safer and less likely to chase you out
of the sport (or whatever you want to call it) altogether. Your initial
gear requirements are less, and your subsequent gear purchases are based
on experience and clue, not on recommendations from unknown people on
usenet, trying to advise a person they've never seen. Stop fretting
about backpacking logistics, you've got that cart way, waaaay ahead of
the horse.
m...@privacy.net
>Stop fretting
>about backpacking logistics, you've got that cart way, waaaay ahead of
>the horse.
I'm not fretting..... just in learning mode
Will start with day hikes
Actually that my be all I do even with multi day hikes.
I might just opt to day hike each day but stay in
motels at night
Hanta-Yo-Yo
Another option, is to park your car at start,
1st day, Hike in one day, and camp,
2nd day, hike back to car and car camp that night, restock, adjust, and
repair (known as RAR)
3rd day, drive to next trail crossing, and back hike to previous days
pt of forward progress,
4th day hike back to car, and car camp, RAR
5th day, hike forward one day, and camp,
6th day, hike back to car and car camp, RAR, and so on!
To start with you will be doing a lot of backtracking, but this will
always bring you back to your car, for RAR. You will quickly learn how
far you can go in a day, limitations of gear, limitations of your
ability to carry, and comfort zone will never be far from car. You will
learn to read map and plan your route. If you have to drive too far,
such that you find you can't make the connection to the previous days
forward progress, then you will know you have to do more map reading
and planning, to either get closer with your vehicle, or prepare for a
longer hike to the connecting mid-point, from both ends.
One other major advantage of this system, is that on the back hike,
everything looks different, so you will be getting double pleasure for
your investment of effort. Take lots of pictures, look around often,
keep your eye on your back trail, that way you won't get lost as often!
Noone gets lost on the forward hike, they always get to some unknown
spot, whether it is where they wanted to be or not, is not too
important! It is when you are trying to remember how to get back to
your car, and you can't remember which Y in the trail you came up just
the day before, that is when your realize you are lost.
Again the best solution is to get a good map, and compass, learn how to
use them. This way, you will get lots of camping in, and see all of the
country. I can't tell you the number of times, I have hiked, turned
around, and thought "Where did that mountain come from all of a
sudden?" By the way, with all your questions about gear, I haven't
heard you say anything about a map and compass? Hint, hint!
No GPS with battery that goes bad, and no longer works to tell you your
back trail. GPS is great until it doesn't work, and you have had your
eye so fixated on the GPS screen that you forgot to look around and
take pictures. Infact, when taking pictures, use the digital camera, so
that you can review them on trailside, and you will have instant
perfect recall of that unknown Y and which way to go! Don't want you to
think I am totally against modern gadgets, and since you were going to
take pictures anyway!
This will get you started, with variations developing along the way.
You may find that you can hike two days in easily to a connecting
point, which will give you four days on the trail. You will figure out
how much four days supplies of food and water weigh. You will figure
out the difference between a 3 lb tent, and a 5lb tent. Oh, and those
boots that feel great in the store, and walking around in your living
room, may not be all they are cracked up to be out on the trail. The
sleeping bag may be good for car camping, and used when you are at the
car, but you would not want to have to carry it 100 yards from the car.
Then there are sleeping pads, stoves, lanterns, water purifiers, your
backpack, and all its buckles and straps. And then there are the bugs!
Then when TSHTF, you can always bail out, and stay at the Motel, warm
shower, clean bed, good food, and hopefullly no bed bugs! Ha, LOL HYY
Mary Malmros
Do a google search on "inn-to-inn". It's pricey, but not a bad way to
get started -- someone else handles all the logistics for you. Just do
some day-hiking first so that you can handle the mileage.
m...@privacy.net
> By the way, with all your questions about gear, I haven't
>heard you say anything about a map and compass? Hint, hint!
Agree
But this idea is still in "genesis" stage
id like to recreate a small portion of The Thousand
Mile Summer..... i.e. southern CA in Feb. or so
Pat O'Connell
Better learn (topo) map and compass now. It's an important skill to
learn--keeps you un-lost. Join an outdoor/hiking club if possible. Maybe
try orienteering if that's done in your area (clubs near KC and St.
