Military Toilets
Stephen
I'm an author in the UK who's been contracted to write a book on the
history of toilets.
I'm planning to including a chapter on 'military sanitation' and would
appreciate any information/reminiscences/stories you can give me on the
subject.
Aircrew - I'd also appreciate historical/current information regarding
military aircraft. I remember a story about RAF bomber crews in W.W.II who
used to throw out their chemical toilets during bombing runs over Berlin,
apparently this practice was stopped in case the Germans thought it was a
chemical warfare attack. Can anyone confirm this?
Infantry - I have a lot of information on traditional infantry latrines
(slit trenches etc.) but lack data about modern field sanitation. I have
found a few commercial websites advertising these sorts of facilities but
would appreciate any first-hand information/experiences.
Tank crew - I've been in contact with a serving member of the US Tank
Corp. who tells me that there is no in-built sanitation in modern US
armoured vehicles. Has this always been the case? Is this the situation in
other countries?
Navy - I have some information about the latrines in warships and
submarines (apparently Royal Navy surface craft use composting toilets),
but any historical/current information would be appreciated.
I'm posting this message to a number of military groups in the UK and USA
so I apologise if some of the information requested above falls outside
the scope of this News Group.
Many thanks for your help.
Best wishes
Stephen Arnott
schuurs
Much success
in your endevours.
Kevin
Yeff
schuurs<sch...@casema.net> wrote in
rec.aviation.military:
> Sorry Steve, I can't help, but your posting brought me to tears of laughter.
Me too. I thought about warning him that
there wasn't really any honey in the honey
pot! <g>
-Jeff B.
yeff at erols dot com
bigmalc
a few pints would lead to all sorts of information being forthcoming!
I have heard the story about the RAF and their "chemical" weapons as well,
can't vouch for its veracity.
You could also try the various "service" museums in the UK; RAF - Hendon,
Tank Museum - Bovington, regimental museums, etc. Also, if you talk to the
Navy, call the toilets "heads". otherwise you'll get politely corrected
(like I did!).
Best of luck.
Malc
--
big...@tinyworld.co.uk
"Stephen" <stea...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:stearn13-280...@modem-11.green-chromis.dialup.pol.co.uk...
Cub driver
At last, a subject worthy of discussion!
When I was in the U.S. Army, the favored field toilet was a 55-gallon
oil barrel cut off at knee height and fitted with a wooden cover with
the usual accessories. Barrel's contents were topped with a layer of
heavy oil (bunker oil?) on the ludicrous theory that this kept the
smell contained beneath the oil.
Also notable was the urinal on the B-36. This was a comparatively
early pressurized-cabin bomber, so the traditional relief tube wasn't
appropriate. (In fact, hardly bears thinking about.) I was touring the
36 at USAF Museum in Dayton and mightily impressed by its size; I
recall it as holding about two pints, but may have been smaller (see
below). It was located as I recall on the after bulkhead.
Some B-36 vets had spotted the ladder (the tour goes before the museum
opens, but I was thorough and they were early) and climbed up it. One
of them told me how an arrogant officer came sliding back through the
tube from the cockpit. He didn't ask for instructions on using the
urinal, so the crew didn't offer any. He was wearing what I think of
as mosquito boots--engineer boots, flying boots, whatever--no laces.
In any event, he filled the urinal but didn't know enough to use the
lever that vented it to the outside, so it overflowed and filled one
of his boots. Of course he knew that everyone had been waiting for
just that, so he zipped up, squished over to the slide, and scooted
back to the cockpit without a word.
all the best - Dan Ford (email: use...@danford.net)
Incident at Muc Wa (a novel of war in South Vietnam)
"Sad, bawdy, and compelling" -- Detroit Free Press
http://danford.net/mucwa.htm
George
it she describes the toilet facility on board the B52 bomber and the
implications of her using it, being a woman.
Pony
May have a pic somewhere.
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
"George" <scra...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A75A00B...@totalise.co.uk...
> I've just finished reading a book by Kelly Flinn ("Proud to be") and in
> it she describes the toilet facility on board the B52 bomber and the
> implications of her using it, being a woman.
Whatever happened to her after the scandal? Is she flying for an airline?
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
msch...@carolina.rr.com.nospam
George
internet search and saw some reference to her being employed on Air
Force One the thinking being that she'd suffer none of what she had done
before if se were working for the President.....but then again.......???
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>Of course he knew that everyone had been waiting for
>just that, so he zipped up, squished over to the slide, and scooted
>back to the cockpit without a word.
>
> all the best - Dan Ford (email: use...@danford.net)
>
Good one Dan!...the 'relief tube' as it's called in the RCAF was a black plastic
funnel shaped dingus attached to an electrically heated exit dingus on the
belly of the a/c by a soft rubber hose. This funnel is hung in a plastic holder
at the rear of the a/c on a C-119.
Used to be fun when we had a newbie onboard to break one of the hangup arms off
then just under the floor squeeze the hose with a pair of vicegrips. The newbie
picks up the funnel, fills it, then he's stuck, can't lay it down, can't hang it
up, hasn't finished yet. Now someone calls the cockpit and suggests that the
pilot check his rudder action, of course he knows whats going on so starts out
with gentle rudder applications increasing gradually...
Fun for all except the poor bugger holding a slopping funnel level full of piss
and desperately trying to attract attention from an (apparently) oblivious crew.
Cruel perhaps but we all gotta pay our dues sometime... :)
john fraser
>I'm an author in the UK who's been contracted to write a book on the
>history of toilets.
>By whom for Gawd's sake?
