Obama: "Right-to-Work" Laws = "right to work for less money"

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

Obama Condemns "Right-to-Work" Laws in Michigan

During a visit to a Detroit-area auto plant Monday, President Obama
voiced his opposition to the *Republican* effort to pass anti-union legislation.

President Obama: "What we shouldn’t be doing is trying to take away
your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions. We
shouldn’t be doing that. These so-called right-to-work laws, they
don’t have to do with economics; they have everything to do with
politics. What they’re really talking about is giving you the right
to work for less money."

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/12/11/headlines#12113

http://www.democracynow.org
;-)

[Shawn Wilson]

On Dec 12, 8:16 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu>
wrote:

> Obama Condemns "Right-to-Work" Laws in Michigan

No surprise, it isn't like he knows anything about economics after
all.

>    President Obama: "What we shouldn t be doing is trying to take away
>    your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions. We
>    shouldn t be doing that. These so-called right-to-work laws, they
>    don t have to do with economics; they have everything to do with
>    politics. What they re really talking about is giving you the right
>    to work for less money."
>
> http://www.democracynow.org/2012/12/11/headlines#12113
>
> http://www.democracynow.org

Note, the richest workers have ever been is now (more or less) and
unions are historically *weak*. Obviously it isnt unions making
workers better off.

[Vaughn]

On 12/12/2012 6:24 PM, Shawn Wilson wrote:

>
> No surprise, it isn't like he knows anything about economics after
> all.

Wrong.

>
> Note, the richest workers have ever been is now (more or less)

Wrong again! I suggest that you cast your eyes on "Table H-6.
Regions--All Races by Median and Mean Income: 1975 to 2011" on the
Census Bureau site. Using constant dollars, we are about at 1996 levels
and dropping fast.

>and
> unions are historically *weak*. Obviously it isnt unions making
> workers better off.
>

Bingo! A perfect trifecta of wrongness! Amazing!

Try http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20030623ar01p1.htm

[︰ones]

Obama has it right; that's *exactly* what it is. If you're willing to
do the same job for less money, then why can't they hire you instead
of me, a union man, for quite a bit more?

Jones

[︰ones]

On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:24:52 -0800 (PST), in alt.war.vietnam Shawn
Wilson <ikono...@gmail.com> wrote:

>No surprise, it isn't like he knows anything about economics after
>all.

>Note, the richest workers have ever been is now (more or less) and
>unions are historically *weak*. Obviously it isnt unions making
>workers better off.

If the people of Michigan didn't feel like moving, they *had* to pass
RTW. Their auto plants are aging and any new construction is going to
other states.

They should have done it years ago!

Jones

[Dave Head]

Yeah, they have to pass "right to work" in all 50 states to be able to
complete the "race to the bottom" to get everyone that doesn't have a
college education to work for 38 cents an hour, while the CEO and all
the other executives rake in millions.

[Daryl]

Let's look at the long haul affects. We can use the Musicians
Union of Colorado.

I was stationed at Colorado Springs and was a member of the
Union. Yes, Lucy, you can be in the military and belong to a
union. This was in the early and middle 70s before the union was
broken. I worked for $125.00 for 4 hours, 45 on, three 15 minute
breaks. $25.00 of that went to the union. The Union booked us,
paid us, told us what we were worth, etc.. All we had to do is
show up, play and go home. No drugs, No Drunks, Clean Cut and we
worked the better clubs. No Toilets. You had to audition so
they could figure out your worth. Plus, I didn't have to belong
to a band. I was used as a floater (fill in for musicians). The
better you got, the more you were paid, the better clubs you
played in.

I went overseas for a number of years and came back into Colorado
in 1990. The Union had been broken. All of a sudden, my worth
(even though I was an accomplished musician, better than when I
was in the early 70s), I was working in the toilets and getting
half the wages I received in the early 70s. Most of the top
notched Clubs had closed down, there weren't enough of them to
employ the really good entertainers of yesterday. But the
Toilets were going strong. Instead, I was offered 50 bucks a
night with a band full of drunken druggies who sounded like crap.
The ones I had worked with had all gone on to full time jobs
outside the music industry. After trying to make it again, I
just walked away in about 3 months.

Was the union tough, was it controlling? Yes. It was. Did it
protect it's good jobs strongly? You bet. Was it the utopia?
Noper. But it WAS much better than without it.

It's not whether you have a union of not. It's the ability to
Threaten to have one that makes the difference.

The Right to Work Laws aren't there to openly destroy the union
but that is the result. Open Shop versus Closed Shop.

You can't have an affective union with an Open Shop where people
that work there can elect not to belong to the union and still
keep their jobs. In that situation, the Union really IS just
taking your money if you are a union member. Welcome to some of
the Right to Work Laws. The worst part of it is, they can
terminate without cause. Ever hear a statement of "We just don't
need you". Corporations try very hard to get around any and all
existing labor laws. Think of this, MacDonalds Franchise of many
stores, didn't pay overtime, short changed hours worked, etc..
It took the Labor Department YEARS to catch that one even with
all the complaints. But if you complain, you are terminated. If
you even mention UNION, you are terminated. "We just don't need
you" The Labor Department fined them and are having them repay
to workers (most of the workers no longer work for them) the
money they cheated the workers out of.

A Closed Shop requires ALL workers to be a member of one union or
another if it's elected to have a union with a closed shop. If
the People in the Union vote to strike, the whole place shuts
down. That sounds drastic and it is. But there are quite a few
steps before that can happen including Government Moderation.
Things have to be a long way between the workers wants and needs
and what the Company is willing to grant before it comes to this
drastic of an action. Even still, with the protection of the
Union, the Corporation still try to find ways around fair wage
and earnings.

The worst Company in the US that really needs a Union is your
local Walmart. Don't mention union while inside that building.
It's taboo and workers that mention it even in passing are
terminated, hours cut to zero, etc.. If you get hurt on the job
(after their crappy medical help) you can bet your job isn't long
for the world. All the reasons to actually HAVE a Union. But
with Right To Work, they can cut your hours, reduce you to zero
or near zero hours, give you the crappiest times that prevents
you from taking that second job to make it up or prevents you
from even applying for Partial Unemployment. If Walmart can't
get a non union store, don't look for them to bring their store
to YOUR location. Well, unless they can bribe your "Elected"
Officials that is. Is most of this legal? Not really. Can it
be enforced? The answer to that lies to a successful Appeal by
Walmart who's only argument was, "We are too big to Sue".



--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

[︰ones]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:28:34 -0500, in alt.war.vietnam Dave Head
<rall...@att.net> wrote:

>Yeah, they have to pass "right to work" in all 50 states to be able to
>complete the "race to the bottom" to get everyone that doesn't have a
>college education to work for 38 cents an hour, while the CEO and all
>the other executives rake in millions.

Well, the alternative is to pay everyone union wages whether or not
they can even demonstrate basic literacy. The "CEO and all the other
executives" who rake in millions graduated from high school while the
guy without an education was cutting class, smokin' behind the gym.

The unions served a purpose once upon a time in history. Today, they
simply stifle competition and productivity. You can still form a
union... RTW just affirms my right not to participate if I choose not
to.

Jones

[Daryl]

In companies that really need unions, it reserves the right of
the company to terminate without cause, justification or anything
else. And to single out those that are or "Might" be pro union.
"We don't need you anymore" is justification enough these days
for termination.

In my union musician days, the better clubs trusted the union to
send the absolute best. The Members trusted the union to get
them the best jobs at the highest rate. It worked.

As for basic literacy, does that mean we should hire one
English/Spanish speaker and have the rest use the same Birth
Certificate to get licenses and not speak a word of English? Pay
them less, etc.. I worked for a company like that as a Warehouse
Manager. It's sickening to have to wait until the "Real" Lupi
gets in off the route so he can tell all the other Lupis what I
wanted from them. But, you see, it was considered my failure,
not theirs. As far as I know, that particular company is still
doing it since the "Paperwork" for the workers seems to be in
order even though it's all spoofed.

When the various Transportation Unions were strong, this would
never happen as the Union would not let it happen. But it
benefits the bottom line (money) for the company to operate this
way.

[Andrew Chaplin]

Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote in news:kacem4$fc7$1...@dont-email.me:

> The worst Company in the US that really needs a Union is your
> local Walmart. Don't mention union while inside that building.
> It's taboo and workers that mention it even in passing are
> terminated, hours cut to zero, etc.. If you get hurt on the job
> (after their crappy medical help) you can bet your job isn't long
> for the world. All the reasons to actually HAVE a Union. But
> with Right To Work, they can cut your hours, reduce you to zero
> or near zero hours, give you the crappiest times that prevents
> you from taking that second job to make it up or prevents you
> from even applying for Partial Unemployment. If Walmart can't
> get a non union store, don't look for them to bring their store
> to YOUR location. Well, unless they can bribe your "Elected"
> Officials that is. Is most of this legal? Not really. Can it
> be enforced? The answer to that lies to a successful Appeal by
> Walmart who's only argument was, "We are too big to Sue".

Walmart will even close stores or repair shops where union campaigns are
successful, making them Pyrrhic victories. They have done this in
Jonquière and Gatineau, Quebec. The store in Jonquière is still closed and
unsold.

I won't buy a thing from those predatory bastards.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Dave Head]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 04:37:36 -0700, Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com>
wrote:

Yep, unions work. But unions are going away, and once the THREAT of
unions is gone, the 38 cents an hour thing will be a reality. That is
of course an exaggeration, but the $7 or $8 minimum wage, after future
inflation caused by all the money printing we're doing, will be the
equivalent of 38 cents and hour.

[Dave Head]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:04:38 -0600, ĄJones <jdf...@x.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:28:34 -0500, in alt.war.vietnam Dave Head
><rall...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, they have to pass "right to work" in all 50 states to be able to
>>complete the "race to the bottom" to get everyone that doesn't have a
>>college education to work for 38 cents an hour, while the CEO and all
>>the other executives rake in millions.
>
>Well, the alternative is to pay everyone union wages whether or not
>they can even demonstrate basic literacy. The "CEO and all the other
>executives" who rake in millions graduated from high school while the
>guy without an education was cutting class, smokin' behind the gym.

