>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property rights and >>>> freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we get it from (free >>>> enterprise). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the vast >>> numbers
>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>> Pure nonsense!
>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>> the population starve to death.
>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>> shunned capitalism.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters...
>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of Capitalism, > especially
> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your own goofy
> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist] colonization of
> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include events
> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced the start
> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the Vietnam war and
> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by ugly > Capitalism.
> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good socialist
> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free" Capitalism
> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a cancer),
> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the Capitalists
> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in their path.
> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc, *caused* by
> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic concept and
democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the other.
and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
;-)
>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property rights and >>>> freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we get it from (free >>>> enterprise). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the vast >>> numbers
>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>> Pure nonsense!
>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>> the population starve to death.
>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>> shunned capitalism.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of Capitalism, > especially
> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your own goofy
> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist] colonization of
> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include events
> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced the start
> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the Vietnam war and
> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by ugly > Capitalism.
> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good socialist
> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free" Capitalism
> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a cancer),
> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the Capitalists
> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in their path.
> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc, *caused* by
> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic concept and
democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the other.
and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
;-)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism supports the
individual, whereas democracy and government limits the individual...?
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
--- Ayn Rand
>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>> vast numbers
>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>> Pure nonsense!
>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>> the population starve to death.
>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>> shunned capitalism.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters...
>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>> Capitalism, especially
>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>> own goofy
>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>> colonization of
>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>> events
>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>> the start
>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>> Vietnam war and
>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>> ugly Capitalism.
>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>> socialist
>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>> Capitalism
>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>> cancer),
>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>> Capitalists
>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>> their path.
>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>> *caused* by
>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
> concept and
> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
> other.
> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> ;-)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
> supports the
> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
> individual...?
> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
> --- Ayn Rand
Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is where you trash your own country to make more money and power for just yourself. Screw the regular people.
Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White Landowners.
What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote. Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes me not vote for them.
I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican. But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
> >>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
> >>>> a425couple wrote:
> >>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
> >>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
> >>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
> >>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
> >>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
> >>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
> >>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
> >>>> vast numbers
> >>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
> >>> Pure nonsense!
> >>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
> >>> the population starve to death.
> >>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
> >>> capitalism develop effective trade,
> >>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
> >>> shunned capitalism.
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... > >>> eath_toll#Famine
> >>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
> >>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
> >>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
> >>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> >> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
> >> Capitalism, especially
> >> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
> >> own goofy
> >> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
> >> colonization of
> >> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
> >> events
> >> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
> >> the start
> >> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
> >> Vietnam war and
> >> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
> >> ugly Capitalism.
> >> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
> >> socialist
> >> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> >> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
> >> Capitalism
> >> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> >> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
> >> cancer),
> >> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
> >> Capitalists
> >> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
> >> their path.
> >> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> >> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
> >> *caused* by
> >> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> > I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
> > concept and
> > democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
> > other.
> > and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> > ;-)
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
> > supports the
> > individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
> > individual...?
> > "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
> > individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
> > --- Ayn Rand
> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all > involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is > where you trash your own country to make more money and power for > just yourself. Screw the regular people.
> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It > outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of > mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's > healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has > gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic > for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks > voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non > White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a > country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United > States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White > Landowners.
> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and > Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but > the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be > allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is > what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have > no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the > Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the > Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to > correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote. > Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes > me not vote for them.
> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If > we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican. > But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they, through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom they negotiate salaries and benefits.
Since the US Supreme Court ruled that corporations are in fact individuals and granted corporations all the rights and privileges of a person, except voting rights, corporations and the capitalists that run them are therefore democratic citizens of the United States.
---
meport
>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property rights and >>>> freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we get it from (free >>>> enterprise). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the vast >>> numbers
>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>> Pure nonsense!
>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>> the population starve to death.
>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>> shunned capitalism.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of Capitalism, > especially
> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your own goofy
> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist] colonization of
> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include events
> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced the start
> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the Vietnam war and
> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by ugly > Capitalism.
> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good socialist
> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free" Capitalism
> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a cancer),
> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the Capitalists
> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in their path.
> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc, *caused* by
> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic concept and
democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the other.
and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
;-)
>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>> own goofy
>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>> colonization of
>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>> events
>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>> the start
>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>> socialist
>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>> Capitalism
>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>> cancer),
>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>> Capitalists
>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>> their path.
>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>> *caused* by
>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>> concept and
>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>> other.
>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>> ;-)
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>> supports the
>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>> individual...?
>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>> --- Ayn Rand
>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>> Landowners.
>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>> me not vote for them.
>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they,
> through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom
> they negotiate salaries and benefits.
> Since the US Supreme Court ruled that corporations are in fact
> individuals and granted corporations all the rights and
> privileges of a person, except voting rights, corporations and
> the capitalists that run them are therefore democratic citizens
> of the United States.
> ---
> meport
And you don't see a problem with this? They don't have to even come close to FACT CHECK!. And they can contribute millions as long as it's not directly to the candidate. Yes, lump in Unions along with Corporations since Unions ARE Corporations.
>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>> vast numbers
>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>> Pure nonsense!
>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>> the population starve to death.
>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>> shunned capitalism.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters...
>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>> Capitalism, especially
>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>> own goofy
>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>> colonization of
>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>> events
>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>> the start
>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>> Vietnam war and
>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>> ugly Capitalism.
>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>> socialist
>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>> Capitalism
>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>> cancer),
>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>> Capitalists
>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>> their path.
>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>> *caused* by
>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
> concept and
> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
> other.
> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> ;-)
>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property rights and >>>>> freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we get it from (free >>>>> enterprise). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the vast >>>> numbers
>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>> Pure nonsense!
>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>> the population starve to death.
>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>> shunned capitalism.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters...
>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of Capitalism, >> especially
>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your own goofy
>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist] colonization of
>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include events
>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced the start
>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the Vietnam war and
>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by ugly >> Capitalism.
>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good socialist
>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free" Capitalism
>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a cancer),
>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the Capitalists
>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in their path.
>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc, *caused* by
>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic concept and
> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the other.
> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> ;-)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism supports the
> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the individual...?
Ah...thanks for the explanation. Where to start with your gross ignorance...
A Republic is also a democracy.
A democracy is *foremost* about the individual.
Capitalism does not "support" it's exploited individuals (e.g. slaves).
Complaining democracy limits the individual...son, ya want more than 1 vote?
Government is *supposed* to limit the individual.
Democracy and capitalism are not mutually exclusive.
Capitalism is an economic concept and democracy is a governing concept
...neither is necessary for the other.
you seem to be a confused person...so i ignored your stupid Ayn Rand quote
;-)
> >>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
> >>>> a425couple wrote:
> >>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
> >>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
> >>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
> >>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property rights and > >>>>> freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we get it from (free > >>>>> enterprise). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
> >>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the vast > >>>> numbers
> >>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
> >>> Pure nonsense!
> >>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
> >>> the population starve to death.
> >>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
> >>> capitalism develop effective trade,
> >>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
> >>> shunned capitalism.
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... > >>> eath_toll#Famine
> >>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
> >>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
> >>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
> >>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> >> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of Capitalism, > >> especially
> >> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your own goofy
> >> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist] colonization of
> >> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include events
> >> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced the start
> >> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the Vietnam war and
> >> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by ugly > >> Capitalism.
> >> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good socialist
> >> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> >> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free" Capitalism
> >> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> >> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a cancer),
> >> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the Capitalists
> >> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in their path.
> >> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> >> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc, *caused* by
> >> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> > I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic concept and
> > democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the other.
> > and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> > ;-)
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism supports the
> > individual, whereas democracy and government limits the individual...?
> Ah...thanks for the explanation. Where to start with your gross ignorance...
> A Republic is also a democracy.
Wrong! In a republic, designated representatives create legislation and policy; in a democracy, the majority of citizens do these tasks.
> A democracy is *foremost* about the individual.
Wrong! In a democracy the individual is subservient to the majority. The most extreme version is "three wolves and two sheep voting on tonight's dinner menu, while a constitutional republic is a well-armed sheep conteting the vote."
> Capitalism does not "support" it's exploited individuals (e.g. slaves).
Wrong! Capitalism is the individual (or a group of individuals) creating business enterprises. It is Constitutional limits that govern power here.
