F-15E Over-G
Steve Davies
loads of questions!!
What are the practical restrictions on the F-15E as far as G-loading goes. I
know that certain stores configurations prohibit differing levels of G's
being pulled. However, the book I'm reading which talks about Eagle drivers
in DS is always quoting these guys as over -G'ing the jet when the pull out
of bomb runs and to avoid AAA and the ground! Why not just put a limiter on
the jet like in the F-16 instead of having 'bitchin betty' in the cockpit?
--
Steve Davies
England
Thomas M. Lockard
F-16. Because the F-15 is still a manual hydraulic assisted cable and
torque tube system it would be difficult to develop and install a useable
flight control 'G' limiting device whereas in the F-16's electronic fly by
wire system the limitation is set in the FLCS (flight control system
computer). Also, on the F-16 you can cheat the system momentarilly to
produce a temporary increase of 'G', and because of external loadouts this
may cause an over-g of the external stores and pylons up to and including
the airframe.
myrle
Steve Davies <steve_...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article
<7l8esu$l25$3...@lure.pipex.net>...
Dweezil Dwarftosser
<steve_...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>Sorry to blam this NG with F-15E stuff but I'm reading a book on it and have
>loads of questions!!
>
>What are the practical restrictions on the F-15E as far as G-loading goes. I
>know that certain stores configurations prohibit differing levels of G's
>being pulled. However, the book I'm reading which talks about Eagle drivers
>in DS is always quoting these guys as over -G'ing the jet when the pull out
>of bomb runs and to avoid AAA and the ground! Why not just put a limiter on
>the jet like in the F-16 instead of having 'bitchin betty' in the cockpit?
It applies across the board, not just to F-15s: the crew has to be
able to do whatever is necessary to save his own ass. If he tears off
the stabs pulling away from AAA - but makes it home, or even merely
out of the enemy-controlled area - it is worth it.
The entire idea of combat aircrews making "suggestions" to a
flight-control computer is supremely bogus. It is one of the things
that destine the little electric jets to a relatively short and un-
distinguished career.
It's one thing to have a computer limit excursions - as long as
there's a paddle switch on the stick to override the thing.
Just MHO, of course.
- John T.
R & A
The most "g's" I ever saw an F-16 "pull" was a block 50, last year at Shaw,
pulled 10.1. When we counted the frames that it was held for, it was only a
minimal inspection checking Cap-9's and leading edge flaps, plus a few other
small portions. On usual loads that we flew with (AGM-88), we had limits of
around 5.5. I have to say, in my 6 years on Vipers, I never heard of an
F-16 not pulling as many G's as the pilot wanted to.
Rick
> You're not talking about the F-16, surely? A "short and
>undistinguished career"? Isn't it a bit late for that?
>
>Grantland
Paul J. Adam
Dwarftosser <wc...@usa.net> writes
>It's one thing to have a computer limit excursions - as long as
>there's a paddle switch on the stick to override the thing.
One _fascinating_ (to me, anyway) comparison was buying the MiG-29
add-on pack for Falcon 3.0 . Both were just games (giving a nod to
reality, but still games) but the difference between the Falcon and
the Fulcrum was incredibly marked - in the F-16 you could honk the
stick around all you liked with no danger of overG and at risk of
nothing worse than bleeding energy stupidly fast.
In the Microprose imitation of the MiG-29, that manoeuvre could
easily generate 15G manoeuvres that caused your simulated aircraft to
break up in midair and you to die a simulated fiery agonised death.
I'd have liked that feature - a limit to let me throw the aircraft
around as hard as was "safe", with an override to let me tell the FCS I
knew better than it did...
It also did a passable job of modelling the AA-11 and its HMS, and got
what felt like the right 'feel' for fighting Western aircraft - they were
superior in the BVR shootout, and it was an achievement to _get_ into
IR missile range where the Fulcrum finally felt as if it had an
advantage.
Just games, but apparently fairly well-researched and interesting to
own and play.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk
Grantland
>The entire idea of combat aircrews making "suggestions" to a
>flight-control computer is supremely bogus. It is one of the things
>that destine the little electric jets to a relatively short and un-
>distinguished career.
>
>- John T.
Grantland
>Don't even waste your breath on that argument with him.
>
>Rick
>
Eh? What's wrong with the F-16? 'Nifty little jet. Cheap,
manoeverable, useful stores carriage. Great looks!
Grantland
Dweezil Dwarftosser
wrote:
It seems nothing can overcome the political considerations that keep
cranking them out - but except for the RF role, they have run out of
possible missions for it... trying to find something at which it can
succeed.
- John T.
wal...@oneimage.com
>Sorry to blam this NG with F-15E stuff but I'm reading a book on it and have>loads of questions!!
>
>What are the practical restrictions on the F-15E as far as G-loading goes. I
>know that certain stores configurations prohibit differing levels of G's
>being pulled. However, the book I'm reading which talks about Eagle drivers
>in DS is always quoting these guys as over -G'ing the jet when the pull out
>of bomb runs and to avoid AAA and the ground! Why not just put a limiter on
>the jet like in the F-16 instead of having 'bitchin betty' in the cockpit?
>
Comment: Because if you happen to go too deep in teh dive the G-limiter will
prevent you from getting out of the dive safely although in so soind you've
over-G'd the bird - and pile into the ground having safely not over-G'd -
you get the idea!
besides, there are many many G limits depending on what's hanging on the
airplane, how much it weighs, etc, etc. In a real hot situation over-Ging
the bird was not one of my major worries (troops in contact, etc)
> Walt BJ ftr plt ret
MegaShaft_2000
something? I can understand someone not liking a particular plane, but you
are sure to throw in a negative comment as soon as the F-16 is mentioned.
