Student pilot certificate question
es330td
license (though I did fly a couple weeks ago.) My student pilot
certificate expired at the end of July. In August I went to the local
FAA office and got a new student pilot certificate. Last month the
FAA changed the rules on student pilot certificates and now they run
concurrent with the medical, so my original student pilot certificate
is again valid. When I fly, do I need to have the new certificate on
me or is my original medical sufficient since it is stll current?
Jeffrey Bloss
Doesn't make any difference what we think, ask the FAA for ruling.
Jim Logajan
Hopefully this EAA article should answer your question:
http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-07-24_medicals.asp
As I understand it, if you are under 40, your class 3 medical should now be
good to July of '12 irrespective of your new student certificate expiration
date. Renewing your student certificate doesn't appear to push back your
medical expiration date.
Keep in mind that it is quite possible to get a student license without a
medical (e.g. for glider, balloon, and sport pilot training) and presumably
get a medical later if the student changes the goal to a certificate that
requires a medical.
Jim Logajan
> es330td <es3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I got my Class 3 medical in July of '07. I still don't have my
>> license (though I did fly a couple weeks ago.) My student pilot
>> certificate expired at the end of July. In August I went to the
>> local FAA office and got a new student pilot certificate. Last month
>> the FAA changed the rules on student pilot certificates and now they
>> run concurrent with the medical, so my original student pilot
>> certificate is again valid. When I fly, do I need to have the new
>> certificate on me or is my original medical sufficient since it is
>> stll current?
>
> Hopefully this EAA article should answer your question:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-07-24_medicals.asp
>
> As I understand it, if you are under 40, your class 3 medical should
> now be good to July of '12 irrespective of your new student
> certificate expiration date. Renewing your student certificate doesn't
> appear to push back your medical expiration date.
Addendum:
Per 61.19(b)(1) [I'm assuming you are under 40] it would appear your
renewed student pilot certificate should be good through to the end of July
of 2012 - irrespective of what expiration date it shows.
If you are over 40, then I believe you can't fly solo until you get another
medical, at which time your student pilot certificate (per 61.19(b)(2))
expiration date becomes the same as your medical expiration date.
That's my understanding, anyway.
Jim Logajan
> Doesn't make any difference what we think, ask the FAA for ruling.
Are you a CFI, student pilot, have some genuine interest or connection to
aviation that motivates your posts to the aviation groups?
Jeffrey Bloss
Yes.
And you?
Jeffrey Bloss
> [I'm assuming
Don't.
Get the FAA to review your particular and personal circumstances and
rule on them. Any other advice is exactly worth what you paid for it.
Jim Logajan
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:43:17 -0500, Jim Logajan wrote:
>
>> [I'm assuming
>
> Don't.
I could have assumed he was over 40 or under 40 and given him correct
advise for both assumptions.
> Get the FAA to review your particular and personal circumstances and
> rule on them. Any other advice is exactly worth what you paid for it.
That is utterly stupid advice for such a simple question. What makes you
think his circumstances are so unique that the regulations don't cover
them?
Jim Logajan
No "Jeffrey Bloss" in the FAA registry. Not one single post from you so far
with any redeeming qualities to the aviation newsgroups.
Everything but "trolling the aviation groups" appears to be excluded.
> And you?
Look up my name in the FAA registry, if you know how.
Jeffrey Bloss
> Jeffrey Bloss <jeffre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:49:39 -0500, Jim Logajan wrote:
>>
>>> Jeffrey Bloss <jeffre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Doesn't make any difference what we think, ask the FAA for ruling.
>>>
>>> Are you a CFI, student pilot, have some genuine interest or
>>> connection to aviation that motivates your posts to the aviation
>>> groups?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> No "Jeffrey Bloss" in the FAA registry. Not one single post from you so far
> with any redeeming qualities to the aviation newsgroups.
Thanks for the update, only real fools post using their real names,
Jimmie.
Btw, posting to Usenet is *not* considered work.
Get a job.
Jeffrey Bloss
Oh I see, Jim Logafuckface on a Usenet newsgroup giving his
interpretation of a FAR is better than going to the FAA and getting
something reliable and ironclad on a rule *they* wrote.
