Q: Weather recon WWI-WWII aircraft?
Morgan
Looking for information about aircraft used for gathering
data about marine weather and ocean winds prior to/during WWI and WWII.
Were aircraft used for this purpose? Balloons?
Purpose of inquiry: working on publication about current/future
weather&wind-data gathering via satellite; would like to include information
about historical efforts involving aircraft related to military/war activities.
Thanks in advance for any information!
Charles K. Scott
In article <reddog1.1...@cogent.net>
red...@cogent.net (Morgan) writes:
During WWI, there was little to no weather information gathered by
aircraft. Most information came from ships in the North Sea.
During WWII, much of the information for the Allies came from stations
on Iceland or ships at sea. The Germans sent four engined Focke Wulf
Couriers out beyond England to report the weather but it was a high
risk mission and eventually was untennable.
Corky Scott
Erik Shilling
In <4m866b$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Charles...@dartmouth.edu
(Charles K. Scott) writes:
>
>In article <reddog1.1...@cogent.net>
>red...@cogent.net (Morgan) writes:
>
>>
>>
>> Looking for information about aircraft used for gathering
>> data about marine weather and ocean winds prior to/during WWI and
WWII.
>>
>> Were aircraft used for this purpose? Balloons?
>>
>> Purpose of inquiry: working on publication about current/future
>> weather&wind-data gathering via satellite; would like to include
information
>> about historical efforts involving aircraft related to military/war
activities.
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any information!
>>
>> red...@cogent.net
>
report every hour. there were hundreds of ferry flight being made
every week, so both the weather on the north and south atlantic was
well covered.
Erik Shilling
eri...@ix.netcom.com
MetaJohn
In article <reddog1.1...@cogent.net>, red...@cogent.net (Morgan)
writes:
>Looking for information about aircraft used for gathering
>data about marine weather and ocean winds prior to/during WWI and WWII.
>
>Were aircraft used for this purpose? Balloons?
Don't know about Weather a/c, however I recall that the Germans
captured and used Spitzbergen Is. just for an advance weather station! I
remember seeing pix and reading about balloon borne instrument packages
and ground station readings, being important in setting the exact date for
the commencement of the attempted breakout to Antwerp which we call the
Battle of the Bulge (refs?). Try histories of the 1940 Norway campaign for
the initial occupation of Spitzbergen; try Bulge refs like "A Bridge too
Far" (the book not the movie) for info about that op w/respect to weather.
Weather was also crucial to Overlord, popularly called D-Day (though
it was just one of several hundred D-Days during WWII) so relevant
histories might reveal just how IKE got his weather reports.
("Our children are fodder for work and war: If we really thought they were
precious we'd have many fewer of them!" -- Anon)
meta...@aol.com aka John Barker, Alive @ NTC Great Lakes
Morgan
>During WWI, there was little to no weather information gathered by
>aircraft. Most information came from ships in the North Sea.
>During WWII, much of the information for the Allies came from stations
>on Iceland or ships at sea. The Germans sent four engined Focke Wulf
>Couriers out beyond England to report the weather but it was a high
>risk mission and eventually was untennable.
>Corky Scott
I cannot find a reference to the Courier. Found a 4-engine Focke Wulf Fw.200
Condor -- called the scourge of the Atlantic because it shadowed Allied
convoys and attacked when the opportunity was right. It operated from 1940-43
with high success. It seemed to be a converted passenger airliner. Do you have
any more information about the Courier?
Thanks
MetaJohn
Refs taken from the "West Pointer's Atlas of American Wars", Vol II., no
page nos - last section of the book:
Official Histories:
1. Office of the Chief of Military History. "The United States Army in
World War II" (mentions it is not complete in 1959 - should be by now!)
many volume work and ref: maps, charts, tables, an epoch in historical
writing. "The Signal Corps", 2 vols (a third in prep in 1959) might have
info/data related to weather. "The Transportation Corps" 3 vols. is also a
possible source.