I flew in Shackletons for about 6 years in the 60s and for our relief
there was only the dreaded Elsan chemical toilet down aft. Generally
people tried to use in only to have a pee - but sometimes, in faraway
places with strange sounding names, after heavy nights in assorted
hostelries someone would get caught short. There was a sort of curtain
which you could pull around to preserve some modesty (and also to trap
the foul odours in one place) - but nonetheless they (the odours) tended
to seep around the a/c; and it was generally regarded as a tad
antisocial to crap. One captain I flew with was a bit of a sadist; our
elderly ( I suppose he was younger than I am now in truth) flight eng
suffered from the trots all the time and had to make frequent use of the
Elsan,
" 'scuse cap'n, Eng here I've got to go off I/c"
he'd then rush aft unzipping flying suit on the run - leaving his head-
set on his seat.
beam lookout/captain "let me know when he's installed"
" certainly skip"
capt/lookout "flying suit round ankles, sitting down, now,now,NOW"
capt " power on, 2600rpm 58ins boost - climbing"
as the mighty collection of rivets and duralimin lurched upwards from
our regular 1000' to 3000' fairly quickly a very cross red face would
appear round the curtain.
capt "3000' descending power back, push"
Down aft "engines" is now hanging on to the curtain, feet off the floor
Elsan fluid (and the contents of the bog) bathing his nether regions
even more red faced and even crosser.
capt " 1000' levelling out, sharpish"
eng crashes back onto Elsan seat; often trapping tender parts as he
did so.
And the eng almost never remembered to take his headset with him!
there is a sort of a sequel. A few years later the eng is now
an instructor at the Shack conversion unit. He's showing a couple of
fresh faced baby pilots the engineering aspects of a walkround. Now
Shacks leaked and dripped more than most a/c and the trick was to learn
what was significant and what wasn't.
"right then sirs what senses can we use to determine the nature of a
fluid "
" sight- colour" good
"smell" good
"feel - consistency" v good slippery for oil, "soapy" for hydraulics,
anything else?
"no eng can't think of anything else" what about taste?
Doubtful looks from the two young gentlemen
"f'rinstance look at this small bore pipe sticking out from the under
surface forward of the bomb bay doors, what do you think that's for?
Remember the tests?"
they each find a sample drip at the end of the pipe and smell, rub
between the fingers and finally - taste
"wosat then and where's it coming from?"
"Dunno eng"
"It's piss son and its coming from the pee tube you'll find in the nose
compartment in front of your feet when you're in the seat. And it's an
early lesson -- never fuck old flight engineers about"
I could go on but I fear it would lower the tone of this esteemed NG.
I'll get my coat - no need to see me out.
--
john fraser
Stephen
In article <3a755d40...@news.MA.ultranet.com>, lo...@my.sig.file (Cub
JohnF73157
airliner. When I was a crew chief a story went around about a C-141 that made a
refeuling stop at Taule(sp?) Greenland early one winter morning with a no
nonsence general on board. Take off time was being delayed because the pump out
truck had not arrived yet to service the latrine. When the truck finally
arrived, an airman basic set about hooking up the pipes and hoses. By now the
general is really pissed so he goes out to give the guy an asschewing about how
he is making him late and that he better hurry up if he knows whats good for
him, when the slick sleeve turns off the pump and says "General, I have no
stripes, this is Greenland in the middle of
February, and I'm sucking shit out of your airplane at 3 O'clock in the
morning. What more can you do to me?" The general just looked at him for a
second, and without saying another word, turns on his heel and goes back into
his plane and waits until the guy is finished.
John
Gord Beaman
>
--cut--
>"It's piss son and its coming from the pee tube you'll find in the nose
>compartment in front of your feet when you're in the seat. And it's an
>early lesson -- never fuck old flight engineers about"
> I could go on but I fear it would lower the tone of this esteemed NG.
>I'll get my coat - no need to see me out.
>--
>john fraser
Very good John, well told sir and I'm an expert in these matters,
being one of those of whom you write. There's many fresh faced young
hot-rocks Argus pilots who really are excellent pilots but much too
proud of themselves who've been mysteriously deflated by an old F/E's
judicious use of the cowl flaps on close final to turn a beautifully
finessed approach and flare into the escalating horror of a monsterous
float from hell that won't quit or a teeth jarring gut wrenching body
slam despite a desperate rotation to limits to prevent it.
This is only done when the sprog shows signs of becoming one of those
insufferable guys who are much too proud of their prowess behind the
stick, it merely gives them some respect for their older right seat
compatriots who merely grin slightly and say 'Oh, I guess the old girl
was just feeling cantankerous today'. His wink and grin later said
more than words could have.
--A crusty old F/E.
Shane Weier
Cub driver wrote in message <3a755d40...@news.MA.ultranet.com>...
>
>At last, a subject worthy of discussion!
>
>When I was in the U.S. Army, the favored field toilet was a 55-gallon
>oil barrel cut off at knee height and fitted with a wooden cover with
>the usual accessories. Barrel's contents were topped with a layer of
>heavy oil (bunker oil?) on the ludicrous theory that this kept the
>smell contained beneath the oil.
There's at least one confirmed case of the wrong jerry can being used to top
up the tank, and a rather senior NCO, lighting a cigarette whilst taking his
morning constitutional being (ahem) seriously singed.
In my (Australian Army) experience I suggest the "Funnel, Urinal", a
truncated galvanised iron cone like a large metal megaphone, planted point
down into a stone filled pit and used as a field urinal. Usual name -
Pissaphone
Shane
Hal Hanig
"JohnF73157" <johnf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010129204052...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> C-141's had lavatory with a toilet with a holding tank much like a modern
> airliner. When I was a crew chief a story went around about a C-141 that made
a
Great story. Just for the record, that'd be Thule.
Jim Herring
> Thanks for this. Very useful.
>
Many moons ago, when I was working on the hurricane data collection hardware
for the hurricane hunters at Kesseler at least one of their WC-130H's had a
porta john tied down inside. It was labeled something like "Head Hogg",
meaning base commander only. A lot better than what was in the tail end of the
plane for the common people (basically a small modesty barrier and a cold
seat over a can).
In either case I wouldn't want to be there when the plane went threw an eye
wall and the caca hit the fan. Or, one of their test flights chasing ballons,
when C-130 pilots became figher pilots, for awhile.