Especially considering the OP said " In August I went to the local
FAA office".....where he could call or return.
I got it now.
Your imbecility is only superseded by your overblown self-importance
(ego), Jimmie.
es330td
38 and will turn 40 in Feb 2011.
The rules used to be that while a Class 3 was good for three years,
the student pilot certificate expired after 2 so a student pilot that
took longer than 2 years to get his private needed to get a new
student pilot certificate only. The FAA made two changes. The first
is that a Class 3 is good for 5 years. At the time of this change,
the student pilot certificate still expired after two years. In
September they made an additional change, extending the validity of
the student pilot certificate to that of the Class 3 medical. My
problem is that I am in possession of two student pilot certificates.
It is not clear to me if the original is valid or if the existence of
the 2nd invalidates the first, much like a subsequent will invalidates
any previous. Here is my timeline:
July '07: Issued Class 3 medical
Spring '09: FAA extends Class 3 from 36 months to 60 months
July '09: Original Student Pilot certificate expires (medical still
good)
August '09: FAA issues new student pilot certificate
September '09: FAA extends Student Pilot Certificate to 60 months,
matching Class 3
My student pilot certificate expired at the end of July '09. That
presents two questions:
1 "Does the FAA extension of student pilot certificate expiration un-
expire my expired student certificate?"
2 "Does the existence of a more recently issued student pilot
certificate then require that it be carried, in addition to my
original Class 3 medical?"
FAR 61.19(a) says "General. The holder of a certificate with an
expiration date may not, after that date, exercise the privileges of
that certificate"
FAR 61.19(b)1 says "For student pilots who have not reached their 40th
birthday, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 60
calendar months after the month of the date of examination shown on
the medical certificate."
(b)1 to me says that my student pilot certificate is good
There is one addition question, which is "Why don't I just hurry up
and get my private and make this question irrelevent?" Trust me, I
am.
Mark Hansen
If it were me, I would just carry both. I can understand why you
would want to know, however :-)
--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
Jim Logajan
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:22:40 -0500, Jim Logajan wrote:
>> Not one single post from you
>> so far with any redeeming qualities to the aviation newsgroups.
>
> Thanks for the update,
Good to see we both agree that your posts have no redeeming value.
> only real fools post using their real names,
Alas - you got that backward - but that's OK! I realize now that you don't
know how to read FAA regulations so it's not surprising you'd misunderstand
how to recognize fools.
> Btw, posting to Usenet is *not* considered work.
Ah, so you must be posting so often because you have gobs of time due to
being unemployed. I'm sorry to discover that - but I'm afraid my company
has no "Usenet Troll" positions currently open at this time.
Jim Logajan
The first certificate was superseded when you got the second one. In fact
someone (you or someone at the office you went to) should have used your
first certificate to fill in fields "M" through "P" on FAA form 8710-1
where it asks "Do you now hold, or have you ever held an FAA Pilot
Certificate?"
If in doubt, search the FAA airmen registry for your own name and check
the date of issuance (DOI) of your student certificate:
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/
If the registry shows you with two student certificates - let us know!
> 2 "Does the existence of a more recently issued student pilot
> certificate then require that it be carried, in addition to my
> original Class 3 medical?"
If the old certificate contains endorsements, you should keep it and
carry it as proof, according to this site:
http://www.asa2fly.com/Student-Pilot-FAQ-C79_category.aspx
"Q: If my original student pilot certificate has been endorsed for solo
flying, do I lose this endorsement on my new certificate?
A: No, the endorsements are still valid. However, they are not
transferred to the new certificate. Keep the old certificate as a
record of these endorsements."
>
> FAR 61.19(a) says "General. The holder of a certificate with an
> expiration date may not, after that date, exercise the privileges of
> that certificate"
>
> FAR 61.19(b)1 says "For student pilots who have not reached their 40th
> birthday, the student pilot certificate does not expire until 60
> calendar months after the month of the date of examination shown on
> the medical certificate."
>
> (b)1 to me says that my student pilot certificate is good
It should be. The "Final Rule" says the new rules applied to existing
medical certificates (and specific rules in the regs tend to preempt
general rules):
http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/FAA-2007-27812-0038.pdf
"The new duration periods will be effective the day this rule is
published and will affect current medical certificates holders.