2. Office of Air Force History. "The United States Air Force in World War
II". 7 vols. A terse, comprehensice account of Air Force policies, plans,
problems, and operations. Vol. VII "Men and Planes", 1958, contains
detailed descriptions of various US a/c.
3. Historical Branch, HQ USMC. "History of the U.S.M.C. Operations in
World War II". (incomplete in 1959)
4. Morison, Samuel Eliot. "History of United States Naval Operations in
World War II". (unfinished in 1959)
5. British source. "History of the Second World War: United Kingdom
Military Series". Many vols again.
6. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and India were all known to
be producing official histories in 1959.
7. Eisenhower, D. D. "Crusade in Europe", Doubleday & Co., 1948. IKE's own
detailed account of why and how. Weather was the date-setter for D-Day.
And wrecked the "Mulberry" harbor just afterwards.
8. Baxter, James P. "Scientists Against Time" LIttle, Brown & Co., 1946.
Details the Office of Scientific R&D and it's contibutions to the allied
victory. Probably mostly weapons but who knows!
9. Trefousse, Hans L. (ed) "What Happened at Pearl Harbor", Twayne
Publishers, 1958. A collection of basic documents pertaining to the
Japanese attack there. Rememer the weather on the North Pacific route
masked their advance, and they used the same tactic to approach Midway Is.
and attach Dutch Harbor, Alaska in mid-1942. They knew the weather
somehow! Ice floe stations? Fishing boats? Sea Planes?
These ^^^ are older books, but then they are closer to the era as well.
Hope they help.
In article <4m866b$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
Charles...@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
> The Germans sent four engined Focke Wulf Couriers out beyond
^^^^^^^^^^
>England to report the weather but it was a high risk mission and
>eventually was untennable.
In article <reddog1.2...@cogent.net>, red...@cogent.net (Morgan)
writes:
>I cannot find a reference to the Courier. Found a 4-engine Focke Wulf
Fw.200
>Condor -- called the scourge of the Atlantic because it shadowed Allied
>convoys and attacked when the opportunity was right. It operated from
1940-43
>with high success. It seemed to be a converted passenger airliner. Do you
>have any more information about the Courier?
Red-dog Morgan, he, Chas Scott, does mean FW 200 Condors.
Focke-Wulf types produced for or during WWII were:
FW44C Steiglitz [trainer] FW 190F-3 [fighter/bomber]
FW 56A-1 Sto"sser [trainer] FW 191B [med. bomber -- 3
prototypes only]
FW 58c Weihe [trainer/transport] FW 200C-3/U-4 Condor [marime recon
bomber]
FW 187A-0 Falke [twin-fighter] FW Ta 152B-5/R 11 [fighter/bomber]
FW 189 A-2 UHU [tac recon] FW Ta 152H-1 [High-alt fighter]
FW 190A-3 [fighter] FW Ta 154A-1 [two crew night
/all weather fighter]
FW 190D-9 [fighter/close support]
There were other variants, e.g. 17 different models of FW-190 are given in
this source!, and the FW-Ta-153 off-shoot of the ta-152 which was not
produced, but these were the main production marks. No 4-engine type other
than FW-200 types were produced. Only 263 (of 276 produced) were operated
by the Luftwaffe, which gave it a reputation, "the Scourge of the
Atlantic", all out of proportion to its numbers and the actual damage,
claimed above 90,000 tons of shipping from Aug-Sept 1940, it caused. Taken
out of the bomber role in 1944, it served as a transport, its original
design role, until the end of the war.
From "THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OFGERMAN MILITARY AIRCRAFT", by BryanPhilpott,
Crescent Books, cpyrt 1981 Bison Books, ISBN 0 517 330032
In article <4m8s4e$e...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
eri...@ix.netcom.com(Erik Shilling) writes:
>Every transport and every bomber flying across the oceans sent rweather
>report every hour. there were hundreds of ferry flight being made
>every week, so both the weather on the north and south atlantic was
>well covered.
Eric Shilling is essentially correct, however . . .