--
Jim
carry on
Kirk Stant
unfortunately. Older ones often did (as does the OV-10, by the way). On
longer flights we carried "piddle packs", basically extra strength plastic
bags with a compressed sponge inside and a funnel-shaped neck that could be
tied off. They worked pretty well - you just had to make sure you had
enough on hand during those long deployments! When full, they looked kind
of like a sandwich in a baggie. You rated deployments by how many piddle
packs you took with you.
As far as "number 2" was concerned, you just held it, and relied on the
"high protein/low residue" breakfast provided before the flight. If you
couldn't, then you made a mess of your flight suit (small aircrew have been
known to undress and use their helmet bags!).
Then again, if you were wearing an immersion suit (called a poopy suit for
obvious reasons) you were basically wearing a full body waterproof diaper!
The fun part was trying to use a piddle pack; you had to 1. unzip your
flight suit, 2. unzip the heavy rubber immersion suit fly zipper, 3. unzip
the fly on the thick suit liner, 4. reach in through 5 layers of flight
suit, poopy suit, suit liner, thermal underwear, and regular underwear, then
5. hope your plumbing was still long enough to make it out to the piddle
pack! But at least in the F-4 we didn't have to piss uphill like the Viper
drivers have to!
I'll leave it to a Viper guy to tell about what happens when you raise your
seat while trying to pee in that plane!
Incidentally, there was a hilarious thread a couple of years ago about the
problem of relieving oneself while flying gliders in rec.aviation.soaring.
Same problem as fighters, but even less room. Been there, done that - my
current glider has a relief tube, so no more filling Gatorade bottles or
ziplock baggies! Check it out - it's priceless.
Kirk Stant
Cub driver
>VA-25 dropped a "toilet bomb" from a Skyraider.
Was it a LABS delivery?
Cub driver
>refeuling stop at Taule(sp?) Greenland early one winter morning with a no
Thule, pronounced too-ley, now the brand name of a popular roof rack.
Dean
Kirk Stant <st...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:955qap$610$1...@nnrp1.phx.gblx.net...
<SNIP>
> The fun part was trying to use a piddle pack; you had to 1. unzip your
> flight suit, 2. unzip the heavy rubber immersion suit fly zipper, 3. unzip
> the fly on the thick suit liner, 4. reach in through 5 layers of flight
> suit, poopy suit, suit liner, thermal underwear, and regular underwear,
then
> 5. hope your plumbing was still long enough to make it out to the piddle
> pack! But at least in the F-4 we didn't have to piss uphill like the
Viper
> drivers have to!
> SNIP>
Well told Sir!
Had me laughing out loudly :-)
--
Dean Wingrin
Webmaster: The Unofficial SAAF Website
Visit my SAAF Website for access to my Aviation homepage with other aviation
articles I've written:
http://www.geocities.com/dwingrin/saaf.htm
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> problem of relieving oneself while flying gliders in rec.aviation.soaring.
> Same problem as fighters, but even less room. Been there, done that - my
> current glider has a relief tube, so no more filling Gatorade bottles or
> ziplock baggies! Check it out - it's priceless.
I have an old flying buddy who's a USAF navigator.... some years ago back before
he went into the service, he was flying alone over Gainesville, FL in a Cessna
172 when he had to pee. He looked around, and finally decided the plastic lined
barf bag was the perfect instrument. He managed to urinate in the bag while
hand-flying without getting it all over himself or the aircraft, but then the
question of what to do with the now full bag popped up.
My friend, genius that he was, decided to toss it out overboard. Unfortunately,
the bag wasn't quite as sturdy as he'd hoped when he hung it out in the 110 knot
slipstream. The bag exploded and my friend came out of his experience rather
poorly, in a soggy sort of way.
Now I rest easy knowing the skies of America are protected by my friend, who
shall remain nameless, as I don't want to be on the receiving end of an air
strike. :)
Ron
I believe she flies for ASA
Ron Chambless
Pilot PA-34 Seneca II
"Strange Situations, Wild Occupations. Living my life like a song"
George
Reg User
member on a B52, and got harrassed (one word...) somehow. Someone care
to inform of the details?
gracias,
Reg
George
on the same base. As a result she was investigated and the air force
went through with court martial proceedings although in the end she was
granted a discharge so she wouldn't go to prison. That's BASICALLY it.
Ron
Atlantic Southeast Airlines, based out of Atlanta. I think they are owned by
Delta.
The fly Emb-120s , ATRs, and some of the newer regional jets.
Ron
>member on a B52, and got harrassed (one word...) somehow. Someone care
>to inform of the details?
>
>gracias,
>Reg
>
Actually it was more like she had an affair with a enlisted married man, then
lied about it.
Then she proceeded to claim sexism, etc...And then whine about everybody else
doing it and getting away with it.
George
in the service himself.
Eugene Griessel
>>Ok I give - what WAS the scandal? I am guessing this is some girl crew
>>member on a B52, and got harrassed (one word...) somehow. Someone care
>>to inform of the details?
>>
>>gracias,
>>Reg
>>
>
>Actually it was more like she had an affair with a enlisted married man, then
>lied about it.
Wasn't it the husband of an enlisted married woman? Can't remember
exactly, but I seem to recall that it was a civilian she was having
the affair with.
Eugene L Griessel eug...@dynagen.co.za
Personal Page - www.dynagen.co.za/eugene
SAAF Crashboat Page - www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/eug3.htm
Celestial Navigation - www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/where
Snakes - www.web.netactive.co.za/~sean
Donnell Miller
I remember when we were stained in the UK in the '70s That many former
airfields still had Brick... er wash houses standing even though all other
traces of the airdrome were gone. These looked to be very substantial
edifices obviously built to some MOD standard.
Here in the US there is a slang expression that states about a good
looking women; "She's built like a brick shit house" not used much anymore, PC
and all that. I wonder if your research has or will turn up anything in this
vein.
