Fw-190TL Large Drawing
Rob Arndt
The engine was a Focke-Wulf T-1 centrufugal turbojet of 600 kg
Rob
Dan
a turbojet where is the exhaust. Turbojets tend to have a rather large
exhaust aimed aft. Did you mean turboprop? If so should I infer the the
exhaust is on the other side?
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Dave Deep
DD
"Dan" <B2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:arI5g.57148$IZ2.3715@dukeread07...
Rob Arndt
spaces between the engine cowling and the fuselage- although this is a
turbojet and not a thermal jet.
In the book "Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Fighters 1939-1945" on page 48
it tells of the Fw-190TL conversion of late 1942 and the T-1 engine is
diagramed.
It should be online as well. I have posted on this before but this is
the largest drawing I have seen of it.
Rob
p.s. Please note that the LSP series does not just deal with paper
projects, but all prop, jet, and rocket projects with photos of
prototypes and/or diagrams, drawings, schematics, etc... even prototype
armaments and engines
Rob Arndt
History:
The FW-190TL was one of the earliest Focke-Wulf jet projects. This 1941
design is based on a standard FW-190 fighter powered with a FW T.1
turbojet (600kg) in place of the BMW piston engine. The jet comprised a
two-stage radial compressor, single-stage turbine and an annualar
combustion chamber. The exhaust passed through as annular outlet
running around the circumference of the fuselage. Development was
discontinued in 1942.
FW.190 Turbojet data:
Length.........8.84m
Span............10.5m
Wing area....18.3sq.m
Max. speed..760km/h at sea level,
830km/h at 9,000m
Endurance..1hour 12 min.
http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/germ/fwturbo/fwturbodr.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/uni1ua/bigph/fwturbo.jpg
Rob
Dan
> Like the Coanda Turbine Aeorplane of 1910, the exhaust exits in the
> spaces between the engine cowling and the fuselage- although this is a
> turbojet and not a thermal jet.
You don't understand jet engines, do you?
Dan
>>From the Unicraft Site
>
> History:
>
> The FW-190TL was one of the earliest Focke-Wulf jet projects. This 1941
> design is based on a standard FW-190 fighter powered with a FW T.1
> turbojet (600kg) in place of the BMW piston engine. The jet comprised a
> two-stage radial compressor, single-stage turbine and an annualar
> combustion chamber. The exhaust passed through as annular outlet
> running around the circumference of the fuselage. Development was
> discontinued in 1942.
>
Steve Hix
wrote:
Looks almost like someone decided to make the front look like the
Caproni-Campini CC-2, and forgot about the exhaust.
Rob Arndt
comprehend, even though a schematic WAS provided and this was a REAL
project???!!!
Rob
Rob Arndt
Hey Steve,
The Coanda Turbine Aeroplane predates the CC-2 by 3 decades (1910 vs
1940) and it had a 50 hp engine driving an obturator that sucked in air
into combustion burners that blew hot exhaust aft over the fuselage
body enough to generate lift for the biplane. It was a thermal jet just
like the CC-2... and the world's first purpose designed jet aircraft.
Again, how can you not understand an annular exhaust ring with the
Fw-190TL T-1 engine???
Rob
Dan
outward which would be very inefficient, the heat from the exhaust would
damage the airframe, the flat nose would be very draggy, the engine was
weak and was all round a stupid idea. What part of that do you not
understand, you Nazi freak? Oh, and before you get any ideas, please
don't make any more passes at me, I prefer women.
Rob Arndt
You really need psychiatric help b/c you are one sick bastard.
Your ignorant little brain can't comprehend a simple TEST aircraft with
a TEST engine from 1941-42.
The point is that from scratch Focke-Wulf came up with a SIMPLE
centrifugal turbojet and would have had designs for more had they not
been too busy cranking out Fw-190s which numbered 20,000 by war's end.
Heinrich Focke, if you knew his biography, had a 1939 patent for a VTOL
circular a/c called the Fw Schnellflugzeug Rochen which was proposed to
be driven by a turboshaft engine. Focke did not pursue the design due
to the early development problems with the German jets; however,
Focke-Wulf proved they could come up with a jet engine of their own and
had the need arisen for jet 190s or OTHER Fw designs, Focke-Wulf could
have manufactured their own engines at that point in time.
BTW, had Coanda been a pilot when his Turbine Aeroplane started to move
forward as he adjusted the engine then that a/c might have actually
flown in 1910 and then we would have had turbojet biplanes in WW1!
