I'm lost. Which compass?
Kitepilot
right frame tube that goes from the roof to the engine mount). I tried the
Sacramento Sky Ranch thing and didn't work...
(http://www.sacskyranch.com/degauss.htm):
Sooooo...
My compass is *IMPOSSIBLE* to adjust. I have ~30 degs off in the worst
heading. Only 240 works...
I want a compass. As good as it looks, I am not very fond of the Vertical
Card Compass. I believe is one more thing to break down at the worst
moment. I may change mi mind on that one though...
The question is:
If you needed the *MOST* heavily compensated compass in existence (I did
read of one with 4 compensating magnets but I can't find it anymore... ):
either "conventional" or "vertical", which one is the *ONE*?
Thanks for your input!
Enrique A. Troconis
http://www.kitepilot.com/
http://www.kitepilot.com/viking
J.S.
Compensation is always possible. Think of the big steel ships. But, today,
you can forget about magnetic compasses and go directly to the GPS. If you
dislike GPSs, you could always use a gyrocompass. They are very expensive,
however.
Rgds
Javier
"Kitepilot" <kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:Vxrf8.23449$0C1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> My Viking has a *VERY* strong *MAGNETIC* field on its own (apparently the
> right frame tube that goes from the roof to the engine mount). I tried
the
> Sacramento Sky Ranch thing and didn't work...
> (http://www.sacskyranch.com/degauss.htm):
>
> Sooooo...
>
> My compass is *IMPOSSIBLE* to adjust. I have ~30 degs off in the worst
> heading. Only 240 works...
>
> I want a compass. As good as it looks, I am not very fond of the Vertical
> Card Compass. I believe is one more thing to break down at the worst
> moment. I may change mi mind on that one though...
>
> The question is:
> If you needed the *MOST* heavily compensated compass in existence (I did
> read of one with 4 compensating magnets but I can't find it
Jim Weir
work? Or that you used something *like* the SSR machine? I have yet to
find an airplane that couldn't be cleaned up with the SSR degausser. That
sucker would pull the wahoozies off a brass monkey.
And, if you get another compass, don't buy a Tate's. Everybody I know says
he who has a Tate's is lost.
{;-)
Jim
"Kitepilot" <kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> wrote in message
news:Vxrf8.23449$0C1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Jack Cunniff
> Compensation is always possible. Think of the big steel ships. But, today,
>you can forget about magnetic compasses and go directly to the GPS. If you
>dislike GPSs, you could always use a gyrocompass. They are very expensive,
>however.
Have you ever read a posting and said "Oh, this is just trolling, nobody
could possibly believe this to be true..." I think the above posting shall
garner some feedback, such as a short discussion comparing "course" and
"bearing". No doubt someone will comment about compasses being on the day
VFR minimum equipment list, too.
-Jack
Malcolm Teas
> heading. Only 240 works...
Go west young man!
Jay Honeck
It's the first thing I'm going to add to our new bird. (I CAN'T believe I
just installed one in our Warrior six weeks ago! Stupid.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Warrior N33431
Peter Duniho
news:Qmwf8.23145$Dv1.75003@rwcrnsc53...
> Get the vertical card compass. It is fabulous.
AFAIK, that won't solve the problem Kitepilot is having though.
Paul Tomblin
>"J.S." <j.su...@bitmailer.net> writes:
>> Compensation is always possible. Think of the big steel ships. But, today,
>>you can forget about magnetic compasses and go directly to the GPS. If you
>"bearing". No doubt someone will comment about compasses being on the day
>VFR minimum equipment list, too.
The regs don't say how accurate the compass must be, nor do they say you
actually have to use it.
About the only time I use the DG rather than the HSI display on my GPS in
daytime VFR is when ATC says "Fly heading 240" and the wind is strong
enough to matter. I use the mag compass only to check the DG before take
off and before checking in with approach control in case they vector me.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
A bleeding heart can be hell on the carpeting.
Jack Cunniff
>Get the vertical card compass. It is fabulous.
>It's the first thing I'm going to add to our new bird. (I CAN'T believe I
>just installed one in our Warrior six weeks ago! Stupid.)
Misery loves company, Jay. I did the same thing - owned my first PAI-700
for about three months, then it was sold with the plane. I had the new
plane (and old compass) for a few months before I had to spring for the
compass.
(I was SO happy to have it during partial panel approaches during my IFR
training, though - it really makes things easier to sort out.)
-Jack
--
jm...@NOSPAMworld.std.com
Jim Weir
> It's the first thing I'm going to add to our new bird.
I haven't seen any postings lately. What did you finally wind up with?
(I CAN'T believe I
> just installed one in our Warrior six weeks ago! Stupid.)
