PHI Union Vote
Bill Sykes
Well folks, I said I would update you when PHI had their vote. There
were approximately 600 eligable pilots of which 42% voted for the
union, and 58% voted against. However the union has conteseted the
vote due to illegal management interference. The review process should
take 30 to 60 days, and if the company was found to have illegally
interfered with the organization attempt, a new election will be held.
Also the Mediation Board could recognize the effort as being
successful and PHI would automatically have a union. This latter
senario is unlikely however.
Being that I work for Air Log, I can only express the deep
disappointment that I and fellow Air Log pilots feel over these
results. The union drive originally began at PHI and we were asked to
join in. We did, and having settled the key issues in the past, we
were fast tracked to an early vote, ahead of PHI. So we voted with the
assurance that PHI would follow shortly with a positive result. We
knew the risk when we voted,(IE: losing contracts), but we felt sure
that PHI would follow suit. Also we have a management team that was
not going to listen to us without the union.
So I can only say that I'm dissapointed in my fellow pilots at PHI who
sat on the fence, or worse, hope to gain market share because oil
companies don't want to deal with union companies in the Gulf. The
latter is what bothers me the most. We took a stand to improve our
livelihood, no matter what color helicopter a pilot flew. We took a
stand to improve our profession as a whole. Hell, even Kathy Kocks of
Rotor and Wing said it was time for a change in an editorial in the
magazine. We had a chance to turn our industry around like the airline
pilots did for themselves. But our brethern in yellow decided not to.
I sincerely hope that they did not sell our industry short for a
chance to gain a couple of contracts. And I hope that if given a
second chance that they will see a bigger picture and join us in
making this a profession, not just a job!
But let me not give anyone the impression that the pilots at Air Log
feel doomed. We will continue to give our customers the best service,
while improving our personal gains. And we will have a contract that
will do away with memo management, and make management look hard into
the future to fulfill that contract. When the boom starts to fade in a
few years as it always does, and the management at PHI looks to cut
the gains they gave so generously now, think back on the chance you
had to assure yourselves a future that you controlled and that did not
control you.
Best of luck in the years ahead,
Bill Sykes
Scotmeistr
I agree with you Bill. I'm not a big union fan, but the boys and girls in
the gulf have been abused by their employers for a long time. If any
segment of this industry needs a union the Gulf is it. I for one was
hopeful that PHI would go union. IMHO I thought that it would raise the
bottom rung on the latter (no offense to anyone flying in the gulf). Lets
face it, if the historically poorest paying job in the industry just got
significantly better, I'm inclined to think that there would be a "trickle
up effect" for the rest of the industry. In not voting in a union PHI
pilots may have in effect hurt themselves by maintaining the status quo for
the rest of the industry. When the time comes for them to leave PHI, things
will not have gotten significantly better elsewhere.
cbateman
Scotmeistr <scotm...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970906141...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> I agree with you Bill. I'm not a big union fan, but the boys and girls in
> the gulf have been abused by their employers for a long time. If any
> segment of this industry needs a union the Gulf is it. I for one was
> hopeful that PHI would go union.
>snip<
Why would "the boys and girls in the gulf" stay there if they "have been
abused by their employers"???? Doesn't sound like they need a union,
they just need to leave! No supply/high demand.... Then there would be
a reason to get paid more (or whatever they want). But if there is high
supply and low demand.... well,,, what do you expect?
The forces of a free market are irresistable!
Bill Sykes
"cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com> wrote:
First off, I take it you have never worked in the Gulf of Mexico for a
Part 135 helicopter operator, or a Part 135 operator period. I would
be curious to know what it is you do, because I know it's not flying
helicopters! Otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid statement.
As for supply and demand, we have hired and trained over 80 pilots
this year alone. The demand is great and the supply of "qualified"
pilots is low. We have lost at least half of these people due to other
companies paying higher starting pay. Some don't like flying over
water, and the rest just don't feel comfortable flying by themselves
as opposed to being part of a crew like they were in the service. Some
of these guys left when they saw what thier accomadations would be.The
point being turnover has been a bitch, but it has had no effect on
management. They just lower the standards a little more and hire less
qualified people. Meanwhile those of us who have been doing this fora
while aren't getting anything but more work.