Louis). There are books, "Be Expert with Map and Compass" being one I own.
Eugene Miya
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>Mary Malmros <malmro...@nospamverizon.net> wrote:
>>Stop fretting
>>about backpacking logistics, you've got that cart way, waaaay ahead of
>>the horse.
>
>I'm not fretting..... just in learning mode
You should especially listen to Mary because far few women do outdoor
activities.
>Will start with day hikes
Well, you started your thread at the end of July.
It is true that you have health problems which are beyond the scope of
the group, but not life threatening. Over 4 weekends have past.
You should be doing day hiking now. Don't call it hiking.
We've learned you live in MO, a reasonably flat (not 6K ft gains there)
Just traverse N-S and E-W the town you live in. See dr. if problems.
If too small, then move to traversing the county you line in.
This does not require hiking boots.
Find the county high point. The State high point.
Be the CF of MO. We are talking roads and sidewalks, etc. here, not trails.
I'm out here for 5 days.
>Actually that my be all I do even with multi day hikes.
>I might just opt to day hike each day but stay in
>motels at night
Do; no "might." No self-pity.
What was the DH Lawrence poem on self-pity in GI Jane?
--
Mary Malmros
news:AvCdnXCO9emHn2rZ...@comcast.com:
> m...@privacy.net wrote:
>> "Hanta-Yo-Yo" <Hanta...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By the way, with all your questions about gear, I haven't
>>>heard you say anything about a map and compass? Hint, hint!
>>
>> Agree
>>
>> But this idea is still in "genesis" stage
>>
>> id like to recreate a small portion of The Thousand
>> Mile Summer..... i.e. southern CA in Feb. or so
>
> Better learn (topo) map and compass now. It's an important skill to
> learn--keeps you un-lost. Join an outdoor/hiking club if possible.
> Maybe try orienteering if that's done in your area (clubs near KC and
> St. Louis). There are books, "Be Expert with Map and Compass" being
> one I own.
Or skip the club, get a copy of that book (it's pretty much the one to
get) and a basic compass, get a local topo map, and practice navigating
using corporate boundary markers. These are represented on topos as
open squares on the boundaries between towns, counties, etc. They make
good practice points for navigation -- navigate your way through a half
mile of mountain laurel and there it is.
mkt
[...]
> >Will start with day hikes
That's important, but almost as important is the other advice given:
start by camping close to your car. In fact, although no one here's
advised it, I'd make the first night actual car-camping, in a regular
campground. Use just your backpacking stuff, try not to cheat and go
back to the car and get stuff, but if you discover that you forgot
something or did something wrong (tent falls down in the rain or
something) you've got your escape vehicle right there at your campsite.
Even better is a campground where the campsites are walk-ins, so you
can do a mini-backpack maybe 1/4 mile or a mile from the parking lot,
but those types of campgrounds are relatively rare.
[...]
> We've learned you live in MO, a reasonably flat (not 6K ft gains there)
[...]
> Find the county high point. The State high point.
Ah, Taum Sauk Mountain, been there done that. All 1,772 feet of it.
Annoyingly, there's a road to the top, so one has to share the "summit"
with the car traffic.
How many states' high points are basically driveable to the summit?
HI, NH, MA, MO. Not AK, WA, CA, OR. One can drive to the top of Pikes
Peak, but that's not CO's high point.
--MKT
mkt
> Pat O'Connell <gyp...@comcast.net> wrote in
[...]
> > Better learn (topo) map and compass now. It's an important skill to
> > learn--keeps you un-lost. Join an outdoor/hiking club if possible.
> > Maybe try orienteering if that's done in your area (clubs near KC and
> > St. Louis). There are books, "Be Expert with Map and Compass" being
> > one I own.