Doesn't matter. He didn't need a lot of education to be putting 5 lug
nuts on an axle after a wheel was hung there by someone else, and it
is further a bad thing for American society to have him working for 38
cents an hour, 'cuz then the rest of American society STILL ends up
paying for his kid's birth expenses at the hospital, and for him
getting sick or otherwise needing medical attention, and the food
stamp program, and yada yada yada, etc. ad naseum.

I think it far better to have a union that gets him a wage that allows
him to install those 5 lug nuts for a living, get a decent wage that
makes him self-sufficient AND able to have a fairly enjoyable life,
and keeps him the H off public assistance for anything.

>
>The unions served a purpose once upon a time in history. Today, they
>simply stifle competition and productivity.

And they stifle the management's desire to keep virtually ALL the
profits for themselves.

>You can still form a
>union... RTW just affirms my right not to participate if I choose not
>to.

And it ruins the power of unions.

Our progress toward a 3rd-world nation has just been accelerated by
the state of Michigan.

>
>Jones

[Daryl]

yes, I heard about that. They used that to scare the hell out of
employees in the US where that practice would get them before
more than one Federal Agencies with a nice hefty fine. I won't
set foot on any Walmart Property since 2010. I have first hand
knowledge of their poor treatment of employees. And my
experience was more watching how they treated MOST other
employees. When they started treating me the same way, I just
didn't bother coming in anymore and boycotted Walmart forever.

[Daryl]

in Colorado, we have a modified RTW law where if 75% or more vote
for the union, it becomes a closed shop. You should hear the
corporate and the extreme right celebrating Mich RTW. They are
pushing to change the Colorado Law to that. Shoot, it used to be
that it only took more than 50% to get a closed shop. Not
anymore. It's now pretty much impossible to get a union into
anywhere even with the 75%.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kacvi4$m78$1...@dont-email.me>,

Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

> On 12/13/2012 8:22 AM, Dave Head wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 04:37:36 -0700, Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/12/2012 11:28 PM, Dave Head wrote:

> >>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:59:11 -0600, ĄJones <jdf...@x.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 07:16:32 -0800, in alt.war.vietnam "Dr. Vincent
> >>>> Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Obama Condemns "Right-to-Work" Laws in Michigan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> During a visit to a Detroit-area auto plant Monday, President Obama
> >>>>> voiced his opposition to the *Republican* effort to pass anti-union
> >>>>> legislation.
> >>>>>

> >>>>> President Obama: "What we shouldnšt be doing is trying to take away

> >>>>> your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions. We

> >>>>> shouldnšt be doing that. These so-called right-to-work laws, they
> >>>>> donšt have to do with economics; they have everything to do with
> >>>>> politics. What theyšre really talking about is giving you the right

I thought that the Taft-Hartley law prohibited closes shops, but not
union shops.

[Daryl]

On 12/13/2012 10:35 AM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

>>>
>>
>> in Colorado, we have a modified RTW law where if 75% or more vote
>> for the union, it becomes a closed shop. You should hear the
>> corporate and the extreme right celebrating Mich RTW. They are
>> pushing to change the Colorado Law to that. Shoot, it used to be
>> that it only took more than 50% to get a closed shop. Not
>> anymore. It's now pretty much impossible to get a union into
>> anywhere even with the 75%.
>
> I thought that the Taft-Hartley law prohibited closes shops, but not
> union shops.

A closed shop is where if the workers unionize, all members must
become union members to work there and pay dues.

In fact, if you go by the T-H law, the right to work law in Mich
is illegal by federal law since it inhibits Unions.

[Andrew Swallow]

On 13/12/2012 11:37, Daryl wrote:
>If Walmart can't get a non
> union store, don't look for them to bring their store to YOUR location.
> Well, unless they can bribe your "Elected" Officials that is. Is most
> of this legal? Not really. Can it be enforced? The answer to that
> lies to a successful Appeal by Walmart who's only argument was, "We are
> too big to Sue".
>

Job for the monopolies people. Walmart can be split in three parts.
Just get a list of the branches and alternatively allocate them to firm
New A, firm New B and firm New C.

Andrew Swallow

[Daryl]

Wally Worlds defense has already been used. They are too big to
sue. In otherwords, they have already purchased the Justice,
Labor and Trade Feds.

[Grantland]

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:37:36 PM UTC+2, Daryl wrote:
> On 12/12/2012 11:28 PM, Dave Head wrote:

> Welcome to some of
>
... The worst part of it is, they can

>
> terminate without cause. Ever hear a statement of "We just don't
>
> need you". Corporations try very hard to get around any and all
>
> existing labor laws. Think of this, MacDonalds Franchise of many
>
> stores, didn't pay overtime, short changed hours worked, etc..
>
> It took the Labor Department YEARS to catch that one even with
>
> all the complaints. But if you complain, you are terminated. If
>
> you even mention UNION, you are terminated. "We just don't need
>
> you" The Labor Department fined them and are having them repay
>
> to workers (most of the workers no longer work for them) the
>
> money they cheated the workers out of.

...

>
the Corporation still try to find ways around fair wage
>
> and earnings.
>
>
>
> The worst Company in the US that really needs a Union is your
>
> local Walmart. Don't mention union while inside that building.
>
> It's taboo and workers that mention it even in passing are
>
> terminated, hours cut to zero, etc.. If you get hurt on the job
>
> (after their crappy medical help) you can bet your job isn't long
>
> for the world. All the reasons to actually HAVE a Union. But
>
> with Right To Work, they can cut your hours, reduce you to zero
>
> or near zero hours, give you the crappiest times that prevents
>
> you from taking that second job to make it up or prevents you
>
> from even applying for Partial Unemployment. If Walmart can't
>
> get a non union store, don't look for them to bring their store
>
> to YOUR location. Well, unless they can bribe your "Elected"
>
> Officials that is. Is most of this legal? Not really. Can it
>
> be enforced? The answer to that lies to a successful Appeal by
>
> Walmart who's only argument was, "We are too big to Sue".

> boo-hoo boo-hoo boo hoooo

So don't work for them then, you whiney little punk. Get a better job. Ugh! How I despise you disgusting lefty swine (plural). So much for Land of the Free.

Grantland

[︰ones]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 06:32:59 -0700, in alt.war.vietnam Daryl
<dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

>In companies that really need unions, it reserves the right of
>the company to terminate without cause, justification or anything
>else. And to single out those that are or "Might" be pro union.
> "We don't need you anymore" is justification enough these days
>for termination.
>
>In my union musician days, the better clubs trusted the union to
>send the absolute best. The Members trusted the union to get
>them the best jobs at the highest rate. It worked.
>
>As for basic literacy, does that mean we should hire one
>English/Spanish speaker and have the rest use the same Birth
>Certificate to get licenses and not speak a word of English? Pay
>them less, etc.. I worked for a company like that as a Warehouse
>Manager. It's sickening to have to wait until the "Real" Lupi
>gets in off the route so he can tell all the other Lupis what I
>wanted from them. But, you see, it was considered my failure,
>not theirs. As far as I know, that particular company is still
>doing it since the "Paperwork" for the workers seems to be in
>order even though it's all spoofed.
>
>When the various Transportation Unions were strong, this would
>never happen as the Union would not let it happen. But it
>benefits the bottom line (money) for the company to operate this
>way.

You have raised valid points. Unions have their good attributes...
*and* bad ones. Very little in our world is black and white; neither
are unions. In today's reality, I tend to believe that they have
outlived their usefulness; however, that's not tautological. For
example, I agree that Walmart needs a union.

On the other hand, companies tend to be highly mobile in today's
business world; they'll simply close the plant and move, leaving the
economic equivalent of a smoking crater in their wake because you
can't sell a house in the shadow of a shuttered automotive plant.
What did union membership do for the 18,500 or so workers at the
Hostess (et.al.) bakery? They're all sans job... period; their
factories are padlocked; they've moved to Bangladesh... bye. What did
the union do for them?

There was a day when the unions were effective; however, that day is
over... gone. In the '30s, '40s, and '50s, companies couldn't simply
move. We should have seen the trend in the '70s when we ended up with
tens of thousands of the most highly paid unemployed steel workers in
the world; you can roll steel just as well in Indonesia and cut costs
by 30%... and Detriot quietly switched over to Asian steel.

I don't *like* what we have; however, labor unions are the answer from
the early 1930s... it's an eighty-year-old answer to a 21st century
reality. We're going to have to come up with a different solution
because it's not a simple problem.

Jones

[︰ones]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:38:35 -0700, in alt.war.vietnam Daryl
<dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

>Wally Worlds defense has already been used. They are too big to
>sue. In otherwords, they have already purchased the Justice,
>Labor and Trade Feds.

Yes, money does argue eloquently; only a fool would suggest otherwise.

Recall that the labor movement began in the depression; prior to that,
the "robber barons" owned the government... after that, the unions
owned it. Labor unions have been a major political force for decades
and still are; however, I think they're rowing against the tide today

I don't see any good solution that'll fit on a bumper sticker;
however, we simply cannot go on voting ourselves more pay, more
benefits, and lower taxes. We're in competition with China and the
Asian rim countries; they'll have Twinkies back on our shelves RSN.
Heck, the damn things have a shelf life comparable to a rubber garden
hose; you can bet somebody, someplace is tooling up as we write about
it.