So pull it out before you peddle it.
Jim
Ken Sandyeggo
>
> And, if you get another compass, don't buy a Tate's. Everybody I know says
> he who has a Tate's is lost.
>
> {;-)
>
>
> Jim
He who "has a Tate's is lost?" That's like when I was a kid and the
produce clerks at the supermarket would throw oranges into a juicer
machine in the produce department that would make orange juice, and
then empty it into a bottle for you. One day my grandma forgot to get
her oranges "squoze" by the machine and didn't remember until she was
in the checkout line. She asked the young man packing her groceries
to do it for her, and he said; "Sorry, but baggers can't be juicers."
Sorry about that.
Ken J. - SDCAUSA
Kitepilot
> I haven't seen any postings lately. What did you finally wind up with?
PS: Jay SWAP THEM!!! :)
Kitepilot
the cowling off and could reach in the engine area, but in order to cover
the whole tube, I have to take apart the panel, the windshield, the whole
$#!%& front of the plane, you get the picture...
The next best thing is to install a compass that can be compensated. The
Vertical one has an extra compensating magnet, but I duno, duno...
Enrique A. Troconis
http://www.kitepilot.com/
http://www.kitepilot.com/viking
"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote in message
news:u7so43...@corp.supernews.com...
Mark Ambrose
close. I solved the problem by purchasing an electronic compass that uses
magneto-induction sensing. I don't recall the manufacturer but the unit I
bought is called the "Co-Pilot". I paid $59 for it at Sun-n-Fun at one of the
major booths (I think it was Aircraft Spruce). It's dead on. Is self
compensating has a back light for night flying, is all solid state, runs on
batteries or can be wired to the aircraft 12V system. It has a digital readout,
plus an analog pointer and compass rose. I love it.
Forget 2,000 year old technology. Use state-of-the-art military stuff.
Mark
Maryland
Jim Weir
not?
Jim
"Kitepilot" <kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> wrote in message
news:rYxf8.24528$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I believe that the frame is so magnetized that it is unreachable.
> > Are you saying you used the Sac Sky Ranch machine itself
Kitepilot
*EXACTLY* like the one in SSR site, down to the packaging.
I used it as of the instructions on the WEB site.
I know that it output the Hell of a magnetic field, when it stuck to the
frame you had to wrestle it free.
And It was noisy... :)
"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote in message
news:u7tb6fo...@corp.supernews.com...
Jay Honeck
I CAN'T -- we're selling our bird to good friends, who already know it's in
the plane! :(
Jay Honeck
that it tends to "lose its mind" every few weeks, and have to be "re-swung".
This involves making two, 360 turns. Easy enough in a car; not so good in
IMC.
It's dead-nuts accurate, until THAT happens!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Warrior N33431
"Mark Ambrose" <mark.a...@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote in message
news:3C7EA952...@gsfc.nasa.gov...
Kitepilot
> I CAN'T -- we're selling our bird to good friends, who already know it's
in
> the plane! :(
SHOOT THEM!!! (after they pay... :)
Jay Honeck
> SHOOT THEM!!! (after they pay... :)
And after they bring the beer.... ;)
Do Daddy
Jim Weir
**THEN** come back and tell us it didn't work. I have no idea how your
"friend" got one to look just like the SSR machine, as John Schwaner did the
design himself. I doubt sincerely he sold the design. That does not sound
like John.
And I'm starting to smell troll. The degaussers put out an AC magnetic
field that will **NOT** stick to the frame. I'm suspecting something isn't
all on the up and up with this posting.
Jim
"Kitepilot" <kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> wrote in message
news:FTyf8.24715$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Kitepilot
trolls.
I have a friend who in good faith believes he has a machine that, again,
*HE* believes, is the same machine as the one in SSR. I *DO NOT* have any
reason to believe that this person is BSing me because he is a mechanic who
in good faith has given advice that I have sometimes taken (like in the
machine) and sometimes not taken (because I correlate what he says with
other information that I mostly get from this invaluable resource)
He told me the story about how he got the machine and was credible, but in
light that the machine *LOOKED* like the one I have seen in the picture, I
didn't pay too much attention to the story and went ahead using the machine.
He forewarned me, though, that someone else had used the machine before
without outstanding results.
The area magnetized in my plane is underneath a windshield, aluminum sheets,
and in general, very inaccessible. The strength I saw in the magnetic field
generated from this thing was strong enough to overcome my arm at some
points and stick to the steel. In my book, magnetic fields attract magnetic
particles.
I am far from an expert and I own an airplane because the Internet exists.
I use this resource to post *VALID* question and evaluate reasonable (at
least reasonable to me) answers. I respect the time and effort that people
put in answering my questions and is *NOT*, neither has ever been, my
intention, to post a troll to waste people's time and bandwidth.