I find your statement about leaving very contrite. While I'm not happy
with the current pay, I'm not going to leave to go somewhere else to
be paid way less. And leaving is not always the answer. Sometimes you
have to stay and try to change things or it won't be better for anyone
else, anywhere else. The airline pilots proved that a long time ago.
The CEO of my company is famous for saying, "If you don't like it, hit
the bricks". This statement infuriates me in that I have spent over 17
years "producing" revenue for this company. My sweat, my experience,
my license, and my ass are on the line every time I strap in and
"produce" revenue. He cannot "produce" revenue because he is neither a
pilot or mechanic.
Just a quick lesson about Part 135 charter companies, you can own all
the aircraft in the world, but unless they are flown and maintained,
they don't make a cent. So why screw with the people who produce your
revenue? Especially when those people are licensed professionals with
a lot of experience.
The way I see it, we are both employees of the company. (It is a
publically held company and he is not a major stockholder.) Our goals
are basically the same: To have a strong, viable company that provides
safe, efficient, and reliable service to our customers. To make our
company a leader in the industry, and the company of choice. But while
I'm out "doing" this, this SOB is thinking of ways to try to cut my
pay and benefits. And not because we are losing money.To the contrary,
we are exceedingly fiscally sound. He just happens to be an accountant
that can't stop trying to get more for less. Instead of sharing the
wealth with those that produce the revenue, he has chosen to reward
those who don't produce a dime.
>The forces of a free market are irresistable!
As for this statement, the word free is used a lot in this country.
Managers like to say you are "free" to leave if you don't like it.
Very few say you are "free" to form a union to negotiate a legally
binding contract that the company will have to live up to. (And then
let you "free"ly do it.) And then there are our customers (the oil
companies) who say they will not use a company that is union. I guess
it depends upon whose "free"doms you impose upon.
In the pursuit of happiness,
Bill Sykes
Doug Friend
bsy...@iamerica.net (Bill Sykes) writes:
> "cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com> wrote:
>
> >Why would "the boys and girls in the gulf" stay there if they "have been
> >abused by their employers"???? Doesn't sound like they need a union,
> >they just need to leave! No supply/high demand.... Then there would be
> >a reason to get paid more (or whatever they want). But if there is high
> >supply and low demand.... well,,, what do you expect?
(trimmed)
> As for supply and demand, we have hired and trained over 80 pilots
> this year alone. The demand is great and the supply of "qualified"
> pilots is low. We have lost at least half of these people due to other
> companies paying higher starting pay.
I'm just a grunt engineer, but one of the comments I have heard is that
there is so much competition between the helo companies that they are
effectively cutting their own wrists to get contracts. By under
bidding
contracts in order to win them, they are forcing cost reductions at the
operations level. In turn, the other companies are forced to do the
same. Any comments?
Scotmeistr
cbateman Wrote:
>Why would "the boys and girls in the gulf" stay there if they "have been
>abused by their employers"???? Doesn't sound like they need a union,
>they just need to leave! No supply/high demand.... Then there would be
>a reason to get paid more (or whatever they want). But if there is high
>supply and low demand.... well,,, what do you expect?
>
>The forces of a free market are irresistable!
>
>
>
Yeah sure run away. That sounds like a solution. You are obviously not a
commercial helicopter pilot. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the terms
Monopoly and Oligopoly. Perhaps you are unaware of the investment both
civilian and military pilots make in their careers. Perhaps you are
unaware that there are people out there stupid enough to buy a flying job
because they think that being a pilot would be cool. PHI recently paired
up with Flight Safety and mentioned starting an "Internship" program at
PHI. This can be interpreted as "Your co-pilot is paying for this ride so
let him touch the controls - train him well, because he'll be replacing you
in a few months."
cbateman
Bill Sykes <bsy...@iamerica.net> wrote in article
<5uvq87$i...@news1.iamerica.net>...