[IMHO] RE: North Atlantic. This was not an important source until
mid to late 1942 when the US began to send an ever-growing stream of
bomber, patrol, transport, and other long-range types across to England.
From 1939-early-1942 there wasn't as much travelling back and forth,
although the Canada-England [usu with stops in Greenland or Iceland] route
was used. There were not enough really long-range a/c around, and most of
those ran from bad weather or were grounded by it! The Brits had
seaplanes, e.g. Sunderland (Short) and lend-lease or boughten PBY
Catalinas, later joined by Liberator and Flying-Forts in the Maritime
Patrol role. Normally these were fully employed hunting U-Boats, striken
or missing ships, downed fliers, and on ocassion searching for surface
Kreigs-Marine Capital ships, e.g. BISMARK, or even Q-ships, e.g. ATLANTIS.
RE: South Atlantic. Not a source of weather for continental europe
except in remarkable circumstances! But the weather there was a factor for
U-Boats, German raiders (GRAF SPEE, EMDEN, etal) and the Allies. I don't
know what they did from 1939-1942 - maybe nothing they could do. After the
US entered the war and discovered that the U-Boat menace was no easy
problem, the US threw everything they could find at them: Dirigibles,
patrol bombers, patrol recon, bombers, seaplanes, and close in to shore
every short range type available. During Hurricane season a/c were at risk
and many were lost! The establishment of the hurricane-hunter mission
probably evolved during this era. Dirigibles could not operate in foul
weather, and they had to run from it, whether that meant to or away from
their bases! Most a/c of that era were in trouble in winds above a fresh
gale, in cloud, and near the strong vertical, up or down, winds of
thunderheads.
In article <4mct4p$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, meta...@aol.com (MetaJohn)
writes:
>Bulge refs like "A Bridge too Far" (the book not the movie)
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't know who this fellow is but he really should get his facts
straight! \ :^) He's got allied op "Market Garden" confused with
German op "Watch on the Rhine"! Weather reports were important to both,
but they went to different HQs! At least before they were intercepted
and/or decoded! Tut tut.
Michael Trout
> Charles...@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
>> The Germans sent four engined Focke Wulf Couriers out beyond
>>England to report the weather but it was a high risk mission and
>>eventually was untennable.
> In article <reddog1.2...@cogent.net>, red...@cogent.net (Morgan)
> writes:
>>I cannot find a reference to the Courier. Found a 4-engine Focke Wulf
>>Fw.200 Condor -- called the scourge of the Atlantic because it
>>shadowed Allied convoys and attacked when the opportunity was right.
>>It operated from 1940-43 with high success. It seemed to be a
>>converted passenger airliner. Do you have any more information
>>about the Courier?
The official name of the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 was the Condor,
regardless of its airliner or military role. However, the name
"Kurier" or "Courier" often turns up in contemporary accounts
of this plane (particularly Allied accounts). Kurier seems to
be an incorrect name that somehow caught on for a while.
Perhaps the fact that a few Fw 200s served for a while with the
Reichskurierstaffel special transport unit had something to do
with it.
--
################## cl...@freenet.carleton.ca ################
Michael D. Trout
New York State Talking Book and Braille Library
Albany, New York 12230
wer...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
[ mailed and posted ]
quoting cl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Trout) :
|
|>> The Germans sent four engined Focke Wulf Couriers out..
|> I cannot find a reference to the Courier. Found a 4-engine Focke Wulf
|> Fw.200 Condor -- called the scourge of the Atlantic....
|
| The official name of the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 was the Condor.
| "Kurier" or "Courier" often turns up in contemporary accounts of it.
| Kurier seems to be an incorrect name that somehow caught on for a while.
| ...a few Fw 200s served for a while with the Reichskurierstaffel special
| transport unit; perhaps that had something to do with it.
or it could be that, handwritten, Condor and Courier (Kondor/Kurier) is
easily confused (n is read as u, d is read as ri, o as e; even typed, this
is easily the case given the state of typewriters and carbon copies at the
time).
--
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