Jones

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kad5rt$qu$1...@dont-email.me>,

Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

> On 12/13/2012 10:35 AM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>
> >>>
> >>
> >> in Colorado, we have a modified RTW law where if 75% or more vote
> >> for the union, it becomes a closed shop. You should hear the
> >> corporate and the extreme right celebrating Mich RTW. They are
> >> pushing to change the Colorado Law to that. Shoot, it used to be
> >> that it only took more than 50% to get a closed shop. Not
> >> anymore. It's now pretty much impossible to get a union into
> >> anywhere even with the 75%.
> >
> > I thought that the Taft-Hartley law prohibited closes shops, but not
> > union shops.
>
> A closed shop is where if the workers unionize, all members must
> become union members to work there and pay dues.

No -- that is a "union shop". A closed shop is one where one must be a
union member in order to be hired, and is illegal.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kadldg$17k$3...@dont-email.me>,

Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

> On 12/13/2012 1:56 PM, Andrew Swallow wrote:
> > On 13/12/2012 11:37, Daryl wrote:
> >> If Walmart can't get a non
> >> union store, don't look for them to bring their store to YOUR
> >> location.
> >> Well, unless they can bribe your "Elected" Officials that is.
> >> Is most
> >> of this legal? Not really. Can it be enforced? The answer to
> >> that
> >> lies to a successful Appeal by Walmart who's only argument was,
> >> "We are
> >> too big to Sue".
> >>
> >
> >
> > Job for the monopolies people. Walmart can be split in three
> > parts. Just get a list of the branches and alternatively allocate
> > them to firm New A, firm New B and firm New C.
> >
> > Andrew Swallow
> >
>
> Wally Worlds defense has already been used. They are too big to
> sue. In otherwords, they have already purchased the Justice,
> Labor and Trade Feds.

I thought that the unions had already done that.

[Andrew Swallow]

On 13/12/2012 22:38, Daryl wrote:
> On 12/13/2012 1:56 PM, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>> On 13/12/2012 11:37, Daryl wrote:
>>> If Walmart can't get a non
>>> union store, don't look for them to bring their store to YOUR
>>> location.
>>> Well, unless they can bribe your "Elected" Officials that is.
>>> Is most
>>> of this legal? Not really. Can it be enforced? The answer to
>>> that
>>> lies to a successful Appeal by Walmart who's only argument was,
>>> "We are
>>> too big to Sue".
>>>
>>
>>
>> Job for the monopolies people. Walmart can be split in three
>> parts. Just get a list of the branches and alternatively allocate
>> them to firm New A, firm New B and firm New C.
>>
>> Andrew Swallow
>>
>
> Wally Worlds defense has already been used. They are too big to sue.
> In otherwords, they have already purchased the Justice, Labor and Trade
> Feds.
>

No one is that powerful, particularly a shop, they just think that they
are. An arrogant firm will make big mistakes.

A week after they are split in 3 their power has gone.

Andrew Swallow

[Daryl]

On 12/13/2012 10:10 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article <kad5rt$qu$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/13/2012 10:35 AM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> in Colorado, we have a modified RTW law where if 75% or more vote
>>>> for the union, it becomes a closed shop. You should hear the
>>>> corporate and the extreme right celebrating Mich RTW. They are
>>>> pushing to change the Colorado Law to that. Shoot, it used to be
>>>> that it only took more than 50% to get a closed shop. Not
>>>> anymore. It's now pretty much impossible to get a union into
>>>> anywhere even with the 75%.
>>>
>>> I thought that the Taft-Hartley law prohibited closes shops, but not
>>> union shops.
>>
>> A closed shop is where if the workers unionize, all members must
>> become union members to work there and pay dues.
>
> No -- that is a "union shop". A closed shop is one where one must be a
> union member in order to be hired, and is illegal.

That is exactly what I stated, isn't it. You are arguing over
semantics only. And, no, it's not illegal.

>
>>
>> In fact, if you go by the T-H law, the right to work law in Mich
>> is illegal by federal law since it inhibits Unions.
>>
>>
>>>

[Daryl]

You mean, food stuffs like Rolaids? When was the last time you
saw them on the shelf? Seems the export items from China has
very little QA as compared to what they sell their own citizens.

[Daryl]

Walley World has more money that all the unions combined.

[Daryl]

Let's see. Mentioning wanting a union is against the federal
laws. Shutting down a store because it was successful in voting
in a union is illegal by federal laws. Wally World does this all
the time.

Getting caught more than once using illegal workers would get a
normal business fined into non existence. Not Wally World.

Wally World claims to outsource their Workers Comp. Yet if you
look at the address for their Workers Comp, it's 2 doors down, in
the same building as the Wally World CEOs office. It's already
been established that Wally World does their own Workers Comp.
The Workers Comp policy isn't to help the worker back into the
work force but to get them off the payroll as quickly as
possible. Personal experience on that one.

Company Policy is to prevent workers from doing dangerous jobs
yet workers are instructed to do them all the time resulting in a
high degree of injuries. Policy is for you to refuse to do it
but if you do refuse as per Company Policy, your hours will be
cut drastically, your hours will become a roller coaster or they
will be cut to Zero. Personal experience on that one.

Jonesy says that the time for union is past. I don't believe it
is. But we need a complete revamp of the laws though and then
enforce the ones that are on the books. Including busting
companies for trying to influence government employees and
Congress Critters. In the 30s and 40s, that would amount to
locking up various personnel of corporations under the Rico Act.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kafcb6$jr3$1...@dont-email.me>,

Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

> On 12/13/2012 10:10 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > In article <kad5rt$qu$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/13/2012 10:35 AM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> in Colorado, we have a modified RTW law where if 75% or more vote
> >>>> for the union, it becomes a closed shop. You should hear the
> >>>> corporate and the extreme right celebrating Mich RTW. They are
> >>>> pushing to change the Colorado Law to that. Shoot, it used to be
> >>>> that it only took more than 50% to get a closed shop. Not
> >>>> anymore. It's now pretty much impossible to get a union into
> >>>> anywhere even with the 75%.
> >>>
> >>> I thought that the Taft-Hartley law prohibited closes shops, but not
> >>> union shops.
> >>
> >> A closed shop is where if the workers unionize, all members must
> >> become union members to work there and pay dues.
> >
> > No -- that is a "union shop". A closed shop is one where one must be a
> > union member in order to be hired, and is illegal.
>
> That is exactly what I stated, isn't it. You are arguing over
> semantics only. And, no, it's not illegal.

No, I'm not! You fail to distinguish between the two. Th operative
difference is that in the closed shop (illegal), union membership is
required prior to being employed, while in a union shop, one must join
the union *after* employment.

> >
> >>
> >> In fact, if you go by the T-H law, the right to work law in Mich
> >> is illegal by federal law since it inhibits Unions.

Under the Tenth Amendment, individual states can prohibit union shops.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kafcqv$jr3$4...@dont-email.me>,

If you want to look at union finances/political spending, go to:
http://www.unionfacts.com/cuf/

[Daryl]

Under the Taft Act, it cannot.

[Andrew Swallow]

Definitely needs splitting in 3.

Andrew Swallow

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

No _you're_ wrong, Orval !
An example: IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) is the
*parent* union. You join it and THEN and only THEN can you join a *union
shop* that is under it's auspices. I was offered a job at Black & McDonald
Electrical Contractors (Toronto, Canada), but first I had to go to union
headquarters and become a member of *IBEW Local 333* !

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Orval, old boy, if you really want *union facts*, go to the union's site and
NOT to a _right-wing Blog_ !

We've been through this before.

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

*Right To Work Legislation*, would prove YOUR statement to be a lie, Orval
(as per usual) !

cheers....Jeff

[Bert]

In news:kail83$vuo$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"

<bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:

> Orval, old boy, if you really want *union facts*, go to the union's
> site

Of course! They have no reason to obscure anything.

--
Bert be...@iphouse.com

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Bert wrote:
> In news:kail83$vuo$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"
> <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>> Orval, old boy, if you really want *union facts*, go to the union's
>> site
>
> Of course! They have no reason to obscure anything.

By all means Bert, do back up your assertion, if you can , that is !

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Dave Head wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:04:38 -0600, �Jones <jdf...@x.com> wrote:

>
>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 01:28:34 -0500, in alt.war.vietnam Dave Head
>> <rall...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, they have to pass "right to work" in all 50 states to be able
>>> to complete the "race to the bottom" to get everyone that doesn't
>>> have a college education to work for 38 cents an hour, while the
>>> CEO and all the other executives rake in millions.
>>

>> Well, the alternative is to pay everyone union wages whether or not
>> they can even demonstrate basic literacy. The "CEO and all the other
>> executives" who rake in millions graduated from high school while the
>> guy without an education was cutting class, smokin' behind the gym.
>
> Doesn't matter. He didn't need a lot of education to be putting 5 lug
> nuts on an axle after a wheel was hung there by someone else, and it
> is further a bad thing for American society to have him working for 38
> cents an hour, 'cuz then the rest of American society STILL ends up
> paying for his kid's birth expenses at the hospital, and for him
> getting sick or otherwise needing medical attention, and the food
> stamp program, and yada yada yada, etc. ad naseum.
>
> I think it far better to have a union that gets him a wage that allows
> him to install those 5 lug nuts for a living, get a decent wage that
> makes him self-sufficient AND able to have a fairly enjoyable life,
> and keeps him the H off public assistance for anything.
>>
>> The unions served a purpose once upon a time in history. Today, they
>> simply stifle competition and productivity.
>
> And they stifle the management's desire to keep virtually ALL the
> profits for themselves.
>
>> You can still form a
>> union... RTW just affirms my right not to participate if I choose not
>> to.
>
> And it ruins the power of unions.
>
> Our progress toward a 3rd-world nation has just been accelerated by
> the state of Michigan.

Amen.

cheers....Jeff

>> Jones

[Bert]

In news:kaimld$bor$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"

What? Are you saying that they DO have reason to obscure something?

Please elaborate!