I have a real problem for which I am seeking real solutions. The fact that
some people may unintentionally mislead me, doesn't make them untrusty and
doesn't make my concerns a troll.
Jim, I respect you for the way you conduct yourself in this group and
probably most people agree with me. I don't expect anyone to respect me for
any reason, but I appreciate people who refrain from making shallow
accusations without taking enough time to research the facts.
Thanks
Enrique A. Troconis
http://www.kitepilot.com/
http://www.kitepilot.com/viking
"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote in message
news:u7uafao...@corp.supernews.com...
Marc Whisman
He's always done what he said when he said as such I have the deapest
respect for him. Lighten up Jim.
regards
-Marc
marcw at sprintmail dot com
"Kitepilot" <kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> wrote in message
news:X9Mf8.26144$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Jerry Malin
We installed a vertical card compass in our Warrior, and love it.
Unfortunately, it was not as accurate as I had hoped. It was off quite
far in some directions.
So we bought some Compensator Balls. These are two little balls that
hang down on either side of the compass and compensate for stray
magnetic fields of the plane.
Now the compass is within one degree everywhere except one heading which
is off by three degrees. It made a considerable difference.
The compensator balls were about $39 from Aircraft Spruce and were made
to screw on the back of our PAI-700 vertical card compass.
Jerry
Warrior N82045
Joe Maj
> The regs don't say how accurate the compass must be, nor do they say you
> actually have to use it.
Check FAA publication AC 43-13. Maximum allowable deviation is 10
degrees in any direction.
Another tidbit I heard: never use a 120V electric tool inside a steel
tube fuselage.
Ron Rosenfeld
<kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> wrote:
>My Viking has a *VERY* strong *MAGNETIC* field on its own (apparently the
>right frame tube that goes from the roof to the engine mount). I tried the
>Sacramento Sky Ranch thing and didn't work...
>(http://www.sacskyranch.com/degauss.htm):
>
>Sooooo...
>
>My compass is *IMPOSSIBLE* to adjust. I have ~30 degs off in the worst
>heading. Only 240 works...
>
>I want a compass. As good as it looks, I am not very fond of the Vertical
>Card Compass. I believe is one more thing to break down at the worst
>moment. I may change mi mind on that one though...
>
>The question is:
>If you needed the *MOST* heavily compensated compass in existence (I did
>read of one with 4 compensating magnets but I can't find it anymore... ):
>either "conventional" or "vertical", which one is the *ONE*?
>
>Thanks for your input!
>Enrique A. Troconis
>http://www.kitepilot.com/
>http://www.kitepilot.com/viking
>
>
Are you familiar with the S.I.R.S compass?
I don't have one, but will try it on my next replacement.
It is more highly damped than the usual small a/c compass, and also has
both EW and NS magnets to enable better swinging.
I have an old Mooney with magnetized elements. They can be successfully
degaussed, but regain their magnetism within a few weeks. Mooney's fix
involves about 40 hours of labor! I put in a remote sensing Hamilton
compass, but would not recommend it. When/if it breaks again, I will put
in the S.I.R.S
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)
Richard L. Watson
adjusted compasses on over 1000 steel vessels, including navy ships. A few
facts.
1. It is no problem to adjust a compass with over 35 degrees of error. I have
successfully adjusted compasses in vessels with so much deviation that the
compass card would not even move.
2. The soft iron balls on the side of a compass in steel vessels, and I suspect
the add on balls for the vertical card compass are to correct for induced
magnetism in the airframe or vessel. The primary adjusters are magnets that are
either moved, or rotated and adjust for deviation ONLY on N, S, E, and W
MAGNETIC headings. The airframe, or vessel has permanent magnetism in it and it
is corrected by the above magnets. The vessel also has magnetism induced into
it by the magnetic field of the earth. This is expressed differently depending
on the heading of the airframe or vessel and constantly changes with heading.
Since airplanes and ships are longer than they are wide, there is much more
ferrous material in a fore and aft direction than athwartships. As a result
soft iron inductors (the balls) are placed on each side of the compass. This
results in a more symmetrical induced field around the compass due to the
earth's magnetic field. These inductors are adjusted by moving them nearer or
further from the compass. They are adjusted on the 45 degree headings (045,
135, 225, and 315). It is important that the balls NOT BE PERMANENTLY
MAGNETIZED. This can be checked while the plane or vessel is standing still and
NOT changing heading. The balls are moved as close to the compass as possible
and rotated about their vertical axis one at a time. If they are magnetized,
the compass card will move. If they are not magnetized, it will not move. The
repair is to heat the balls red hot and allow them to cool slowly and naturally.