> Complaining democracy limits the individual...son, ya want more than 1 vote?
It depends on whether you are one of the sheep or one of the wolves.
> Government is *supposed* to limit the individual.
... and a Constitution is *supposed* to limit Government.
> Democracy and capitalism are not mutually exclusive.
True.
> Capitalism is an economic concept and democracy is a governing concept
> ...neither is necessary for the other.
On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 12:17:24 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
<orfairba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Wrong! In a republic, designated representatives create legislation and >policy; in a democracy, the majority of citizens do these tasks.
We went through all this a couple of months ago and you collected a
phenominal spanking for claiming that republic is always
representative.
Oh, I see the problem with this. As every single American Citizen should.
What I see is greed winning every time because everyone lets the greedy win without ever trying to stop them. We take our crumbs and they get the cake.
Everyone keeps harping about "the problem(s) with our country" but no one ever defines what "the problem(s) is". Want to know what "the problem(s)" really is? Well, to put it bluntly you're "the problem". And I'm "the problem". And anyone who votes over and over and over again for the status quo is "the problem". Everyone who votes to elect same Congressman over and over and over again is "the problem". Everyone who votes to elect the same Senator over and over and over again is "the problem". Everyone who votes against their own self interests over and over and over again is "the problem". We give them the RIGHT to screw us to the wall and don't even try to stop them when they do and then we wonder what "the problem" is.
So what's the solution? You know what the solution is. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Stop gripping and screaming to yourself in the wilderness. DO SOMETHING TO STOP THEM. Vote them out of office. Don't fall into the trap they want you to fall into. Don't accept the lies YOUR Congressman tells you. Don't think it's not YOUR Congressman. Stop diluting yourself into thinking that YOUR Congressman is totally in altruistic and that it's the other guys Congressman who is at fault. BECAUSE IT IS YOUR CONGRESSMAN. Their "the problem" and you know it. Stop diluting yourself about the real facts and do something about it.
---
meport
> Since the US Supreme Court ruled that corporations are in fact
> individuals and granted corporations all the rights and
> privileges of a person, except voting rights, corporations and
> the capitalists that run them are therefore democratic citizens
> of the United States.
> ---
> meport
And you don't see a problem with this? They don't have to even
come close to FACT CHECK!. And they can contribute millions as
long as it's not directly to the candidate. Yes, lump in Unions
along with Corporations since Unions ARE Corporations.
>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>> vast numbers
>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>> Pure nonsense!
>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>> the population starve to death.
>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>> shunned capitalism.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters...
>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>> Capitalism, especially
>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>> own goofy
>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>> colonization of
>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>> events
>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>> the start
>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>> Vietnam war and
>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>> ugly Capitalism.
>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>> socialist
>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>> Capitalism
>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>> cancer),
>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>> Capitalists
>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>> their path.
>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>> *caused* by
>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
> concept and
> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
> other.
> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> ;-)
> Oh, I see the problem with this. As every single American
> Citizen should.
> What I see is greed winning every time because everyone lets the
> greedy win without ever trying to stop them. We take our crumbs
> and they get the cake.
><trimmed>
The biggest problem is, we have the Fox guarding the Fox House and wondering where all the chickens have gone. We need an external to clean the mess up. One that has the power and freedom to take action. Not direct action but to report to the American People when the laws they need to clean things up is voted down by our Congress. The Enemy here isn't the President or the Courts, it's the Congress who are about as corrupt as you can get.
>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>> own goofy
>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>> colonization of
>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>> events
>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>> the start
>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>> socialist
>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>> Capitalism
>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>> cancer),
>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>> Capitalists
>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>> their path.
>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>> *caused* by
>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>> concept and
>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>> other.
>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>> ;-)
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>> supports the
>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>> individual...?
>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>> --- Ayn Rand
>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>> Landowners.
>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>> me not vote for them.
>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they,
> through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom
> they negotiate salaries and benefits.
Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have a say !
The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent against such !
So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
>>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >>>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>>> own goofy
>>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>>> colonization of
>>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>>> events
>>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>>> the start
>>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>>> socialist
>>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>>> Capitalism
>>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>>> cancer),
>>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>>> Capitalists
>>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>>> their path.
>>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>>> *caused* by
>>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>>> concept and
>>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>>> other.