> "cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com> wrote:
>
> >Scotmeistr <scotm...@aol.com> wrote in article
> First off, I take it you have never worked in the Gulf of Mexico for a
> Part 135 helicopter operator, or a Part 135 operator period. I would
> be curious to know what it is you do, because I know it's not flying
> helicopters! Otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid statement.
>
Really now. What do you think I do? sit around reading news groups all
day? Or should I fire off that you must not be a very skilled
pilot/negotiator because you can't get a good paying job?
>
> I find your statement about leaving very contrite. While I'm not happy
> with the current pay, I'm not going to leave to go somewhere else to
> be paid way less. And leaving is not always the answer. Sometimes you
> have to stay and try to change things or it won't be better for anyone
> else, anywhere else. The airline pilots proved that a long time ago.
>
> snip >
> >The forces of a free market are irresistable!
>
> As for this statement, the word free is used a lot in this country.
> Managers like to say you are "free" to leave if you don't like it.
> Very few say you are "free" to form a union to negotiate a legally
> binding contract that the company will have to live up to. (And then
> let you "free"ly do it.) And then there are our customers (the oil
> companies) who say they will not use a company that is union. I guess
> it depends upon whose "free"doms you impose upon.
>
Certainly you are "free" to form a union and make yourself a commodity!
I'll take 3 pilots and a case of oil please!
Bill Sykes
"cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com> wrote:
>Bill Sykes <bsy...@iamerica.net> wrote in article
><5uvq87$i...@news1.iamerica.net>...
>> "cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com> wrote:
>>
>> First off, I take it you have never worked in the Gulf of Mexico for a
>> Part 135 helicopter operator, or a Part 135 operator period. I would
>> be curious to know what it is you do, because I know it's not flying
>> helicopters! Otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid statement.
>>
>Really now. What do you think I do? sit around reading news groups all
>day? Or should I fire off that you must not be a very skilled
>pilot/negotiator because you can't get a good paying job?
Well slick, the problem is I make just enough to make leaving and
starting at the bottom somewhere else, a very dumb move.
Normally I don't talk about my ratings or time, but seeing that you
wish to call my skills into play, here it is.
I have over 11,000 hours of accident free flying, and I hold an ATP
Rotorcraft with S-76 and B206 type ratings. I also hold a Commercial
instrument mutiengine fixed wing rating.
I was a Warrant Officer/Aviator in the Army, rated in the UH1H,
AH1G&S, and OH58A & C models. I was a CH-47 Helicopter Repairman prior
to WOC school.
I'm currently an S-76 IFR Captain servicing the oil industry in the
Gulf, and have done so for over 17 years. I also maintain currency in
several Bell helicopters.
Frankly, I'm not impressed with numbers, so I would invite you to ask
the pilots I work and fly with, if they feel I'm competent. I wouldn't
be afraid of the answers.
As for my negotiation skills, well I admit to being a little rough
around the edges. You see, I say what I feel in my heart, and is on my
mind. Usually a bit too directly, or unabashidly. I do know how to use
tact, but I don't waste it on people who lie, act superior, or talk
nonsense. I also know that I don't have all the answers, but I can
spot a problem 99% of the time. But it doesn't keep me from trying to
solve it.
But you still haven't told us what it is you do. From the tone of your
comments I'd guess you are a corporate pilot who wears a suit and tie
while flying, but is busier steppin' and fetchin' ice and cold drinks
for the bar in the aircraft. When not doing this you polish the
aircraft, read trade magazines, and get on the company computer to
access the internet for this newsgroup. Was that your beeper? <g>
So enlighten us as to the qualifications you have, to make the smart
ass comments you make.
>>
>> I find your statement about leaving very contrite. While I'm not happy
>> with the current pay, I'm not going to leave to go somewhere else to
>> be paid way less. And leaving is not always the answer. Sometimes you
>> have to stay and try to change things or it won't be better for anyone
>> else, anywhere else. The airline pilots proved that a long time ago.