This de-magnetizes the. Then proceed with the compass adjustment.
3. It would be possible to adjust ANY permanent magnetic error due to deviation
with the placement of bar magnets that we call deck magnets around the compass.
On a boat, they are placed on the horizontal surface where the compass is
mounted or on vertical surfaces which are fore and aft or athwartships adjacent
to the compass. The n/s correctors are placed with their long axis athwartships
in front of or aft of the compass. The e/w correctors are placed with their
long axis fore and aft on the sides of the compass. Adjustment is made by
moving them nearer or closer to the compass. This might possibly be
accomplished with these magnets placed on top of the panel. If the magnet moves
the compass the wrong way, reverse it. When finished, the magnets have to be
screwed in place, so that they cannot move. IT MAY BE IMPOSSIBLE TO DO THIS ON
AN AIRPLANE. Why. It may be that the field from these magnets will screw up
the course deviation indicators for the VOR. I don't know the answer to the
question.
4. The best solution by far is to de-magnetize the airframe and remove the need
for the external magnets. There is no reason not to use the induced magnetism
balls.
--
Richard
TEXAS is not just a Place, Texas is a state of mind.
Kitepilot
http://www.sirs.co.uk/aircraft%20light.htm#Pegasus
http://www.sirsproducts.com/page5.html
Lets see...
"Ron Rosenfeld" <ronros...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:stav7ukectltjba1s...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:55:49 GMT, "Kitepilot"
> <kite...@DONTSPAMMEkitepilot.com> wrote:
>
> >My Viking has a *VERY* strong *MAGNETIC* field on its own (apparently the
> >right frame tube that goes from the roof to the engine mount). I tried
the
> >Sacramento Sky Ranch thing and didn't work...
> >(http://www.sacskyranch.com/degauss.htm):
> >
> >Sooooo...
> >
> >My compass is *IMPOSSIBLE* to adjust. I have ~30 degs off in the worst
> >heading. Only 240 works...
> >
> >I want a compass. As good as it looks, I am not very fond of the
Vertical
> >Card Compass. I believe is one more thing to break down at the worst
> >moment. I may change mi mind on that one though...
> >
> >The question is:
> >If you needed the *MOST* heavily compensated compass in existence (I did
> >read of one with 4 compensating magnets but I can't find it
Richard L. Watson
has both E/W AND N/S adjusters. All compasses have both.
Now to determine what type of magnetic problem you have.
1. If the compass can be corrected with the installed correctors so that E and
W are both correct, then the E/W internal adjusting magnet is sufficient.
2. Likewise for N/S.
3. If E/W and N/S are O.K. and it is off on 45, 135, 225, or 315, then you need
the soft iron inductor balls.
4. If NSEW are not correct, don't bother with the inductor balls yet. You have
to get NSEand W fixed first.
--
Richard
TEXAS is not just a Place, Texas is a state of mind.
"Richard L. Watson" <rwatson(no_spam)@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:YEOf8.8239$_m2.1...@feed.centurytel.net...
Paul Tomblin
>ptom...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote in message news:<a5m70q$404
>
>> The regs don't say how accurate the compass must be, nor do they say you
>> actually have to use it.
>
>Check FAA publication AC 43-13. Maximum allowable deviation is 10
>degrees in any direction.
Oops. Sorry about that. But they still don't say you have to use it.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com>, not speaking for anybody
USER, n.:
The word computer professionals use when they mean "idiot".
Jim Weir
In the first post, Enrique said that he had used the Sac Ranch degausser,
which I have used several times on both Mooneys and Bellancas (and a few
other steel tubies) with 100% success rate.
Then after three days of posts, I got sort of suspicious and asked a direct
question as to whether the degausser was in fact the SSR machine and got a
long rambling discourse on how much trouble it was to get at the magnetized
area.
After a THIRD posting with a redirect question, I was told:
a. It sure **looked** like the SSR machine
b. A friend **told** me it was just like the SSR machine
c. It was so strong that it had to be pulled off the steel tubes
Now, after spending three days with this thread, trying to unravel the
problem, we find out that the original statement was false. What sort of
deduction was I supposed to make?
And the statement about pulling the machine off the tubing told me that the
degausser, whatever it was, wasn't a degausser at all. There is NO residual
magnetism in a degausser by its very nature. My suspicion is that whatever
the thing was, it did far more harm than good.
