North Korea's military in a dire state - Report

[David E. Powell]

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/20130515.aspx#startofcomments

<http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/20130515.aspx#startofcomments>

Interesting reading especially on air force matters.

[Yeff]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:02:45 -0700 (PDT), David E. Powell wrote:

> <http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/20130515.aspx#startofcomments>
>
> Interesting reading especially on air force matters.

From the article:

Perhaps the most dangerous aircraft are 300 AN-2 single engine bi-plane
transports. A sturdy Russian aircraft which, although designed in the
1940s, was simple, rugged, popular, and remained in production until a
decade ago. Able to carry ten passengers, the North Korean AN-2s have
been seen practicing flying low and at night. Since each AN-2 can carry
ten soldiers, it is believed they are meant to deliver commandos into
South Korea early on in a war. Several thousand of these troops could
cause a lot of confusion as South Korea mobilized for war. But in the
last five years fuel shortages have meant few AN-2s have been flying.
That means the pilots are not really skilled enough to carry off a night
operation, especially flying low (to avoid radar) through the mountains
separating the two Koreas. Using AN-2s now would lead to a lot of them,
if not most of them, not making it. Then there are whatever surprises
South Korea and the U.S. have developed to counter this daring use of
AN-2s.

-----

I remember that was our thinking as far back as 1986-87 when I was
stationed at Osan AB, Korea. The AN-2s were stealthy when stealthy
wasn't cool.

I always wondered what North Korean commanders were thinking when
looking at their radar scopes during the TEAM SPIRIT exercises back
then. We had two scopes in the Surveillance & Warning Center I worked
in and, during TEAM SPIRIT 86, North Korea had two or three aircraft
showing while ROK airspace showed up as basically a green blob.

Sounds like, now, at least they can get some targe... aircraft airborne.

--

-Jeff B.
zoo...@fastmail.fm

"Excuse me.
I don't mean to impose,
but I am the Ocean."

~ The Salton Sea

[David E. Powell]

On May 20, 6:30 am, Yeff <zoo...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 21:02:45 -0700 (PDT), David E. Powell wrote:
> > <http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htwin/20130515.aspx#startofcomments>
>
> > Interesting reading especially on air force matters.
>
> From the article:
>
> Perhaps the most dangerous aircraft are 300 AN-2 single engine bi-plane
> transports. A sturdy Russian aircraft which, although designed in the
> 1940s, was simple, rugged, popular, and remained in production until a
> decade ago. Able to carry ten passengers, the North Korean AN-2s have
> been seen practicing flying low and at night. Since each AN-2 can carry
> ten soldiers, it is believed they are meant to deliver commandos into
> South Korea early on in a war. Several thousand of these troops could
> cause a lot of confusion  as South Korea mobilized for war. But in the
> last five years fuel shortages have meant few AN-2s have been flying.
> That means the pilots are not really skilled enough to carry off a night
> operation, especially flying low (to avoid radar) through the mountains
> separating the two Koreas. Using AN-2s now would lead to a lot of them,
> if not most of them, not making it. Then there are whatever surprises
> South Korea and the U.S. have developed to counter this daring use of
> AN-2s.
>
> -----
>
> I remember that was our thinking as far back as 1986-87 when I was
> stationed at Osan AB, Korea.

Thank you for your service over there Jeff.

 The AN-2s were stealthy when stealthy
> wasn't cool.

I heard that the US kept ground mounted 20mm Vulcans in service in
Korea after they were retired elsewhere. Those would be something to
go after a low flying plane, or parachutists, with. I wonder if gun
antiaircraft artillery is still big there? Even stuff like 50
calibers?

> I always wondered what North Korean commanders were thinking when
> looking at their radar scopes during the TEAM SPIRIT exercises back
> then.  We had two scopes in the Surveillance & Warning Center I worked
> in and, during TEAM SPIRIT 86, North Korea had two or three aircraft
> showing while ROK airspace showed up as basically a green blob.

Nicely done!

> Sounds like, now, at least they can get some targe... aircraft airborne.

True, I wonder how long they could stay airborne though. Unless they
hid the aircraft underground and were trusting in some WMD or other
thing to clear a window for them, it doesn't sound like their air
force would be too useful, and the US and ROK air forces would have a
strong opportunity to hit the North's ground forces.

[kirk....@gmail.com]

I was at Osan ten years earlier in the Fiends (36TFS, flying F-4Es) and while our primary mission was air defense against the Mig-21s that were the main NKAF fighters of the day, we also trained to engage AN-2s that were expected to sneak in at low altitude and try to land on the base to drop off NK commandos who would then use satchel charges to blow up anything they could - including us in our squadron building!

We practiced against the OV-10s of the 19th TASS, who were also based at Osan. They would be running around at low altitude at around 170 knots while GCI (Redtop?) would vector us around until we picked up a visual; our APQ-120s were pretty much useless down low.

We joined up on one smartass in a Bronco after an intercept, with our gear and flaps down to get slow enough, and as soon as we were on his wing he waved and pulled his throttles back to idle, laughing as we fell out of the sky before cleaning up and accelerating away, in burner of course...

Fun times.

Kirk

[kirk....@gmail.com]

As far as AAA weapons, I remember arriving at Kimpo (Seoul) in a 747 (in 1977) and the fist thing I saw in Korea was a bunch of quad-50's all around the civilian airport. That made an impression!

There were quad-50s and towed Vulcans in revetments all around Osan, as well.

As well as I-Hawk sites on many of the mountain tops. Manned by a bunch of bored, dope-smoking grunts...don't ask how I know ;^)

Kirk

[Yeff]

I read somewhere, can't remember where now, that there's a US Army
Patriot battery at Osan now. That's a serious up-tick in firepower from
when I was there.

I don't remember seeing any SAM sites but I do remember seeing ROK towed
triple-A around the base.

[miso]

They have a AN-2 at the Tonopah Test Range. They have used it (train?
test?) both night and day. Stealth? Well certainly not acoustic!


I* don't get too excited about analysis from the strategypage.