>
> Or skip the club, get a copy of that book (it's pretty much the one to
> get) and a basic compass, get a local topo map, and practice navigating
> using corporate boundary markers. These are represented on topos as
> open squares on the boundaries between towns, counties, etc. They make
> good practice points for navigation -- navigate your way through a half
> mile of mountain laurel and there it is.
An intermediate option (i.e. largely skipping the club, while still
practicing something like formal orienteering) is to practice on a
permanent orienteering course, if there is one in your area. I've
always heard them called "trim courses" but the US Orienteering
Federation website simply calls them "permanent courses":
http://www.us.orienteering.org/POC.html
Kjlellstrom's "Be Expert with Map and Compass" is indeed probably the
best book, but book knowledge is no substitute for being out there in
the middle of the woods. The nice thing about orienteering courses is
they're already set up with prescribed degrees of difficulty, usually
away from major dangers (though rattlesnakes, poison oak, etc. can
always be hazards). With the permanent orienteering courses you can go
out there any time you want without the rigamarole of actually
registering for and entering an orienteering meet.
--MKT
m...@privacy.net
>That's important, but almost as important is the other advice given:
>start by camping close to your car. In fact, although no one here's
>advised it, I'd make the first night actual car-camping, in a regular
>campground. Use just your backpacking stuff, try not to cheat and go
>back to the car and get stuff, but if you discover that you forgot
>something or did something wrong (tent falls down in the rain or
>something) you've got your escape vehicle right there at your campsite.
Fantastic advice
Thanks so much!
Eugene Miya
I would say that if he's only going to do the first 200 miles of CF's
walk, he doesn't need a compass, and a decent AAA road map will do.
He has a lot of other more serious problems like caching water as
Fletcher did.
--
Eugene Miya
In article <1157688028....@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
mkt <tam...@oxy.edu> wrote:
>Ah, Taum Sauk Mountain, been there done that. All 1,772 feet of it.
>Annoyingly, there's a road to the top, so one has to share the "summit"
>with the car traffic.
>
>How many states' high points are basically driveable to the summit?
>HI, NH, MA, MO. Not AK, WA, CA, OR. One can drive to the top of Pikes
>Peak, but that's not CO's high point.
Let's see, actually not HI. You can drive next to the HI telescope then
down a saddle and up to get to it.
CO: Evans, too for 14K. White in CA is 14K. I got the Trooper because
of it.
--
Hanta-Yo-Yo
Better yet camp in your backyard for a week, and you will figure out
what you forgot, before you trully forgot when it counted. HYY
Heynony
> What's the best
> way to gain the experience I need to be successful at this new hobby?
Walk in the woods. Read a couple of good books, with a very critical
perspective. Stay away from this newsgroup.
Do some thinking about your day hikes. What would you _need_ to stay
out overnight and do it again tomorrow.
Many areas have clubs or chapters of national groups where you can
associate with backpackers and do day hikes with groups, a great
environment in which to absorb the experiences of others.
Colin Fletcher's The Walk Book (older editions are better, and in any
case ignore specific vendors and equipment and details and soak up the
underlying principles). Harvey Manning's Backpacking One Step at a
Time.
Did I mention: _absolutely_ stay away from this newsgroup.
D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch
> Colin Fletcher's The Walk Book (older editions are better, and in any
> case ignore specific vendors and equipment and details and soak up the
> underlying principles). Harvey Manning's Backpacking One Step at a
> Time.
I'm thinking you must mean Colin Fletcher's "The Complete Walker."
Either that, or he's come out with a book I haven't heard of, and I'm a
Fletcher fan.
Fletcher also wrote a superb book called "The Man Who Walked Through
Time," about his experience as the first person known to have walked the
length of Grand Canyon National Park within the rim. Not a lot of useful
technical advice in that one, but lots about what being out away from
"civilization" does for you. That book changed me.
Bill
__o | How many wilderness areas do we need?
_`\(,_ | How many Brahms symphonies do we need?
(_)/ (_) | -- Robert Marshall
m...@privacy.net
D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch
> D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch wrote:
> > That book changed me.
> How so?