Jim
"Marc Whisman" <mar...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:%vMf8.26193$0C1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Kitepilot
1.- My problem is my compass, not the Sacramento tool. I am neither
endorsing it nor questioning it. I had a long conversation with John in
Sacramento Sky Ranch a few minutes ago. He is the guru in the Degaussing
tool. I'll keep the conversation to myself as I never asked him for
authorization to broadcast anything we talked about, but I *CAN* say 3
things:
a) The tool I used most probably works exactly the same than the one they
rent. In fact, it is probably the same tool (John's words). The one
*IMPORTANT* thing my friend's tool lacks of is the metering tool.
b) The procedure I was using is not the one John recommends but he doesn't
know what effects my "system" would have.
c) The success rate for the tool is pretty high but it is *NOT* 100% (John's
words too).
2.- I have *NOT* made false statements. I *DID* say that I used the tool
from SSR and I should have properly explained that it was from a different
source to avoid misinterpretations, but I never indented nor implied that
the tool did not work as expected. I just say it didn't work for *ME*. The
fact that I misunderstood the intention of a subsequent question and
answered in other terms than expected doesn't mean that I am trolling. Nor
that I trying to. As I said, I am *FAR* from an expert and that's why I
seek help in this invaluable forum.
3.- I will not use anymore bandwidth to defend myself from bogus accusations
just out of respect to the people that uses this media for its intended
purposes.
Finally, I appreciate the help from well-intentioned people willing to help
in this forum. I will use the tool again as per the directions John gave me
and will post here the results I get. I will also notify John of my
results. He couldn't be more kind, helpful and curious.
Apologies to those inconvenienced with my "long rambling discourse".
I am done with this conversation.
Enrique A. Troconis
http://www.kitepilot.com/
http://www.kitepilot.com/viking
PS: Mark, I *TRULY* appreciate your supporting statement, tried to email
you privately with my thanks but the message bounced. No problem stating my
thanks to you publicly though.
"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote in message
news:u7vg0q4...@corp.supernews.com...
Dan Thomas
> close. I solved the problem by purchasing an electronic compass that uses
> magneto-induction sensing. I don't recall the manufacturer but the unit I
> bought is called the "Co-Pilot". I paid $59 for it at Sun-n-Fun at one of the
> major booths (I think it was Aircraft Spruce). It's dead on. Is self
> compensating has a back light for night flying, is all solid state, runs on
> batteries or can be wired to the aircraft 12V system. It has a digital readout,
> plus an analog pointer and compass rose. I love it.
>
> Forget 2,000 year old technology. Use state-of-the-art military stuff.
>
> Mark
> Maryland
It still won't make you legal. The law requires a self-powered
compass that can't go dead on you. At least here in Canada the law
does, and I suspect it's the same in the States.
I suspect as well that the argument about the degaussing tool
indicates that the tool being used here is a magnetic particle
magnetizer, which has an AC to DC converter in it so that the field
does not switch back and forth, and if this is the case the fella is
magnetizing his airplane, not demagnetizing it. He might also be
wrecking his compass if the tool gets too close to it.
I once owned an airplane that evidently had been left parked too
long facing East, and the steel tube frame had picked up the earth's
magnetic field. The compass was off a big bunch unless I was flying
East or close to it.
Dan
Ron Rosenfeld
<rwatson(no_spam)@centurytel.net> wrote:
>Some one stated that the Sirs compass
>has both E/W AND N/S adjusters. All compasses have both.
It may have been me. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the
Airpath has two internal magnets with which to do the adjustments, and the
S.I.R.S has four internal magnets. This supposedly allows it to be
compensated in sites that challenge other units.
Jim Vandervort
They seem to be more interested in that than the compass around here.
assa9
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:a5of02$k1b$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
Jay Honeck
> They seem to be more interested in that than the compass around here.
Doesn't that just crack you up?
Here you are, watching your compass bounce around five and ten degrees with
every bump, and you're supposed to refer to this bogus little card that says
to deduct two degrees for "North", or some such nonsense.
A correction card is actually somewhat valid on our vertical card compass,
since it's rock solid stable. But on a whisky compass? It's a joke!
Richard L. Watson
know. The Airpath does have adjusting magnets for both N/S and E/W. Airplane
compasses are really crappy compared with quality marine compasses.
--
Richard
TEXAS is not just a Place, Texas is a state of mind.
"Ron Rosenfeld" <ronros...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:38908ushhd1tnvcq3...@4ax.com...
Marc Whisman
relating all the info that you wanted. I am just making it clear that in my
dealings with Enrique he was always honest and did what he promised. I can
assure you he is not a "troll".
regards
-Marc
marcw at sprintmail dot com
"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote in message
news:u7vg0q4...@corp.supernews.com...
Ron Rosenfeld
<rwatson(no_spam)@centurytel.net> wrote:
>Airplane
>compasses are really crappy compared with quality marine compasses.
Is that also true for the compasses in air carrier a/c?