Dandy Don
WGWSO/NAV
Stephen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm an author in the UK who's been contracted to write a book on the
> history of toilets.
>
George
applied to someone who is well built in terms of muscularity or
whatever. I've never heard of it being applied to attractive
women....doesn't sound like much of a compliment though.
:-)
bigmalc
crewman used the head and then worked the lever to flush it. However, his
backside made too good a seal and the resulting pressure drop prolapsed his
rectum. And that is why the bowls of the heads have holes near the top, to
prevent a good seal.
Anyone else heard that one before?
Malc
Eugene Griessel
Yea - plenty of times. Didn't something like this actually happen to
an airline passenger though? I child, IIRC.
One case I do know of - happened on my ship - was a malfuntioning one
way valve in the heads - the outlets were actually underwater (before
the days of environmental concerns) and water from the firemain was
used for flushing. This was usually at 3 atmospheres - 45 psi. The
laddie operated the handle while still seated, the valve failed to
open to the sea, and he got his back coated in the contents of the
pan. Needless to say he got not an iota of sympathy from any of the
crew who thought it the most hilarious thing to happen during the
cruise.
Peter Bjoern
rec.aviation.military:
>I'm an author in the UK who's been contracted to write a book on the
>history of toilets.
>
>I'm planning to including a chapter on 'military sanitation' and would
>appreciate any information/reminiscences/stories you can give me on the
>subject.
Apparently, mishaps in B-17s during the war seems not to have been uncommon.
John Comer (an 8th Air Force B-17 flight engineer) tells in his book
"Combat Crew" (ISBN 0-7515-0796-2) about an incident where the bombardier had a
case of diarrhoea and had to use an empty ammo box as toilet.
But before the contents has a chance to freeze, the navigator knocks it over
and gets completely soiled and complains loudly over the intercom.
Truman Smith (an 8th Air Force B-17 co-pilot) describes in his book
"The Wrong Stuff" (ISBN 0-941072-23-1) how the flight engineer with
diarrhoea has to use his flak helmet as toilet.
The contents freezes, but when they encounter flak, he decides to put
the helmet on his head and after a while the contents start to thaw, with
a predictable messy result !
Regards
Peter
Gord Beaman
>That phrase I (being of a younger generation) now understand to be often
>applied to someone who is well built in terms of muscularity or
>whatever. I've never heard of it being applied to attractive
>women....doesn't sound like much of a compliment though.
>
>:-)
>
Good god no!...if you value your life don't tell some quite mature
very muscular guy that he's built like a brick shithouse!...if he's
old enough to remember the proper recipient of this phrase he'll kill
you!...mind you, if he's just a kid he might not know the proper use
for it. :) (sorry - couldn't resist that little jab!)
Eugene Griessel
(from the ANC daily news briefings, 1997)
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa - South African Airways says it paid
for intestinal surgery for a 9-year-old girl who was injured when
she got stuck in an airplane toilet.
The girl, Nwabisa Lusu, was sucked into the toilet during a
flight and suffered internal injuries to her intestines, the South
African Press Association reported Tuesday.
SAA spokesman Mike Pheiffer said the airline paid the hospital
bill for the surgery and that the girl was fine.
Lusu was injured during a flight from Johannesburg to Cape Town
on Jan. 7 after being sucked into a toilet. She was released only
after the aircraft descended to a lower altitude, according to the
SAPA report.
The unaccompanied child pushed a call button in the lavatory to
alert the cabin crew to her predicament.
SAA media spokesman Leon Els said a technical team was
investigating the accident, which he called the first of its kind
in the airline's history.
Hal Hanig
"Eugene Griessel" <eug...@dynagen.co.za> wrote in message
news:3a771db0...@news.iafrica.com...
>
> Wasn't it the husband of an enlisted married woman? Can't remember
> exactly, but I seem to recall that it was a civilian she was having
> the affair with.
>
> Eugene L Griessel eug...@dynagen.co.za
I think you've got that part of it right, except that I think the NCO was in her
outfit but not under her direct supervision. The courts-martial was dropped
after her attorney made it known that they were prepared to submit evidence of
similar activities involving male officers who were not subjected to
courts-martial. I don't remember if she got an honorable or a general, but it
certainly is nice that our tax money that went into training her to be a B-52
pilot was not completely wasted, and somebody found a way to put it to good use.
George
Afterall I am a polite chap :-)
George
her chain of command I understand.
Dwayne Allen Day
: Actually it was more like she had an affair with a enlisted married man, then
: lied about it.
: Then she proceeded to claim sexism, etc...And then whine about everybody else
: doing it and getting away with it.
You can probably find her book (I think it's called "Free to
Be") remaindered at a number of places. Try www.hamiltonbooks.com.
The amazing thing about her book is that she does not make herself out to
be all that sympathetic. She thinks she does, but she comes across as
horny and stupid.
D
George
Dwayne Allen Day
: It's "proud to be"
That's it.
I just found it at www.hamiltonbook.com:
Proud to Be
By Kelly Flynn, Published at $23, Our Price $4.95
The subtitle should be "Stupid and Horny."
D
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
"George" <scra...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3A772764...@totalise.co.uk...
> That phrase I (being of a younger generation) now understand to be often
> applied to someone who is well built in terms of muscularity or
> whatever. I've never heard of it being applied to attractive
> women....doesn't sound like much of a compliment though.
Ah, but it is. A brick shit house is an extremely well built one indeed.
JohnF73157
>> exactly, but I seem to recall that it was a civilian she was having
>> the affair with.
>>
I seem to remember one of the charges was failure to obey a direct order from a
superior officer when her squadron CO ordered her to break off the affair and
she didn't.
John
John Williams
Surely such an order is unlawful? If the guy she is having an affair
with was a civilian, then it's none of the AF's business who she sleeps
with. Another officer, perhaps. Yet another reason not to be in the
military...
