500 km Triangle at 306 km/hr in Argentina
Paul Remde
"Today, Dec 22nd 2006 at 1:00 AM UTC, Klaus Ohlmann called me on the phone
just after landing to let me know he have made a 500 Km flight at 306 km/h
on average in a Nimbus 4DM... this could be the first above 300 km/h and for
far, the fastest glider flight made under FAI rules."
306 km/hr = 190 mph = 165 knots
That is an amazing feat!
Congratulations Mr. Ohlmann!!!
Merry Christmas,
Paul Remde
cherok...@gmail.com
ive spent about 1000 hours going slower than that with an ENGINE.
fado...@yahoo.com
JS
> 306 km/hr = 190 mph = 165 knots
>
> That is an amazing feat!
>
Yes, it is.
Anyone trying to beat that record should be certain their parachute is
in good shape, as the number of wings will likely total zero.
Jim
Soarin Again
>
>> 306 km/hr = 190 mph = 165 knots
>>
>> That is an amazing feat!
>>
>Anyone trying to beat that record should be certain
>their parachute is
>in good shape, as the number of wings will likely total
>zero.
>Jim
Does anyone know if his Nimbus 4DM has had special
modifications to increase the vne at altitude, or does
he just not care about operating limitations?
Soarin
Greg Arnold
> At 05:42 23 December 2006, Js wrote:
>>> 306 km/hr = 190 mph = 165 knots
>>>
>>> That is an amazing feat!
>>>
>
> modifications to increase the vne at altitude, or does
> he just not care about operating limitations?
>
> Soarin
When you are cruising at 20,000' to 30,000', doesn't the effect of
altitude cause IAS to be substantially less than ground speed?
Marc Ramsey
306 km/hr true airspeed is 200 to 220 km/hr IAS at the 20000+ foot
altitudes used for these wave flights. Some gliders do require a
reduction in Vne at higher altitudes, but it isn't necessarily the case
that the limitation was exceeded.
Marc
Marc Ramsey
If the 4DM follows the protocol used by the Duo (for which I have a
manual), Vne is IAS up to approximately 2500M altitude, then the
equivalent TAS from there up. If Vne for the 4DM is 275 km/hr, the TAS
limitation would be around 310 km/hr.
Stefan
> When you are cruising at 20,000' to 30,000', doesn't the effect of
> altitude cause IAS to be substantially less than ground speed?
Vne goes with TAS, not IAS. But then, as it most probably was a wave
flight, there most probably was a wind.
Doug Haluza
The Vne for the Nimbus 4DM is 285km/h (154 kt). Flutter speeds do not
follow TAS, but actually follow approximately 3/4 the way between IAS
and TAS. So it is possible to fly safely past 300km/h at altitude.
Markus
about them having modifed a Nimbus 4 for high altitude record flights
in Argentina. If I recall correctly they did modifications (probably
some mass balancing) to counter the onset of flutter as a result of
high TAS at altitude.
Markus
Doug Haluza
Yes, but in a closed course, the wind is a net loss, not a benefit.
Bruce Greef
different altitudes can no doubt be a benefit.
Shawn
I find these sorts of discussions amusing. Do F1 drivers religiously
follow redline engine speeds or anticipated braking limits for
conditions when they're out to beat the next guy?
Breaking records in aircraft is not analogous to driving the family SUV
to the mall, or the 1-26 around a silver distance triangle. Speed
limits and safe and reasonable don't apply. If it wasn't pushing the
envelope, we'd all be doing it.
My $ 0.02.
Shawn
J. Nieuwenhuize
Shawn schreef:
When not flying in an airworthiness glider you're simply not allowed to
fly at all, so no records either. That does give Americans (of which
most have an experimental registrated glider) in fact an unfair
advantage, but up to now no one cared. Maybe that's gonna change...
J. Nieuwenhuize
Markus schreef:
Yeah; it's over here:
http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=126&L=1&tx_ttnewspointer]=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=48&tx_ttnews[backPid]=87&cHash=3f1ff7d791
"The maximum speed at high altitudes heights could be significantly
increased through modification of the Nimbus-4D/DM. Fortunately these
advantages could be realised this year with record flights in the waves
of the Andes in South America"
I'm curious whether they only placed lead, or the complete wing and
tail is redesigned.
JS
mods done. There have been a couple of broken spars in the Sierra wave,
and it would be great if that trend wasn't continued.