--
be...@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Bert wrote:
> In news:kaimld$bor$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"
> <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>> Bert wrote:
>>> In news:kail83$vuo$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"
>>> <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Orval, old boy, if you really want *union facts*, go to the union's
>>>> site
>>>
>>> Of course! They have no reason to obscure anything.
>>
>> By all means Bert, do back up your assertion, if you can , that is !
>
> What? Are you saying that they DO have reason to obscure something?

Was that, supposed to be in English language, Bert ?

> Please elaborate!

Please _do_ elaborate and in English language, if you can, Bert !

cheers....Jeff

[Andrew Swallow]

On 15/12/2012 19:55, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>
> No _you're_ wrong, Orval !
> An example: IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) is the
> *parent* union. You join it and THEN and only THEN can you join a *union
> shop* that is under it's auspices. I was offered a job at Black & McDonald
> Electrical Contractors (Toronto, Canada), but first I had to go to union
> headquarters and become a member of *IBEW Local 333* !
>
> cheers....Jeff

Restricting closed shops to post-entry union membership is within the
power of the law. One side effect is that unions lose the power to
prevent you from joining.

Andrew Swallow

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kaikim$qnu$1...@dont-email.me>,

That may be legal in Canada, but not in the US.

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Andrew, I haven't got a clue what you are trying to say !


cheers....Jeff

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kail83$vuo$1...@dont-email.me>,

Sure -- go to the sites that the union wants you to see, not to those
with a critical eye.

[Andrew Swallow]

The union cannot stop non members getting a job but it can force
employees to join.

Andrew Swallow

[Bert]

In news:kaj1jg$bhu$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"

<bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:

> Was that, supposed to be in English language, Bert ?

Oh. Another funny Canadian.

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Bert wrote:
> In news:kaj1jg$bhu$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"
> <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>> Was that, supposed to be in English language, Bert ?
>
> Oh. Another funny Canadian.

Oh. Another stump stupid Republican.

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

"a critical eye" ?...are you seriously that stupid, Orval ? Would you got to
a Nazi supportive website and expect honest info regarding the *Holocaust* ?
Or is _that_ too difficult a question for you ?

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

If they wish to join a "closed shop" they join the union...AND ? What is
your point, Andrew ?
You're coming across as dim as Orval, right now.

cheers....Jeff


> Andrew Swallow

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Cite ?
If you're joining a union shop, you have to first join the union, you silly
bampot.

cheers....Jeff

[Bert]

In news:kalf9a$k3$1...@dont-email.me "Jeffrey Hamilton"

You're a Republican AND a Canadian?

Double threat stupidity!

[Daryl]

No Jeff, you have 30 days normally before the Union accepts you.
If they don't accept you then you are unemployed. During those
30 days, you are under the protection of the Union though. But
during those 30 days, the Company can discharge you without a
Union hiccup.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kalfpi$3kl$1...@dont-email.me>,

No, Dumkopf! If you join a union shop, you must join the union AFTER you
become employed! You have to be a member of the union prior to
employment at a closed shop, which is illegal in the US, under
Taft-Hartley.

Look up definitions before hitting your keyboard!

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kalfeg$1lv$1...@dont-email.me>,

No -- that would be the same as going to a union website to review
anything that might cast a shadow on their activities.

[Andrew Swallow]

No. I am describing how it works when done properly. You are the one
who is trying to cheat his way to wining by using insults.

Andrew Swallow

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

You're not making any sense at all, try again.

cheers....Jeff

> Andrew Swallow

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Daryl are you talking about Public or Private sector unions ?

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

I asked you for a cite, do you have one, yes or no ?

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

And you don't believe a Big Business sponsored web site isn't going to cast
a shadow on unions, really ?

cheers....Jeff

[Daryl]

You are now looking for a way out. Hate to break it to you but I
have been in more than a couple of unions. Mostly Teamsters but
also the Musicians Union. Both were extremely strong before the
advent of the RTW crap. Both guarded it's members with an iron
fist.

[Daryl]

Actually, the stronger more respected trade unions have you join
the union first and the Union decides what job you are sent out
to apply for. If the Union says you can do the job, you probably
can and many companies like to not waste their own time weeding
through the applicants.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kam3me$ks1$1...@dont-email.me>,

Look it up yourself! I am not going to do your work for you.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kam3r2$lf7$1...@dont-email.me>,

Have you ever tried looking at both sides and making up your own mind,
or do you wish to remain a tool of the union bosses?

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Wrong. I asked you a simple question that's all.

>Hate to break it to you but I
> have been in more than a couple of unions.

Have you, that's nice, I've been in three different unions.

>Mostly Teamsters but
> also the Musicians Union. Both were extremely strong before the
> advent of the RTW crap. Both guarded it's members with an iron
> fist.

My first union was the Musicians Union Toronto branch and back in 1970 you
had to join the union before you played _anywhere_ !

My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join it _BEFORE_ I started
day one at Black & McDonald Electrical Contractors.

My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public sector union and this
was when I worked at Toronto Hydro. I started work and was enrolled in the
Union on the same day, that's just the way it works in the public sector

So I do have lots of union experience and I do know what I'm talking about
and that is why I ask questions and not because I'm looking for a way out !

cheers....Jeff

[Andrew Swallow]

1. US laws are not universal.
2. Some private sector unions have been forced to accept post
employment enrolment. Some firms recruit school leavers so
pre-employment union membership is not appropriate.

Andrew Swallow

[Daryl]

You are still trying to dig your way out. Here is a bit of
advice, when you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging.

>
>> Hate to break it to you but I
>> have been in more than a couple of unions.
>
> Have you, that's nice, I've been in three different unions.

Are you aware (of course you are not) that most union members
aren't particularly up on what the union actually does?

>
>> Mostly Teamsters but
>> also the Musicians Union. Both were extremely strong before the
>> advent of the RTW crap. Both guarded it's members with an iron
>> fist.
>
> My first union was the Musicians Union Toronto branch and back in 1970 you
> had to join the union before you played _anywhere_ !

Since we have both been in a similar union (US Musicians Union),
I got paid by the Union, the Union set my worth, sent me out of
jobs ( I was a floater), gave me the song list, time to start,
etc.. Nothing was left up to me except to sound as good as they
expected me to or better if I wanted higher pay. The Club (we
only worked the higher end clubs) knew they were getting the best
music that their money could buy. Got some real horror stories
of Union Clubs that hired Non Union workers and Union Workers
that worked non union clubs. Not the prettiest picture on those.
But if you played the game, it was one of the best paying
unions in the world. Bad Musicians, Druggies and Drunks need not
apply.

>
> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join it _BEFORE_ I started
> day one at Black & McDonald Electrical Contractors.

That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I want to be
an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first have to join the
Union. If I have never worked as an Electrician, they have an
apprentice program to get you up to speed and Journeyman Status.
You have to be Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well
as keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions are
NOT trade unions and have a different way of operating.

>
> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public sector union and this
> was when I worked at Toronto Hydro. I started work and was enrolled in the
> Union on the same day, that's just the way it works in the public sector

Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No Freelancing, etc.

>
> So I do have lots of union experience and I do know what I'm talking about
> and that is why I ask questions and not because I'm looking for a way out !
>
> cheers....Jeff

Let's see for me, United Grain Millers, United Bottlers,
Teamsters, Musicians, and a few others I disremember. You have
led a very sheltered life. Stop digging.

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Exactly what I thought, Orval, you were just bullshitting then. It was YOUR
statement, fool, you back it up when challenged.

cheers.....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

So you actually believe a Big Business sponsered site is really going to
tell you the truth about trade unionism, their mortal enemies ?
BWAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah...

cheers....Jeff

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

I stand by what I posted Andrew, the Musicians Union and IBEW are American
based Unions, now they may well have changed the rules somewhat (in some
states) since I was a member, but I believe that to be probably because of
RTW legislation, sponsered by by greedy corporations and enacted by corrupt
politicians.

cheers....Jeff

> Andrew Swallow

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <kaofij$e3i$1...@dont-email.me>,

So, you actually believe that a union site is going to tell the truth
about business, their mortal enemies?

Do you actually believe that a union site is going to tell you what they
do with your union dues, and tell you how they buy influence with
politicians?

Talk about an ignoranus!

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

You've got egg on your face and now you're trying to blame it on me.

Stop wriggling and stop digging, Daryl, I explained myself perfectly
clearly.

And you STILL didn't answer my simple question !
So I'll repeat it for you: "Were you talking about Public or Private sector
unions ?"

>>> Hate to break it to you but I
>>> have been in more than a couple of unions.
>>
>> Have you, that's nice, I've been in three different unions.
>
> Are you aware (of course you are not) that most union members
> aren't particularly up on what the union actually does?

Huh ? WTF are you blathering on about now ?
I went to union meetings you dimwit !
Would that be like most people don't know what their politicians actually do

?

>>> Mostly Teamsters but
>>> also the Musicians Union. Both were extremely strong before the
>>> advent of the RTW crap. Both guarded it's members with an iron
>>> fist.
>>
>> My first union was the Musicians Union Toronto branch and back in
>> 1970 you had to join the union before you played _anywhere_ !
>
> Since we have both been in a similar union (US Musicians Union),
> I got paid by the Union, the Union set my worth, sent me out of
> jobs ( I was a floater), gave me the song list, time to start,
> etc.. Nothing was left up to me except to sound as good as they
> expected me to or better if I wanted higher pay. The Club (we
> only worked the higher end clubs) knew they were getting the best
> music that their money could buy. Got some real horror stories
> of Union Clubs that hired Non Union workers and Union Workers
> that worked non union clubs. Not the prettiest picture on those.
> But if you played the game, it was one of the best paying
> unions in the world. Bad Musicians, Druggies and Drunks need not
> apply.

I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by the club owner
and who also gave the union our dues for each gig.

>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join it _BEFORE_ I
>> started day one at Black & McDonald Electrical Contractors.
>
> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I want to be
> an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first have to join the
> Union. If I have never worked as an Electrician, they have an
> apprentice program to get you up to speed and Journeyman Status.
> You have to be Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well
> as keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions are
> NOT trade unions and have a different way of operating.

Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to thank me.

But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION, I was working for
Black & Mac.

>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public sector union and
>> this was when I worked at Toronto Hydro. I started work and was
>> enrolled in the Union on the same day, that's just the way it works
>> in the public sector
>
> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No Freelancing, etc.

Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of the day.
You bid on a job and if you have the senority, you will probably get it,

>> So I do have lots of union experience and I do know what I'm talking
>> about and that is why I ask questions and not because I'm looking
>> for a way out ! cheers....Jeff
>
> Let's see for me, United Grain Millers, United Bottlers,
> Teamsters, Musicians, and a few others I disremember.

You started off with two unions and now you've found some others, how
convenient.
In any event it still doesn't discount MY union experience, now, does it ?

>You have
> led a very sheltered life.

My life wasn't sheltered, not at all, Daryl, nine years as a union steward,
two years on the executive board, three years as a Respect At Work Advisor
and one year as a Workplace Healthy and Safert Advisor...that's some
shelter, Daryl.

>Stop digging.

As soon as you do stop excavating, I suggest you grab youself a nice big
ladder and come on up and visit me, Daryl.

cheers....Jeff

[Daryl]

On 12/17/2012 6:36 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/16/2012 9:42 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>> Daryl are you talking about Public or Private sector unions ?
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers....Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are now looking for a way out.
>>>
>>> Wrong. I asked you a simple question that's all.
>>
>> You are still trying to dig your way out. Here is a bit of
>> advice, when you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging.
>
> You've got egg on your face and now you're trying to blame it on me.
>
> Stop wriggling and stop digging, Daryl, I explained myself perfectly
> clearly.
>
> And you STILL didn't answer my simple question !
> So I'll repeat it for you: "Were you talking about Public or Private sector
> unions ?"

Already did

>
> >>> Hate to break it to you but I
>>>> have been in more than a couple of unions.
>>>
>>> Have you, that's nice, I've been in three different unions.
>>
>> Are you aware (of course you are not) that most union members
>> aren't particularly up on what the union actually does?
>
> Huh ? WTF are you blathering on about now ?
> I went to union meetings you dimwit !
> Would that be like most people don't know what their politicians actually do
> ?

Doesn't matter a bit attending. They tell you what they want you
to hear, not the law.

>
>>>> Mostly Teamsters but
>>>> also the Musicians Union. Both were extremely strong before the
>>>> advent of the RTW crap. Both guarded it's members with an iron
>>>> fist.
>>>
>>> My first union was the Musicians Union Toronto branch and back in
>>> 1970 you had to join the union before you played _anywhere_ !
>>
>> Since we have both been in a similar union (US Musicians Union),
>> I got paid by the Union, the Union set my worth, sent me out of
>> jobs ( I was a floater), gave me the song list, time to start,
>> etc.. Nothing was left up to me except to sound as good as they
>> expected me to or better if I wanted higher pay. The Club (we
>> only worked the higher end clubs) knew they were getting the best
>> music that their money could buy. Got some real horror stories
>> of Union Clubs that hired Non Union workers and Union Workers
>> that worked non union clubs. Not the prettiest picture on those.
>> But if you played the game, it was one of the best paying
>> unions in the world. Bad Musicians, Druggies and Drunks need not
>> apply.
>
> I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by the club owner
> and who also gave the union our dues for each gig.

I take it you were in a different level than I was. I worked the
cream jobs. You worked the Toilets. We took a 30 day "Vacation"
and worked union jobs in western Canada just out of fun. Fun it
wasn't. Toilets, that is what it was. We were so glad to get
back across the border and work the better clubs once again.
There is a reason that Canadian Performers, Entertainers, and
Musicians bail out of Canada once they get their chops honed.
The US has received some very talented talent out of Canada.

>
>>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join it _BEFORE_ I
>>> started day one at Black & McDonald Electrical Contractors.
>>
>> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I want to be
>> an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first have to join the
>> Union. If I have never worked as an Electrician, they have an
>> apprentice program to get you up to speed and Journeyman Status.
>> You have to be Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well
>> as keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions are
>> NOT trade unions and have a different way of operating.
>
> Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to thank me.

Conversing with you is having a negative affect, not a positive
one. Never thought I could actually get dumber debating.

>
> But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION, I was working for
> Black & Mac.
>
>>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public sector union and
>>> this was when I worked at Toronto Hydro. I started work and was
>>> enrolled in the Union on the same day, that's just the way it works
>>> in the public sector
>>
>> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No Freelancing, etc.
>
> Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of the day.
> You bid on a job and if you have the senority, you will probably get it,

Are you from Canada?

>
>>> So I do have lots of union experience and I do know what I'm talking
>>> about and that is why I ask questions and not because I'm looking
>>> for a way out ! cheers....Jeff
>>
>> Let's see for me, United Grain Millers, United Bottlers,
>> Teamsters, Musicians, and a few others I disremember.
>
> You started off with two unions and now you've found some others, how
> convenient.
> In any event it still doesn't discount MY union experience, now, does it ?

Just seeing how stupid you can really be. Please keep the trend
going. But I seem to be losing brain cells actually conversing
with you.

>
>> You have
>> led a very sheltered life.
>
> My life wasn't sheltered, not at all, Daryl, nine years as a union steward,
> two years on the executive board, three years as a Respect At Work Advisor
> and one year as a Workplace Healthy and Safert Advisor...that's some
> shelter, Daryl.
>
>> Stop digging.
>
> As soon as you do stop excavating, I suggest you grab youself a nice big
> ladder and come on up and visit me, Daryl.

I would but the ladder is for going up. I would need to borrow
that very big borer that you are using to visit you.

Have a nice day.

Daryl

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Daryl wrote:
> On 12/17/2012 6:36 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/16/2012 9:42 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daryl are you talking about Public or Private sector unions ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers....Jeff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are now looking for a way out.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong. I asked you a simple question that's all.
>>>
>>> You are still trying to dig your way out. Here is a bit of
>>> advice, when you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging.
>>
>> You've got egg on your face and now you're trying to blame it on me.
>>
>> Stop wriggling and stop digging, Daryl, I explained myself perfectly
>> clearly.
>>
>> And you STILL didn't answer my simple question !
>> So I'll repeat it for you: "Were you talking about Public or Private
>> sector unions ?"
>
> Already did

Your first response was: "You are now looking for a way out."

What kind of answer do you call that ? I call that a non-response, I
actually call it a wriggle.

>> >>> Hate to break it to you but I
>>>>> have been in more than a couple of unions.
>>>>
>>>> Have you, that's nice, I've been in three different unions.
>>>
>>> Are you aware (of course you are not) that most union members
>>> aren't particularly up on what the union actually does?
>>
>> Huh ? WTF are you blathering on about now ?
>> I went to union meetings you dimwit !
>> Would that be like most people don't know what their politicians
>> actually do ?
>
> Doesn't matter a bit attending.

So now that I've told you I attended union meetings, it now doesn't matter ?
Stop digging, you're making yoursel look silly.

>They tell you what they want you
> to hear, not the law.

Did you not understand when I told you I spent two years on the executive
board and nine years as a steward ?
What laws do you believe I didn't hear about ?

>>>>> Mostly Teamsters but
>>>>> also the Musicians Union. Both were extremely strong before the
>>>>> advent of the RTW crap. Both guarded it's members with an iron
>>>>> fist.
>>>>
>>>> My first union was the Musicians Union Toronto branch and back in
>>>> 1970 you had to join the union before you played _anywhere_ !
>>>
>>> Since we have both been in a similar union (US Musicians Union),
>>> I got paid by the Union, the Union set my worth, sent me out of
>>> jobs ( I was a floater), gave me the song list, time to start,
>>> etc.. Nothing was left up to me except to sound as good as they
>>> expected me to or better if I wanted higher pay. The Club (we
>>> only worked the higher end clubs) knew they were getting the best
>>> music that their money could buy. Got some real horror stories
>>> of Union Clubs that hired Non Union workers and Union Workers
>>> that worked non union clubs. Not the prettiest picture on those.
>>> But if you played the game, it was one of the best paying
>>> unions in the world. Bad Musicians, Druggies and Drunks need not
>>> apply.
>>
>> I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by the club
>> owner and who also gave the union our dues for each gig.
>
> I take it you were in a different level than I was.

Yes, I believe I was too, my band had a top ten Canadian single in 1975.
How did you guys do ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdepWciMuQ

>I worked the
> cream jobs. You worked the Toilets. We took a 30 day "Vacation"
> and worked union jobs in western Canada just out of fun. Fun it
> wasn't. Toilets, that is what it was.

Maybe if you weren't so shitty you wouldn't have been stuck in the western
Canada's toilets, oh well.

>We were so glad to get
> back across the border and work the better clubs once again.

I have a very strong feeling Canada was quite happy to see the back end of
you lot too !

> There is a reason that Canadian Performers, Entertainers, and
> Musicians bail out of Canada once they get their chops honed.

The USA is a bigger market, fool, of course it's a great draw for Canadian
Performers.

> The US has received some very talented talent out of Canada.

No need to thank us, for the most part Canadian musicians are happy to share
their music with Americans.

>>>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join it _BEFORE_ I
>>>> started day one at Black & McDonald Electrical Contractors.
>>>
>>> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I want to be
>>> an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first have to join the
>>> Union. If I have never worked as an Electrician, they have an
>>> apprentice program to get you up to speed and Journeyman Status.
>>> You have to be Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well
>>> as keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions are
>>> NOT trade unions and have a different way of operating.
>>
>> Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to thank me.
>
> Conversing with you is having a negative affect, not a positive
> one. Never thought I could actually get dumber debating.

You actually call _this_ debating ?