> John
another John
Dwayne Allen Day
:> I seem to remember one of the charges was failure to obey a direct order
:> superior officer when her squadron CO ordered her to break off the affair
:> and she didn't.
: Surely such an order is unlawful? If the guy she is having an affair
: with was a civilian, then it's none of the AF's business who she sleeps
: with. Another officer, perhaps. Yet another reason not to be in the
: military...
Actually, I don't think that was the case. She really got in trouble for
denying the affair when asked about it in an official proceeding.
But the problem here was that her personal activities were affecting unit
morale. That's what fraternization was all about. Further, adultery is
officially against the UCMJ (military rules)--the Air Force, in other
words, dictates that you cannot sleep with certain people.
D
Ron
>be all that sympathetic. She thinks she does, but she comes across as
>horny and stupid.
Hey...that describes my dream girl!!! hahaha
John R Nickolls
couple of Herc toilet stories.
First one was in the Persian Gulf, where a number of Trucial Scouts were
being flown down country one night by an RAF Herc. The Nav and the
Co-Pilot has been having each other on for much of the trip, and when
the Co-Pilot went aft to use the toilet, the Nav was in his element.
Everyone in the back was asleep, some curled up on top of a pair of Land
Rovers, and the Co didn't bother installing the curtain round the 'bog',
but perched there with flying suit around ankles in the gloom. After a
suitable interval, the Nav hooked in to the PA system and (ringing
alarm bell first) made an announcement along the lines of "Gentlemen, if
you look aft, the Co-Pilot is now demonstrating the proper use of the
toilet", leaving the Co at the mercy of a number of very amused Arabs.
Second story concerned a WRAF (female) officer, who went up for an air
experience flight with a crew doing circuits. We generally didn't carry
females - due to the sanitary arrangements - except on short training
flights. Unfortunately this lady suddenly REALLY had to go, so she was
given general directions as to the location of the toilet, and then the
crew quarantined themselves on the flight deck. After a while they
became concerned, as she hadn't come back yet, so someone (probably the
Loadmaster) was 'volunteered' to take a look round the corner. He came
back laughing his head off. Being a short flight, no-one had unstowed
the bog, and it was still stuck halfway up the fuselage wall, with the
WRAF clambering about like a monkey, trying to perform without falling
off.
That's how I heard them - they may not be true, but they should be.
Stephen wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm an author in the UK who's been contracted to write a book on the
> history of toilets.
>
> I'm planning to including a chapter on 'military sanitation' and would
> appreciate any information/reminiscences/stories you can give me on the
> subject.
<snip>
--
John R Nickolls/Paratechnics
PO Box 931, Manurewa, Auckland, New Zealand,
Tel: +64-9-268 1743 Fax: +64-9-268 2376
http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~nickolls
http://www.GeoCities.com/john_r_nickolls
Dweezil Dwarftosser
John Williams wrote:
>
> JohnF73157 wrote:
> >
> > > Wasn't it the husband of an enlisted married woman? Can't remember
> > >> exactly, but I seem to recall that it was a civilian she was having
> > >> the affair with.
> > >>
> >
> > I seem to remember one of the charges was failure to obey a direct order from a
> > superior officer when her squadron CO ordered her to break off the affair and
> > she didn't.
>
> Surely such an order is unlawful?
Certainly not. Adultery is a crime under US military law. (UCMJ)
> If the guy she is having an affair
> with was a civilian, then it's none of the AF's business who she sleeps
> with.
Fornication is also forbidden. (Technically, anyway. Realistically,
the only
time any of the above actions are prosecuted is when the act reflects
badly
on the service. Folks who f*ck, but keep it to themselves rarely get
bitten
for it.)
- yet a third John...
John Keeney
John Williams <j2.wi...@qut.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3A7779...@qut.edu.au...
She was a B-52 pilot, nuclear mission and all. The man was the husband
of an enlisted woman in the same unit who was not directly under her
command. This guy was also not a natural citizen and may well have been
a foreign national, I was never sure on that point but suspect it.
After being less formally told to "quit it" and failing to comply, she was
directly ordered to do so by her CO. A lawful order beyond doult as
adultry is an unlawful act. Poaching the spouses of the lower ranks
definitly qualifies as injuries to good order and disciplen.
At this point she lied to her CO about having broken off the affair and
continued it.
She was spared court martial due to the "new girls club" where no
woman may fell the others.
> > John
>
> another John
John Keeney
> applied to someone who is well built in terms of muscularity or
> whatever. I've never heard of it being applied to attractive
> women....doesn't sound like much of a compliment though.
Well, not so much "good looking" as properly and generously
proportioned. "A well made structure of uncompromising
quality"
Drewe Manton
wrote on 31/1/01 7:10 am:
> Well, not so much "good looking" as properly and generously
> proportioned. "A well made structure of uncompromising
> quality"
I had a girlfriend with a chest like that once upon a time <sigh>
--
Regards
Drewe
"Politicians and nappies should both be changed at regular intervals, and
for exactly the same reason"
George
had immediate effect. Problem for her was that he'd just moved into her
house and the air force knew he had because they had her under
surveillance and they knew she couldn't comply.
George
a married couple......??
George
did you get a slap? I assure you that if you use that "compliment" on a
British woman today, 99% of the time you'd get a slap and deserve it.
:-)
Jeff Heidman
The only leg she had to stand on was the assertion that other men had
done the same thing and not been prosecuted.
It was a pretty weak leg, since neither her or her lawyer were ever
actually able to come up with any names.
The Air Force gave her a general (is that not "less than honorable?)
discharge because the hassle was not worth the trouble.
She didn't much sound like she was cut out to be an officer to begin
with.
Jeff Heidman
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Gord Beaman
While this following story is certainly less awful than those above I
saw it happen and therefore it holds it's place in my mind's eye quite
well.