Are there any GA compasses that you would recommend as being clearly
superior to the Airpath?
Thanks.
--ron
Richard L. Watson
are large and you read the front of the card so that all of the directions are
laid out in front of you. A 5 inch compass for a commercial vessel will also
cost over $500. I have an airpath in my plane and my reasons are as follows.
They are very dependable and parts are readily available. I thought long and
hard about installing a vertical card compass, because after 100,000 miles on
the ocean, it makes me crazy to use a compass that reads backwards. Well, since
I only use it to set the gyro, that is not so hard to live with. The vertical
card compasses are not fluid damped and have tiny gears to change the horizontal
motion into a vertical card. The require some vibration in order to work, or so
I have read. The mechanism is very delicate. I don't want the most important
navigation instrument in my plane to be delicate!
The sirs compass looks very good, but it would cost a lot more by the time it is
installed. I have never seen one.
At any rate, I have gotten used to the dinky little airpath compass. I would
really like to have a bulkhead mount yacht compass with a front reading card
(you can see the entire top of the compass card), but they are large and it is
not legal to install one in a certificated airplane.
I don't know what compasses air carriers have in them.
Richard L. Watson
--
jerry wass
automotive engine crack finder--It does stick very tightly to metal
while energized, at which time you puff metallic powder at the suspect
area & it concentrates at edges of crack.----To DeGauss an area you need
a variac in the 110 V line to slowly ease off the AC Field.--You could
probably rent the magnetizer from any large auto machine shop over the
week end, the variac--well--someone else contribute that.
jerry wass
BOb U...
jerry wass wrote:
>> And I'm starting to smell troll. The degaussers put out an AC magnetic
>> field that will **NOT** stick to the frame. I'm suspecting something isn't
>> all on the up and up with this posting.
>>
>> Jim
>YES it Will---I have one--Jerry
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Heh, heh....
Funny how that is. <g>
BOb - AC magnets R us - U
Jim Weir
"jerry wass" <wassb...@tds.net> wrote in message
news:3C813295...@tds.net...
> Jim, he's nearly right in his statement.--the machine is typical of an
> automotive engine crack finder--It does stick very tightly to metal
> while energized, at which time you puff metallic powder at the suspect
> area & it concentrates at edges of crack.
Oh, dear God. This is unbelievable. You idiots are actually trying to
DEgauss something with a MAGNAFLUXER??? You deserve every bit of trouble
you are having.
----To DeGauss an area you need
> a variac in the 110 V line to slowly ease off the AC Field.--You could
> probably rent the magnetizer from any large auto machine shop over the
> week end, the variac--well--someone else contribute that.
You don't have a freakin' clue. No variac is necessary with a degausser.
The simple expedient of slowly drawing it away from the magnetized area
(something about flux density being the square of the distance) does the
degaussing 60 times a second.
Jim
Jim Weir
> YES it Will---I have one--Jerry
I'm sure you do. Why don't you try it out on your color TV chassis this
afternoon?
Jim
Jim Weir
"BOb U..." <r...@hotmail.net> wrote in message
news:so928u8pg4vjtsc3s...@4ax.com...
Bob...you don't actually mean you are buying into this stuff, do you? AC
magnets? Ahem.
Jim
Ron Rosenfeld
<rwatson(no_spam)@centurytel.net> wrote:
>The sirs compass looks very good, but it would cost a lot more by the time it is
>installed.
My attraction to it stems from the magnetism in my Mooney's airframe, and
the possibility that the SIRS can compensate for it.
I have no particular desire for a vertical card compass. I presently have
the Hamilton remote sensing vertical card compass (the actual compass is in
the tail). But I had to repair it a few years after installation, and the
cost was almost as much as buying one new! The company was not much fun to
deal with, either.
So if/when it breaks again, I'm considering trying the SIRS.
Bob U...
>> Heh, heh....
>> Funny how that is. <g>
>>
>>
>> BOb - AC magnets R us - U
>Bob...you don't actually mean you are buying into this stuff, do you? AC
>magnets? Ahem.
>
>Jim
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the spirit of scumbag behavior equivalent to Enron Corp...
I plead the 5th amendment.
BOb - ahem - U
me
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:33:59 -0800, "Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com>
wrote:
JStewart
>Bob...you don't actually mean you are buying into this stuff, do you? AC
>magnets? Ahem.
>
>Jim
Make an AC electromagnet out of a ferrous nail, some magnet wire, and
a high current 6.3VAC filament transformer or a Variac. Power the
electromagnet up and note that it does indeed attract ferrous metals.