>>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>>> ;-)
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>>> supports the
>>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>>> individual...?
>>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>>> --- Ayn Rand
>>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>>> Landowners.
>>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>>> me not vote for them.
>>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
>> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
>> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they,
>> through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom
>> they negotiate salaries and benefits.
> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have a say !
> The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent against such !
> So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:42:25 -0700, Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com>
wrote:
>On 11/6/2012 4:27 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
>>> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they,
>>> through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom
>>> they negotiate salaries and benefits.
>> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have a say !
>> The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent against such !
>> So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
>Say with the Employer, not the Government.
Freedom of association is a fundamental human right.
Why do you seek to remove this from a single section of society?
You missed my entire point. Yes Congress is a putrid sewer of corruption and self interest. BUT STOP BLAMING CONGRESS. Blame yourself and every other voter who gets in the election booth and puts his or her mark next to the name of the incumbent.
WE HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME EXCEPT OURSELVES. WE, NOT THEM, ARE THE PROBLEM.
We have to stop being the tools, the enablers, the supporters of their corruption. We have to stop automatically voting for them and sending them back time after time to ply their sleaze.
We're the problem because we keep reelecting them. They glorify in our stupidity. They know what they are and they prey on us. And laugh their way to the bank weekly.
---
meport
> Oh, I see the problem with this. As every single American
> Citizen should.
> What I see is greed winning every time because everyone lets the
> greedy win without ever trying to stop them. We take our crumbs
> and they get the cake.
><trimmed>
The biggest problem is, we have the Fox guarding the Fox House
and wondering where all the chickens have gone. We need an
external to clean the mess up. One that has the power and
freedom to take action. Not direct action but to report to the
American People when the laws they need to clean things up is
voted down by our Congress. The Enemy here isn't the President
or the Courts, it's the Congress who are about as corrupt as you
can get.
>>>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >>>>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>>>> own goofy
>>>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>>>> colonization of
>>>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>>>> events
>>>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>>>> the start
>>>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>>>> socialist
>>>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>>>> Capitalism
>>>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>>>> cancer),
>>>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>>>> Capitalists
>>>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>>>> their path.
>>>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>>>> *caused* by
>>>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>>>> concept and
>>>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>>>> other.
>>>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>>>> supports the
>>>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>>>> individual...?
>>>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>>>> --- Ayn Rand
>>>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>>>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>>>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>>>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>>>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>>>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>>>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>>>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>>>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>>>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>>>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>>>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>>>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>>>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>>>> Landowners.
>>>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>>>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>>>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>>>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>>>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>>>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>>>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>>>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>>>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>>>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>>>> me not vote for them.
>>>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>>>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>>>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
>>> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
>>> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since
>>> they, through their PACs and their own resources can control those
>>> with whom they negotiate salaries and benefits.
>> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have
>> a say ! The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent
>> against such ! So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
> Say with the Employer, not the Government.
Would you mind retrying your response in clear and concise English, Daryl ?
Because I don't have a clue what you just said
cheers....Jeff
> >>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
> >>>>>> a425couple wrote:
> >>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
> >>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
> >>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
> >>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
> >>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
> >>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
> >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
> >>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
> >>>>>> vast numbers
> >>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
> >>>>> Pure nonsense!
> >>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
> >>>>> the population starve to death.
> >>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
> >>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
> >>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
> >>>>> shunned capitalism.
> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by > >>>>> _d
> >>>>> eath_toll#Famine
> >>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
> >>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
> >>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
> >>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> >>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
> >>>> Capitalism, especially
> >>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
> >>>> own goofy
> >>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
> >>>> colonization of
> >>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
> >>>> events
> >>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
> >>>> the start
> >>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
> >>>> Vietnam war and
> >>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
> >>>> ugly Capitalism.
> >>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
> >>>> socialist
> >>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> >>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
> >>>> Capitalism
> >>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> >>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
> >>>> cancer),
> >>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
> >>>> Capitalists
> >>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
> >>>> their path.
> >>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> >>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
> >>>> *caused* by
> >>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> >>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
> >>> concept and
> >>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
> >>> other.
> >>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> >>> ;-)
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
> >>> supports the
> >>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
> >>> individual...?