We were conducting paradrops of 'panniers' and Army Paratroopers in
winter in Ontario from C-119 Boxcars. Panniers are metal toboggans and
arctic kits hung from a 'monorail' down the center of the aircraft and
are electrically ejected after the paratroopers have jumped. Now this
was a very bumpy day and these poor buggers (about 40 of them) were
jammed into the row seats down each side of the fuselage and hemmed in
by the swaying panniers down the middle.
One of these unfortunates gave up the struggle to control his heaving
stomach and half filled his helmet. As the time came to 'Stand up,
Hook up' he upturned the helmet over his head, staggered drippingly
back to the door and with an uncaring (and soggy) expression on his
pale (and lumpy) face, fell out.
Poor devil, I'll bet he really didn't give a shit whether his chute
opened or not.
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>WRAF clambering about like a monkey, trying to perform without falling
>off.
>
>That's how I heard them - they may not be true, but they should be.
>
>Stephen wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm an author in the UK who's been contracted to write a book on the
>> history of toilets.
>>
>> I'm planning to including a chapter on 'military sanitation' and would
>> appreciate any information/reminiscences/stories you can give me on the
>> subject.
>
><snip>
>
Good ones...here's something in roughly the same category...I used to
fly Convair 580 passenger a/c as a Flight Engineer for the RCAF, both
pilots intercom systems has a microphone rotary switch to select
various services, one of which is PA to b'cast to passengers. Used to
be fun (the first time anyway) to, right after one of the pilots had
finished a particularly raunchy joke, quickly flip his mic switch to
PA then jab his arm and look and point (with a horrified expression)
at the offending switch. Especially effective with a VIP and his
predominately female entourage aboard.
Dwayne Allen Day
: They gave an order saying she couldn't even talk to him and that order
: had immediate effect. Problem for her was that he'd just moved into her
: house and the air force knew he had because they had her under
: surveillance and they knew she couldn't comply.
This is just bogus. She tried to claim that she had been ordered not to
talk to him but he had just moved into her house, so that she ccould not
even tell him to move out without breaking the order. So, since the order
was obviously impossible to follow, she chose not to follow it at all.
Now that's the kind of argument that a nine-year-old makes, not a B-52
pilot. She was just plain stupid and they should have kicked her out for
that.
D
George
real. Whatever, yes she was stupid.
Gord Beaman
>Are you married and if so did you use that compliment on her and if so
>did you get a slap? I assure you that if you use that "compliment" on a
>British woman today, 99% of the time you'd get a slap and deserve it.
>
>:-)
>
>"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:
Just the different ways we use our respective languages I
guess...f'instance, don't ask a Brit lady what sports team she roots
for, you're liable to collect a black eye for your trouble, while
that's quite acceptable in North America the word 'root' has a quite
different connotation over there. :)
Eugene Griessel
>Just the different ways we use our respective languages I
>guess...f'instance, don't ask a Brit lady what sports team she roots
>for, you're liable to collect a black eye for your trouble, while
>that's quite acceptable in North America the word 'root' has a quite
>different connotation over there. :)
Depends on which sport the lady practices. I knew some lady darts
players in Southampton who certainly rooted for their team. And
rooted as a team too. Best weekend the crew had had in a monkey's
age.
Eugene L Griessel eug...@dynagen.co.za
Personal Page - www.dynagen.co.za/eugene
SAAF Crashboat Page - www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/eug3.htm
Celestial Navigation - www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/where
Snakes - www.web.netactive.co.za/~sean
Digby
Digby
Dwayne Allen Day
: Well I've only read her version of it so I don't know what happened for
: real. Whatever, yes she was stupid.
All you have to do is apply a little common sense to her own
arguments. In this case, could she really believe that she would have
been court-martialed (for violating the order not to talk to her
boyfriend) if she immediately went home and said "You have to move out of
here right now!"? No. And there were indeed ways for her to follow the
order in question--all she had to do was to tell someone else to tell her
boyfriend to move out (and thereby not violate the order not to talk to
him). So her own excuses just looked bad.
As I posted before, her book should have put her in a more sympathetic
light, but in reality, it just made her look stupid and horny. (My
favorite part was when her landlord said that he had 40 cases of wine that
he didn't want and she could have it. She decided to throw a "wine
tasting party" that essentially involved people passing out blotto all
over her house. Yeah, that's what we all think of when we read the words
"wine tasting party"--drunken airmen all over the place.
D
George
a wine party in my own house. I'd either tell a friend that they're
welcome to use the wine for a lparty in their house, rent a place for it
or, most likely, just keep the wine and consume it slowly myself.
Dave Kearton
"Drewe Manton" <dr...@manton300.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:B69DD001.10B77%dr...@manton300.freeserve.co.uk...
> in article 3a77b...@news.iglou.com, John Keeney at jdke...@iglou.com
> wrote on 31/1/01 7:10 am:
>
>
> > Well, not so much "good looking" as properly and generously
> > proportioned. "A well made structure of uncompromising
> > quality"
>
> I had a girlfriend with a chest like that once upon a time <sigh>
> --
Do you mean that she doesn't - now ????
Cheers
--
Dave Kearton
Surveillance Sales Manager
Practel Holdings Ltd
Ph: +61 8 8351 2777
Fax: +61 8 8351 1766
Dwayne Allen Day
: Yeah, that wine party bit struck me as a bit much. Even I wouldn't have
The part that got me was describing 40 cases (not bottles--CASES) as a
"wine tasting party." I've never been to a wine tasting party where
people are chugging the stuff. She never mentioned if anybody had even
brought cheese...
Seriously, if you're looking for a good book to get your bile up, Proud to
Be works fine. She tries so hard to explain why she became such a
pathetic sop (seriously--a person trained to drop nuclear bombs who
constantly falls for lying losing men?). But she fails miserably and just
comes across as stupid.
D
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> Are you married and if so did you use that compliment on her and if so
> did you get a slap? I assure you that if you use that "compliment" on a
> British woman today, 99% of the time you'd get a slap and deserve it.