>>
>> snip >
>> >The forces of a free market are irresistable!
>>
>> As for this statement, the word free is used a lot in this country.
>> Managers like to say you are "free" to leave if you don't like it.
>> Very few say you are "free" to form a union to negotiate a legally
>> binding contract that the company will have to live up to. (And then
>> let you "free"ly do it.) And then there are our customers (the oil
>> companies) who say they will not use a company that is union. I guess
>> it depends upon whose "free"doms you impose upon.
>>
>Certainly you are "free" to form a union and make yourself a commodity!
>I'll take 3 pilots and a case of oil please!
^ What in the hell does this mean?
LghtngHelo
>Subject: Re: PHI Union Vote
>From: "cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com>
>Date: 9 Sep 1997 01:50:03 GMT
>Message-id: <01bcbcc4$0bcfa220$a795...@plinet.com.plinet.com>
>
>
>
>Bill Sykes <bsy...@iamerica.net> wrote in article
><5uvq87$i...@news1.iamerica.net>...
>> "cbateman" <cbat...@plinet.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Scotmeistr <scotm...@aol.com> wrote in article
>> First off, I take it you have never worked in the Gulf of Mexico for a
>> Part 135 helicopter operator, or a Part 135 operator period. I would
>> be curious to know what it is you do, because I know it's not flying
>> helicopters! Otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid statement.
>>
>Really now. What do you think I do? sit around reading news groups all
>day? Or should I fire off that you must not be a very skilled
>pilot/negotiator because you can't get a good paying job?
>
>>
>> I find your statement about leaving very contrite. While I'm not happy
>> with the current pay, I'm not going to leave to go somewhere else to
>> be paid way less. And leaving is not always the answer. Sometimes you
>> have to stay and try to change things or it won't be better for anyone
>> else, anywhere else. The airline pilots proved that a long time ago.
>>
>> snip >
>> >The forces of a free market are irresistable!
>>
>> As for this statement, the word free is used a lot in this country.
>> Managers like to say you are "free" to leave if you don't like it.
>> Very few say you are "free" to form a union to negotiate a legally
>> binding contract that the company will have to live up to. (And then
>> let you "free"ly do it.) And then there are our customers (the oil
>> companies) who say they will not use a company that is union. I guess
>> it depends upon whose "free"doms you impose upon.
>>
>Certainly you are "free" to form a union and make yourself a commodity!
>I'll take 3 pilots and a case of oil please!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stan Gosnell
I don't believe that any PHI pilots voted no in order to get market
share. PHI already has more than 50% of the market, & right now can't
keep up with the work. PHI is regularly turning down work because of
equipment shortage. The vote was negative for the reasons it has
always been negative - pilots are too independent, & most are pretty
conservative & right-wing, just opposed to unions in general. I would
be surprised if Air Log lost a significant portion of their contracts,
because the oil companies are not as opposed to unions as the
companies would like everyone to believe. They are totally unionized
at their refineries.
It was a close vote even so, & if things don't change within a year, I
think another vote would succeed. The company pleaded for time to
make things better, & a lot of pilots believed it & voted no, but will
vote yes in a year if things are not significantly better. I think
lease rates will rise a lot, & wages will go up. As bad as it is for
pilots, it is worse for A&P mechanics, & they are leaving in droves.
Something has to be done to keep them.
Stan Gosnell
douglas...@gtri.gatech.edu (Doug Friend) wrote:
>I'm just a grunt engineer, but one of the comments I have heard is that
>there is so much competition between the helo companies that they are
>effectively cutting their own wrists to get contracts. By under
>bidding
>contracts in order to win them, they are forcing cost reductions at the
>operations level. In turn, the other companies are forced to do the
>same. Any comments?
>
True, true. That's why the only companies in the Gulf not making tons
of money are helicopter companies. Actually the big companies are
holding the rates down trying to crowd out the smaller companies, &
hurting themselves just as badly.