Jim
Andreas Maurer
<REMOVE_TO_REP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Does anyone know if his Nimbus 4DM has had special
>modifications to increase the vne at altitude, or does
>he just not care about operating limitations?
Exceeding the standard Vne was not necesary for this record flight.
I don't have the POH of the Nimbus at hand, but the DG-1000 numbers
are this:
http://dg-flugzeugbau.de/Handbuecher/flugh-1000s-d.pdf page 2.3
Vne (IAS) at sea level: 270 kp/h
Vne (IAS) at 8.000m: 205 kp/h IAS = 317 kp/h TAS
TAS calculator here: http://www.flightplan.za.net/trueAirspeed.php
Given the 15 kp/h higher Vne of the Numbus 4D and a similar
Vne/altutude calculation scheme I expect a maximum legal TAS of about
325 kp/h at 8.000 m.
Bye
Andreas
Eric Greenwell
> Marc Ramsey wrote:
>> 306 km/hr true airspeed is 200 to 220 km/hr IAS at the 20000+ foot
>> altitudes used for these wave flights. Some gliders do require a
>> reduction in Vne at higher altitudes, but it isn't necessarily the
>> case that the limitation was exceeded.
>
> I find these sorts of discussions amusing. Do F1 drivers religiously
> follow redline engine speeds or anticipated braking limits for
> conditions when they're out to beat the next guy?
> Breaking records in aircraft is not analogous to driving the family SUV
> to the mall, or the 1-26 around a silver distance triangle. Speed
> limits and safe and reasonable don't apply. If it wasn't pushing the
> envelope, we'd all be doing it.
And that's why I think these discussions are interesting instead of
amusing. What risks are they taking, and how did they determine these
risks? Klaus does not seem a like a crazy man, so I suspect his risk
analysis would be very enlightening. And now we know it's a modified
Nimbus, so perhaps he is not taking any extra risk at all - even more
interesting! I hope we hear more about the modifications and how they
tested their effect.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org
Charles Crosby
> When you are cruising at 20,000' to 30,000', doesn't the effect of
> altitude cause IAS to be substantially less than ground speed?
That is indeed true. However, there are aeroelastic concerns (such as
flutter) which may result in a lower indicated vne at high altitude.
Charles
P. Corbett
(Sorry...a private Tehachapi Soaring joke)
Paul
ZZ
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
news:emir2s$kik$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
http://home.comcast.net/~johan.larson/soaring/the-long-ride-home.html
The Long Ride Home
Harold Peterson
This article originally appeared in the August 1, 1966 issue of Sports
Illustrated. David Stevenson provided the issue of SI for scanning.
' "We're plagued with people who want to emphasize the danger," George said.
"Just flying a sailplane around is safer than power flying. One fundamental
safety factor is the soft landing. You have marvelous control-anywhere
between a 40 degree approach with full dive breaks to 3 degrees with none.
In contest or record flight, of course, you're definitely stretching a
little. On a glide you may easily reach 150 mph where the placard speed is
listed at 86." Placard speed is that beyond which the manufacturer makes no
guarantee that things will not start coming off. '
[Quoting George Moffat. G.T.]
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
Tim Taylor
Tim
5Z
On Dec 22, 7:57 pm, "Paul Remde" <p...@remde.us> wrote:
> "Today, Dec 22nd 2006 at 1:00 AM UTC, Klaus Ohlmann called me on the phone
> just after landing to let me know he have made a 500 Km flight at 306 km/h
> on average in a Nimbus 4DM... this could be the first above 300 km/h and for
> far, the fastest glider flight made under FAI rules."
So I was poking around on OLC and found a number his flights. On Dec
22, he did fly, but it was a 1000 km triangle attempt that he
abandoned. Was the flight on a nother day? I found his other two
claimed flights as reported by the FAI below.
Congratulations!
FAI has received the following Class D (Gliders) record claims :
====================================================================
Claim number : 14380
Sub-class DO (Open Class Gliders)
General Category
Type of record : Speed over a triangular course of 100 km
Course/location : Zapala (Argentina)
Performance : 289.7 km/h
Pilot : Klaus OHLMANN (Germany)
Crew : FECHINO Esteban (Argentine)
Glider : Schempp-Hirth Nimbus 4 DM
Date: 18.12.2006
Current record : 249.09 km/h (01.12.2003 - Horacio MIRANDA, Argentina)
====================================================================
Claim number : 14381
Sub-class DO (Open Class Gliders)
General Category
Type of record : Speed over an out-and-return course of 500 km
Course/location : Zapala (Argentina)
Performance : 275.8 km/h
Pilot : Klaus OHLMANN (Germany)
Crew : JANSEN David (Australia)
Glider : Schempp-Hirth Nimbus 4 DM
Date: 16.12.2006
Current record : 247.49 km/h (03.03.1999 - James M. PAYNE, USA)
====================================================================
-Tom
SAM 303a
I too would like to understand the mods and the risk analysis for this
flight.