Never let it be said that I lack sensitivity and sophistication. The
"compliment" is to be shared with your male friends. Women lack the necessary
sense of humor to appreciate the mental image, and I can pretty much guarantee
American women will react the same as yours.
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
"Jeff Heidman" <jhei...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:95980k$bsb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> The Air Force gave her a general (is that not "less than honorable?)
> discharge because the hassle was not worth the trouble.
>
> She didn't much sound like she was cut out to be an officer to begin
> with.
My understanding was that she was a gifted pilot though....
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>
>Never let it be said that I lack sensitivity and sophistication. The
>"compliment" is to be shared with your male friends. Women lack the necessary
>sense of humor to appreciate the mental image, and I can pretty much guarantee
>American women will react the same as yours.
>
>--
>Mortimer Schnerd, RN
Dunno about that Mortimer old trout...I asked my wife what she'd say
if Mel Gibson told her that she was 'built like a brick shithouse' and
she said 'woohoo' but wouldn't elaborate...then I asked her the same
question except it was Archie Bunker, her eyes flashed and her fists
knotted up. I have no idea why...who can figure women out anyway?
:)
Gord Beaman
--cut--
> Women lack the necessary
>sense of humor to appreciate the mental image, and I can pretty much guarantee
>American women will react the same as yours.
>
>
>
Yes, strange about that isn't it?, when a man hears that phrase he
smiles because a brick shithouse gives the image of something
admirable that's usually ramshackle, untidy and impermanent although
quite necessary while women seem to get bad vibes just because it's a
shithouse and the fact that it's beautifully and uncommonly well built
doesn't seem to impress them like it does men...odd eh?...vive la
difference I guess.
Gord Beaman
--cut--
> But she fails miserably and just
>comes across as stupid.
>
>D
But with the saving grace of being horny, right?... :)
Richard Royal
"Gord Beaman" <gbe...@pei.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3a7843ba...@news1.pei.sympatico.ca...
Quite off topic of course but IIRC the word "root" as implied above is more
commonly used here in Oz than in the UK . During the 3 years I lived in
London I can't say I ever heard it used by the Brits. Plenty of "bonking"
though.
My friends & I have a good chuckle whenever we see a ' Made in the US' movie
where the football cheer leader states she is "rooting for the team" & she
looks too dammed sweet & innocent to be gang banging.
RR.
George
George
to contemplate such a compliment! :-)
George
:-)
Hal Hanig
"Richard Royal" <rro...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:Fm6e6.97743$xW4.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
And while it might be perfectly OK for a sweet young Ozz or Brit to say "knock
me up at eight at the pub", keep in mind that in Ameri-speak, that would
translate into "make me pregnant at eight at the pub". I don't suppose it would
upset anyone if we got a pretty good chuckle out of that one on this side of the
pond. (^_^)
Geoff May
:
: And while it might be perfectly OK for a sweet young Ozz or Brit to say
"knock
: me up at eight at the pub", keep in mind that in Ameri-speak, that would
: translate into "make me pregnant at eight at the pub". I don't suppose it
would
: upset anyone if we got a pretty good chuckle out of that one on this side
of the
: pond. (^_^)
Hows'about the difference between 'having a fag' in England and in the US?
MfG
Geoff.
George
Hal Hanig
"Geoff May" <Geof...@doka.de> wrote in message
news:3a79869c$0$24057$4dbe...@businessnews.de.uu.net...
More years ago than I care to admit to, a "fag" in the States was a cigarette,
as it apparently still is in England. Over here, it has evolved into a
contraction for "faggot" since those days.
>
> MfG
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
>
George
still primarily be a kind of meatball in the UK
John Williams
Y'know, I've been reading this (now OT) thread for a few days, and I've
been stunned by some apparent double standards emerging in posters'
attitudes. I mean, you're all giving this woman shit because she's
horny, because she had a party, because she had an affair, or
whatever... I mean for God's sake, these are totally common things in
society, yet because it's associated with a female pilot in your
hallowed Air Force, all of a sudden she's the wicked witch of the
west...
And as for the comment "seriously--a person trained to drop nuclear
bombs who constantly falls for lying losing men?" - do you really think
that all male fighter pilots are Einsteins when it comes to
relationships with women? I don't think so.
Just a reality check...
John
Dwayne Allen Day
: Y'know, I've been reading this (now OT) thread for a few days, and I've
: been stunned by some apparent double standards emerging in posters'
: attitudes. I mean, you're all giving this woman shit because she's
Prove the double standard. Where did anybody here praise adulterous
males?
D
Vee-One
Eugene Griessel <eug...@dynagen.co.za> wrote in message
news:3a7735f8...@news.iafrica.com...
> "bigmalc" <big...@tinyworld.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Just recalled another apocryphal toilet story; how on a ship or sub, a
> >crewman used the head and then worked the lever to flush it. However,
his
> >backside made too good a seal and the resulting pressure drop prolapsed
his
> >rectum. And that is why the bowls of the heads have holes near the top,
to
> >prevent a good seal.
> >
> >Anyone else heard that one before?
>
> Yea - plenty of times. Didn't something like this actually happen to
> an airline passenger though? I child, IIRC.
>
Not sure, but I do know that a child was hurt in a similar manner by sitting
on the filter system intake of a swimming pool..........
John Williams
Well Dwayne, perhaps double standard was not the best expression for me
to use.
However don't you think it's a little odd that this woman's (apparent)
skill as a pilot was very low on the list of things discussed, instead
it was all this personal stuff, with an "Oh by the way, wasn't she an
exceptional pilot?" or something to that effect.
In this NG we constantly read stories about so and so pilot who was a
larrikin, failed to follow order sometimes,or whatever, but because he
was a shit hot pilot all is forgiven? I see nothing like that
"leniency" being applied here.
I have no personal interest in this matter, and the woman probably was a
bit of a flake, but I find it my duty to point out hypocrisy where I see
it.