Ever been on a long hike, away from cars, radios, TV, and crowds? Ever
spent a long time immersed in the real world instead, be it mountains,
canyon, or desert?
If you have, you know how so. If you haven't, the only way to find out
is to do it.
Bill
__o | I am glad I will not be young in a future without wilderness.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) | - Aldo Leopold
m...@privacy.net
> Ever been on a long hike, away from cars, radios, TV, and crowds? Ever
>spent a long time immersed in the real world instead, be it mountains,
>canyon, or desert?
> If you have, you know how so. If you haven't, the only way to find out
>is to do it.
No.... no I haven't.... but I get your point
I would LOVE to do such a thing someday!
D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch
> I would LOVE to do such a thing someday!
In the meantime, you could read The Man Who Walked Through Time.
Bill
----------------------------------------------------
| Only when the last tree has died & the last river |
| has been poisoned & the last fish has been caught |
| will we realize that we cannot eat money. |
----------------------------------------------------
Eugene Miya
> Fletcher also wrote a superb book called "The Man Who Walked Through
>Time," about his experience as the first person known to have walked the
not that Fletcher nor Harvey cared. It was not about firsts for them.
>length of Grand Canyon National Park within the rim. Not a lot of useful
>technical advice in that one, but lots about what being out away from
>"civilization" does for you. That book changed me.
--
m...@privacy.net
>> I would LOVE to do such a thing someday!
>
> In the meantime, you could read The Man Who Walked Through Time.
I already have
Pat O'Connell
> In article <ef6d0c$ed0$3...@news.xmission.com>, <D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch> wrote:
>> Fletcher also wrote a superb book called "The Man Who Walked Through
>>Time," about his experience as the first person known to have walked the
> Thought Harvey Buchart (sp) had this distinction,
Harvey Butchart. According to the forward of Harvey's book "Grand Canyon
Treks," Fletcher "sought him out for detailed information during the
planning stages" for his three month hike. I'll guess that Butchart had
been most of the places Fletcher walked, but never attempted a
continuous three month walk.
> not that Fletcher nor Harvey cared. It was not about firsts for them.
>>length of Grand Canyon National Park within the rim. Not a lot of useful
>>technical advice in that one, but lots about what being out away from
> Not a technical book.
>>"civilization" does for you. That book changed me.
I've owned all four editions of The Complete Walker, and when a new
version came out, donated the previous edition to a library.
Backpacker often does good tests on equipment, but I often wonder if
they're entirely unbiased. Equipment manufacturers are their
advertisers, after all.
There's no doubt that Fletcher and, for that matter, Chip Rawlins, are
unbiased except by their own personal experiences with equipment.
Eugene Miya
In article <T_GdnaBk8IUm84XY...@comcast.com>,
Pat O'Connell <gypkap.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Harvey Butchart. According to the forward of Harvey's book "Grand Canyon
>Treks," Fletcher "sought him out for detailed information during the
>planning stages" for his three month hike. I'll guess that Butchart had
>been most of the places Fletcher walked, but never attempted a
>continuous three month walk.
Well he had to work on tenure at the NAzU.
>I've owned all four editions of The Complete Walker, and when a new
>version came out, donated the previous edition to a library.
Did they really change that much? I never bothered with updates.
I have not even bothered to replace the last copy I loaned out.
>Backpacker often does good tests on equipment, but I often wonder if
>they're entirely unbiased. Equipment manufacturers are their
>advertisers, after all.
I think their tests are barely adequate. They tend to be a little naive
(maybe they should be). Every one has biases. You want certain biases.
You want to get through things smartly.
>There's no doubt that Fletcher and, for that matter, Chip Rawlins, are
>unbiased except by their own personal experiences with equipment.
Well I would not call them unbiased. I would say they have experience.
And that is an important point to people who make and don't use gear.