If you are too lazy to do the experiment then simply click on this
link http://www.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magacem.htm and note the
demonstration. Also note in particular the conclusion, which reads,
"It's a magnet that can be turned on and off, and its magnetic
strength can be varied as the voltage to it is varied. One minor
difference, though, is that the end of the bolt is changing from a
North magnetic pole to a South magnetic pole and back again 60 (60Hz)
times a second!"
Also note that the AC powered electromagnets known as 'solenoids' in
dishwashers, clothes washers, dryers, etc. work quite well.
My hand held CRT degausser is nothing but an electromagnet powered by
standard household AC. It sticks quite strongly to ferrous metals.
Note that the airframe degausser in question
(http://www.sacskyranch.com/degaussi.htm) is also an electromagnet
powered by standard household AC current.
You have yet to offer a credible argument or citation in support of
your position that, "the degaussers put out an AC magnetic
field that will **NOT** stick to the frame." I suspect that this is
because no such credible argument or citation exists.
BOb U...
Stwea...@lycosmail.com wrote:
>"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote:
>
>>Bob...you don't actually mean you are buying into this stuff, do you? AC
>>magnets? Ahem.
>>
>>Jim
>
>Make an AC electromagnet out of a ferrous nail, some magnet wire, and
>a high current 6.3VAC filament transformer or a Variac. Power the
>electromagnet up and note that it does indeed attract ferrous metals.
>If you are too lazy to do the experiment then simply click on this
>link http://www.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magacem.htm and note the
>demonstration.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nice goin', Mr. Stewart.
I may be too lazy for this experiment at my advanced age.....
but in the late 1940's, I did the above as a grade school project.
Does that count?
P.S.
I should get extra credt for remembering it.
BOb U
highflyer
> You have yet to offer a credible argument or citation in support of
> your position that, "the degaussers put out an AC magnetic
> field that will **NOT** stick to the frame." I suspect that this is
> because no such credible argument or citation exists.
Lots of AC electromagnets out there! :-)
The degaussing coil is indeed an AC electromagnet. The degausser works
by repeatedly MAGNETIZING the fuselage tubing in opposite directions.
When the coil is providing a strong field the magnetization is
relatively complete in each direction.
To "degauss" a ferrous object you place it in a strong AC magnetic
field. This flips the magnetic domains in the object back and forth at
sixty hertz in the US. Then you gradually weaken the field. As you
weaken the field you gradually reduce the effectiveness of the "domain
flipping" until the field finally disappears, leaving the magnetic
domains in the molecules of the object in a reasonably random state
where they no longer have any particular effect of the orientation of
nearby compass needles or create any noticeable unidirectional current
in moving conductors passed nearby.
The largest "degaussing coil" I have seen was one used during WWII to
"degauss" steel ships so they wouldn't set off "magnetic" mines! It
encircled the entire ship! :-)
You can weaken the magnetic field by either turning down the AC voltage
to the coil with a "Variac" or similiar adjustable transformer, or by
the simpler expedient used to "degauss" older color TV sets where you
merely move the coil away from the object until you are far enough away
to have negligable effect. Then you turn the coil at right angles to
the object and unplug it! :-)
--
Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Jim Weir
"highflyer" <high...@alt.net> wrote in message
news:3C863569...@alt.net...
> JStewart wrote:
>
> Lots of AC electromagnets out there! :-)
That's true, and to answer Mr. Stewart, his "electromagnet" that picks up
iron and steel only works because of the relatively poor b/h curve of an
iron bolt. Take that lousy core out of the coil and THEN try to pick up
bolts with the coil alone. Same for solenoids. Were it not for the fact
that the soft iron core has about a 45° tilt to the aforementioned curve, it
would just sit there and hummmmmm.
>
> The degaussing coil is indeed an AC electromagnet. The degausser works
> by repeatedly MAGNETIZING the fuselage tubing in opposite directions.
> When the coil is providing a strong field the magnetization is
> relatively complete in each direction.
PRECISELY true. And if the core material is a square curve (or nonexistent,
like air) then you get a true strong degaussing field.
>
> To "degauss" a ferrous object you place it in a strong AC magnetic
> field. This flips the magnetic domains in the object back and forth at
> sixty hertz in the US. Then you gradually weaken the field. As you
> weaken the field you gradually reduce the effectiveness of the "domain
> flipping" until the field finally disappears, leaving the magnetic
> domains in the molecules of the object in a reasonably random state
> where they no longer have any particular effect of the orientation of
> nearby compass needles or create any noticeable unidirectional current
> in moving conductors passed nearby.
That's so. The molecules at some point refuse to "flip". Where they are
during the AC cycle is where they remain. How they choose to refuse is
reasonably random. But the point is, you don't permanently MAGNETIZE them
and then slowly demagnetize them -- the idea is to get 100% of them flipping
back and forth and then slowly (relative to 60 times a second) weaken the
field while they individually settle down.