Dweezil Dwarftosser <wc...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:37788d97...@news.rdu.bellsouth.net...
Grantland
>On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:36:41 GMT, mit...@iafrica.com (Grantland)
>wrote:
>
>>wc...@usa.net (Dweezil Dwarftosser) wrote:
>>
>>>The entire idea of combat aircrews making "suggestions" to a
>>>flight-control computer is supremely bogus. It is one of the things
>>>that destine the little electric jets to a relatively short and un-
>>>distinguished career.
>>>
>>>- John T.
>>
>> You're not talking about the F-16, surely? A "short and
>>undistinguished career"? Isn't it a bit late for that?
>
>It seems nothing can overcome the political considerations that keep
>cranking them out - but except for the RF role, they have run out of
>possible missions for it... trying to find something at which it can
>succeed.
>
>- John T.
Well I've noticed a recent rise in the ridiculousness but this seems
to be a more chronic, longer-lasting case. I can only assume that you
are, indeed, an ardent fan of the F-16, possibly a flier or
co-creator... who loves nothing better than to extract passionate
praise from his outraged opponents.
Grantland
(It lacks stealth)
Raptor05
The F-15E is easy to over-g, while rolling and pulling (asymmetric g). It
is common when pulling out of a dive bomb pass, once the nose is at or above
the horizon, to roll either as part of a jink (less predictable flight
path), or so you can look back and see where your bomb(s) hit. During this
rolling-pull it is easy to over-g the wing stations on the F-15E. Usually
only requires a visual inspection by maintenance to clear the jet. This may
have been one of the causes, though certainly not the only one.
g_al...@hotmail.com
"Raptor05" <rapt...@gte.net> wrote:
> The F-15E is easy to over-g, while rolling and pulling (asymmetric g).
It
> is common when pulling out of a dive bomb pass, once the nose is at or
above
> the horizon, to roll either as part of a jink (less predictable flight
> path), or so you can look back and see where your bomb(s) hit. During
this
> rolling-pull it is easy to over-g the wing stations on the F-15E.
Usually
> only requires a visual inspection by maintenance to clear the jet.
This may
> have been one of the causes, though certainly not the only one.
Not sure what book Steve's reading ("Strike Eagle," by
William(?) Smallwood), but the first night or two of the war they were
yanking and banking for all they were worth. IIRC, one of the first
missions involved a four-ship going in to hit an oil refinery in TF
flight at night. The Iraqis knew they were coming, and the path they
would have to take, and some fires had already been started so they were
visible. The AAA was actually forming a tunnel, a cone of fire over the
ingress path (because if they depressed the guns any more, they'd be
shooting each other). One of the a/c damned near dug in a wingtip
during the egress (by the time the pilot became aware of the wizzo
screaming "Altitude!" at him the Radalt was reading 75 feet, and they
were in a steep bank at the time. One Beagle was lost on this mission,
and although it's officially credited to AAA it seems entirely possible
that they may have hit the ground while evading. That's one mission
I think requires two crew.
Another mission the same or the next night involved another four-ship,
which had to evade some SA-2s (I think). They were pulling for all they
were worth (because as the pilots themselves said, the ALQ-135 couldn't
jam the SA-2 at the time, and whether the RWR would even detect it was
iffy). One pilot mentioned that the thought that was in his mind as
Bitching Betty kept saying "Over-G. Over-G" was, "No Shit, Lady!" That
mya be the mission Steve refers to, as all four a/c had been
overstressed and required inspection.
BTW, anyone interested in accounts of missions and squadron life during
DS should read both of Smallwood's books, the above one and "Warthog."
Terrific first person accounts, with all the details buffs love.
Guy
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jarmo Lindberg
g_al...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <LpCe3.826$yp5....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> "Raptor05" <rapt...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> > The F-15E is easy to over-g, while rolling and pulling (asymmetric g).
> It
> > is common when pulling out of a dive bomb pass, once the nose is at or
> above
> > the horizon, to roll either as part of a jink (less predictable flight
> > path), or so you can look back and see where your bomb(s) hit. During
> this
> > rolling-pull it is easy to over-g the wing stations on the F-15E.
> Usually
> > only requires a visual inspection by maintenance to clear the jet.
> This may
> > have been one of the causes, though certainly not the only one.
>
> Not sure what book Steve's reading ("Strike Eagle," by
> William(?) Smallwood)
Sure seems right to me: "Strike Eagle" by William L. Smallwood,
Brassey's, McLean, Virginia, 1994, ISBN 0-02-881058-9
Met the WSO Reno a couple of times after the war.
--
Jarmo Lindberg
Fighter Squadron 21: http://www.mil.fi/joukot/satlsto/
Fighter Tactics Academy: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/
Steve Davies
--
Steve Davies
England
Jarmo Lindberg <>
Vincent Meslet
>Not sure what book Steve's reading ("Strike Eagle," by
>William(?) Smallwood),
That's probably the book, after this fabulous reading, I cant resist to
paint the Strike Eagle. I choose to put on canvas "the Basrah raid".
take a look at this oil on canvas @
http://perso.club-internet.fr/meslet/vincent/aviation_art/F15E.htm
p.s. Nothing to sell, just a passion to share.
Vincent "Frenchie" Meslet
more aviation art @
http://perso.club-internet.fr/meslet/vincent/aviation_art/galerie.htm