--
Pat O'Connell
>>>> Fletcher "The Man Who Walked Through Time,"
>>> Thought Harvey Buchart (sp) had this distinction,
>
> In article <T_GdnaBk8IUm84XY...@comcast.com>, Pat
> O'Connell <gypkap.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Harvey Butchart. According to the forward of Harvey's book "Grand
>> Canyon Treks," Fletcher "sought him out for detailed information
>> during the planning stages" for his three month hike. I'll guess
>> that Butchart had been most of the places Fletcher walked, but
>> never attempted a continuous three month walk.
>
> Well he had to work on tenure at the NAzU.
And most of his trips were not for extended periods of time. Maybe a few
days at a stretch.
>> I've owned all four editions of The Complete Walker, and when a new
>> version came out, donated the previous edition to a library.
>
> Did they really change that much? I never bothered with updates. I
> have not even bothered to replace the last copy I loaned out.
The latest book has, of course, two authors, and they mostly agree about
things, though not always. Kind of a Siskel-Ebert thing. They do seem to
ride herd on each other's eccentricities, mostly. Mintcake has gone from
Fletcher's "barbaric" diet; instead he does the Zone Diet. Rawlins
really likes solar powered (through rechargeable batteries) Zip Stoves,
but I think Fletcher is a little skeptical.
There have been other technological improvements to equipment since the
80s, and they're covered in the newest book.
>> Backpacker often does good tests on equipment, but I often wonder
>> if they're entirely unbiased. Equipment manufacturers are their
>> advertisers, after all.
>
> I think their tests are barely adequate. They tend to be a little
> naive (maybe they should be). Every one has biases. You want
> certain biases. You want to get through things smartly.
Certainly, some small equipment makers with miniscule ad budgets win
over big companies in Backpacker's reviews. It's the details that the
little guys figure out that make their products better.
Eugene Miya
>>> Canyon Treks," Fletcher "sought him out for detailed information
>>> during the planning stages" for his three month hike. I'll guess
>>> that Butchart had been most of the places Fletcher walked, but
>>> never attempted a continuous three month walk.
>>
>> Well he had to work on tenure at the NAzU.
>
>And most of his trips were not for extended periods of time. Maybe a few
>days at a stretch.
Family man, too.
>>> all four editions of The Complete Walker
>> Did they really change that much?
>
>The latest book has, of course, two authors, and they mostly agree about
>things, though not always. Kind of a Siskel-Ebert thing. They do seem to
>ride herd on each other's eccentricities, mostly. Mintcake has gone from
> Fletcher's "barbaric" diet; instead he does the Zone Diet. Rawlins
>really likes solar powered (through rechargeable batteries) Zip Stoves,
>but I think Fletcher is a little skeptical.
Zone? Zip?
>There have been other technological improvements to equipment since the
>80s, and they're covered in the newest book.
Let me know when they get to the StarTrek Anti-grav units.
>>> Backpacker often does good tests on equipment, but I often wonder
>>> if they're entirely unbiased. Equipment manufacturers are their
>>> advertisers, after all.
>>
>> I think their tests are barely adequate. They tend to be a little
>> naive (maybe they should be). Every one has biases. You want
>> certain biases. You want to get through things smartly.
>
>Certainly, some small equipment makers with miniscule ad budgets win
>over big companies in Backpacker's reviews. It's the details that the
>little guys figure out that make their products better.
It's a weird finnicky market.
Especially since most are short timers.
--
D_Frum...@ndersnat.ch
> Thought Harvey Buchart (sp) had this distinction,
> not that Fletcher nor Harvey cared. It was not about firsts for them.
all the places he'd hiked inked in. He had been nearly everywhere, but
not the length of the Canyon in one continuous hike.
There was one place that Fletcher planned to go, near Fossil Bay IIRC,
that Butchart hadn't hiked. When Fletcher got there it was cold and there
was a bit of snow (or frost), and as it melted it revealed ghostly
footprints. Butchart had been concerned about the feasability of
Fletcher's route, and had gone through that section ahead of him to scout
it. Fletcher was literally following in his mentor's footsteps.
On the subject of equipment reviews, legend has it that recommendations
from Fletcher did a lot to make a little backpack company called Kelty
into what it later became.
Bill
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| The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion. |
| --Edmund Burke |
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