>> But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION, I was
>> working for Black & Mac.
>>
>>>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public sector union
>>>> and this was when I worked at Toronto Hydro. I started work and was
>>>> enrolled in the Union on the same day, that's just the way it works
>>>> in the public sector
>>>
>>> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No Freelancing, etc.
>>
>> Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of the day.
>> You bid on a job and if you have the senority, you will probably get
>> it,
>
> Are you from Canada?

Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1 Toronto
Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl.

>>>> So I do have lots of union experience and I do know what I'm
>>>> talking about and that is why I ask questions and not because I'm
>>>> looking for a way out ! cheers....Jeff
>>>
>>> Let's see for me, United Grain Millers, United Bottlers,
>>> Teamsters, Musicians, and a few others I disremember.
>>
>> You started off with two unions and now you've found some others, how
>> convenient.
>> In any event it still doesn't discount MY union experience, now,
>> does it ?
>
> Just seeing how stupid you can really be. Please keep the trend
> going. But I seem to be losing brain cells actually conversing
> with you.

Regarding your loss of brain cells, I too have noticed it and I believe it's
merely the natural progression of your genes life span.

>>> You have
>>> led a very sheltered life.
>>
>> My life wasn't sheltered, not at all, Daryl, nine years as a union
>> steward, two years on the executive board, three years as a Respect
>> At Work Advisor and one year as a Workplace Healthy and Safert
>> Advisor...that's some shelter, Daryl.
>>
>>> Stop digging.
>>
>> As soon as you do stop excavating, I suggest you grab youself a nice
>> big ladder and come on up and visit me, Daryl.
>
> I would but the ladder is for going up. I would need to borrow
> that very big borer that you are using to visit you.

I've only used it to get down to your depth, Daryl.

> Have a nice day.

Wipe the egg off your face, that's a good little man.

cheers...Jeff

> Daryl

[Daryl]

On 12/17/2012 7:49 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/17/2012 6:36 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:

>>>
>>> I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by
>>> the club owner and who also gave the union our dues for
>>> each gig.
>>
>> I take it you were in a different level than I was.
>
> Yes, I believe I was too, my band had a top ten Canadian
> single in 1975. How did you guys do ?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdepWciMuQ

I doubt it was in anyones top ten. It sounds like a cheap
imitation of the Archies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MiQzAo6Cp8

>
>> I worked the cream jobs. You worked the Toilets. We took a
>> 30 day "Vacation" and worked union jobs in western Canada
>> just out of fun. Fun it wasn't. Toilets, that is what it
>> was.
>
> Maybe if you weren't so shitty you wouldn't have been stuck in
> the western Canada's toilets, oh well.

Let's see, we did warmups for stars, backed a few stars, did
session work. All of us majored or minored in Music. We could
listen to a song once and replay it exactly like the original
band. Came in handy for backing up others. And we worked like
dogs with very few breaks. Toilets don't have Stars play for
them, they can't afford them and NO Star will EVER play in a
toilet anyway. Your band was a toilet band with potential. But
a toilet band none the less.

>
>> We were so glad to get back across the border and work the
>> better clubs once again.
>
> I have a very strong feeling Canada was quite happy to see the
> back end of you lot too !

Groups like yours certainly was. When we did that short stint in
Canada, we raised the talent level of the US and Canada at the
same time (just kidding to real decent Canadian working
Musicians, couldn't pass up doing an old joke)

>
>> There is a reason that Canadian Performers, Entertainers,
>> and Musicians bail out of Canada once they get their chops
>> honed.
>
> The USA is a bigger market, fool, of course it's a great draw
> for Canadian Performers.

Yes, not fewer toilets but more 1st class places to perform in.

>
>> The US has received some very talented talent out of
>> Canada.
>
> No need to thank us, for the most part Canadian musicians are
> happy to share their music with Americans.

You want to share a poor version of the Archies with the US? No
thanks.

>
>>>>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join
>>>>> it _BEFORE_ I started day one at Black & McDonald
>>>>> Electrical Contractors.
>>>>
>>>> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I
>>>> want to be an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first
>>>> have to join the Union. If I have never worked as an
>>>> Electrician, they have an apprentice program to get you
>>>> up to speed and Journeyman Status. You have to be
>>>> Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well as
>>>> keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions
>>>> are NOT trade unions and have a different way of
>>>> operating.
>>>
>>> Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to
>>> thank me.
>>
>> Conversing with you is having a negative affect, not a
>> positive one. Never thought I could actually get dumber
>> debating.
>
> You actually call _this_ debating ?

It would be if you were capable of debating.

>
>>> But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION,
>>> I was working for Black & Mac.
>>>
>>>>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public
>>>>> sector union and this was when I worked at Toronto
>>>>> Hydro. I started work and was enrolled in the Union on
>>>>> the same day, that's just the way it works in the
>>>>> public sector
>>>>
>>>> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No
>>>> Freelancing, etc.
>>>
>>> Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of
>>> the day. You bid on a job and if you have the senority,
>>> you will probably get it,
>>
>> Are you from Canada?
>
> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl.

I picked up you were a member of a smaller market. Newflash, the
laws are very different in the US. Because of the Taft Act, if
Walmart had even attempted to close stores and influenced works
like that, they would be selling their wares on street corners.
The only thing Walmart could do in the US was use that as a scare
tactic.

--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.

ed

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

The UNION site is NOT discussing big business politics, you stupid TWAT !

> Do you actually believe that a union site is going to tell you what
> they do with your union dues, and tell you how they buy influence with
> politicians?

Tell me ignoranus[sic] would you use The Muslim Brotherhood, as a source of
reference for ISRAEL ?
No ? Why not ? Because it's excately the same as using the Republicans/Tea
Baggers/Birthers as a source for "trade-unionism" !

> Talk about an ignoranus!

I gave you the site for UAW before, have you been able to disprove it's
claims ? No ! No, You have not, now why not ?

Get your head out of your arse, you stump-stupid Republican !
It's people like YOU ORVAL that are the reason why your country is such a
phuckin' mess !

cheers....Jeff

[Shawn Wilson]

On Dec 17, 10:04 pm, Daryl <dh...@nospami70west3.com> wrote:

> I picked up you were a member of a smaller market.  Newflash, the
> laws are very different in the US.  Because of the Taft Act, if
> Walmart had even attempted to close stores and influenced works
> like that, they would be selling their wares on street corners.
> The only thing Walmart could do in the US was use that as a scare
> tactic.

Uh, Darryl? There is no law whatsoever preventing Wal-Mart from
closing any store, any time, for any reason. They cannot fire
individuals for union membership, but if a store votes union they are
perfectly free to close the store for that reason and fire *everyone*.

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Daryl wrote:
> On 12/17/2012 7:49 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2012 6:36 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by
>>>> the club owner and who also gave the union our dues for
>>>> each gig.
>>>
>>> I take it you were in a different level than I was.
>>
>> Yes, I believe I was too, my band had a top ten Canadian
>> single in 1975. How did you guys do ?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdepWciMuQ
>
> I doubt it was in anyones top ten. It sounds like a cheap
> imitation of the Archies.

You doubt a lot of stuff, but the again reality seldom seems to enters your
world.

You doubt all kinds of stuff, Daryl, especially when you've been proven
wrong, yet again !

You could easily look it up and you could easily find out for yourself.

It's played every Saturday on CHUM 1050 AM (Toronto) and 1150 CKOC AM
(Hamilton). every Saturday, Daryl.

Now show ME your credentials little man !

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MiQzAo6Cp8

Fabulous you instantly managed to prove that YOU are also tone deaf, Daryl,
now why aren't I suprised ?

>>> I worked the cream jobs. You worked the Toilets. We took a
>>> 30 day "Vacation" and worked union jobs in western Canada
>>> just out of fun. Fun it wasn't. Toilets, that is what it
>>> was.
>>
>> Maybe if you weren't so shitty you wouldn't have been stuck in
>> the western Canada's toilets, oh well.
>
> Let's see, we did warmups for stars, backed a few stars, did
> session work. All of us majored or minored in Music. We could
> listen to a song once and replay it exactly like the original
> band.

Oh so YOU were all SUPERSTARS then, well, it should be as simple as shit to
supply some proof, LIBERACE !
There's no phuckin' time like the present, Daryl, produce or phuckcough !

>Came in handy for backing up others. And we worked like
dogs with very few breaks.

Breaks and set lenghths were pretty well standard, I can't imagine why yours
would have been any different.
But then again, everything about you is just a little bit special, isn't it
Daryl ?

Toilets don't have Stars play for
> them, they can't afford them and NO Star will EVER play in a
> toilet anyway.

>
Your band was a toilet band with potential. But
> a toilet band none the less.

You are a jealous little piece of drivel, aren't you, Daryl ?

I've got 45 rpms records and an album released by CBS Canada, what you got,
SUPERSTAR ?

>>> We were so glad to get back across the border and work the
>>> better clubs once again.
>>
>> I have a very strong feeling Canada was quite happy to see the
>> back end of you lot too !
>
> Groups like yours certainly was. When we did that short stint in
> Canada, we raised the talent level of the US and Canada at the
> same time (just kidding to real decent Canadian working
> Musicians, couldn't pass up doing an old joke)

Oh by playing in western Canadian toilets, do you mean, Daryl ?

Yes, I dare say,getting you idiot Americans to play in "western Canadian
toilets" was indeed, an old joke, but you stupid phuckers kept falling for
it. We Canadians were too smart...oh well.

>>>
>> There is a reason that Canadian Performers, Entertainers,
>> and Musicians bail out of Canada once they get their chops
>> honed.
>>>
>> The USA is a bigger market, fool, of course it's a great draw
>> for Canadian Performers.
>
> Yes, not fewer toilets but more 1st class places to perform in.

What ?
If your management booked YOU into Western Canadian toilets, then I guess
that's all they believed that you wre capable of playing, SUPERSTAR !

>>> The US has received some very talented talent out of
>>> Canada.
>>
>> No need to thank us, for the most part Canadian musicians are
>> happy to share their music with Americans.
>
> You want to share a poor version of the Archies with the US? No
> thanks.