"Marc Ramsey" <ma...@ranlog.comREMOVE> wrote in message
news:UQ4jh.8678$ZT3....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Andreas Maurer
<brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom> wrote:
>To average 306 he certainly exceeded that speed for much of the flight.
>I too would like to understand the mods and the risk analysis for this
>flight.
Klaus if flying a company-modified Nimbus 4 DM which allows a Vne of
260 km/h IAS at 6.000 meters.
260 kp/h IAS at 6.000m = 350 kp/h TAS.
Bye
Andreas
SAM 303a
He probably bumped that limit a few times too, but I suppose that's what
limits and record-setting flights are all about.
"Andreas Maurer" <mau...@funsystem.de> wrote in message
news:09dap29i5v23rk53v...@4ax.com...
J. Nieuwenhuize
Andreas Maurer schreef:
Can you explain which mods have been done? Shortened wingtips and
strengthened tail boom?
Andreas Maurer
<Jarno.Nie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Can you explain which mods have been done? Shortened wingtips and
>strengthened tail boom?
No idea - I'm pretty sure an email to Shempp Hirth will clear matters.
Probably simply stiffer wings/wing flaps.
Bye
Andreas
Andreas Maurer
<brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom> wrote:
>Cool.
>He probably bumped that limit a few times too,
Bold statement.
Do you have *any* proof at all...?
Bye
Andreas
SAM 303a
above 306 and some time below 306, right?
Not sure what you're reacting to--I made no accusation. By "bumped the
limit" I mean he went 325, probably for a good bit of the flight. Good on
him. Bad on me if "bumped the limit" is too idiomatic a phrase for an
international forum such as this.
The full text of my post was
>Cool.
>He probably bumped that limit a few times too, but I suppose that's what
>limits and record-setting flights are all about.
"Andreas Maurer" <mau...@funsystem.de> wrote in message
news:6pfdp29kf69hge03n...@4ax.com...
Andreas Maurer
<brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom> wrote:
> By "bumped the
>limit" I mean he went 325, probably for a good bit of the flight. Good on
>him. Bad on me if "bumped the limit" is too idiomatic a phrase for an
>international forum such as this.
The limit for this particular Nimnus 4 DM is (as mentioned several
times in this thread before) 350 kp/h TAS or 260 kp/h IAS at 6.000
meters.
So he didn't need to bump any limit at all... ;)
Happy new year!
Bye
Andreas
Stefan
> The limit for this particular Nimnus 4 DM is (as mentioned several
> times in this thread before) 350 kp/h TAS or 260 kp/h IAS at 6.000
Ok, now after you mentioned it several times, I'd finally like to know:
What the hell is a kp/h?
Markus Graeber
Kilometers per hour, more commonly refered to as km/h (1 km/h = 0.62
mph = 0.54 knots for those of you who are metrically challenged... :-)
Markus
Tony Verhulst
>> Ok, now after you mentioned it several times, I'd finally like to know:
>> What the hell is a kp/h?
>
> Kilometers per hour, more commonly refered to as km/h (1 km/h = 0.62
> mph = 0.54 knots for those of you who are metrically challenged... :-)
Yes. Not to be pedantic, but if the 'p' form is used, it's 'kph'
(kilometers per hour} and never 'kp/h' (kilometers per per hour).
Tony V. LS6-b "6N"
Stefan
>> What the hell is a kp/h?
>
> Kilometers per hour, more commonly refered to as km/h (1 km/h = 0.62
> mph = 0.54 knots for those of you who are metrically challenged... :-)
Ah, km/h! I was wondering all the time what the hell he might be
measuring in kiloponds per hour. I finally guessed it must be the rate
of water dump, but this didn't really make any sense...
Andreas Maurer
wrote:
To be completely correct, it probably needs to be named kmph
(KiloMeters Per Hour), but since I've seen the term kph or kp/h used
by many metrically challenged people on ras, I decided to use this
term... ;)
Bye
Andreas