> >>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
> >>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
> >>> --- Ayn Rand
> >> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
> >> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
> >> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
> >> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
> >> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
> >> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
> >> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
> >> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
> >> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
> >> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
> >> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
> >> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
> >> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
> >> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
> >> Landowners.
> >> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
> >> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
> >> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
> >> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
> >> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
> >> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
> >> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
> >> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
> >> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
> >> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
> >> me not vote for them.
> >> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
> >> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
> >> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
> > By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
> > political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they,
> > through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom
> > they negotiate salaries and benefits.
> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have a say !
> The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent against such !
> So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
> cheers....Jeff
Unions have evolved into businesses themselves, often losing sight of their original intent, which was to represent the membership. When union bosses pull in 7-figure salaries plus benefits, it a rather hard pill to swallow that "Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have a say," rather than another bull elephant in the fight to trample the ground.
>>>>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >>>>>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>>>>> own goofy
>>>>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>>>>> colonization of
>>>>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>>>>> events
>>>>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>>>>> the start
>>>>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>>>>> socialist
>>>>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>>>>> Capitalism
>>>>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>>>>> cancer),
>>>>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>>>>> Capitalists
>>>>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>>>>> their path.
>>>>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>>>>> *caused* by
>>>>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>>>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>>>>> concept and
>>>>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>>>>> other.
>>>>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>>>>> supports the
>>>>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>>>>> individual...?
>>>>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>>>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>>>>> --- Ayn Rand
>>>>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>>>>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>>>>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>>>>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>>>>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>>>>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>>>>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>>>>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>>>>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>>>>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>>>>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>>>>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>>>>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>>>>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>>>>> Landowners.
>>>>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>>>>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>>>>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>>>>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>>>>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>>>>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>>>>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>>>>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>>>>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>>>>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>>>>> me not vote for them.
>>>>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>>>>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>>>>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
>>>> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
>>>> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since
>>>> they, through their PACs and their own resources can control those
>>>> with whom they negotiate salaries and benefits.
>>> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have
>>> a say ! The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent
>>> against such ! So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
>> Say with the Employer, not the Government.
> Would you mind retrying your response in clear and concise English, Daryl ?
> Because I don't have a clue what you just said
> cheers....Jeff
> You missed my entire point. Yes Congress is a putrid sewer of
> corruption and self interest. BUT STOP BLAMING CONGRESS. Blame
> yourself and every other voter who gets in the election booth and
> puts his or her mark next to the name of the incumbent.
> WE HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME EXCEPT OURSELVES. WE, NOT THEM, ARE THE
> PROBLEM.
> We have to stop being the tools, the enablers, the supporters of
> their corruption. We have to stop automatically voting for them
> and sending them back time after time to ply their sleaze.
> We're the problem because we keep reelecting them. They glorify
> in our stupidity. They know what they are and they prey on us.
> And laugh their way to the bank weekly.
> ---
> meport
I think the blame needs to be directed at congress. This Presidential Election will change almost nothing. Business as usual for congress. We forget the message from Bugs Bunny.
>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters... >>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>> own goofy
>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>> colonization of
>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>> events
>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>> the start
>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>> socialist
>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>> Capitalism
>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>> cancer),
>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>> Capitalists
>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>> their path.
>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>> *caused* by
>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>> concept and
>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>> other.
>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>> ;-)
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>> supports the
>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>> individual...?
>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>> --- Ayn Rand
>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>> Landowners.
>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>> me not vote for them.
>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since they,
> through their PACs and their own resources can control those with whom
> they negotiate salaries and benefits.
But you don't mind the Koch brothers not only sponsoring the Tea Party, but also chipping in at least $100 million for various Republican campaigns during this presidential run ?
Now why is that, Orval ?
>>>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>>>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
>>>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
>>>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
>>>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
>>>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
>>>>>>>> vast numbers
>>>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
>>>>>>> Pure nonsense!
>>>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
>>>>>>> the population starve to death.
>>>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
>>>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
>>>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
>>>>>>> shunned capitalism.
>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by >>>>>>> _d
>>>>>>> eath_toll#Famine
>>>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
>>>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
>>>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
>>>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
>>>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
>>>>>> Capitalism, especially
>>>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
>>>>>> own goofy
>>>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
>>>>>> colonization of
>>>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
>>>>>> events
>>>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
>>>>>> the start
>>>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
>>>>>> Vietnam war and
>>>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
>>>>>> ugly Capitalism.