Regards,
JW
Gregory L. Hansen
A faggot is a bundle of sticks tied together, and that's probably where
the term "fag" for cigarette came from. But I don't know when or why it
got its other meaning in the States.
--
"'No user-serviceable parts inside.' I'll be the judge of that!"
Dwayne Allen Day
: However don't you think it's a little odd that this woman's (apparent)
: skill as a pilot was very low on the list of things discussed, instead
: it was all this personal stuff, with an "Oh by the way, wasn't she an
: exceptional pilot?" or something to that effect.
So what? She was never known as an "exceptional pilot." She was notable
only for being a flake. And as I pointed out, if you read her book (have
you?), then she confirms her flakiness.
It's worth noting that male pilots have gotten themselves nailed for
similar things. They just haven't gone on television to cry about it.
: bit of a flake, but I find it my duty to point out hypocrisy where I see
: it.
Well it's good that you've taken on this burden for the rest of us. We
all appreciate it. We do. Really we do.
D
John Williams
> : bit of a flake, but I find it my duty to point out hypocrisy where I see
> : it.
>
> Well it's good that you've taken on this burden for the rest of us. We
> all appreciate it. We do. Really we do.
Thanks Dwaynie-poo for that validation. It means a lot to me.
JW
Gord Beaman
--cut--
>
>
>Quite off topic of course but IIRC the word "root" as implied above is more
>commonly used here in Oz than in the UK . During the 3 years I lived in
>London I can't say I ever heard it used by the Brits. Plenty of "bonking"
>though.
>
>My friends & I have a good chuckle whenever we see a ' Made in the US' movie
>where the football cheer leader states she is "rooting for the team" & she
>looks too dammed sweet & innocent to be gang banging.
>
>RR.
>
>
meaning for 'gang banging' (here) other that what it brings to my mind
(being an old fart) but I don't know what it is...you hear mention of
it often but it can't mean mass rape which it indicates to
me...dunno... perhaps these modern gangs go out at night and pound the
piss outta garbage cans?...sounds like fun to me...yeah...
Richard Royal
GB
I think their idea of gang banging is when they go to a rock concert & bang
their heads together in time with the music :)
I shouldn't be joking because I am sure I have seen them doing just that in
the "mosh" pit (is that what it's called?)
Richard (Just another old fart)
Hal Hanig
"Gregory L. Hansen" <glha...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:95d3a0$2tk$4...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...
You are right, of course. I got to thinking about an old song called, IIRC,
"Smile" or maybe "Pack up your Troubles in Your Old Kit Bag", in which there's a
line that goes
".....while you've a lucifer to light your fag
everything's worthwhile"
I always thought that the "fag" in that context meant cigarette, but it could
also have referred to a bundle of sticks, which got me into my dictionary to
look up fag and faggot. I learned that the term "fag" was also used in England
to refer to a boy in a public school (which is the equivalent of our private
schools) who acts as a servant for another boy in a higher class or form. As a
verb, it is also used to denote working hard and becoming very tired, as well as
drudgery.
The point of all this is that, no matter how old an old fart any of us may be,
it is never too late to learn something new about something old. (^_^)
Stephen
on the subject... In 18th-century England army regiments were often under
strength but this didn't stop corrupt officers from claiming the pay due
to privates who didn't really exists. Occasionaly audits were held and
someone from London would ride out and count the troops. This mean that an
under-strength regiment had to find stand-ins in a hurry. Apparently there
were groups of men with uniforms who'd hire themselves out to regiments
when there was going to be a head-count. These men were known as 'faggots'
as they just stood like bundles of sticks ie they were not real soldiers.
It's been suggested that this is where the homesexual connection came
about ie the faggots were 'false men/soldiers'.
I read it somewhere.
Stephen
In article <OcBe6.1153$0E.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Hal
George
there's something about it in a biography of William Cobbett as he had a
big hand in trying to bring to light such corruption in the army at the
time. He'd seen it first hand because he served in the army in Nova Scotia.
Jeff Heidman
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <MSch...@carolina.rr.com.nospam> wrote:
>
> news:95980k$bsb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > The Air Force gave her a general (is that not "less than honorable?)
> > discharge because the hassle was not worth the trouble.
> >
> > She didn't much sound like she was cut out to be an officer to begin
> > with.
>
> My understanding was that she was a gifted pilot though....
Could be true. However, gifted pilot != good soldier
Jeff Heidman
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Glenn Dowdy
John Williams wrote in message <3A79EA...@qut.edu.au>...
>Y'know, I've been reading this (now OT) thread for a few days, and I've
>been stunned by some apparent double standards emerging in posters'
>attitudes. I mean, you're all giving this woman shit because she's
>horny, because she had a party, because she had an affair, or
>whatever... I mean for God's sake, these are totally common things in
>society, yet because it's associated with a female pilot in your
>hallowed Air Force, all of a sudden she's the wicked witch of the
>west...
>
having an affair with the husband of an enlisted person in her unit; and
two, having been given a lawful order, she disobeyed it.
Glenn D.
Susan & Bill Maddux
At Fairchild in the late '80s a coworker of might was catching his plane in
front of my stub, after the crew shut down 4 and 5 engines he opened the
hatch and solid waste dropped down on him. He was pissed. one of the NAVs
couldn't wait till after they touch down, and did not want to go up stairs
to do his thing. The DO had that crewman come back out to the aircraft with
a bucket, and clean his stuff off of the hatch. Oh and apologize to the crew
chief. man what a story.news:ozse6.669$l01....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Dave Kearton
uppose it
> would
> : upset anyone if we got a pretty good chuckle out of that one on this
side
> of the
> : pond. (^_^)
> :
>
> Hows'about the difference between 'having a fag' in England and in the US?
>
> MfG
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
... and the best way to give up the fags ?
suck on a lifesaver !
(well - everybody else was doing it !!!)