Nevertheless, we can thank God for that disaster b/c it was with the
Turbine Aeroplane that Coanda made his famous discovery- the "Coanda
Effect" by observing the exhaust following the contours of the
fuselage.
Stop be such a hateful old degenerate and remember to take your meds.
Rob
Richard Lamb
I have noticed that almost everyone seems to be quite rude.
Such immature behavior.
All the name calling and buzz-wording.
Taunting.
Vulgar language.
Conduct very unbecoming.
I am not amused.
So,
The Betty Grabel movie is canceled.
You will all report to the mess tent for KP.
You might use this as an opportunity to study your lives,
What kind of man do you think you are?
What kind of man do I think you are?
...
while cleaning out the grease traps!
Mess Sergeant, take charge.
Dave Deep
calmly explain why the person is wrong. If in your original post you had
included the spec, and cutaway a short description of the Coander effect &
maybe a diagram showing the gas flow I feel that it would have been better
recieved and taken more seriously. What I have the biggest problem with in
your posts are their lack of substance a picture is nice sure but posting it
with in context technical detail & historical reference is so much better
and a lot less annoying & please, please leave out the personal & Political
comments they are not relevant & often very inflamatory.
Dave
"Rob Arndt" <B44Th...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1146636493.1...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Rob Arndt
Logic would dictate that if you cannot find an exhaust port anywhere
else on that aircraft than the engine HAS to have an ANNULAR exhaust,
especially if it is nose mounted as the thrust HAS to move aft to
generate lift for the wings.
DUH???
Have you even seen Coanda's 1910 Turbine Aeroplane?
I doubt it, because then you could have put 2+2 together and the little
light bulb would have went off in your cranium...
Rob
Steve Hix
Richard Lamb <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have noticed that almost everyone seems to be quite rude.
>
> Such immature behavior.
>
> All the name calling and buzz-wording.
> Taunting.
> Vulgar language.
> Conduct very unbecoming.
>
> I am not amused.
You're new in these parts, aren't you?
Hang around for a while, get some exposure to Arndt and his frothings.
Before you know it, *you'll* be leading the jeering section.
> [snip]
Dave Deep
you're other and by FAR biggest annoying quirk is that you do not
listen or pay attention to anyone elses opinions and views lokk how you have
just ingnored my last post! Just because somthing is evident to you AFTER
your research why should it be obvious to everyone else especially as they
have not had the access to the info you have! Your lack of patience with
other people who did not have access to ALL the info you did plus you
treating them like idiots in a very offensive and condescending manner
cannot help but turn them into your enemies; Why not try talking TO people
instead of AT them!
Rob I have tried my best for the 2nd time
to try and show you where you are going wrong and why people have nothing
but contempt for your views and dismiss your posts, I doubt very much you
will listen of course as you suffer from the same disease the 3rd Reich did
inflexibility & the inability to comprend the views and beliefs of others.
Dave
"Rob Arndt" <B44Th...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1146688209....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Richard Lamb
Probably more like "entering coordinates"...
I guess I thought "we" were more evolved, I guess.
It's rather disappointing, is all.
Sekstus Empiryk
Uzytkownik "Rob Arndt" <B44Th...@aol.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:1146626789.0...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> The Coanda Turbine Aeroplane predates the CC-2 by 3 decades (1910 vs
> 1940) and it had a 50 hp engine driving an obturator that sucked in
air
> into combustion burners that blew hot exhaust aft over the fuselage
> body enough to generate lift for the biplane. It was a thermal jet
just
> like the CC-2... and the world's first purpose designed jet aircraft.
> Again, how can you not understand an annular exhaust ring with the
> Fw-190TL T-1 engine???
Hey, Rob!
I understand HOW, but don't understand WHY? WHY should they disturb
pilot's view by hot gases from annylar exhaust ring - especially in
fighter aircraft?
BTW all jets are 'thermal'. A little nitpick only...
frank
frank
This is one of the most common, earliest "Luftwaffe '46" designs
around. Maybe if someone contact an FW engineer he could explain why.
Maybe he would explain that exhaust is the reason why it never got
built. FW also had a 190 version with a jet engine like the USSR's
Yak-15. Maybe that's where they got the idea. My 2 cents.
Rob Arndt
air comes in through the front intake, is supercompressed and heated in
the turbine blades, mixed with fuel, and ignited at the rear- the hot
exhaust providing thrust for the a/c.