>>>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
>>>>>> socialist
>>>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
>>>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
>>>>>> Capitalism
>>>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
>>>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
>>>>>> cancer),
>>>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
>>>>>> Capitalists
>>>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
>>>>>> their path.
>>>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
>>>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
>>>>>> *caused* by
>>>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
>>>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
>>>>> concept and
>>>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
>>>>> other.
>>>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
>>>>> supports the
>>>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
>>>>> individual...?
>>>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
>>>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
>>>>> --- Ayn Rand
>>>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
>>>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
>>>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
>>>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
>>>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
>>>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
>>>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
>>>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
>>>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
>>>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
>>>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
>>>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
>>>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
>>>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
>>>> Landowners.
>>>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
>>>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
>>>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
>>>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
>>>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
>>>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
>>>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
>>>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
>>>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
>>>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
>>>> me not vote for them.
>>>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
>>>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
>>>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
>>> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
>>> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since
>>> they, through their PACs and their own resources can control those
>>> with whom they negotiate salaries and benefits.
>> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have
>> a say ! The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent
>> against such ! So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
>> cheers....Jeff
> Unions have evolved into businesses themselves, often losing sight of
> their original intent, which was to represent the membership. When
> union bosses pull in 7-figure salaries plus benefits,
Would you be able to supply some cites for these seven figure salaries you're speaking of, Orval ?
it a rather
> hard pill to swallow that "Unions are nothing more than an
> middleclass workers attempt to have a say," rather than another bull
> elephant in the fight to trample the ground.
Have you ever seen what happens to workers who don't have Union representation , Orval ?
The bull elephant trampling the ground is a good analogy, because that's what management can easily do and THAT is why workers need unions.
On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 21:31:01 -0400, Orval Fairbairn
<orfairba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Unions have evolved into businesses themselves, often losing sight of >their original intent, which was to represent the membership. When union >bosses pull in 7-figure salaries plus benefits, it a rather hard pill to >swallow that "Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers >attempt to have a say," rather than another bull elephant in the fight >to trample the ground.
> >>>>>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in message...
> >>>>>>>> a425couple wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> "Eris" <vith...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
> >>>>>>>>>> Corporate Capitalism is not democracy
> >>>>>>>>>> It isn't capitalism either. It's a corporatocracy
> >>>>>>>>> Sigh, Capitalism is our economic system, with property
> >>>>>>>>> rights and freedom of choices as to what we get, and who we
> >>>>>>>>> get it from (free enterprise).
> >>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
> >>>>>>>> As usual you leave out the ugliness of Capitalism. e.g. the
> >>>>>>>> vast numbers
> >>>>>>>> of people who are left in the worst poverty
> >>>>>>> Pure nonsense!
> >>>>>>> The "worst poverty" is clearly when large numbers of
> >>>>>>> the population starve to death.
> >>>>>>> That was clearly in the years before corporations helped
> >>>>>>> capitalism develop effective trade,
> >>>>>>> or in areas of the world that in more modern times
> >>>>>>> shunned capitalism.
> >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_ > >>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>> _d
> >>>>>>> eath_toll#Famine
> >>>>>>> China 1959-61, between 15 and 43 million.
> >>>>>>> USSR 1932-39, between 6 and 8 million.
> >>>>>>> USSR 1929-1922, between 5 and 10 million.
> >>>>>>> Starving to death IS clearly the "worst poverty".
> >>>>>> Again, as usual you completely ignore the ugliness of
> >>>>>> Capitalism, especially
> >>>>>> South of the Rio Grande down through South America. Son your
> >>>>>> own goofy
> >>>>>> website says up to 100 million killed by the [Capitalist]
> >>>>>> colonization of
> >>>>>> America, and if you want to play this game you need to include
> >>>>>> events
> >>>>>> like WW1, up to 65 million, as Capitalism certainly influenced
> >>>>>> the start
> >>>>>> of that war, and *certainly* the 7 million killed in the
> >>>>>> Vietnam war and
> >>>>>> the millions killed in Vietnam before 1945 were all caused by
> >>>>>> ugly Capitalism.