First- and third- class medical certificate holders, who were under
age 40 on the date of the application of their medical certificate,
will be covered by the new, longer durations established under
61.23(d).
To determine the duration of one's medical certificate, one should
examine two pertinent dates displayed on each medical certificate:
The date of the applicant's birth, which determines the applicant's
age at the time of the application, and the date of the applicant's
medical examination."
It then goes into examples on applying that information to provide help
in understanding how to apply the rules to one's own situation.
> There is one addition question, which is "Why don't I just hurry up
> and get my private and make this question irrelevent?" Trust me, I
> am.
These things always go as fast as time and money permit. I myself can't
seem to find the needed spare time!
Jeffrey Bloss
Like I said, get a job, I have one.
Jeffrey Bloss
> These things always go as fast as time and money permit. I myself can't
> seem to find the needed spare time!
Try cutting your posting to Usenet and aviation forums to less than 15
hours/day, Jimmie, it will be amazing what time you will have to
actually fly a fucking airplane.
Jim Logajan
> a fucking airplane.
Mental age: Preadolescence.
Physical age: Unknown.
"Adolescent psychology is associated with notable changes in mood sometimes
known as mood swings.
[...]
Because of peer pressure, they may sometimes indulge in activities not
deemed socially acceptable, although this may be more of a social
phenomenon than a psychological one.
[...]
If the concepts and theory behind right or wrong were not established early
on in a child's life, the lack of this knowledge may impair a teenager's
ability to make beneficial decisions as well as allowing his/her impulses
to control his/her decisions.
In the search for a unique social identity for themselves, adolescents are
frequently confused about what is 'right' and what is 'wrong.'"
es330td
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for your feeback. I checked the faa.gov website and it shows
only the certificate issued in August. I will carry both my medical
and my new certificate when I fly.
Jeffrey Bloss
You don't mind if I add R.A.P to this discussion, do you Jimmie? Sure
would seem awfully disingenuous of you to hide out being the assclown
that you are in one newsgruppe.
Yes, Jimmie Jobless, let's let the rest of the aviators see what a
miserable, troll-baiting bunch of feces you truly are.
Jeffrey Bloss
>>> There is one addition question, which is "Why don't I just hurry up
>>> and get my private and make this question irrelevent?" �Trust me, I
>>> am.
>>
>> These things always go as fast as time and money permit. I myself can't
>> seem to find the needed spare time!- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for your feeback. I checked the faa.gov website
Translation: Fuck Off Logajan, I went to the FAA for a *real* answer,
sorry I wasted your time, Jimmie.
lol
Ricky
Actually, the definition offered seems to fit you quite well.
Jeffrey Bloss
Jim Stewart
> If you are over 40, then I believe you can't fly solo until you get another
> medical, at which time your student pilot certificate (per 61.19(b)(2))
> expiration date becomes the same as your medical expiration date.
>
> That's my understanding, anyway.
Unless you fly as a light sport student...
Jim Logajan
Indeed - and 61.19 covers that and other exceptions. But the context of the
thread didn't appear to be about sport piloting, so I saw no need to go
into details that didn't appear to be relevant to the OP. I fly gliders,
which also don't require a medical, but didn't mention that exception
either. Nor do you need one for piloting balloons or ultralights.
BT
"Jim Stewart" <jste...@jkmicro.com> wrote in message
news:hc7jsm$l9o$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
If he did.. he would not have needed a Class III medical/student certificate
to start with.
As stated in the OP.
BT
Jim Stewart
Didn't know the group had gotten so tightly wound...
Jeffrey Bloss
With Logjan around playing NetKop and Usenet Crusader, it becomes a
necessary evil. lol
BT
The one with the most recent date.
Check the FAA registry and you will find yourself and the date.
BT
"es330td" <es3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f94ac84b-3189-4c34...@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>I got my Class 3 medical in July of '07. I still don't have my
> license (though I did fly a couple weeks ago.) My student pilot
> certificate expired at the end of July. In August I went to the local
> FAA office and got a new student pilot certificate. Last month the
> FAA changed the rules on student pilot certificates and now they run
> concurrent with the medical, so my original student pilot certificate