>
> The largest "degaussing coil" I have seen was one used during WWII to
> "degauss" steel ships so they wouldn't set off "magnetic" mines! It
> encircled the entire ship! :-)
Yes, but you used the magic word...COIL. No core. No
steel-sticking-to-the-hull stuff. And, you can still see remnants of that
coil on the bay side of San Diego harbor, just as you steam out by Point
Loma. BTW, there is still a degaussing station there using much the same
effect for submarines, but it is a bit harder to spot {;-)
>
> You can weaken the magnetic field by either turning down the AC voltage
> to the coil with a "Variac" or similiar adjustable transformer, or by
> the simpler expedient used to "degauss" older color TV sets where you
> merely move the coil away from the object until you are far enough away
> to have negligable effect. Then you turn the coil at right angles to
> the object and unplug it! :-)
That's also true, but again, this was a COIL, no core. The steel shadow
mask of the crt and/or the steel chassis parts were the "core", to which you
applied a steadily weakening magnetic field. As to Mr. Stewart's "coil with
a steel core" for demagnetizing a color crt, I don't think so. There is no
core in a true AC degaussing setup.
Back in high school (late '50s) when I was doing this stuff for a living,
I'd go out with a "master technician" and watch him "degauss" a color tv set
for purity...you know, turn the video and blue/green guns off and get a
perfectly red screen. Instead of doing the job right, degaussing the crt to
zero, and then using the purity rings to get the red screen, these bozos
would put the degaussing coil up by the impure color and repeatedly turn it
on and off with a toggle switch they had kludged into the line cord. When
the AC cycle was JUST RIGHT, the shadow mask would take on a slight
magnetization that just exactly offset the improper setting of the purity
rings. After all, to do the purity rings was a half-hour's job, and the
snap-snap technique was 5 minutes for the same money.
Which was the genesis of the entire discussion. The "degaussers" that I've
used on steel tube structures (and yes, SSR used to have a true coil-no-core
degausser) were little more than color TV degaussers on steroids. As a
matter of fact, the best degausser I ever had was a focus coil from a 1940's
era Crosley TV set that I ran from 110ac. The sucker could only run for
about 20 seconds before getting too hot to hold, but that was generally
enough to degauss the strongest steel tubes. And no, it didn't cling to the
tubes.
I've often wondered (and no, Mr. Stewart, I haven't done this experiment,
not that I'm too lazy, but too busy) that if I were to get one of those
honking toroids that were meant to work with a nice square b/h at 60 Hz.
whether I could cut a bandsaw gap in one location, fill the core with wire,
and get one hell of a good AC field in the vicinity of the gap. Someday
I'll try that...unless somebody has already given it a try. Anybody?
Jim
Jim
David CL Francis
writes
>The largest "degaussing coil" I have seen was one used during WWII to
>"degauss" steel ships so they wouldn't set off "magnetic" mines! It
>encircled the entire ship! :-)
Have you ever seen pictures of the British WW2 Wellington bombers fitted
with a huge circular magnetic ring that went right around the aircraft
from wing tip to wing tip?
The idea of those was to fly low over the sea to detonate magnetic
mines. I effective they were I don't know.
--
Francis E-Mail reply to <fli...@dclf.demon.co.uk>
BOb U
>"Jim Weir" <j...@rst-engr.com> wrote:
>
>>Just as I thought...use the SSR machine (yes, at $75 it is a bit pricey) and
>>**THEN** come back and tell us it didn't work. I have no idea how your
>>"friend" got one to look just like the SSR machine, as John Schwaner did the
>>design himself. I doubt sincerely he sold the design. That does not sound
>>like John.
>>
>>And I'm starting to smell troll. The degaussers put out an AC magnetic
>>field that will **NOT** stick to the frame. I'm suspecting something isn't
>>all on the up and up with this posting.
>>
>>Jim
>
>Yeah? Then how come all those millions of relays used for electric
>motor starters etc running on AC do attract and stick?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You're very late to this party, Charlie.
The reply was given some time ago.
You can find it in the archives.
cl...@snyder.on
Just whatever compass you use, don't get a Tates, because everyone
knows "he who has a tates is lost"
Aris
head. Then it took another bounce and smacked me in the face. ;-)
BOb U
"Aris" <mra...@attbi.com> wrote:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aris:
TIP OF THE DAY--
Do not attempt to fly anything that cruises over 25 MPH.
Barnyard BOb
Jim Weir
{;-)
Jim
George R. Patterson III
Jim Weir wrote:
>
> I see somebody ELSE was at my forum last year.
Jim, you may be old, but I don't think you originated that one.
George Patterson, N3162Q.