Do produce YOUR recordings, little man. Please do.

>>
>>>>>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join
>>>>>> it _BEFORE_ I started day one at Black & McDonald
>>>>>> Electrical Contractors.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I
>>>>> want to be an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first
>>>>> have to join the Union. If I have never worked as an
>>>>> Electrician, they have an apprentice program to get you
>>>>> up to speed and Journeyman Status. You have to be
>>>>> Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well as
>>>>> keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions
>>>>> are NOT trade unions and have a different way of
>>>>> operating.
>>>>
>>>> Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to
>>>> thank me.
>>>
>>> Conversing with you is having a negative affect, not a
>>> positive one. Never thought I could actually get dumber
>>> debating.
>>
>> You actually call _this_ debating ?
>
> It would be if you were capable of debating.

Well YOU certainly aren't, you're a brain-damaged tosser, Daryl !

>>>> But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION,
>>>> I was working for Black & Mac.
>>>>
>>>>>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public
>>>>>> sector union and this was when I worked at Toronto
>>>>>> Hydro. I started work and was enrolled in the Union on
>>>>>> the same day, that's just the way it works in the
>>>>>> public sector
>>>>>
>>>>> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No
>>>>> Freelancing, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of
>>>> the day. You bid on a job and if you have the senority,
>>>> you will probably get it,
>>>
>>> Are you from Canada?
>>
>> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
>> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl.
>
> I picked up you were a member of a smaller market.

After you deleted the following do you mean ?

"> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl."

3 + million is not that small a market, you bloody ignoramus.

>
Newflash, the
laws are very different in the US. Because of the Taft Act, if
Walmart had even attempted to close stores and influenced works
like that, they would be selling their wares on street corners.
The only thing Walmart could do in the US was use that as a scare
tactic.
>

Newsflash, you know shite about tradeunionism, I wasn't trying to pick a
fight, you silly tosser, but you're too stupid to recognize when some one is
asking you a simple question and YOU immediately go on the attack , instead
!

[Daryl]

the Taft Act prohibits that behavior.

[Daryl]

On 12/18/2012 6:41 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/17/2012 7:49 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 12/17/2012 6:36 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by
>>>>> the club owner and who also gave the union our dues for
>>>>> each gig.
>>>>
>>>> I take it you were in a different level than I was.
>>>
>>> Yes, I believe I was too, my band had a top ten Canadian
>>> single in 1975. How did you guys do ?
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdepWciMuQ
>>
>> I doubt it was in anyones top ten. It sounds like a cheap
>> imitation of the Archies.
>
> You doubt a lot of stuff, but the again reality seldom seems to enters your
> world.

You are assuming that YOUR reality is everyone elses reality.
Hey, I think you need a reality check.

>
> You doubt all kinds of stuff, Daryl, especially when you've been proven
> wrong, yet again !
>
> You could easily look it up and you could easily find out for yourself.
>
> It's played every Saturday on CHUM 1050 AM (Toronto) and 1150 CKOC AM
> (Hamilton). every Saturday, Daryl.
>
> Now show ME your credentials little man !

Wow, a local Radio Station. Really Spiffy. Is that what you
call , Making it?

>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MiQzAo6Cp8
>
> Fabulous you instantly managed to prove that YOU are also tone deaf, Daryl,
> now why aren't I suprised ?

Others notice the similarities. And the crudeness as compared to
the copied style.

>
>>>> I worked the cream jobs. You worked the Toilets. We took a
>>>> 30 day "Vacation" and worked union jobs in western Canada
>>>> just out of fun. Fun it wasn't. Toilets, that is what it
>>>> was.
>>>
>>> Maybe if you weren't so shitty you wouldn't have been stuck in
>>> the western Canada's toilets, oh well.
>>
>> Let's see, we did warmups for stars, backed a few stars, did
>> session work. All of us majored or minored in Music. We could
>> listen to a song once and replay it exactly like the original
>> band.
>
> Oh so YOU were all SUPERSTARS then, well, it should be as simple as shit to
> supply some proof, LIBERACE !
> There's no phuckin' time like the present, Daryl, produce or phuckcough !

Hate to break it to you but backup bands don't get to prove a
thing. We just took home a paycheck. Nothing more and nothing
less. As for session work, you will never see any of names on
the label.

>
>> Came in handy for backing up others. And we worked like
> dogs with very few breaks.
>
> Breaks and set lenghths were pretty well standard, I can't imagine why yours
> would have been any different.
> But then again, everything about you is just a little bit special, isn't it
> Daryl ?

And your cover song was a poor copy of a "Created" sound.

>
>
> Toilets don't have Stars play for
>> them, they can't afford them and NO Star will EVER play in a
>> toilet anyway.
>
>>
> Your band was a toilet band with potential. But
>> a toilet band none the less.
>
> You are a jealous little piece of drivel, aren't you, Daryl ?
>
> I've got 45 rpms records and an album released by CBS Canada, what you got,
> SUPERSTAR ?

Yah, right. You already stated that CBS turned you down. Lie more.

>
>
>>>> We were so glad to get back across the border and work the
>>>> better clubs once again.
>>>
>>> I have a very strong feeling Canada was quite happy to see the
>>> back end of you lot too !
>>
>> Groups like yours certainly was. When we did that short stint in
>> Canada, we raised the talent level of the US and Canada at the
>> same time (just kidding to real decent Canadian working
>> Musicians, couldn't pass up doing an old joke)
>
> Oh by playing in western Canadian toilets, do you mean, Daryl ?
>
> Yes, I dare say,getting you idiot Americans to play in "western Canadian
> toilets" was indeed, an old joke, but you stupid phuckers kept falling for
> it. We Canadians were too smart...oh well.

I hope you enjoy sending out all those apologies to each and
every Canadian that find you lumping yourself in with them an
extreme insult.

>
>>>>
>>> There is a reason that Canadian Performers, Entertainers,
>>> and Musicians bail out of Canada once they get their chops
>>> honed.
>>>>
>>> The USA is a bigger market, fool, of course it's a great draw
>>> for Canadian Performers.
>>
>> Yes, not fewer toilets but more 1st class places to perform in.
>
> What ?
> If your management booked YOU into Western Canadian toilets, then I guess
> that's all they believed that you wre capable of playing, SUPERSTAR !

Our booking agent was out of the States and didn't have a clue
about anything. We broke from him when we got back and went
freelance (still union members). We went back to working the
Nightclubs once again, not the bars.

>
>>>> The US has received some very talented talent out of
>>>> Canada.
>>>
>>> No need to thank us, for the most part Canadian musicians are
>>> happy to share their music with Americans.
>>
>> You want to share a poor version of the Archies with the US? No
>> thanks.
>
> Do produce YOUR recordings, little man. Please do.

Why? We are critiquing YOUR recording which is about up to par
with any Garage Band around.

>
>>>
>>>>>>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join
>>>>>>> it _BEFORE_ I started day one at Black & McDonald
>>>>>>> Electrical Contractors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I
>>>>>> want to be an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first
>>>>>> have to join the Union. If I have never worked as an
>>>>>> Electrician, they have an apprentice program to get you
>>>>>> up to speed and Journeyman Status. You have to be
>>>>>> Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well as
>>>>>> keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions
>>>>>> are NOT trade unions and have a different way of
>>>>>> operating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to
>>>>> thank me.
>>>>
>>>> Conversing with you is having a negative affect, not a
>>>> positive one. Never thought I could actually get dumber
>>>> debating.
>>>
>>> You actually call _this_ debating ?
>>
>> It would be if you were capable of debating.
>
> Well YOU certainly aren't, you're a brain-damaged tosser, Daryl !

I can always tell when a person has lost. They resort to name
calling. Thanks for playing. You can pick up your crappy
parting gift on your way out.

>
>>>>> But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION,
>>>>> I was working for Black & Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public
>>>>>>> sector union and this was when I worked at Toronto
>>>>>>> Hydro. I started work and was enrolled in the Union on
>>>>>>> the same day, that's just the way it works in the
>>>>>>> public sector
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No
>>>>>> Freelancing, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of
>>>>> the day. You bid on a job and if you have the senority,
>>>>> you will probably get it,
>>>>
>>>> Are you from Canada?
>>>
>>> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
>>> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl.
>>
>> I picked up you were a member of a smaller market.
>
> After you deleted the following do you mean ?
>
> "> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
>> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl."
>
> 3 + million is not that small a market, you bloody ignoramus.

Is that all? And the market you were in was much smaller. Not
all 3 mil were in the same market. No wonder you are so
arrogant. You have no idea the different levels of success in music.


I trimmed the rest because it's more of your arrogant ass
insulting showing that you lost.

Now, pick up that bag of dog poop on your way out. Have a nice day.

[Jeffrey Hamilton]

Daryl wrote:
> On 12/18/2012 6:41 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>>> On 12/17/2012 7:49 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>>>> Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 12/17/2012 6:36 PM, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was in a group, the union didn't pay me, we were paid by
>>>>>> the club owner and who also gave the union our dues for
>>>>>> each gig.
>>>>>
>>>>> I take it you were in a different level than I was.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I believe I was too, my band had a top ten Canadian
>>>> single in 1975. How did you guys do ?
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbdepWciMuQ
>>>
>>> I doubt it was in anyones top ten. It sounds like a cheap
>>> imitation of the Archies.
>>
>> You doubt a lot of stuff, but the again reality seldom seems to
>> enters your world.
>
> You are assuming that YOUR reality is everyone elses reality.
> Hey, I think you need a reality check.

Who is talking about everyone else, I'm talking about YOU and your lack of
reality !

>> You doubt all kinds of stuff, Daryl, especially when you've been
>> proven wrong, yet again !
>>
>> You could easily look it up and you could easily find out for
>> yourself. It's played every Saturday on CHUM 1050 AM (Toronto) and 1150
>> CKOC AM
>> (Hamilton). every Saturday, Daryl.
>>
>> Now show ME your credentials little man !
>
> Wow, a local Radio Station.