> >>>>>> Again, Capitalism is fine if it is well controlled by good
> >>>>>> socialist
> >>>>>> laws like anti-monopoly laws, minimum wage, 8 hour days, child
> >>>>>> labor laws, workers comp insurance, etc. but your "free"
> >>>>>> Capitalism
> >>>>>> is the ugliest as it leads to business owners ruthlessly cheating
> >>>>>> people out of a livable wage, and uncontrolled growth (like a
> >>>>>> cancer),
> >>>>>> as Capitalism *always* needs new markets to exploit, so the
> >>>>>> Capitalists
> >>>>>> move on to exploit elsewhere leaving blight and poverty in
> >>>>>> their path.
> >>>>>> So don't forget to add in every child who died of malnutrition,
> >>>>>> or infant deaths caused by inadequate health care, etc,
> >>>>>> *caused* by
> >>>>>> the greedy Capitalists...in your silly dishonest numbers game.
> >>>>> I add, the OP (Eris) is correct...Capitalism is an economic
> >>>>> concept and
> >>>>> democracy is a governing concept...neither is necessary for the
> >>>>> other.
> >>>>> and why are we capitalizing Capitalism but not democracy?
> >>>>> ;-)
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> Perhaps because we are a Republic? Perhaps because capitalism
> >>>>> supports the
> >>>>> individual, whereas democracy and government limits the
> >>>>> individual...?
> >>>>> "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
> >>>>> individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
> >>>>> --- Ayn Rand
> >>>> Capitalism, if use properly results in the better life of all
> >>>> involved. capitalism as it is today (not the small case) is
> >>>> where you trash your own country to make more money and power for
> >>>> just yourself. Screw the regular people.
> >>>> Democracy lasts about 10 minutes as a community grows. It
> >>>> outgrows it very quickly is is replaced by either a flavor of
> >>>> mixed Republic or a mixed Socialist Government. Usually, it's
> >>>> healthy to borrow from both. It's a balancing act. The US has
> >>>> gone from a Democracy that lasted about 10 minutes to a Republic
> >>>> for just the Rich While Landowners, to women voting, Blacks
> >>>> voting, Polling Stations that used bully boys to prevent Non
> >>>> White Rich Landowners from voting, and more. If you are in a
> >>>> country that is a Democracy then you don't live in the United
> >>>> States past the 10 minutes it was one for just the Rich White
> >>>> Landowners.
> >>>> What you do live in, right now, is a mix of Republic and
> >>>> Corporate controlled Government. The Republic side is good but
> >>>> the Corporate side is extremely bad. Corporations should not be
> >>>> allowed in Politics like they are today. What we have today is
> >>>> what I like to call Corporate Republic. Correct that and I have
> >>>> no trouble with the policies of the Right. Unfortunately, the
> >>>> Corporation have purchased out Government from the local to the
> >>>> Federal. Had a Republican stand up and say they are going to
> >>>> correct this and actually go and do it, then they have my vote.
> >>>> Until then, their lack of FACT CHECKING and outright lying makes
> >>>> me not vote for them.
> >>>> I didn't move towards the left, the right moved away from me. If
> >>>> we were in the Truman Time, I would be a Right Wing Republican.
> >>>> But not today. Especially with the way you children are operating.
> >>> By the same token as above, we should not allow unions to have a
> >>> political say, nor should we allow public employee unions, since
> >>> they, through their PACs and their own resources can control those
> >>> with whom they negotiate salaries and benefits.
> >> Unions are nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have
> >> a say ! The ..."Right To Work States"movement ... are an argmanent
> >> against such ! So why should Unions _not_ have a say ?
> >> cheers....Jeff
> > Unions have evolved into businesses themselves, often losing sight of
> > their original intent, which was to represent the membership. When
> > union bosses pull in 7-figure salaries plus benefits,
> Would you be able to supply some cites for these seven figure salaries > you're speaking of, Orval ?
It is obvious that the unions are major businesses and act as such and are major players in politics, rather than simple "nothing more than an middleclass workers attempt to have a say."
> it a rather
> > hard pill to swallow that "Unions are nothing more than an
> > middleclass workers attempt to have a say," rather than another bull
> > elephant in the fight to trample the