In Coanda's Turbine Aeroplane, the 50 hp engine-driven obturator intake
sucked in air that was sent to heating chambers and then the heated
exhaust exited to the sides of the plated fuselage. No turbines
involved in the process; hence no turbojet. It was considered a thermal
type that changes cool air into hot exhaust. The "Turbine" designation
refers to the obturator acting as a air suction impeller, but it
neither supercompresses nor heats the air as does a turbojet. The
burners were also box-like, but contained in one unit that resembled a
large turbine.
The 1940 Italian C.C.2 (correct designation C.C.- N.1) was also a
thermal type that used a 900 hp engine to drive a ducted fan that
increasd airflow into an annular afterburning combustor ring. Again, no
turbine process, no turbojet. The N.1 had a speed of only 205 mph at
9,800 ft and with afterburner, 233 mph.
Rob
Rob Arndt
Frank,
A few major errors in your reply:
1) This was not a Luftwaffe '46 project at all since it was started in
1941 and ended in 1942 (cancelled)
2) The Fw-190 aircraft WAS modified, its BMW piston engine removed and
the Fw T1 turbojet mounted. So it was a real machine, the Fw-190 TL.
Maybe you are thinking of the Me-109TL instead?
3) Fw had MANY designs that could have utilized the Jumo 004B which is
what the POSTWAR Yak-15 of 1946 was flying on. The RD-10 was a Soviet
copy of the Jumo 004B... so WHAT are you talking about? How could the
Germans get an idea in 1941 from a postwar 1946 a/c that was using
German war technology???
Rob
Dan
> No, the jets are not the same type. In a turbojet (read: turbine jet)
> air comes in through the front intake, is supercompressed and heated in
> the turbine blades, mixed with fuel, and ignited at the rear- the hot
> exhaust providing thrust for the a/c.
If you don't know how a system works ask or look it it up. In a
turbojet air enters through the intake, is compressed (not
supercompressed), enters the combustion chamber(s)where it is mixed with
fuel and ignited then exits through turbine blades which spin the
compressor blades and out the exhaust.
Fuel ignited "in the rear" is called afterburner or reheat.
Rob Arndt
the extreme end. That is correct to say in simplistic operational terms
because the air intake is up front, the compressors in mid-section, and
combustion in the rear...
Rob
frank
consider it Luftwaffe '46 because it was a jet & never built. Just
because it was prior to '46 doesn't mean much, IMHO. No, I'm not
tginking of the Me 109TL. As for item 3, I'm talking about exactly what
you are. FW had a proposal essentially a 190 with the jet engine
mounted as the Yak-15 ended up, just as Yak did with the Yak-9 to get
the Yak-15. Maybe Yak got that idea from FW. Go get him, Dan, he's on
his own.
Rob Arndt
first jet air superiority fighter design of March 1943- which has
NOTHING in common with the Fw-190. Try looking that up in the book
"Luftwaffe Secret Projects, Fighters 1939-1945" pgs 48-49!!!
You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking about and you dare
to tell ME of all people about a Luftwaffe paper project!!! That is
unbelievable in the extreme.
Not my fault you tried to compare a 1941-42 actual project to the
postwar Yak-15 which used a German engine copy (RD-10)!!!
That's all you buddy... blame yourself.
Rob
Dan
Right, totally believable shuffle. You blew it, admit it.
frank
a legend in your own mind.
Sekstus Empiryk
> No, the jets are not the same type. In a turbojet (read: turbine jet)
Rob, I know what turbojet is and what Coanda aeroplane was (I saw a
replica in Bucharest). Believe me - all jets/fanjets/ramjets/scramjets
etc. work in some thermodynamic cycle, hence all are 'thermal'.
Rob Arndt
Turbine Aeroplane and the C.C.-N.1make the distiction of listing them
as thermal jets and NOT turbojets. The C.C.-N.1 was notorious for its
"Mickey-Mouse contraption" engine (a quote from that time period). It
was dismissed as a legitimate turbojet and relegated to mere thermal
jet... I rest my case.
Rob
p.s. How would you also describe an endothermic engine? This was
proposed by the Nazis as well as a cold exhaust engine with variable
nozzle. That is not a turbojet either as the cold exhaust would have
been a mix of air and chemical reactions inside a hollow chamber and
pressure squeezed through a variable nozzle at the tip of the fuselage.
Go ahead an explain how that would qualify as a turbo (short for
turbine) jet...