My oh my you really are a jealous little tosser aren't you ?
Toronto has a population of 3,00,000 +
Right next door is Hamilton with a population of 600,000 +

> Really Spiffy.

37 years after recording it, our single is still getting airtime, every
Saturday, in both of those
cities and probably many others too, yeah, I think that is pretty spiffy.
Can you say the same thing for your music, Daryl ?

>Is that what you call , Making it?

What do you have to show for your career as a musician, you jealous little
troll, toilet paper from some obscure bar in western Canada ? Is that what
you call making it ?...BWAHahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MiQzAo6Cp8
>>
>> Fabulous you instantly managed to prove that YOU are also tone deaf,
>> Daryl, now why aren't I suprised ?
>
> Others notice the similarities. And the crudeness as compared to
> the copied style.

Fine show everyone here your originality, you tone-deaf jealous little troll
?
Let's hear YOUR music, so that we can do a critique of it.

>>>>> I worked the cream jobs. You worked the Toilets. We took a
>>>>> 30 day "Vacation" and worked union jobs in western Canada
>>>>> just out of fun. Fun it wasn't. Toilets, that is what it
>>>>> was.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe if you weren't so shitty you wouldn't have been stuck in
>>>> the western Canada's toilets, oh well.
>>>
>>> Let's see, we did warmups for stars, backed a few stars, did
>>> session work. All of us majored or minored in Music. We could
>>> listen to a song once and replay it exactly like the original
>>> band.
>>
>> Oh so YOU were all SUPERSTARS then, well, it should be as simple as
>> shit to supply some proof, LIBERACE !
>> There's no phuckin' time like the present, Daryl, produce or
>> phuckcough !
>
> Hate to break it to you but backup bands don't get to prove a
> thing. We just took home a paycheck. Nothing more and nothing
> less. As for session work, you will never see any of names on
> the label.

Good session players always get recording credits, Daryl.
So much for you and your SUPERSTAR Western Canadian TOILET touring ensemble,
I suppose.

>>> Came in handy for backing up others. And we worked like
>> dogs with very few breaks.
>>
>> Breaks and set lenghths were pretty well standard, I can't imagine
>> why yours would have been any different.
>> But then again, everything about you is just a little bit special,
>> isn't it Daryl ?
>
> And your cover song was a poor copy of a "Created" sound.

And yet it was a top ten single in Canada and still gets airtime 37 years
later, you really are a jealous little tosser, aren't you, Daryl ?

>> Toilets don't have Stars play for
>>> them, they can't afford them and NO Star will EVER play in a
>>> toilet anyway.
>>
>>>
>> Your band was a toilet band with potential. But
>>> a toilet band none the less.
>>
>> You are a jealous little piece of drivel, aren't you, Daryl ?
>>
>> I've got 45 rpms records and an album released by CBS Canada, what
>> you got, SUPERSTAR ?
>
> Yah, right. You already stated that CBS turned you down. Lie more.

It _was_ CBS who signed us, you stupid twat !

>>>>> We were so glad to get back across the border and work the
>>>>> better clubs once again.
>>>>
>>>> I have a very strong feeling Canada was quite happy to see the
>>>> back end of you lot too !
>>>
>>> Groups like yours certainly was. When we did that short stint in
>>> Canada, we raised the talent level of the US and Canada at the
>>> same time (just kidding to real decent Canadian working
>>> Musicians, couldn't pass up doing an old joke)
>>
>> Oh by playing in western Canadian toilets, do you mean, Daryl ?
>>
>> Yes, I dare say,getting you idiot Americans to play in "western
>> Canadian toilets" was indeed, an old joke, but you stupid phuckers
>> kept falling for it. We Canadians were too smart...oh well.
>
> I hope you enjoy sending out all those apologies to each and
> every Canadian that find you lumping yourself in with them an
> extreme insult.

Hey, punk, it was YOU who referred to them as Western Canadian toilets !

>>>> There is a reason that Canadian Performers, Entertainers,
>>>> and Musicians bail out of Canada once they get their chops
>>>> honed.
>>>>>
>>>> The USA is a bigger market, fool, of course it's a great draw
>>>> for Canadian Performers.
>>>
>>> Yes, not fewer toilets but more 1st class places to perform in.
>>
>> What ?
>> If your management booked YOU into Western Canadian toilets, then I
>> guess that's all they believed that you wre capable of playing,
>> SUPERSTAR !
>
> Our booking agent was out of the States and didn't have a clue
> about anything. We broke from him when we got back and went
> freelance (still union members). We went back to working the
> Nightclubs once again, not the bars.

How nice and what was the title of your first single and on what label was
it and what was the name of your band ?

>>>>> The US has received some very talented talent out of
>>>>> Canada.
>>>>
>>>> No need to thank us, for the most part Canadian musicians are
>>>> happy to share their music with Americans.
>>>
>>> You want to share a poor version of the Archies with the US? No
>>> thanks.
>>
>> Do produce YOUR recordings, little man. Please do.
>
> Why? We are critiquing YOUR recording which is about up to par
> with any Garage Band around.

No by produce, Daryl, I mean produce them here, so that they can be listened
and compared too.

>>>>>>>> My second union was IBEW Local 333 and I had to join
>>>>>>>> it _BEFORE_ I started day one at Black & McDonald
>>>>>>>> Electrical Contractors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was a trade union. Not much has changed. If I
>>>>>>> want to be an Electrician working Union Jobs, I first
>>>>>>> have to join the Union. If I have never worked as an
>>>>>>> Electrician, they have an apprentice program to get you
>>>>>>> up to speed and Journeyman Status. You have to be
>>>>>>> Licensed and the Union gets you that way as well as
>>>>>>> keeps you working if the jobs are available. Most Unions
>>>>>>> are NOT trade unions and have a different way of
>>>>>>> operating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh so you are learning something then, good, no need to
>>>>>> thank me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Conversing with you is having a negative affect, not a
>>>>> positive one. Never thought I could actually get dumber
>>>>> debating.
>>>>
>>>> You actually call _this_ debating ?
>>>
>>> It would be if you were capable of debating.
>>
>> Well YOU certainly aren't, you're a brain-damaged tosser, Daryl !

> I can always tell when a person has lost. They resort to name
> calling. Thanks for playing. You can pick up your crappy
> parting gift on your way out.

Yeah sure, why don't you see if you can find your wits on you way out,
Daryl, it might be difficult though because they, like you, appear to be
quite scattered.

>>>>>> But remember this, I WAS NOT BEING SENT OUT BY THE UNION,
>>>>>> I was working for Black & Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My third and final union was CUPE Local 1, a public
>>>>>>>> sector union and this was when I worked at Toronto
>>>>>>>> Hydro. I started work and was enrolled in the Union on
>>>>>>>> the same day, that's just the way it works in the
>>>>>>>> public sector
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Civil Service works that way. No Licensing, No
>>>>>>> Freelancing, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quite right, a closed shop and senority, is the order of
>>>>>> the day. You bid on a job and if you have the senority,
>>>>>> you will probably get it,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you from Canada?
>>>>
>>>> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
>>>> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl.
>>>
>>> I picked up you were a member of a smaller market.
>>
>> After you deleted the following do you mean ?
>>
>> "> Toronto Musicians Union, IBEW Local 333 (Toronto) CUPE Local 1
>>> Toronto Hydro, I must say you are amazingly astute, Daryl."
>>
>> 3 + million is not that small a market, you bloody ignoramus.
>
> Is that all?

Toronto _is_ a large city, how stupid are you anyway, have we actually
plumbed it's depths yet ?

>And the market you were in was much smaller.

I was talking about the public and private sector unions CUPE and IBEW and
not THE Musician's union, you havering bampot!

>Not all 3 mil were in the same market.

WTF are you talking about now ?

>No wonder you are so
> arrogant. You have no idea the different levels of success in music.

You really are an ignorant little troll aren't you ? Music was not being
discussed there, phuck Daryl, can't you even follow a thread

> I trimmed the rest because it's more of your arrogant ass
> insulting showing that you lost.

You trimmed the rest because you had no counter, you started troilling and
you haven't finished yet.

> Now, pick up that bag of dog poop on your way out.

Clean up after yourself, arsewipe.

> Have a nice day.

You too, troll.

cheers....Jeff

[Dean Markley]

LOL, calm down Jeff before you have a stroke.

[Peter Stickney]

> LOL, calm down Jeff before you have a stroke.

I used to despair for the youth of the U.S., until
the magic of the internet allowed me to see the
thinking of the yoot (Mentally, if not physically)
of the other nations.

Now I despair for the youth of the planet.

(This is not a slap against my rational Canadian friends.
If I didn't know and love Canada, I wouldn't have married
one)


--
Pete Stickney
From the foothills of the Florida Alps

[Gernot Hassenpflug]

Peter Stickney <p_sti...@verizon.net> writes:

> Dean Markley wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:25:22 PM UTC-5, Jeffrey Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Get your head out of your arse, you stump-stupid Republican !
> >>
> >> It's people like YOU ORVAL that are the reason why your country is
> >> such a
> >>
> >> phuckin' mess !
>
> > LOL, calm down Jeff before you have a stroke.
>
> I used to despair for the youth of the U.S., until
> the magic of the internet allowed me to see the
> thinking of the yoot (Mentally, if not physically)
> of the other nations.
>
> Now I despair for the youth of the planet.

A few generations of politics in education....

They didn't teach me that in school, but luckily the internet came
along to help me out: if self-esteem as recognised as an effect rather
than a cause, as something that has to be earned, then a growth
mindset rather than a fixed-trait mindset (leading often to feelings
of entitlement, or alternatively risk-aversion) can be nurtured,
leading to healthy individuals who can put in effort into learning and
achieving goals, putting off gratification until later, and can deal
with failure.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Aunkai